Can we stop with the slippery slope arguments

[Jaylock]

Is it so difficult to understand that the people who started this want Vanilla exactly as it was in its day?

If you don't like that game, if you want to implement changes, legacy is NOT for you. I don't know what Blizzard is going to release as Classic though, as it is entirely up to them, but Legacy Vanilla = no changes

So have you polled all those who "started this"? Do you even know definitively who "started this?" I guarantee you that if you polled ALL players who played on vanilla private servers, you would get varying responses to what they wanted on a vanilla like server.

So please, stop with the idiotic argument that "the people who started this want it to be exactly as it was in its day." Because that is objectively false.

I played back in the "day" and I don't want it to be exactly 1:1 like it was. I want some QoL changes made available, at least by a toggle on / off.

[ManiaCCC]

Is it so difficult to understand that the people who started this want Vanilla exactly as it was in its day?

I am among these people, who were for Vanilla server for years, signed petition and voiced myself in every poll

And I want changes.. So..deal with it.

[hyphnos]

I don't care if you don't share my opinion. I care that you can ruin the product we asked for so many years, so you can play 15 minutes and drop it.

Nobody is saying that Vanilla is perfect. But it is what people asked for. Indiscriminately making changes could change Vanilla into something the legacy community abhors. And remember they are the reason it's hapenning

The community is going to hate Vanilla, with or without changes. Blizzard's only smart move is to release the relative shitfest that was Vanilla unaltered and then they can point to it's miserable failure when they fix it so people like you can't say it wasn't tried and rejected.

[Thage]

Gotta admit, I've reevaluated my take on this lately to 'launch a straight 1.12 realm, do progressive content rollouts to match the patch cycle from Vanilla, and limit QOL to obvious bug fixes to deliver a functional game, then 1-2 years down the line begin polling to see what, if any, Classic+-esque changes the players would like to see, be it Classic-style expansions (Outland, Emerald Dream, Caverns of Time, etc.) with new raids, new dungeons, new open-world content done under a Vanilla-esque design philosophy, further class nerfs/buffs that don't require a notable reworking of how the class plays, implementing the choice for new/old character model toggles and new/old combat sound effects/voiceovers, etc.' But definitely push out a straight-up rebuild of Classic to test the waters and see how successful a retail Classic would end up being, to see if it would be worth keeping a dev team assigned to Classic or just keep a maintenance crew and GMs available.

[anon5123]

yes make some QOL changes.

Add DK, DH and Monk, and pallys on horde, shammys on ally.


tune dk,dh, so can level from 1.


heirlooms are a must. and LFR a must.

also add new content/gear tuned for level 60.

once you get to 60 you can go to outland, northrend, pandaria, argus etc. it just stays at 60 but item level gets better depending on what raid you do.

Thanks for providing such a lovely example of the point I'm trying to make.

[rasako]

"I don't care if you don't share my opinion, but fuck you your opinion is wrong and bad and I hate it"



also I've been playing vanilla servers for roughly 3 years now

thanks for the insult though



Who are these "people" you keep mentioning?

Because the "people" around here are always discussing potential changes to be made.



https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

troll thread is troll thread. Ion already said no changes were happening. all you fucking retards need to stop shitting all over eachother.

[NicoWolf]

Ah, another "REEE NO CHANGES" purist. Nice.

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Polls.

You can't say "people don't want this change!" if a majority vote that they do want it.

Could even go so far as making it require 75%+ or more "yes", so that you don't have people crying that the 51% are screwing over the 49%.

A poll requires a pool of informed and experienced individuals to express their perceptions of how those changes work. Applying this WoW would mean PTR testing would take substantially longer, not to mention taking time to sift through quantifiable objections to changes as opposed to purists who simply want no changes and trolls. Content updates would take significantly more time to roll out because the devs would have to respond to every poll of data in favor or against a change.

And personally, I think that's probably the best way for the game to grow and evolve; allow the players to dictate changes, within reason. I doubt they'd ever do it because you'd have either extensive content droughts or rushed filler patches that add little or no value to the game itself while we wait for something new to come along, i.e. Timeless Isle.

[evogsr]

Too bad on this sub forum, people did NOT STOP at asking to change just 1 or 2 things. We are now easily at 10 or 20. And that is on top of you guys not even having an agreement what patch you want ^^

So don't piss on the slippery slope people when they only point out what is happening. Hell, some guys even asked of CRZ and LFG for Classic servers. At this point I think only flying has not been asked for

Nope, even flying mounts have been asked for. Maybe not as a topic on this sub forum, but it made it to the Blizzard poll which meant someone posed the question.

[anon5123]

Too bad on this sub forum, people did NOT STOP at asking to change just 1 or 2 things. We are now easily at 10 or 20. And that is on top of you guys not even having an agreement what patch you want ^^

So don't piss on the slippery slope people when they only point out what is happening. Hell, some guys even asked of CRZ and LFG for Classic servers. At this point I think only flying has not been asked for

Yeah, because lumping everyone together into one big "wants to change something" group is totally not a fallacious argument or anything

That's like lumping together KKK and PETA based on "they both hate something".

[Thimagryn]

I don't care if you don't share my opinion. I care that you can ruin the product we asked for so many years, so you can play 15 minutes and drop it.

