Slaveri is not a white on black crime. It's a rich on poor crime.

[primalmatter]

Confederate States of America.

O I wasn't taking about that tiny slave trade but rather the African slave empire that the British crippled.

[Stelio Kontos]

O I wasn't taking about that tiny slave trade but rather the African slave empire that the British crippled.

Well, considering the British helped create and profited massively off the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, is it a feather in their cap, really? They did it because they no longer needed as much slave labor by the Industrial Revolution and crippling the slave trade would hurt colonial rivals like Portugal and Spain, who had yet to industrialize to the same degree.

Hell, I remember reading that only Portugal transported more slaves than Britain did in the 200+ years of the Atlantic slave-trade.

[primalmatter]

Well, considering the British helped create and profited massively off the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, is it a feather in their cap, really? They did it because they no longer needed as much slave labor by the Industrial Revolution and crippling the slave trade would hurt colonial rivals like Portugal and Spain, who had yet to industrialize to the same degree.

Hell, I remember reading that only Portugal transported more slaves than Britain did in the 200+ years of the Atlantic slave-trade.

Well yes it is a feather in their cap. It wasn't so progressed that they had no use for the labor (nothing in comparison to the states mind you). They took it upon themselves to cripple a ancient evil of the world.

What always confuses me about this argument is how it somehow paints negros as the victims rather then the perpetrators? They captured, raised, and sold the most slaves how is this somehow shoved onto another group of people for the evil they created?

[Stelio Kontos]

Well yes it is a feather in their cap. It wasn't so progressed that they had no use for the labor (nothing in comparison to the states mind you). They took it upon themselves to cripple a ancient evil of the world.

What always confuses me about this argument is how it somehow paints negros as the victims rather then the perpetrators? They captured, raised, and sold the most slaves how is this somehow shoved onto another group of people for the evil they created?

It's not a feather in their cap. They did it because they had little use for it and it would hurt their competitors if they stopped it.

And both African leadership and European colonial powers are complicit. Neither should be absolved. The ultimate victims of the Atlantic slave-trade were Africans, of course. They were victims of their own leadership in many cases, and of predatory European powers.

[primalmatter]

It's not a feather in their cap. They did it because they had little use for it and it would hurt their competitors if they stopped it.

And both African leadership and European colonial powers are complicit. Neither should be absolved. The ultimate victims of the Atlantic slave-trade were Africans, of course. They were victims of their own leadership in many cases, and of predatory European powers.

As well as the middle east... The European powers where not even the main buyers. I find it vexing why they are seen with such a negative light. Even if they had little use for it they still went about and crippled it closing off most seafaring ways to transport slaves from the africans.

[Stelio Kontos]

As well as the middle east... The European powers where not even the main buyers. I find it vexing why they are seen with such a negative light. Even if they had little use for it they still went about and crippled it closing off most seafaring ways to transport slaves from the africans.

You can keep up with the "but what about others", but all that means was the cast of predatory powers is larger, not devoid of Europeans. Yes, Arabs took massive numbers of Africans as slaves. Hell, my own Balkan ancestors were slaves in the Ottoman Empire,.

But again, that in no way makes what the European powers did any less heinous. You don't get to use the defense of "well, someone over there did it too" when you're being accused of a crime.

I seriously thought you folks learned as children that "but others are doing it too!" isn't a valid argument/defense.

[primalmatter]

You can keep up with the "but what about others", but all that means was the cast of predatory powers is larger, not devoid of Europeans. Yes, Arabs took massive numbers of Africans as slaves. Hell, my own Balkan ancestors were slaves in the Ottoman Empire,.

But again, that in no way makes what the European powers did any less heinous. You don't get to use the defense of "well, someone over there did it too" when you're being accused of a crime.

I seriously thought you folks learned as children that "but others are doing it too!" isn't a valid argument/defense.

Yet only one carries the blemish of this crime and it was the one that did the most to end it.

I find it a bit queer that the major players are seen either as not a part of it or even the victims of it. I realize that most people don't have a deep grasp of history and while I have some small specialization I wouldn't call myself a expert but what lead to the act of slavery be seen as some burden that only one race was responsible for by most of modern society in the west?

[Dug]

Yet only one carries the blemish of this crime and it was the one that did the most to end it.

I find it a bit queer that the major players are seen either as not a part of it or even the victims of it. I realize that most people don't have a deep grasp of history and while I have some small specialization I wouldn't call myself a expert but what lead to the act of slavery be seen as some burden that only one race was responsible for by most of modern society in the west?

Imagine that, most of the people you interact with on the internet and media is comprised of westerners and talk about things relevant to them and their culture and not what some people in the middle east did.

[Stelio Kontos]

Yet only one carries the blemish of this crime and it was the one that did the most to end it.

I find it a bit queer that the major players are seen either as not a part of it or even the victims of it. I realize that most people don't have a deep grasp of history and while I have some small specialization I wouldn't call myself a expert but what lead to the act of slavery be seen as some burden that only one race was responsible for by most of modern society in the west?

