The Tank Experiment

[Cempa]

So, as we approach the end of Legion, how do you think the 'tank' experiment PvP wise went?

From my end and specially BG wise, I have witnessed the rise of a new 'breed' of players: The wanna be DPS tank.

The really don't want to carry a flag or defend anything .. they just want to spam damage and cc ..

So, thank you Holinka and gang, you actully created a new category of players .. NOT a tank and NOT a healer and NOT DPS .. the TOOL class of players.

[MechaCThun]

So, as we approach the end of Legion, how do you think the 'tank' experiment PvP wise went?

From my end and specially BG wise, I have witnessed the rise of a new 'breed' of players: The wanna be DPS tank.

The really don't want to carry a flag or defend anything .. they just want to spam damage and cc ..

So, thank you Holinka and gang, you actully created a new category of players .. NOT a tank and NOT a healer and NOT DPS .. the TOOL class of players.

...really?

Tanks in BGs have ALWAYS been in there focusing on doing damage, not dying, and ignoring PvP objectives. Legion is not some new experiment with PvP templates that invited this. Certain templates perhaps benefited certain tank specs but to say a new style of "DPSing tanks" came from it is, quite frankly, absurd.

Funny enough your criticisms to this, quote new breed of wanna be DPS tank players unquote, applies to many players of all specs overall.

And tanking specs have been apart of this criticism for far too long already to consider it a brand new thing.

Really Cempa, you're stretching your whine threads lately. Get it together.

[Cempa]

...really?

Tanks in BGs have ALWAYS been in there focusing on doing damage, not dying, and ignoring PvP objectives. Legion is not some new experiment with PvP templates that invited this. Certain templates perhaps benefited certain tank specs but to say a new style of "DPSing tanks" came from it is, quite frankly, absurd.

Funny enough your criticisms to this, quote new breed of wanna be DPS tank players unquote, applies to many players of all specs overall.

And tanking specs have been apart of this criticism for far too long already to consider it a brand new thing.

Really Cempa, you're stretching your whine threads lately. Get it together.

While it’s true tanks have been played in PvP ever since Vanilla, you are lying ‘in a way’ by ignoring the massive buff -and deliberate Holinka and team ‘tank experiment’- that Legion brought. I realize you are a troll, but hay it is WoW!

It was a clear goal of the PvP team to increase tank representation during Legion. Go back to beta and recall how tanks played. Blizzard put forward a spec ‘tanks’ that could not be killed, crit for 500k. Now, go to live during launch and tanks ‘PvP’ wise where so over the top they have been continually nurfed until today, the end of an expansion.

That huge damage buff tanks got during beta and part of which carried over to live, pushed many to play the spec PvP wise. The problem was never that tanks did not exist, it’s that tanks hated to PuG. Holinka imagined a problem that did not exist and then proceeded to solve it like a 12 year old would -by spilling the apple cart and seeing what happens.

The net result is a new generation of players who moved away from how tanks where played PvP wise -team support, utility, harassment and control with a heavy defensive emphasis- to a tank spec that completely ignores any and all objectives and support roles. These new-gen tanks play the spec as if it’s a DPS spec! Pew Pew ..

You the president of the Holinka fan-boy club?

[Nihilan]

Is this your first season of pvp by chance? Because as SHU mentioned, this "New Generation" is nothing of the sort. The practice of tank specs intended for node defense, FCing, and crowd control but in reality just mindlessly trying to tunnel other players has been around for ages. It has nothing to do with anything Blizzard did and everything to do with players purposefully ignoring their roles.

[Deleted]

Tanks should not be viable in PvP except maybe in RBG. Trying to make tanks viable just makes it less fun for everyone else.

[ilik2345]

Problem mainly is not all tanks are created equal. The only tank that had great success is the DH tank. Great mobility, good survival, essential for rbg's. Other tanks faired variably, a prot warriror is a good defender of bases but i'd never want it carrying a flag, prot paladin? i've yet to see anyone queue as those, guardian druids, well they are'nt the first choice for running flags, and are not amazing robust, but they can stealth and that is a big plus, not big enough to make up for the insane speed of a dh but enough to make them a distant second place. Like paladins i've almost no experience with a monk tanking maybe someone else can fill those blanks in.

Overall its nice to see tanks have a reason to be in a rbg, a improvement on last expansion, but work still needs to be done.

Edit : If you have a tank doing similar damage to your dps, your dps are not doing anywhere near enough damage in pvp.

[Deleted]

Tanks should not be viable in PvP except maybe in RBG. Trying to make tanks viable just makes it less fun for everyone else.

I'd say the same thing about healers. Compared to support roles in any other game they are monstrously resilient.

[ilik2345]

I'd say the same thing about healers. Compared to support roles in any other game they are monstrously resilient.

Have you ever played a game with no healers? its a horrendous mess. You can't defend anything, at all. You die in seconds. sure you might kill something a few secs before you die, but you'll die shortly after :P

[Deleted]

I'd say the same thing about healers. Compared to support roles in any other game they are monstrously resilient.

