Don't ask for balancing classes. Ask for the Burning Crusade.

[Kazlofski]

But so is LFR, flying, personal loot, cross realm servers and so on.
Would you want all that? Whats the point then?

People give this argument all the time, but it's simple to counter it.

Let's give it an analogy... Would a person running over a human with his car accidentally after the human barged in the middle of the road while there was no pedestrian crossing get the same punishment from the judge as someone who purposefully ran over people with his car and tried to kill as many as possible?

Of course not, the community via discussions and especially Blizzard as they have all these years (and every developer that received feedback) know how to differentiate between what's a really minor convenient change that won't harm the game at at all vs transmog/LFR etc etc that are significat features that will completely change the game.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

No changes. Vanilla is vanilla. Even in BC people will complain and want more balance changes. Its the slippery slop. If you are really complaining about competition in Classic WoW than enjoy killing bosses that have been dead for more than a decade. It is not for competition. It is for playing vanilla.

[Aggrophobic]

People give this argument all the time, but it's simple to counter it.

Let's give it an analogy... Would a person running over a human with his car accidentally after the human barged in the middle of the road while there was no pedestrian crossing get the same punishment from the judge as someone who purposefully ran over people with his car and tried to kill as many as possible?

Of course not, the community via discussions and especially Blizzard as they have all these years (and every developer that received feedback) know how to differentiate between what's a really minor convenient change that won't harm the game at at all vs transmog/LFR etc etc that are significat features that will completely change the game.

What? That does not even make sense.

[Thimagryn]

Going to feel the need to repeat it again : those who ask for altering with these "improvements" are by and large NOT the ones who actually asked for Classic servers in the first place, they are either bandwagonners or, for a number of them, just trolls who were actually against Classic servers to begin with and are just trying to shit down them by fanning the flames.

It's easier to treat those who have different opinions as trolls and bandwagoners. Dehumanizing the opinions of those who don't agree with your own is a lot easier than valuing them as equals that may have also played Vanilla.

I want to play Vanilla. I signed the petition. I don't want to start Vanilla with 1.12 but I DO want some of its class parity added earlier to the game because I've done pre-1.07 raiding as a 'Hybrid' innervate-bot. What part of this makes me a troll?

[Akka]

It's easier to treat those who have different opinions as trolls and bandwagoners. Dehumanizing the opinions of those who don't agree with your own is a lot easier than valuing them as equals that may have also played Vanilla.

I've seen enough of known names of rabid anti-Vanilla people from the Nostalrius megathread who came in these forums to know it's not just my imagination and there is a large amount of actual trolls spamming the Classic section.

I want to play Vanilla. I signed the petition. I don't want to start Vanilla with 1.12 but I DO want some of its class parity added earlier to the game because I've done pre-1.07 raiding as a 'Hybrid' innervate-bot. What part of this makes me a troll?

I don't know about troll, but at least you seem to have trouble reading, because I bothered to say "by and large" instead of "everyone".
Also, asking for a different patch to start is not considered "modifying" Vanilla. I'm speaking of the people who ask for changing the classes, or adding transmog/double-spec/LFR and so on. In fact, the very post I answered to spelled out these kind of modifications.
The consensus is that anything that actually happened in Vanilla is fair game. The annoyance is about the people who want to add things which weren't in Vanilla, sometimes to the point of drastically changing the whole game.

[Soon-TM]

I honestly don't understand what is the point of all these folks who think that the one and ultimate mark of balance is raid D(H)PS. Unlike later xpacs, Vanilla was much more than raiding, and even then this min-maxing they come with (ZOMG RAIDS FULL WITH WAR ROGUE MAGE NO HYBRID QQ) is ridiculous. No one but tryhard guilds did that, and they usually failed because of their priests going OOM (not enough innervates), warlocks doing crap damage (no shadow priest), or stupid things like that.

Morale of the story: if you roll hybrid (except warrior, whose DPS was overtuned) you will be asked to heal, since it's one of your class' strong points, but if you know what you are doing, you will be invited no matter your spec. You can't just say "I am Ret so I ain't healing", that means you refuse to play your class to its full extent.

