Bitcoin

[NED funded]

More energy is wasted on food that people don't buy due to aesthetics itself. Not to mention the wasted food itself. There are plenty of other areas where energy, food, and resources are being wasted than to crib about bitcoin or cryptos.

Keep in mind that printing pennies in this day and age is equally wasteful. Not to mention the million dollar lobbying that goes in to keeping them alive. Same could be said for a lot of other things, but I am almost positive that most people here are refusing to see the underlying implications of blockchains and open ledger transactions in general before slamming cryptos.

At least there is some value to having pennies (preserving culture or what have you) and food excess is the result of something good actually (food production being plentiful). There is no societal value whatsoever in Bitcoin aside from at best being a speculative asset and devouring impressive amounts of energy.

[chazus]

At least there is some value to having pennies (preserving culture or what have you) and food excess is the result of something good actually (food production being plentiful). There is no societal value whatsoever in Bitcoin aside from at best being a speculative asset and devouring impressive amounts of energy.

Food production being 'plentiful' and promptly wasted accounts for more carbon footprint than crypto does. Not sure how that's 'good', unless it's good in that "As opposed to everyone starving"... which a lot of people do, and we don't do shit about it.

[Strawberry]

if this shit was half as useful as folding@home, i'd probably not have a leg to stand on but at the end of the day it just seems wasteful the way it is now, its digital fools gold, the only way you make more money on it is if someone is a bigger fool than you. i don't even want to imagine the amount of hardware chugging away at crypto barely managing to break even.

folding@home doesn't pay you.

It was funny to see all the fake news stories and fear around them bring the market down so much, and then a bunch of senators have this discussion

[video=youtube;2E_ePEtnWjQ]
If/when the dust settles and it starts to make a raise again, a lot of people are gonna make a lot of money from this recent dip and part of me wonders if it was manipulated in such a way for that reason. I didn't jump in on the drop, so I'm hoping another happens soon, just need some more fake new stories so scared people sell all their shit.

No, crypto has always lost value in the beginning of each year. This time it was a larger correction because of insane pump in December/early January and a lot of bad news coming out.
I can't speak for the rest of February and early March, but after that it's on the rise again.

Hopefully, it crashes to zero. Just the sheer amount of energy used with no apparent social benefit should be enough for countries to ban it, add to that the lack of regulation and fraudulent activities going on.

At least there is some value to having pennies (preserving culture or what have you) and food excess is the result of something good actually (food production being plentiful). There is no societal value whatsoever in Bitcoin aside from at best being a speculative asset and devouring impressive amounts of energy.

Your sheer ignorance and the lack of knowledge is astounding.
Why do you discuss about things you know nothing about? Don't you have any other threads that you can contribute to where you actually know something about?

While I won't say that they aren't using a decent amount of power, a majority of the articles posted regarding the crazy amounts of power/carbon footprint they had are borderline false. One guy made a statistic based off worst case expenditure (I'm sure you've heard the whole 'one bitcoin transaction uses as much power as ____' thing)

They were off by a ridiculous margin. They still use a chunk of power, but most people believe its a LOT more than it is (by a magnitude).

Tell me about it.
The news titles like "BITCOIN MINING USES MORE POWER THAN 167 COUNTRIES" was created to cause confusion and trigger negativity against Bitcoin.
It doesn't waste more electricity than 167 together, but more electricity than many whole countries in the world. But you know, Bitcoin is a worldwide activity, while Luxemborg, Babrados Dominica, Puerto Rico etc barely use any electricity. There's a shitload of micronations out there.

[bearlolzx]

The economy is redic hot right now. Like so hot that the government has to raise interest rates so the banks can make more money than they lend.

[NED funded]

Food production being 'plentiful' and promptly wasted accounts for more carbon footprint than crypto does. Not sure how that's 'good', unless it's good in that "As opposed to everyone starving"... which a lot of people do, and we don't do shit about it.

