Legion is over... What to kill, what to keep?

[Deleted]

Keep: Suramar quest design
Kill: Order halls and every other kind of adaption of the WoD garrison system.

[Deleted]

Keep:
World Quests, keeps you going back into world and giving you something to do.
Mythic+. Endless content for people who want to push for higher keys

Kill
Titanforging, No tangible benefit for being a mythic raider/high key pusher when some casual can get the same item titanforge 985 from LFR.
Legendary System, Like the idea of legendaries, but make them utility only and make them properly targetable

[HuxNeva]

The core ideas behind Titanforging are positive. Always having the potential to get an upgrade for a slot regardless of the content you're doing, the chance to occasionally get a single really powerful item, etc. The issue is that those who feel compelled to min-max have a sort of endless grind ahead of them. If you put a visible cap on each piece of gear and give players a way to manually reach that, I think you mitigate a lot of the problems.

I get what you're saying, but the open ended nature is what keeps it from just being boxes to tick. Give the extreme min/max'ers a 'done', and you have just ruined it for the rest. People should realize that it is aa system that rewards effort, but that it is also a system of diminishing returns.
M+ should be the eternal latest repeatable content, together with the gated latest raid tier. Farming old raid tiers for BiS, that isn't grand, so some sort of extinguishing scenario for those might be a good thing.

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Titanforging, No tangible benefit for being a mythic raider/high key pusher when some casual can get the same item titanforge 985 from LFR.

Wait, you do realize there is a 45 base ilvl difference between LFR and M, right?
Let's be generous and say there is a 1 in 4 chance to get a forge proc. (you can adapt the number and calculate the impact yourself)
So for that M drop to go to 985 is a 1/(4^5)=1/1.024 chance
For the LFR drop to TF all the way to 985 is a 1/(4^14)= 1/268.435.456
So, your Mythic raider has a 262.144x higher chance of getting that reward! No tangible benefit? Right.
And yes, given the number of LFR's run each week, chances are you know someone, that knows someone that knows someone to whom it has happened. But for you personally, let's say you're going to loot 150 LFR bosses over the tier. So you'd be looking at a one in 1.789.569 chance that it will happen to you.

The sad thing is that people don't think, and just parrot the most bottom of the intellect barrel YouTube 'star' and repeat this nonsense.

[Deleted]

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Wait, you do realize there is a 45 base ilvl difference between LFR and M, right?
Let's be generous and say there is a 1 in 4 chance to get a forge proc. (you can adapt the number and calculate the impact yourself)
So for that M drop to go to 985 is a 1/(4^5)=1/1.024 chance
For the LFR drop to TF all the way to 985 is a 1/(4^14)= 1/268.435.456
So, your Mythic raider has a 262.144x higher chance of getting that reward! No tangible benefit? Right.
And yes, given the number of LFR's run each week, chances are you know someone, that knows someone that knows someone to whom it has happened. But for you personally, let's say you're going to loot 150 LFR bosses over the tier. So you'd be looking at a one in 1.789.569 chance that it will happen to you.

The sad thing is that people don't think, and just parrot the most bottom of the intellect barrel YouTube 'star' and repeat this nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Having seen 985 LFR tier drop for the guy sitting AFK in the back, yes i do think its wrong. Go back to the system where LFR is capped at 915, Normal at 925, HC at 935 and Mythic 945. Then tune bosses around that. Not around having to get titanforge gear to make it tuned properly.

Guessing you're a LFR raider? never been in mythic and worked hard to kill a boss only to see the guy in LFR getting better gear than you for doing no work

[HuxNeva]

Having seen 985 LFR tier drop for the guy sitting AFK in the back, yes i do think its wrong. Go back to the system where LFR is capped at 915, Normal at 925, HC at 935 and Mythic 945. Then tune bosses around that. Not around having to get titanforge gear to make it tuned properly.

So back to the good old 'raid or die' of eternal content drought for all? Bravo! And what for? Look, I feel for top100 M raiders having to learn how to self-limit and aapt to an open-ended but diminishing returns world. But if that has created all the potential for lasting content (M+) and the occasional smile on a 'lower tier' raider's face.

Guessing you're a LFR raider? never been in mythic and worked hard to kill a boss only to see the guy in LFR getting better gear than you for doing no work

Not that it matters, but I don't think I've even completed LFR this tier. I'm probably a very average run of the mill HC raider that dabbles a bit in the first few basses on M after HC is done. I don't get why you are so hung up on this. Just embrace probability and feel enlightened.

