Can we stop with the slippery slope arguments

[anon5123]

All over this subforum, the most common response to any, ANY request for ANY change, no matter how small, is this idiotic slippery slope argument of:

"yeah then they'll add LFR and flying and heirlooms too! you just want to play retail at level 60!"

Please educate yourself: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

Is it impossible to make just one or two changes? If you change one thing, then EVERYTHING else *MUST* change, 100% guaranteed? The problem with retail was not changes themselves, rather, that Blizz changed too much and didn't know where to draw the line. Most, if not all vanilla players liked TBC, even though it had a shitload of changes from vanilla. So why is it such a massive sin to make any little change to vanilla?

No, adding in minor QoL features like AoE looting will not lead to "LFR, flying, heirlooms, instant 60" or any of that bullshit, and such minor QoL features will not affect the "feel" of the game or whatever other emotion-based argument you want to use. I dislike retail as much as the next vanilla fan, but there are plenty of GOOD changes that retail has made, that would be very useful in vanilla.

Furthermore, addons in vanilla already add a fuckton of QoL, yet you don't see anyone advocating that those are "not vanilla" or that they should be removed. Vanilla was full of addons, specifically because players weren't satisfied with the game's base offerings, and wanted to add things to improve it. Things like LazyPig automating tons of things, or EzDismount, which auto-dismounts you when you try to cast a spell, movable cast bars, better unit frames, chat modifications, easy dispel addons...players have been making their own QoL changes to the game ever since it released.

--------------

Point is, please come up with actual arguments for why a change is bad, instead of just plugging your ears and screaming "NOT VANILLA!" or "SLIPPERY SLOPE!".

[Diremagus]

It IS a slippery slope.

I for one think they should make changes. A lot of them. Vanilla by today's standards is kind of a shitty game. Make a few dozen QOL changes and it might have a chance.

[ReVnX]

Is it so difficult to understand that the people who started this want Vanilla exactly as it was in its day?

If you don't like that game, if you want to implement changes, legacy is NOT for you. I don't know what Blizzard is going to release as Classic though, as it is entirely up to them, but Legacy Vanilla = no changes

[anon5123]

Is it so difficult to understand that the people who started this want Vanilla exactly as it was in its day?

Is it so difficult to understand that not everyone shares your opinions?

If you don't like that game, if you want to implement changes, legacy is NOT for you.

Wanting to change something does not mean "not liking it"

Thinking that there is room for improvement does not mean "not liking it"

I could rant and rave and shitpost for hours about all the things I hate in vanilla, but it's still one of my favorite games.

Vanilla is not perfect. Stop acting like it is.

[voidillusion]

Is it so difficult to understand that not everyone shares your opinions?



Wanting to change something does not mean "not liking it"

Thinking that there is room for improvement does not mean "not liking it"

I could rant and rave and shitpost for hours about all the things I hate in vanilla, but it's still one of my favorite games.

Indeed it's a slipery slope, some would argue that arguments like "the game has room for improvements" are what lead the game to it's current state, so it's only natural that ppl don't take suggestions for changes lightly.

Also suggesting something like aoe looting, which is completly irrelevant and unnecessary given the pace of classic, doesnt help you case.

This said i do think there are some things that could be improved, examples that come to mind are a self cast modifier, or the ability to send several items at once by mail. This for me clearly isn't the case of aoe looting, which is pointless as i stated, nor xmog, like cmon you have 3 tiers in the game, what the hell do you really want transmog for?

[ReVnX]

Is it so difficult to understand that not everyone shares your opinions?



Wanting to change something does not mean "not liking it"

Thinking that there is room for improvement does not mean "not liking it"

I could rant and rave and shitpost for hours about all the things I hate in vanilla, but it's still one of my favorite games.

Vanilla is not perfect. Stop acting like it is.

I don't care if you don't share my opinion. I care that you can ruin the product we asked for so many years, so you can play 15 minutes and drop it.