Anyone that wants to can get food in the US, I would call that a positive of food production being plentiful and in general producing food is inherently a good thing and improvements can be done on the system (regarding waste). And it's not true that we don't do shit about people starving in the developing world, there are plenty of charities dedicated to proper alimentation, aside from that or and outright invasion there is not much that can be done for these people unless their government changes. There is no positive side to bitcoin, it's just syphoning electricity and slowly becoming the subject to fraudulent shcemes and speculation.

- - - Updated - - -

Your sheer ignorance and the lack of knowledge is astounding.
Why do you discuss about things you know nothing about? Don't you have any other threads that you can contribute to where you actually know something about?

What is Bitcoin good for??

[chazus]

improvements can be done on the system (regarding waste).

But aren't.

And it's not true that we don't do shit about people starving in the developing world, there are plenty of charities dedicated to proper alimentation,

Yeah. It looks great on charities, but ask the people starving. Ever heard of Puerto Rico?

There is no positive side to bitcoin, it's just syphoning electricity and slowly becoming the subject to fraudulent shcemes and speculation.
What is Bitcoin good for??

It's difficult to have a debate of any kind when one of the parties clearly has no understanding of the topic.

Bitcoin has lots of useful purposes and applications. Just because it's being abused currently in it's iteration doesn't mean it's inherently bad.

Guess what? The US Dollar does a hell of a lot more damage to people and the world than Bitcoin, but we don't complain do we?

[Strawberry]

What is Bitcoin good for??

Decentralization. You control your money, no one else.
Low risk for merchants as Bitcoin payments cannot be reversed.
Low fees and possibility to almost instantly send money to anyone in the world.
While the transactions are available to everyone, personal information is impossible to obtain. Fantastic privacy.
No paperwork.
We finally get rid of banks who enslave us.

Also, remember that Bitcoin is just one crypto out of 1500+. Other cryptos create platforms for decentralized green energy, web hosting, storage, AI, supercomputing, bnb, travel, and so on.
There will be a crypto for everything.
Some will fail, others will become thousand times bigger than they are now.

This is just the beginning.

[NED funded]

Yeah. It looks great on charities, but ask the people starving. Ever heard of Puerto Rico?

People dying from starvation is pretty rare in the US, only affecting people that have severe mental diseases or are intentionally starved to death. As for charities, I'd refrain from making such claims, a quick google reveals that Feeding America provides food for more than 46 million people, saying that it only looks good for charities and not for the affected is ignorant.

Bitcoin has lots of useful purposes and applications. Just because it's being abused currently in it's iteration doesn't mean it's inherently bad.

Guess what? The US Dollar does a hell of a lot more damage to people and the world than Bitcoin, but we don't complain do we?

The only use I'm aware of is that its good for avoiding government regulations (Doing illegal shit), I'd hardly consider that something positive. But you can expand here if you feel I'm being unfair to bitcoin.

[chazus]

People dying from starvation is pretty rare in the US, only affecting people that have severe mental diseases or are intentionally starved to death. As for charities, I'd refrain from making such claims, a quick google reveals that Feeding America provides food for more than 46 million people, saying that it only looks good for charities and not for the affected is ignorant.

Charities do good things, yes. But a LOT of them overspend on stupid shit, too, or fraudulent stuff. That's not the point. My point was having 'excess food' in one place is not good there, and meanwhile tons of people starve elsewhere. Again, wasting food is not a good thing.

The only use I'm aware of is that its good for avoiding government regulations (Doing illegal shit), I'd hardly consider that something positive. But you can expand here if you feel I'm being unfair to bitcoin.

Go do some research, seriously. I'm honestly tired of having to explain to people when they go "blah, I don't like this thing, mostly because I don't understand it."

I'm literally too lazy to link one of my posts from other threads of people asking the same question.

[Deleted]

Maybe the problem isn't with the poster's reading comprehension, but rather, with your ability to communicate.

Your post was lacking in punctuation, so your intended meaning was lost.

Remember, punctuation and grammar is the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse".

English is my 3rd language so I probably miss a few things here and there. Meaning was clear though.