[jstnw89]

BC probably was the best compromise between the two people

[Battlebeard]

It seems like a lot of people want Blizzard to "re-balance" some classes/specs (people that, in my opinion, just don't really want Classic) in the likeness of TBC. And by "re-balancing" they simply mean buffing their dps in raids (which combined with the fact that hybrids were already good in PVP, will ruin PVP).
Now, how they made classes in the Burning Crusade "balanced":
- by adding new talents and abilities like, for example, Vampiric Touch for priest which increased dps and solved mana issues;
- by giving to pure dps classes new PVP abilities to compensate for the increased dps of hybrids;
- they added a ton of class/spec specific gear so hybrids were on the same gear level as others;
- number of debuff slots was increased from 16 to 40, so raid leaders could invite more than 1 sp/boomy/or whatever.

Implementing all these changes in Classic would require a complete redesigning/retuning of all dungeons and raids. And, as a result, we would get a completely different game.

So, if you want classes to be "balanced" like in the Burning Crusade, just ask for the Burning Crusade servers. Leave Classic alone.

Again, kind of pointless thread. If they do a single balance, the game is changed, then it's not really vanilla and these servers become pointless.

[Thimagryn]

Again, kind of pointless thread. If they do a single balance, the game is changed, then it's not really vanilla and these servers become pointless.

If they release anything that isn't 1.0 at the start and the bugs are fixed, the game is changed too.

[Demithio]

I guess arguing gives us something to do for the next x amount of years while we wait for Blizzard...

[Halyon]

I don't want classes balanced like anything other than complete classes, I just wish them balanced.

[thunderdragon2]

Shut up... You know as much as everyone else does (=nothing) as how Classic will turn out in terms of success and playtime.

Either way, Blizzard won't be doing that. Don't like it? That's fine. But the point of Classic is to "simulate" Vanilla as close as it was, incl. all the inconvenient stuff. So deal with it or don't bother.

if the point of classic is to simulate vanilla then classic should launch as what ever patch vanilla was then u can experience all the bugs and server crashes as when it was live

[Deleted]

Blizzard can put you in the Vanilla environment but they will not be able to provide the vanilla experience. On average players are much better compared to back then, and have a much better grasp of both game mechanics and whatever class is fotm in whichever WoW Classic version Blizzard picks. The average raid dps will easily be 2-3 times higher compared to classic, and the average WoW BG is likely to be...afked more.

[Trunksee]

if the point of classic is to simulate vanilla then classic should launch as what ever patch vanilla was then u can experience all the bugs and server crashes as when it was live

The crashes and bugs yes happened but they got fixed. I am annoyed with people saying it was part of vanilla as a crap way of saying i didnt like it so we should cange it.
Vanilla through wrath was my home. I really havent played since cata. I have tried a few times and the game is not an mmorpg its an mmoaction game. Constant stimulation of gear no effort.
4 classes can bring the same thing. Its not an rpg anymore. I want a rpg where time spent means something.

[thunderdragon2]

The crashes and bugs yes happened but they got fixed. I am annoyed with people saying it was part of vanilla as a crap way of saying i didnt like it so we should cange it.
Vanilla through wrath was my home. I really havent played since cata. I have tried a few times and the game is not an mmorpg its an mmoaction game. Constant stimulation of gear no effort.
4 classes can bring the same thing. Its not an rpg anymore. I want a rpg where time spent means something.

i didn't play vanilla, i didn't even know wow existed till sunwell ( thanks to the south park episode) i'm only going on what i've heard if i wanted to experience it, i would want ti to be from the very start bugs, crashes and all

[Kazlofski]

Why bother hiring a full team just to give a copy of vanilla, it is called classic for a reason, they want to reproduce the experience with today gaming standards.

Yep, I wrote this before as well.
No clue why people some can't think a little bit beyond themselves and their own will.

[RobertMugabe]

Why bother hiring a full team just to give a copy of vanilla, it is called classic for a reason, they want to reproduce the experience with today gaming standards.

Because they are not going to do it, they even said it, Classic is about recreating vanilla as close as possible INCLUDING all the bad and "outdated" stuff... srsly, check out the confirmed/known info first before explaining to anyone what Classic is supposed to be

[Tojara]

Vanilla to me is just making sure the game play and experience is mostly intact.