Nobody is saying that Vanilla is perfect. But it is what people asked for. Indiscriminately making changes could change Vanilla into something the legacy community abhors. And remember they are the reason it's hapenning

[anon5123]

I don't care if you don't share my opinion. I care that you can ruin the product we asked for so many years, so you can play 15 minutes and drop it.

"I don't care if you don't share my opinion, but fuck you your opinion is wrong and bad and I hate it"



also I've been playing vanilla servers for roughly 3 years now

thanks for the insult though

Nobody is saying that Vanilla is perfect. But it is what people asked for.

Who are these "people" you keep mentioning?

Because the "people" around here are always discussing potential changes to be made.

Indiscriminately making changes could change Vanilla into something the legacy community abhors.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

[ReVnX]

"I don't care if you don't share my opinion, but fuck you your opinion is wrong and bad and I hate it"



also I've been playing vanilla servers for roughly 3 years now

thanks for the insult though



Who are these "people" you keep mentioning?

Because the "people" around here are always discussing potential changes to be made.



https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

Your opinion is not wrong nor bad, your opinion is that you want Classic+, so fight for it and see if you get enough support for Blizzard to hear you. But leave Classic as it is.

These people are the ones I talk about

[anon5123]

your opinion is that you want Classic+

And people like you seem to think that "Classic+" means "legion capped at level 60"

protip: making a couple of small QoL changes to vanilla will not make it "legion"

These people is the one I talk about

The petition doesn't mention anything about changes, just asking for legacy servers.

[Martymark]

First we will ban slippery slope arguments, and next thing you know, this forum will be LITERALLY HITLER!

[evogsr]

All over this subforum, the most common response to any, ANY request for ANY change, no matter how small, is this idiotic slippery slope argument of:



Please educate yourself: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

Is it impossible to make just one or two changes? If you change one thing, then EVERYTHING else *MUST* change, 100% guaranteed? The problem with retail was not changes themselves, rather, that Blizz changed too much and didn't know where to draw the line. Most, if not all vanilla players liked TBC, even though it had a shitload of changes from vanilla. So why is it such a massive sin to make any little change to vanilla?

No, adding in minor QoL features like AoE looting will not lead to "LFR, flying, heirlooms, instant 60" or any of that bullshit, and such minor QoL features will not affect the "feel" of the game or whatever other emotion-based argument you want to use. I dislike retail as much as the next vanilla fan, but there are plenty of GOOD changes that retail has made, that would be very useful in vanilla.

Furthermore, addons in vanilla already add a fuckton of QoL, yet you don't see anyone advocating that those are "not vanilla" or that they should be removed. Vanilla was full of addons, specifically because players weren't satisfied with the game's base offerings, and wanted to add things to improve it. Things like LazyPig automating tons of things, or EzDismount, which auto-dismounts you when you try to cast a spell, movable cast bars, better unit frames, chat modifications, easy dispel addons...players have been making their own QoL changes to the game ever since it released.

--------------

Point is, please come up with actual arguments for why a change is bad, instead of just plugging your ears and screaming "NOT VANILLA!" or "SLIPPERY SLOPE!".

The pretense of which your argument rests as to what slippery slope is or isn't, is exactly why you can be dishonest about it. Slippery slope doesn't mean because Change A happened irrefutably means that Change B will happen. It means the precedent has been set for Change B to happen.

It's sophistry to suggest that slippery slope is a logical fallacy in the pretense of what slippery slope actually is. It's not. Unless you're going to deny that change exists at all - in part because various people add input and thus change.

Going based well, on real life, but in the confines of WoW and Blizzard - slippery slope is very much a real thing. Or are you going to suggest that it was only at the behest of a "changing dev team and 13 years" as the only prominent indicators of why any changes were ever made in WoW and they had fuck all to do with conflicting player input?