Nobody is saying that Vanilla is perfect. But it is what people asked for. Indiscriminately making changes could change Vanilla into something the legacy community abhors. And remember they are the reason it's hapenning

The legacy community that played on servers like Nost that provided all the QoL features of patch 1.12? QoL is a part of vanilla if you consider all the changes that happened during its 2 ur run. Most of what people back as Vanilla is practically TBC features.

[Deleted]

Is it impossible to make just one or two changes?

...

Point is, please come up with actual arguments for why a change is bad, instead of just plugging your ears and screaming "NOT VANILLA!" or "SLIPPERY SLOPE!".

Only if you come up with actual list of one or two changes.
But it's not one or two. Just scan the threads and count how many changes you can find in.. .let's say past 5 pages in this forum alone.
You'll find everything some a tiny change of autolooting corpses, to addition of transmorg, LFR, Vanilla Mythic+, zone scaling and plenty of other features.

So. Tell me. Are you the one who decides which on of those gets implemented? Because all of them have their own champions. Should they check with you for approval before posting here?

Then sure, let's see the top 2 changes and let's talk
But until then - retail is that way --->

[stomination]

Is it so difficult to understand that the people who started this want Vanilla exactly as it was in its day?

As soon as you realize it cant be. Not the same people. Not the same guilds. Not the same decade. Not the same computers. Not the same shit we did back then.

Its easier now that the internet has all kinds of information about it and the fact we are all no longer noobs to the game.

[ManiaCCC]

Whatever man..fact is everybody and their mom want something changed. Unless you can point with authority to they guys we should only listen to, there is somebody making a thread EVERY day about "I only want one thing changed". So who has the authority?

Who has the authority? Blizzard of course. We are just "voices" from community. But why purist want silence the other part of the community? Just accept that people has every right to say, what they would love to see in Classic, feel free to disagree but let the discussion continue.

[Molis]

You are right lets stop with the slippery slope arguements.

You get Vanilla the way it was or you get nothing.

No Frankenstein Classic and no QOL improvements

All you playing private servers get Vanilla as shitty as it was

[Armourboy]

Ultimately nothing probably changes for the exact reason someone mentioned earlier, how does Blizzard decide?

I want one thing, someone else another, and third, 4th and 5th others. So if you are Blizzard where do you reach the point where you can no longer add one thing before you end up playing a version of the game that has never existed and completely defeats the purpose of a classic server to begin with?

That is why almost nothing will be changed outside of report functions, Customer support and battle.net infrastructure.

[judgementofantonidas]

All over this subforum, the most common response to any, ANY request for ANY change, no matter how small, is this idiotic slippery slope argument of:



Please educate yourself: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

Is it impossible to make just one or two changes? If you change one thing, then EVERYTHING else *MUST* change, 100% guaranteed? The problem with retail was not changes themselves, rather, that Blizz changed too much and didn't know where to draw the line. Most, if not all vanilla players liked TBC, even though it had a shitload of changes from vanilla. So why is it such a massive sin to make any little change to vanilla?

No, adding in minor QoL features like AoE looting will not lead to "LFR, flying, heirlooms, instant 60" or any of that bullshit, and such minor QoL features will not affect the "feel" of the game or whatever other emotion-based argument you want to use. I dislike retail as much as the next vanilla fan, but there are plenty of GOOD changes that retail has made, that would be very useful in vanilla.

Furthermore, addons in vanilla already add a fuckton of QoL, yet you don't see anyone advocating that those are "not vanilla" or that they should be removed. Vanilla was full of addons, specifically because players weren't satisfied with the game's base offerings, and wanted to add things to improve it. Things like LazyPig automating tons of things, or EzDismount, which auto-dismounts you when you try to cast a spell, movable cast bars, better unit frames, chat modifications, easy dispel addons...players have been making their own QoL changes to the game ever since it released.

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Point is, please come up with actual arguments for why a change is bad, instead of just plugging your ears and screaming "NOT VANILLA!" or "SLIPPERY SLOPE!".

They will probably stop just after the whiney little posts about how Vanilla won't be as fun as "we" thought unless the following list of changes are made rendring it to be nothing more than retail capped at level 60.

[Aeula]

Transmog or at least new player models as an option is what I'm after. I don't see how those would lead to LFR and flying in a world that's made out of smoke and mirrors...

[AceofH]

Ah, another "REEE NO CHANGES" purist. Nice.

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Polls.

You can't say "people don't want this change!" if a majority vote that they do want it.

Could even go so far as making it require 75%+ or more "yes", so that you don't have people crying that the 51% are screwing over the 49%.

Then have those polls. Wait 6 months into classic and vote then. Anyone with a 60 gets to vote. That way we know your committed to classic

[StraTosSpeAr]

I don't see how there is any substantial argument against mechanical functionality changes.

And by that, I mean stuff like AoE looting or casting auto-dismounting you or being able to mail multiple items or any other number of things that aren't features (e.g. group finder or xmog) or balance changes.

There are plenty of things that need to stay (I will punch the next person that tries to say that they need to add the group finder to Vanilla servers), but as someone who was there on day one, good God there are a huge number of mechanical limitations to the original game that didn't have any "charm" to them; they were just plain miserable, and not by today's standards, but by the standards back then.

[Talsar]

But if they can't use slippery slope arguments then they'll need to find some other way to attempt to discredit and silence the people that disagree with them, and that requires brainpower, something the kinds of people using these arguments have in short supply.