Removal of World Buffs: Yes, or No?

[BuckSparkles]

There needs to be a bot that every time somebody opens up a thread "Should we change vanilla?" it responds with "NO."


Seriously.

[Atherions]

The first iteration of classic wow should have as few changes as possible, and start as early as possible. If they decide to later on to do a more tuned iteration of classic wow removing world buffs in raids would be the best step in making raids harder.

[Deleted]

In real vanilla the world buffs had very little impact on the progression race.

You're wrong.

World buffs were crucial in progress raiding. Bosses were tuned around these being available.

[Deleted]

I think in vanilla the buff had a 2 or 3 hour lockout so the buff was only cast once every 2-3 hours. As someone else mentioned, most private servers are also 1.12 patched which makes all classes a lot more powerful than they were at the start of vanilla. I'm not saying people wont use the buffs, but I'm saying that a bad guild wont kill hard bosses even with the buffs. In real vanilla the world buffs had very little impact on the progression race.

Still doesn't render this discussion pointless, they're more than likely gonna start on 1.12.1 (client-wise) as shown by polls etc.

[Sprinky]

You're wrong.

World buffs were crucial in progress raiding. Bosses were tuned around these being available.

In Naxxramas sure, even there though most bosses were tuned to the point where world buffs was not a guaranteed kill before you had had a large number of wipes to get the tactics down. Before that though the world buffs played a very small part in progression raiding.

[Twdft]

These world buffs were tedious to farm, vanished at death. On top of getting 1 ony and 1 nef head per week for your raid. I don't see the problem.

You're wrong.

World buffs were crucial in progress raiding. Bosses were tuned around these being available.

Bosses were tuned for 10 guys afk'ing. I'd say C'thun was about the first boss you'd need 40 guys on a 80% logs level.

[Sprinky]

It is against the board's rules to mention private server names here so edit them out.

Everybody is aware that we are using 1.12 talents here which makes the fights easier, however it is not the talents that trivialize encounters, it is the ridiculous overbuffage.

No, it does not take time to get ridiculously overbuffed. Here's how a Vanilla Raid Guild works (Poster MMKing explained that before):

• Step 1: Five people who need gear from DM tribute log on and clear DM Tribute Run two hours before the raid.
• Step 2: They convert their party to a Raid and then log out. One of the five stays logged on or invites another guild member who will stay logged on for the next 2 hours.
• Step 3: Raiders - as they log on - travel to Dire Maul, enter the DM North Raid Instance, and get the DM Buffs. This requires abt 8 minutes, 5 minutes with Aspect of The Pack. Then, they HS back to SW or Org.
• Step 4: Raiders log out until the pre-determined time the head of Onyxia is agreed to be popped at SW or Org.
• Step 5: All raiders log on at a set time , 2 minutes before the HEad of Ony is popped, say 18:58.
• Step 6: Head of Onyxia is popped at 19:00, all of the raid gets the buff which stacks with DM Buffs. Portal to IF/UC.
• Step 7: Travel to MC via Thorium point as a group, 10 mins max.

That's all well and good if you want to use the buffs for a speed clear of MC or something. Most guilds would need to clear to the boss they were progressing on first though and have a few pulls to make sure everyone is up to speed on the tactics and positioning. At that point everyone would leave the raid for 20-30 mins to go and get the buffs. If you had C'thun trash respawn while you were out getting the buffs then good luck getting back to the boss with all the world buffs intact. Are the buffs OP? Yes. In my opinion though the effort it took to get them justified the power for a once a week shot at the kill. On meaningful bosses the world buffs certainly never guaranteed a kill either.

[Deleted]

These world buffs were tedious to farm, vanished at death. On top of getting 1 ony and 1 nef head per week for your raid. I don't see the problem.



Bosses were tuned for 10 guys afk'ing. I'd say C'thun was about the first boss you'd need 40 guys on a 80% logs level.

There's a problem when people do not die and deal ridiculous dmg throughout the raid because they're crit capped. That's the problem. It trivialises raid content even further.

- - - Updated - - -

Watch some speed-run's of BWL or MC by raiding guilds on private servers, they're all using world buffs, they literally down them in 20-30 seconds.

[Santoryu]

That's ridiculous. You NEEDED world buffs to defeat certain bosses in Naxx.

Not really. We did cleared naxx without world buffs on LH. They were purposely turned off.


They are indeed a nice benefit for those who want to have them, but either have them available from the start or not at all, since enabling them at a later stage makes your raid perform abysmally.