I'm far from ignorant of history. As I said, I've got slaves in my family tree far more recently than almost anyone else around here. And while yes, Arabs and some African leaders did have a hand in the slave trade, one cannot also ignore the fact that Europeans had their hands in the cookie jar as well. No one should be pilloried for it today, as no one who was involved in the trans-Atlantic slave-trade is still alive. I've never felt burdened by it, being white, as my ancestors were slaves in their own lands, not going to other peoples' lands and hauling them off to colonies as slaves.

For some people, any mention of their chosen group's role in the slave trade at all is "unfair" and "burdensome". That goes just as much for whites as it does anyone else.

[primalmatter]

Imagine that, most of the people you interact with on the internet and media is compromised of westerners and talk about things relevant to them and their culture and not what some people in the middle east did.

Then why would they demonize their own history to make themselves into some grand villain they never were?

[Stelio Kontos]

Then why would they demonize their own history to make themselves into some grand villain they never were?

Crying about being "villainized" in history when wrong-doings are discussed is just as bad historiography as calling a group "breakers of chains" for bowing out of a repugnant practice when it became advantageous to do so. Neither sort of statement has any place in proper historical analysis.

[Dug]

Then why would they demonize their own history to make themselves into some grand villain they never were?

Demonize? It was a vile thing to do no matter who's doing it and to what extent. And since african americans aren't middle eastern they'll talk about y'know american slavery and not what happened in bumfuckistan. Not a very hard concept to grasp here.

[Macaquerie]

Yet only one carries the blemish of this crime and it was the one that did the most to end it.

I find it a bit queer that the major players are seen either as not a part of it or even the victims of it. I realize that most people don't have a deep grasp of history and while I have some small specialization I wouldn't call myself a expert but what lead to the act of slavery be seen as some burden that only one race was responsible for by most of modern society in the west?

Because one race instituted a far more vicious and exploitative form of slavery than anything that had been seen elsewhere, and perpetuated a system where the descendants of those slaves continued to be denied basic rights up until the present day. And obviously white people don't deserve credit for ending slavery, because as noted before in this thread, it still exists and indeed there are more people enslaved right now than at any other point in history.

[primalmatter]

Because one race instituted a far more vicious and exploitative form of slavery than anything that had been seen elsewhere, and perpetuated a system where the descendants of those slaves continued to be denied basic rights up until the present day. And obviously white people don't deserve credit for ending slavery, because as noted before in this thread, it still exists and indeed there are more people enslaved right now than at any other point in history.

So they where worst the middle east that castrated every slave they purchased and in some areas continue to buy slaves today?

[Dug]

So they where worst the middle east that castrated every slave they purchased and in some areas continue to buy slaves today?

You never learn. Just go off and masturbate to your fantasy that some race war is coming Soon™ and that the south will rise again or something.

[Macaquerie]

So they where worst the middle east that castrated every slave they purchased and in some areas continue to buy slaves today?

Yes, far worse. Not to say that I condone the practice, but castration was common in many cultures for public servants to prevent them from establishing dynasties, and many slave eunuchs rose up the ranks and amassed quite a bit of wealth and power. On the other hand, I can't really picture a slave as Secretary of the Treasury, hell even now I think all the ones we've ever had have been white men.

[primalmatter]

You never learn. Just go off and masturbate to your fantasy that some race war is coming Soon™ and that the south will rise again or something.

It is difficult to learn when people seem to get annoyed and storm off when you present them with facts and challenge them on their stances.

What exactly is so appalling to suggest that while yes, The west had its role to play in slavery it was by far one of the better actors?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, far worse. Not to say that I condone the practice, but castration was common in many cultures for public servants to prevent them from establishing dynasties, and many slave eunuchs rose up the ranks and amassed quite a bit of wealth and power. On the other hand, I can't really picture a slave as Secretary of the Treasury, hell even now I think all the ones we've ever had have been white men.

Could you name a example of one of those slave eunuchs that rose up the ranks in the middle east?

[Mormolyce]

So they where worst the middle east that castrated every slave they purchased and in some areas continue to buy slaves today?

So uh, your understanding of this issue is based on Game of Thrones?

[primalmatter]

So uh, your understanding of this issue is based on Game of Thrones?

Historical documents and old trade recipes found by historians... What does any of this have to do with game of thrones?

[Dug]

It is difficult to learn when people seem to get annoyed and storm off when you present them with facts and challenge them on their stances.

What exactly is so appalling to suggest that while yes, The west had its role to play in slavery it was by far one of the better actors?

It's not that its "appalling" race war boy I'm just saying why does it matter? Its such a disingenuous question to ask why westerners are primarily concerned with the history of western slave trade and not the east. You know why but you live on being the forever contrarian edge lord that you are so this discussion will go no where.