- - - Updated - - -

Hopefully, it crashes to zero. Just the sheer amount of energy used with no apparent social benefit should be enough for countries to ban it, add to that the lack of regulation and fraudulent activities going on.

Some coins like WABI for instance are actually doing a lot of good. Maybe do a bit of research that goes deeper than MSM headlines.

[NED funded]

Decentralization. You control your money, no one else.
Low risk for merchants as Bitcoin payments cannot be reversed.
Low fees and possibility to almost instantly send money to anyone in the world.
While the transactions are available to everyone, personal information is impossible to obtain. Fantastic privacy.
No paperwork.
We finally get rid of banks who enslave us.

Also, remember that Bitcoin is just one crypto out of 1500+. Other cryptos create platforms for decentralized green energy, web hosting, storage, AI, supercomputing, bnb, travel, and so on.
There will be a crypto for everything.
Some will fail, others will become thousand times bigger than they are now.

This is just the beginning.

Most of these aren't even what I would call good things.

For example:

Low risk for merchants as Bitcoin payments cannot be reversed.

Bad for consumers as they can be scammed easier.

Low fees and possibility to almost instantly send money to anyone in the world.

This is not true for Bitcoin.

No paperwork.

See 1. Paperwork ensures a legal framework in which a transaction can be carried out that protects both the consumer and the supplier.

We finally get rid of banks who enslave us.

[Raelbo]

Decentralization. You control your money, no one else.
Low risk for merchants as Bitcoin payments cannot be reversed.
Low fees and possibility to almost instantly send money to anyone in the world.
While the transactions are available to everyone, personal information is impossible to obtain. Fantastic privacy.
No paperwork.
We finally get rid of banks who enslave us.

Also, remember that Bitcoin is just one crypto out of 1500+. Other cryptos create platforms for decentralized green energy, web hosting, storage, AI, supercomputing, bnb, travel, and so on.
There will be a crypto for everything.
Some will fail, others will become thousand times bigger than they are now.

This is just the beginning.

While I don't disagree with any of this, the one big thing you missed is this:

A lot of people buy bitcoin (and other crypto currencies) as an investment. ie they buy it hoping/expecting it to grow in value. The problem with this is that it creates a bubble. People buy the thing hoping to make a profit for no effort. They succeed only because other people are also trying to do the same thing, which drives demand and results in the desired increase in value. But it is pyramid type of effect (note, I am not calling it a pyramid scheme, although it does suffer the same problem) because for there to be a gain in value, you rely on increasing demand. At some point the market run out of fools willing to bet on it. At which point the price has to fall.

[NED funded]

Go do some research, seriously. I'm honestly tired of having to explain to people when they go "blah, I don't like this thing, mostly because I don't understand it."

I'm literally too lazy to link one of my posts from other threads of people asking the same question.

Some top quality discussion right here.

[Strawberry]

Most of these aren't even what I would call good things.

For example:


Bad for consumers as they can be scammed easier.



This is not true for Bitcoin.



See 1. Paperwork ensures a legal framework in which a transaction can be carried out that protects both the consumer and the supplier.

You're eye rolling me for saying that banks enslave us? Are you fucking for real or just trolling me?
Unless you're living of your parents milions, then you'll have to take a loan to buy a house, or a new-ish car. You'll become banks bitch for 40 years.
If that doesn't make you their slave, then you're quite ignorant.

Please, educate yourself FULLY on the subject instead of reading news media and thinking you know blockchain. Then come back.
Or perhaps since you're not interested in blockchain, just avoid such discussion? No one is going to listen to you as you lack knowledge in the subject.

While I don't disagree with any of this, the one big thing you missed is this:

A lot of people buy bitcoin (and other crypto currencies) as an investment. ie they buy it hoping/expecting it to grow in value. The problem with this is that it creates a bubble. People buy the thing hoping to make a profit for no effort. They succeed only because other people are also trying to do the same thing, which drives demand and results in the desired increase in value. But it is pyramid type of effect (note, I am not calling it a pyramid scheme, although it does suffer the same problem) because for there to be a gain in value, you rely on increasing demand. At some point the market run out of fools willing to bet on it. At which point the price has to fall.

