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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Why are people shocked antorus is easier than tos?

    Mid tier raids are always harder than end tier raids when they're both current.

    Ulduar was harder than ICC sans heroic LK
    Firelands was harder than DS
    ToT was harder than SoO.

    Plus mythic ToS was ridiculously overturned. Antorus difficulty feels just right.
    Last edited by Wvvtayy; 2017-12-30 at 10:00 PM.
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  2. #2
    Vanilla, wod and TBC werent like that

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalBany View Post
    Vanilla, wod and TBC werent like that
    WoD didn't have a mid tier raid so it doesn't count
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  4. #4
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    WoW's difficulty on the bleeding edge of content has always been a bit schizophrenic. Balance is not and never has been Blizzard's strong suit. Anyway, people declaring something easy because a couple thousand of the best players on the planet killed a boss sooner than they did last raid tier always gives me a chuckle.
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  5. #5
    Scarab Lord dacoolist's Avatar
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    As a scrubknight pug heroic raider: this end raid was easier than Emerald Nightmare. Shits so easy a norm/lfr raider could do it blindfolded. People saying it’s hard are either in MYTHIC, or just plain suck at the game.

  6. #6
    Its not so much that it is really easy, it is just Really really boring. The raiding in Legion has been some of the worst , IMHO, that the game has ever seen. It is really very very Meh
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    As a scrubknight pug heroic raider: this end raid was easier than Emerald Nightmare. Shits so easy a norm/lfr raider could do it blindfolded. People saying it’s hard are either in MYTHIC, or just plain suck at the game.
    lul, maybe is because i never pugged EN or tos at the start, but heroic aggramar is so cancerous to pug compared to all other legion bosses that is impossibile that a normal raider can do it blindfolded

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    As a scrubknight pug heroic raider: this end raid was easier than Emerald Nightmare. Shits so easy a norm/lfr raider could do it blindfolded. People saying it’s hard are either in MYTHIC, or just plain suck at the game.
    Holy hyperbole batman.
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  9. #9
    Today I was shocked that LFR could really wipe repeatedly at Hasabel.

    I guess the Coven of Shivarra and Argus will have a field day soon.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonEntity View Post
    Today I was shocked that LFR could really wipe repeatedly at Hasabel.

    I guess the Coven of Shivarra and Argus will have a field day soon.
    Protip: only do LFR on Tuesday and Wednesday. Late week lfr is aids
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  11. #11
    Ulduar is the last raid Blizz ever made .. Meaning its the most fun raid instance they designed .. If you agree or don't agree, I'm sure you also think Ulduar was a great design and really fun? The question is what made it so much fun over even current content?

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Wvvtayy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Ulduar is the last raid Blizz ever made .. Meaning its the most fun raid instance they designed .. If you agree or don't agree, I'm sure you also think Ulduar was a great design and really fun? The question is what made it so much fun over even current content?
    Thats not what this topic is about...
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Ulduar is the last raid Blizz ever made .. Meaning its the most fun raid instance they designed .. If you agree or don't agree, I'm sure you also think Ulduar was a great design and really fun? The question is what made it so much fun over even current content?
    Ulduar was the least successful raid of Wrath. There's a reason they rushed out the next tier so quickly.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Ulduar was the least successful raid of Wrath. There's a reason they rushed out the next tier so quickly.
    How are you defining success?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzington View Post
    How are you defining success?
    As the devs do: participation.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    As the devs do: participation.
    Hmm, I don't remember Ulduar's participation being significantly lower than other raids in Wotlk, and I see no reason why it would. Got any numbers?

    What I do remember is that they said they messed up their timing, and that releasing ToC so soon after Ulduar was a mistake.

  17. #17
    Thematically, shouldn't the last raid of an expac be the hardest? Final boss, and all that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzington View Post
    Hmm, I don't remember Ulduar's participation being significantly lower than other raids in Wotlk, and I see no reason why it would. Got any numbers?

    What I do remember is that they said they messed up their timing, and that releasing ToC so soon after Ulduar was a mistake.
    Greg Street quotes:

    https://twitter.com/OccupyGStreet/st...26343815061504

    Ulduar was a high-water mark in many ways. Participation was low and the "button" hard modes weren't sustainable long term.

    Players were really spread out. Some couldn't beat the first boss and others were done.
    https://twitter.com/OccupyGStreet/st...25539268677632

    Ulduar was popular for the tiny percent of players who saw it. Flex mode normal would have helped it a ton.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    Q: Why was the anti-vaxxer's 4 year old child crying? A: Midlife crisis.

  19. #19
    I don't know about participation, but Ulduar had a huge amount of effort put into it. The clever hard modes were far more interesting than turning up a difficulty dial and the encounters were fantastic. The art design and music was very, very good.

    As someone who raided it I think it was the best raid ever made.

  20. #20
    His comment about some people being stuck on the first boss while others were done is interesting. Perhaps the first boss being a long winded vehicle thing turned some people off? That's the only part about it that would explain lower participation. Not like there was an attunement or anything. And the first few bosses were easy. Idk, I did ulduar when it was current and loved it.

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