Washington renames Russian embassy street after slain opposition MP

[Shalcker]

I'm all for Russia calling out the authoritarianism of another country, I just wish they would do something about their leader, a man who has political enemies jailed, beaten, and murdered.

Yeah, i sure wish Americans would do something to stop their citizens being murdered too.

It's a shame you support such tactics. I'm going to go ahead and stick with freedom on this one.

Yeah, stick with murder of your own citizens "for freedom", sure.

[Machismo]

Yeah, i sure wish Americans would do something to stop their citizens being murdered too.

Yeah, stick with murder of your own citizens, sure.

Here's the great thing, I don't support such things, regardless of doing it. Logical consistency is a wonderful thing.

Your President has his political opponents jailed, beaten, and murdered... and you support him. Sorry, you don't get to try and claim any moral high ground.

[rda]

What's hilarious is that some of the clowns in Russian duma are seriously discussing the proverbial "symmetric answer" mentioned jokingly above. I guess when you are a clown, you don't understand that these things are discussed as mocking whoever is doing them (because everything about them is stupid), you think doing these things is cool and why you are in the duma.

So, one guy, for example, suggests naming some street before the US embassy "The American Dead-End" or somesuch. :-) (And of course he has wide support and several others jumped on the chance to say something before the cameras and of course they condemned the evil America while looking all hard and decisive. Hey, if folks in Washington rename a couple more streets, they might effectively stall all other activity in duma. Which could actually be good, given that normally that activity is about nodding to some new war or some new law designed to line up the pockets of some of those nodding.)

[Shalcker]

Here's the great thing, I don't support such things, regardless of doing it. Logical consistency is a wonderful thing.

But you also don't seem to support others that are against such things when it comes to your own country. After all, you didn't say "sure, go ahead, that is awful too, reminders of that are good", no you just had to deflect with "not a same thing".

It is quite consistent with "my team - other team" mentality.

[Machismo]

But you also don't seem to support others that are against such things when it comes to your own country. After all, you didn't say "sure, go ahead, that is awful too, reminders of that are good", no you just had to deflect with "not a same thing".

It is quite consistent with "my team - other team" mentality.

That's not true at all, I merely point out the hypocrisy of people who support their own oppressive government, then whine about others. If you are going to be a hypocrite, I'm going to call you out on it.

I don't support government-based oppression, I don't care which government is doing it. You support a murderous autocrat. It's adorable that you think you can pin me down as some "patriot" defender of my governments past and current shitty behavior. If you can find a single example of it, feel free to do so.

At the end of the day, you support political violence, and you have no problem supporting a government that oppresses its own people. Your stance against gay people, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press is very well known.

[Shalcker]

That's not true at all, I merely point out the hypocrisy of people who support their own oppressive government, then whine about others. If you are going to be a hypocrite, I'm going to call you out on it.

So you agree that calling out Russians on murdering political opponents is hypocritical from American side that constantly "eliminates" anyone who might threaten them, including their own citizens? And sometimes those who do not threaten them at all too...

I said your "renaming" is low-level trolling that can be responded with equal low-level trolling. You're the one whining about it "not being the same thing"; sorry, but as far as trolling goes they are exact equivalents.

[rda]

So you agree that calling out Russians on murdering political opponents is hypocritical from American side that constantly "eliminates" anyone who might threaten them, including their own citizens? And sometimes those who do not threaten them at all too...

I said your "renaming" is low-level trolling that can be responded with equal low-level trolling. You're the one whining about it "not being the same thing"; sorry, but as far as trolling goes they are exact equivalents.

Did Obama or Clinton or Bush or some other president or some of their friends kill one of their former (or current) political enemies? Openly before the White House?

I mean, it is entertaining to watch the twists and turns in the thread, but at some point you should return to the ground.

[Shalcker]

Did Obama or Clinton or Bush or some other president or some of their friends kill one of their former (or current) political enemies?

Remember Bin Laden? They even broadcast it to Obama as it happened...

Extrajudicial "droning" of US citizens is a thing too.

Openly before the White House?

Well, Trump did say he could kill someone in broad daylight and not lose voters.

And he is probably right.

I mean, it is entertaining to watch the twists and turns in the thread, but at some point you should return to the ground.

Reality is that yes, Americans do kill their opponents. They are not opposed to it in principle.

Only it would make about as much sense in their political system between Democrats and Republicans as Zhirinovsky killing Zyuganov.

[rda]

Remember Bin Laden? They even broadcast it to Obama as it happened...

I know you think you sound very apt and smart saying "Bin Laden!" but in reality this simply shows to everyone that you are either completely devoid of anything resembling critical thinking or worse, completely dishonest.

Bin Laden was killing people. Nemtsov was not. All he did is pissed off folks at Kremlin with his remarks on their policies. The juxtaposition is grotesquely stupid.

Whenever the talk comes to current Russia, you are indistinguishable from a paid troll, as I said before. Perhaps you aren't, but it doesn't even matter much, because what you say is largely the same.

[Machismo]

So you agree that calling out Russians on murdering political opponents is hypocritical from American side that constantly "eliminates" anyone who might threaten them, including their own citizens? And sometimes those who do not threaten them at all too...