[anon5123]

I'm not saying slippery slopes don't exist

I'm saying to stop crying "SLIPPERY SLOPE!!!!!" in response to literally any suggested change

Which is what happens all the time around here, as I explained in the OP.

Every single time:

A: What if we added ____ to vanilla?

B: Yeah, and then Blizzard will add LFD and LFR and flying mounts and heirlooms and transmog and purchasable level boosts and balance the classes, and oh look now it's just legion capped at level 60! Go play retail!!! NO CHANGES!!!!!!!

Go through some of the threads around here, you WILL find this kind of thing going on in literally every one of them that talks about potential changes.

[Armourboy]

It is a concern because even with a few changes you could end up with something that plays very differently. That's not to say it will, but it's possible, and many would rather just stay on the safe side of things and leave it alone.

I still think it's all a moot though. Blizzard has already stated they want it as close to original as possible with the understanding that a few things will be different because of the need to add it into the new infrastructure. This includes things like the report systems, and the help functions and battle.net integration. I think much more than that as far as changes go is probably a pipe dream, mainly because they won't want to waste the development time.

[Oftenwrongsoong]

There is no slope, there's not even anything slippery.

The WoW Classic discussion is ridiculously easy, here's the flow chart:

1. Was the "I WANT THIS" feature available in-game between 2004 and 2006 prior to the Burning Crusade pre-patch?
2. If yes, then it can be included either at launch or in a later patch. Discussion then turns to when it should be implemented and why (e.g., Should 1.12.1 talent tress be available at launch, or later on when other raids are patched in?).
3. If no, then it is out.

Enjoy WoW Classic.

[Deleted]

I imagine every single person who wants classic might want some form of change, the problem is that they are all different, so how do you pick which ones should be added and which ones should not? The easiest compromise is to not include any of them, delivering exactly what people have been begging for for literally years, classic as it was without any quality of life additions.

Look, it's really easy to add things later down the road, it's extremely difficult to remove them once they've been added, (flying mounts anyone?) so the best course of action is probably to deliver classic servers that provide a proper vanilla experience, and then listen to the feedback of the players who actually stick around and don't leave within a month or so.

[anon5123]

3. If no, then it is out.

Ah, another "REEE NO CHANGES" purist. Nice.

- - - Updated - - -

so how do you pick which ones should be added and which ones should not?

Polls.

You can't say "people don't want this change!" if a majority vote that they do want it.

Could even go so far as making it require 75%+ or more "yes", so that you don't have people crying that the 51% are screwing over the 49%.

[zetitup]

If there are addons to "fix" these QoL things, maybe keep them as addons so people who doesnt want that shit can play the classic we want?

[Goondicker]

I imagine every single person who wants classic might want some form of change, the problem is that they are all different, so how do you pick which ones should be added and which ones should not? The easiest compromise is to not include any of them, delivering exactly what people have been begging for for literally years, classic as it was without any quality of life additions.

Look, it's really easy to add things later down the road, it's extremely difficult to remove them once they've been added (flying mounts anyone?) so the best course of action is probably to deliver classic servers that provide a proper vanilla experience, and then listen to the feedback of the players who actually stick around and don't leave within a month or so.

This should be linked every time one of these threads pops up.

It's not so much "slippery slope" as it is a compromise. I personally would like a few changes to Classic, but I think the best thing for the game is not not include any of them.

[Deleted]

yes make some QOL changes.

Add DK, DH and Monk, and pallys on horde, shammys on ally.


tune dk,dh, so can level from 1.


heirlooms are a must. and LFR a must.

also add new content/gear tuned for level 60.

once you get to 60 you can go to outland, northrend, pandaria, argus etc. it just stays at 60 but item level gets better depending on what raid you do.

[Donald Hellscream]

People lack the mental capacity to think critically so they assume that one slight change will lead to all QoL changes under the sun being implemented.

Whether QoL changes should be there or not is another matter entirely, but coming up with random tinfoil hat bullshit the moment someone mentions QoL changes really is just thought termination at its finest.