There are modern systems I think that absolutely should be placed into Vanilla, that don't really detract from the core experience. I'm of the opinion the graphics don't count ( there is still a toggle for old character models if you really like that), and personally I don't really want to look at things like 2004 water when and spell effects, when I have a machine made for today's game.

Is anyone against modern looting systems, or the raiding interface in general? I'm not talking about adding personal loot, but I think the ability to have smarter tracking when a boss dies, in addition to the ability of being able to trade loot with eligible members absolutely should be standard in Vanilla. Why? It just frees up resources. Back then even if you could get a hold of a GM in an attempt to salvage loot that was mismanaged and/or bugged because of d/cs etc, there was about a 1% chance they would do anything about it. I think that's common sense too. What about the ability to restore items with the item restoration feature. Clearly that wasn't available back then, but does it really break the game?

What about guild interface, guild banks, and such? Obviously without any of the perks involved, but I don't see how that 'hurts' anything. It's just a more centralized way of doing things that are bit more transparent. This never happened to a guild I've been a part of, but the possibility of your guilds GM/Officers operating the guild bank on alts and just vanishing with it over night actually happened in Vanilla.

AoE looting is another thing, mind you it's probably not something that's absolutely needed considering it wasn't as common place to just mass AoE things down back in Vanilla either. On the flip side, what does it really hurt, except cut out 2-3 seconds of busy work between pulls? Improved mob spawn rate. Rares should be rare, yes, but should quest mobs have absurdly long respawn rates? Waiting around for several minutes really isn't that fun, and I don't see how an improvement in that area really destroys the experience of Vanilla either. I'm also of the opinion that shared mob tags within faction (that's not a rare spawn, because it wouldn't make sense, as that would have to allow personal loot) is a positive change in recent expansions as well.

Inventory in general. Pet battles shouldn't exist, but would it be acceptable to have a UI element like we have today that allows you to just look for toys, pets and mounts you've collected? I don't think anything of value is really lost if we don't have to have inventories clogged up with a couple of the pets and mounts you might like, or those several toys that were even present in Vanilla to begin with.

I don't really have plans to play Vanilla all that much (experienced it already), but might if there is dead time between a tier/expansion. The discussion however is fascinating because everybody wants something different. To me there are absolutely core QoL features that don't really go against what Vanilla (Classic) was all about, and I think I listed most of them.

Balancing classes is probably a fundamental no-no, as would making consumables easier to come by, speeding up the leveling experience or making a dungeon finder available. If people are honest though, there are quite a few things that can *improve* Vanilla without taking anything away from the core experience though.

[Byleth]

Honestly this is so stupid.

"Lets ask for worse because thats how it used to be."

The game can literally be upgraded to play better. Not talking about EASIER - just better. And people will still spout shit like that

I guess the issue here is, "define better".

Everyone has a different opinion, that's why all these threads are hostile ragefests. I think more and more people are just falling in line with the purist opinion, because it's easier than arguing with the fanatical cultists that they are.

Everyday these classic threads get more hostile, and people get more defensive. It's barely civil discourse at this point...

[Kokolums]

It does seem most are falling in line with the “you think you do but don’t” saying. You wanted them to make classic servers but now that you see what was really there you feel the need to “improve” what was wrong, be it transmogrifing, pet and mount tabs or others. You can’t take it as it was and be happy with it then don’t play cause when you change it you will not be getting the classic experience, just some knock off.

No,its just that most gamers want god mode. They will hack your game if they can, make themselves gods and one shot the final boss. We know this because we learned this back in the mid 1990s with Diablo 1. Diablo 1 was client side only, so everyone hacked the game, made themselves gods, walked down to diablo, one shot him,and then said "this game is boring" and quit. So we got Diablo 2, which offered the client-server model to prevent people from hacking the game files, to toss up roadblocks and obstacles, to get people to actually play the game. And so people found all kinds of hacks to get around the protections.

Gamers have not changed at ALL. You offer them vanilla, they immediately start asking Blizz to nerf EVERYTHING into the ground. Because what they REALLY want (but are too afraid to ask) is to have god mode. And its wrong to give it to them. I never expected anything else.

Blizzard has listened to the fans far too much since vanilla and they've nerfed a lot of systems and watered down the game.