[Sprinky]

There's a problem when people do not die and deal ridiculous dmg throughout the raid because they're crit capped. That's the problem. It trivialises raid content even further.

- - - Updated - - -

Watch some speed-run's of BWL or MC by raiding guilds on private servers, they're all using world buffs, they literally down them in 20-30 seconds.

Does anyone really care about guilds doing speed clears using the buffs in an instance they have been farming for months? To me its the same as using them in a 5 man dungeon and doing a speed clear. The real use for the buffs is for progression kills and as I explained above, 1 shot per week on a progression boss with the buffs is not game breaking.

[Deleted]

Does anyone really care about guilds doing speed clears using the buffs in an instance they have been farming for months? To me its the same as using them in a 5 man dungeon and doing a speed clear. The real use for the buffs is for progression kills and as I explained above, 1 shot per week on a progression boss with the buffs is not game breaking.

They make you so powerful it's ridiculous, they also remove the need for certain consumes for some classes too. I just think the game would be better without world buffs in raids, that is all.

[Sturmbringe]

They make you so powerful it's ridiculous, they also remove the need for certain consumes for some classes too. I just think the game would be better without world buffs in raids, that is all.

Exactly.

To begin with, when you are ridiculously overbuffed as I am on page 1 of this thread, you do not need consumables such as mana potions or demon runes, because bosses die so fast that one simply does not even run out of mana.

I don't think this is intended, and certainly not for patch 1.3 of the game, but this is what actually happens.

Somebody said that there was a time limit on popping Ony/Nefa heads in Vanilla. Frankly I don't remember if that is true, but what I do know is that if you don't have Ony/Nefa head available then no problem as you can just replace it with Songflower Serenade.

[SoLoR1]

That's ridiculous. You NEEDED world buffs to defeat certain bosses in Naxx.

Nah you didnt, we cleared whole naxx without world buffs in top 5.

[Celarent]

You're all clueless. You can't tell me to go back to legion cause I'm making a suggestion to make the game harder, just lol at you all

I suspect it's more that suggestions like these follow the same pattern of design Blizzard followed to simplify and standardize WoW, leading to exactly the situation right now where players seek the nuances and idiosyncrasies of the original game.

[Deleted]

I suspect it's more that suggestions like these follow the same pattern of design Blizzard followed to simplify and standardize WoW, leading to exactly the situation right now where players seek the nuances and idiosyncrasies of the original game.

Are you stupid? I'm suggesting partial removal of a part of the game that makes the game -way- more easier, so don't tell me I'm simplifying it kid, you probably never even played vanilla. I love how ignorant some people are on this forum, I love it.

[babyback]

That's ridiculous. You NEEDED world buffs to defeat certain bosses in Naxx.

No you didn’t. But they became easier.

[Echocho]

They should at least be disabled in raids since they trivialize most content.

[Celarent]

Don't be so sensitive. We're here for you.

I'm suggesting partial removal of a part of the game

Why yes; yes, you are.

[Jyggalag]

Haha, thank god! Someone who actually has played on vanilla, not a bunch of retail babies who have no clue! Do you know how it is, when I have dal'rends, to do 2.2k crit with bloodthirst? It's sickening, literally 1.3k dps on luciforn with pre-bis (I am even missing some). And best of all, you stupid prats can't even say this is QoL, since this is making the game harder

Literally, I've spoken to top players on vanilla servers, and they all agree they're game-breaking. Glad to see some people with sense.

Just goes to show how people are literally blinded by nostalgia. Hoping to either experience the game exactly as it they did previously, which is impossible, or put on a fake smile and endure the shitfest because reasons, oblivious to the fact that many people won't, and simply won't enjoy the game.

Either that or their opinions are purely driven by epeen, where purists playing private servers want everything to stay exactly as it was so that they can stomp their way through raids with all their secret OP strats

[Projectmars]

Exactly.

To begin with, when you are ridiculously overbuffed as I am on page 1 of this thread, you do not need consumables such as mana potions or demon runes, because bosses die so fast that one simply does not even run out of mana.

I don't think this is intended, and certainly not for patch 1.3 of the game, but this is what actually happens.

Somebody said that there was a time limit on popping Ony/Nefa heads in Vanilla. Frankly I don't remember if that is true, but what I do know is that if you don't have Ony/Nefa head available then no problem as you can just replace it with Songflower Serenade.

Classic is clearly not for you if you want to make changes. You should probably stick to the trashy private servers. Or retail.