This is why we have corrections. There's no bubble.
People have been screaming bubble for years now. It's becoming tiresome to listen to the same old. Like listening to a radio set on repeat.

[NED funded]

You're eye rolling me for saying that banks enslave us? Are you fucking for real or just trolling me?
Unless you're living of your parents milions, then you'll have to take a loan to buy a house, or a new-ish car. You'll become banks bitch for 40 years.
If that doesn't make you their slave, then you're quite ignorant.

Please, educate yourself FULLY on the subject instead of reading news media and thinking you know blockchain. Then come back.
Or perhaps since you're not interested in blockchain, just avoid such discussion? No one is going to listen to you as you lack knowledge in the subject.

The discussion is about bitcoin. The discussion about blockchain is another thing.

[Raelbo]

This is why we have corrections. There's no bubble.
People have been screaming bubble for years now. It's becoming tiresome to listen to the same old. Like listening to a radio set on repeat.

Here is a quick definition of concepts like bubbles, corrections and crashes

The bitcoin phenomenon totally fits the description of a bubble:

A bubble is a type of investing phenomenon that demonstrates the most basic type of "emotional investing." A bubble occurs when investors put so much demand on a asset that they drive the price beyond any accurate or rational reflection of its actual worth. In the case of a stock, the actual worth would ideally be determined by the performance of the underlying company. Like the soap bubbles a child likes to blow, investing bubbles often appear as though they will rise forever, but since they are not formed from anything substantial, they eventually pop. And when they do, the money that was invested into them dissipates into the wind.

Here's what they have to say about corrections:

A correction is supposedly the market's way of slapping some sense into overly enthusiastic investors. As a general rule, a correction should not exceed a 20% loss of value in the market.... Although there is a lot of overlap between the terms, we usually use the term correction for a period of time when an asset or asset class drops over 10% in value but doesn't exceed the 20% threshold.

Bitcoin's recent losses represent significantly more than a 20% drop in price. Maybe you believe that the price will recover and continue the upward trend, given that it has recently bounced, but at the same time it's quite possible that the only reason the price has bounced back a bit is that overly optimistic investors believe that the price is low enough to reinvest (I believe the term for this is a "dead cat bounce"). I personally would not surprised if the price over the next 3 months drops closer to $2000 mark.

Fundamentally I just don't see that these massive prices of bitcoin are justified at all. It is all about emotional buying in the hopes of cashing in when the price increases in the same way as it has been increasing for some time already. Classic bubble.

PS: I'd also add that people who have invested money in bitcoin have a vested interest in trying to convince others that it is not a bubble, since it is the belief that the bubble won't burst and the price will continue to grow that drives that very price increase in the first place.

[Strawberry]

Here is a quick definition of concepts like bubbles, corrections and crashes

The bitcoin phenomenon totally fits the description of a bubble:



Here's what they have to say about corrections:



Bitcoin's recent losses represent significantly more than a 20% drop in price. Maybe you believe that the price will recover and continue the upward trend, given that it has recently bounced, but at the same time it's quite possible that the only reason the price has bounced back a bit is that overly optimistic investors believe that the price is low enough to reinvest (I believe the term for this is a "dead cat bounce"). I personally would not surprised if the price over the next 3 months drops closer to $2000 mark.

Fundamentally I just don't see that these massive prices of bitcoin are justified at all. It is all about emotional buying in the hopes of cashing in when the price increases in the same way as it has been increasing for some time already. Classic bubble.

PS: I'd also add that people who have invested money in bitcoin have a vested interest in trying to convince others that it is not a bubble, since it is the belief that the bubble won't burst and the price will continue to grow that drives that very price increase in the first place.

It's many corrections, nothing else because the value while it did drop 50% it took a month for it to go that low.
A lot of altcoins are in the bubble (which I never denied), Bitcoin isn't.
Proof?
https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/
Chart #3, Bitcoin domination. BTC has always been about 80%+ of total market cap for nearly 10 years until March 2017 when altcoins started to rise and eventually ended up in a bubble.