I said your "renaming" is low-level trolling that can be responded with equal low-level trolling. You're the one whining about it "not being the same thing"; sorry, but as far as trolling goes they are exact equivalents.

Well, when you can point to American politicians who murder political enemies, and people not calling them out for it... you will have a point. Until then, it is perfectly acceptable to condemn Putin for murdering his political opponents. Let me know when that starts happening.

At the end of the day, you support a murderous autocrat, there really is no way around it.

[Shalcker]

I know you think you sound very apt and smart saying "Bin Laden!" but in reality this simply shows to everyone that you are either completely devoid of anything resembling critical thinking or worse, completely dishonest.

Sorry, but i don't see how going into conspiracy theories (which certainly exist on US side - and Putin killing Nemtsov is one too) would be better.

This forum forbids discussions of conspiracy theories anyway.

So Bin Laden is mainstream, well-known example of opponent being assassinated with full knowledge of US president.

Bin Laden was killing people. Nemtsov was not.

Bin Laden didn't kill anyone personally, nor was he involved (as far as i remember) in any active plot against US government at the time he was killed.

[Elegiac]

Sorry, but i don't see how going into conspiracy theories (which certainly exist on US side - and Putin killing Nemtsov is one too) would be better.

This forum forbids discussions of conspiracy theories anyway.

So Bin Laden is mainstream, well-known example of opponent being assassinated with full knowledge of US president.

Bin Laden didn't kill anyone personally, nor was he involved (as far as i remember) in any active plot against US government at the time he was killed.

Are you seriously reaching for whataboutist examples to the point that you're defending Osama Bin Laden?

[rda]

Sorry, but i don't see how going into conspiracy theories (which certainly exist on US side - and Putin killing Nemtsov is one too) would be better.

Nobody is saying Putin killed Nemtsov. This is another thing a troll would commonly say, by the way, because you no doubt know what people are alluding to and this "it was not Putin" is just a pose.

The sentiment is that Nemtsov was killed by the representatives of a certain mountainous nation by the order of their ruler who is a big friend of Putin, etc, etc, etc.

Bin Laden didn't kill anyone personally, nor was he involved (as far as i remember) in any active plot against US government at the time he was killed.

I don't know what to say. I think I am going to start reporting you for trolling for this shit from now on. This is not playing devil's advocates, this is plain trolling.

What you said does not matter one bit and you know it.

[Shalcker]

Are you seriously reaching for whataboutist examples to the point that you're defending Osama Bin Laden?

Was he opponent? 100%
Was he killed? No doubt.

US opposition to "killing opponents" is hypocritical => proven.

It doesn't happen with domestic politics because they are long devolved into dog and pony show where neither side differs in things that would be worth killing over; but even there sometimes people still try.

[rda]

Was he opponent? 100%
Was he killed? No doubt.

US opposition to "killing opponents" is hypocritical => proven.

Here, let me try it:

Does your nick have 'h' in it? 100%
Does Hitler's name also have 'h' in it? No doubt.

You are Hitler => proven.

Do you see it yet? Your idiotic 'hypocritical => proven' misses tons of details. These details are significant enough to overturn your stupid 'proven'. No, US opposition to killing peaceful political opponents like Nemtsov by government circles is not hypocritical.

Oh, who am I kidding, of course you are seeing all that. Next piece of wisdom from you is getting a report.

[Elegiac]

Was he opponent? 100%
Was he killed? No doubt.

US opposition to "killing opponents" is hypocritical => proven.

It doesn't happen with domestic politics because they are long devolved into dog and pony show where neither side differs in things that would be worth killing over; but even there sometimes people still try.

You realise that by trying to equivocate you're not actually disputing the fact that the Putinist regime is known for imprisoning and/or murdering political opponents, right?

I get that your brand of bullshit might convince idiot Midwesterners on facebook, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[Shalcker]

Do you see it yet? Your idiotic 'hypocritical => proven' misses tons of details. These details are significant enough to overturn your stupid 'proven'. No, US opposition to killing peaceful political opponents like Nemtsov by government circles is not hypocritical.

Well, what was first suggestion from which i started? Rename "something" around US embassy to any of innocent police victims in US.

Plenty of those to pick from.

Yet somehow "it's different"? Well, one is actual government forces killing people, and other "rogue elements" acting upon orders from unknown sources; i think you can see which one is worse...

- - - Updated - - -

You realise that by trying to equivocate you're not actually disputing the fact that the Putinist regime is known for imprisoning and/or murdering political opponents, right?

It is wrong in "murdering" part; "imprisoning" i can easily concede though.

[rda]

Plenty of those to pick from.

Zero so far. Because police victims are incomparable to political ones. Zero is different from Nemtsov, even if we only count Nemtsov.

[Elegiac]

It is wrong in "murdering" part; "imprisoning" i can easily concede though.

No, it's not wrong. But we here in the West get our news from sources other than RT.

[Independent voter]

Putin and the oligarchs can't afford to have a stranger become president because they've stolen billions of corruption dollars from the Russian people. That's why Putin and oligarchs murdered Boris Nemtsov.

The Panama Papers revealed that Putin has $2 billion in a Panamanian bank account and I'm sure that's only a fraction of Putin's ill gotten wealth.