Yeah you are right. Healers are extremely resilient but that's because a healer has to survive at least 2 dps in rated pvp. Except 2s in all other forms of rated pvp dps to healer ratio is 2:1. Healers being too strong is a problem especially in casual pvp for example bgs but adding tanks to that equation just makes it worse.

[Deleted]

Give tanks player collision and have taunt work in pvp where you cannot target anyone else while being taunted.

Gives tanks a better way to actually be tanks and then you can lower their damage and lower healers survivability. Enforce the role by having them actually be the guardians of their team, force people to attack you rather than just ignoring you. Which would also benefit and allow the following:
1. Make healers have less survivability, now require peeling and tanks getting inbetween the healer and enemy dps.
2. Make dps have less self healing, (especially warlocks) same as point 1.
3. Melees ridiculous mobility vs ranged would be less of an issue if you could have a tank actively pushing you back and preventing melee from getting in range of the ranged.
4. Blocking doorways to prevent access to points, (imagine a tank holding off 4 people from rushing your fc in wsg because he has them blocked off in a chokepoint)
5. Player collision would allow a way to maintain some peeling mechanics whilst allowing the removal of some of the massive amounts of cc that is crippling pvp enjoyment.

If we actually had effort put into bringing the holy trinity into pvp rather than everyone being a hybrid pvp would be alot better and more fun imo.

[Kithelle]

Tanks should not be viable in PvP except maybe in RBG. Trying to make tanks viable just makes it less fun for everyone else.

Low damage and high defense, as opposed to dps having high damage and low defense...easy to do but I guess it would be unfair that you can't one shot someone.

- - - Updated - - -

Give tanks player collision and have taunt work in pvp where you cannot target anyone else while being taunted.

Gives tanks a better way to actually be tanks and then you can lower their damage and lower healers survivability. Enforce the role by having them actually be the guardians of their team, force people to attack you rather than just ignoring you. Which would also benefit and allow the following:
1. Make healers have less survivability, now require peeling and tanks getting inbetween the healer and enemy dps.
2. Make dps have less self healing, (especially warlocks) same as point 1.
3. Melees ridiculous mobility vs ranged would be less of an issue if you could have a tank actively pushing you back and preventing melee from getting in range of the ranged.
4. Blocking doorways to prevent access to points, (imagine a tank holding off 4 people from rushing your fc in wsg because he has them blocked off in a chokepoint)
5. Player collision would allow a way to maintain some peeling mechanics whilst allowing the removal of some of the massive amounts of cc that is crippling pvp enjoyment.

If we actually had effort put into bringing the holy trinity into pvp rather than everyone being a hybrid pvp would be alot better and more fun imo.

Or if nothing else do like what ToR does with taunt, the player that is taunted does 30% (If I recall) less damage to anyone that isn't the tank.

[Deleted]

Low damage and high defense, as opposed to dps having high damage and low defense...easy to do but I guess it would be unfair that you can't one shot someone.

- - - Updated - - -



Or if nothing else do like what ToR does with taunt, the player that is taunted does 30% (If I recall) less damage to anyone that isn't the tank.

Low damage, high defense sounds easy enough to tweak on paper but in reality its a lot difficult. In game now for tank dmg is lowered by 25% then defense higher by 200% than that of a dps. Also tanks have more cc than dps.

[Kithelle]

Low damage, high defense sounds easy enough to tweak on paper but in reality its a lot difficult. In game now for tank dmg is lowered by 25% then defense higher by 200% than that of a dps. Also tanks have more cc than dps.

Blame the inept devs for that...just because they're stupid and hate pvp so they make stupid decisions doesn't mean it isn't possible. Just look at their moronic change that suddenly for no logical reason they decided tanks should take what was it 20-30% more damage instead of just lowering their damage potential.

[ONCHEhap]

Problem mainly is not all tanks are created equal. The only tank that had great success is the DH tank. Great mobility, good survival, essential for rbg's. Other tanks faired variably, a prot warriror is a good defender of bases but i'd never want it carrying a flag, prot paladin? i've yet to see anyone queue as those, guardian druids, well they are'nt the first choice for running flags, and are not amazing robust, but they can stealth and that is a big plus, not big enough to make up for the insane speed of a dh but enough to make them a distant second place. Like paladins i've almost no experience with a monk tanking maybe someone else can fill those blanks in.

Overall its nice to see tanks have a reason to be in a rbg, a improvement on last expansion, but work still needs to be done.

Edit : If you have a tank doing similar damage to your dps, your dps are not doing anywhere near enough damage in pvp.

You forgot to mention blood,who are insanely good at guarding a static point or defending a person

[Volitar]

TBH I think its fucking horrible. I think tanks should be unviable except for being flag carriers.

[Felrane]

Random BGs have been terrible all of Legion.

[Corroc]

So, as we approach the end of Legion, how do you think the 'tank' experiment PvP wise went?

From my end and specially BG wise, I have witnessed the rise of a new 'breed' of players: The wanna be DPS tank.

The really don't want to carry a flag or defend anything .. they just want to spam damage and cc ..

So, thank you Holinka and gang, you actully created a new category of players .. NOT a tank and NOT a healer and NOT DPS .. the TOOL class of players.

Let me guess you play rogue as main? Yeah I saw that Holinka hate from miles away.