Bitcoin will probably never drop below $5000 mark. Simply, miners are a very large community and it costs about $5000 to mine one Bitcoin. And since miners have a huge say in Bitcoin price, the value will most likely never drop below the mining cost.

[Bigbazz]

No, crypto has always lost value in the beginning of each year. This time it was a larger correction because of insane pump in December/early January and a lot of bad news coming out.
I can't speak for the rest of February and early March, but after that it's on the rise again.

You just replied to me by repeating something I said earlier in this very thread. What I said in the last post was correct, you haven't been following crypto news if you think this is just the standard early year drop. Every dip these last 2 weeks has followed a news story, just as the end of the dip followed a news story, like clockwork.

[Raelbo]

Bitcoin will probably never drop below $5000 mark. Simply, miners are a very large community and it costs about $5000 to mine one Bitcoin. And since miners have a huge say in Bitcoin price, the value will most likely never drop below the mining cost.

That's a completely fallacious argument and defies the most fundamental law of economics: Supply and Demand.

The cost of mining a bitcoin is not static. For every bitcoin mined, the cost of the next bitcoin increases. However every day computing costs are coming down (basically newer processors can do more calculation with the same amount of power). So if everyone just stopped making bitcoin for a year and then started up again, the cost would be roughly halved. In short, the rate at which bitcoin are mined determines whether the price rises or falls, and there is an equilibrium state where the cost stays constant.

The reason bitcoins cost so much to mine right now is that the demand for them has been so high that it has pushed miners to mine even at the ludicrously high cost of over $5000. If the price of bitcoin drops, it will simply mean that mining will stop being profitable and people will stop doing it, which will result in the cost to mine falling until it reaches an economically viable level.

Which brings me back to the fundamental econical principle: Supply and Demand. Supply has to adjust, in price and quantity, according to changes in demand. Bitcoin demand has been dominated, and continues to be dominated, not by a demand to use the things as a currency, but by a demand to use them as an "investment", ie to sell later at a profit. People don't want bitcoins to use. They want to buy them so that they can sell them tomorrow for a profit, to other people who want to do exactly the same thing. It is a bubble, and when it bursts, as it did, the price has to crash, as it did.

The price of bitcoin will settle once all these "investors" get out of the system and people end up buying bitcoin for their intended purpose, namely as a currency. If you're buying a bitcoin as an "investment" you're taking a gamble, a gamble that someone with an even greater appetite for risk than you will take it off your hands in the hope of making a profit. At some point the world will run out of enough people with that kind of appetite for risk that the demand to buy will dry up, and what you'll be left with is a lot of desperate people eager to cut their losses before the price drops even lower, thus forcing the price to keep nosediving. That is what happened in the last month until the risk proposition became attractive enough for some people to start thinking that the price is low enough to try "investing" again.

But because the demand is still being driven these "investors", it is still a bubble. I am not saying that there is no opportunity to still make a potentially lucrative profit from trading in bitcoins, but I am saying that it comes with a very real risk of blowing up in your face and you losing a ton of money instead. And if you think that the mining cost is going to keep you safe, think again. All that means is that the miners are also running the risk of losing money.

Bitcoin is not a smart investment. It's actually a pretty foolish investment. But a lot of people have gotten away with it, and even made a lot of money out of it, not because they did anything smart, but because there were hordes of stupid, greedy people willing to risk losing that money in the hopes of getting rich quick.

[Blobfish]

Kind of hope cryptocurrencies die soon .

The miners that mine Bitcoin & other cryptocurrencies use NVIDA & AMD game cards

As such, Gaming PCs that us Gamers use have increased in price because demand for NVIDA game cards has gone thru the roof.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/h...nything-2018-2

Graphics cards are also being sold at greatly inflated prices these days – if you can even find them – due to shortages in supply, and it’s almost entirely because miners are buying up all the cards!