[Deleted]

I might be bit too casual to say but here goes

Keep: M+ (I only managed to do +8 but still enjoy it), World Quests, Hidden secrets

Kill: Legion style legendaries

[Bumbasta]

keep: world quests, order halls (really makes it interesting to level alts), mythic plus, level scaling (choosing your own zones to level).

kill: mission tables, legion (i hate the burning legion lore), spaceships, teleporting/portals as a way of travel, shared faction capitals.

[Venziir]

This week's patch effectively concludes Legion which, for me, was a pretty solid expansion. It had some really good bits, and some really disappointing bits, but it was much closer to Wrath and Mists than it was Cataclysm and Warlords.

But here's the question:

If there was one thing you wanted to keep for Battle for Azeroth, and one thing you wanted to kill, which would they be?

For me, it'd be:

Keep: World Quests.

I think these reinvigorated the world, and provided some steady content for more casual players with an aspect of progression throughout. It needs tweaked and developed, but I think it's really strong.

Kill: Mission Tables.

Honestly, it needs to go. It's had its time, it adds nothing of value to the game whatsoever (save as a poor gating mechanism), and is in fact an annoying design crutch that needs to be rubbed out. You think we want it, but we don't.

Over to you!

Well, I'm guessing you didn't read about BfA, since they are KEEPING WQ's and are KILLING the mission table all together.

[Unholyground]

Keep: WQ including the emissary cache thing. I could miss a day or two of playing without actually losing anything.

Kill: Anything even remotely resembling Warforging/Titanforging. Instead add a 10 ilv cap of possible increase to gear through professions, making Tailoring, Leatherworking and Blacksmithing relevant again.

I think they should keep the forging system but make it less powerful.

[Pua]

Well, I'm guessing you didn't read about BfA, since they are KEEPING WQ's and are KILLING the mission table all together.

Well, I'm guessing that you didn't really grasp the idea of the thread.

That said it is pretty subtle.

I think they should keep the forging system but make it less powerful.

I think, generally, it's valor point upgrades... But random and, thus, more frustrating for players.

[RoKPaNda]

Yeah, you actually specifically said:





Except M+ gear isn't high level....unless it titanforges. M+ gear is equivalent to heroic raid gear, not mythic raid gear. Unless it titanforges. So it is actually titanforging that's the issue here - no mythic raiders would be wearing any M+ gear if its max level was 940.

The whole M+ gear thing is pretty overblown anyway. You won't see Mythic raiders wearing hardly any M+ gear. It was mostly an issue at the beginning of the expansion when stats on jewellery were so imbalanced, leading to players grinding M+ for their BIS stat rings/necks etc. Now it's mostly only Relics.

The best gear - tier armour and trinkets - still comes from raids. Except titanforged arcanocrystals lol.

I actually like the titanforging system because it keeps old content somewhat relevant. It also makes it more worthwhile to farm raids after they've been cleared. But I do understand the POV of Mythic Raiders who have complained about the relative effort-reward ratio in Mythic raiding as a result of titanforging.

Reading comprehension. Saying that someone having 1-2 pieces of TF gear doesn't affect us Mythic raiders is not the same thing as saying that Mythic raiders don't complain about it. Thanks.

I actually personally don't have a problem with M+, but I feel that the anger of people who complain about TF is misdirected. You get a free piece of Mythic level gear each week from running a faceroll Mythic+, and in the process of doing that you have a decent chance at another piece of gear as well. It's a far bigger source of high ilevel gear than simply running Heroic. Heroic you MIGHT see a piece of nice gear, M+ you will DEFINITELY see one nice piece per week.

[Unholyground]

Well, I'm guessing that you didn't really grasp the idea of the thread.

That said it is pretty subtle.


I think, generally, it's valor point upgrades... But random and, thus, more frustrating for players.

I guess the randomness is kind of annoying, from a non raider perspective it was sweet having gear randomly be amazing for doing world content. I think they should just put raid buffs on raid gear so while in a raid instance you perform better by a % that increases the more raid gear you have. That way even if something titan forges outside of raiding the raiding gear itself still nets a better overall growth for raiding.

[Dawon]

Keep: WQs (but make them relevant through the WHOLE expansion, I dont need 860 drop anymore, I'm freaking 100 ilev avg ABOVE that).
Kill: Besides gnomes and stinking shit like that, I say the RNG Leggo system (remove leggos completely until u figure out how to make them feel like a damn leggo).

Change: remove purples from anything below HC raids.. everything should be colored blue as I wanna feel a sense of accomplishment to be "full purple", not a freshly dinged 120 that actually will be all purple from quest gear. So make even LFR and Normal raids blue drops (still with good stats tho).... make leggo really feel like leggo and make purple feel like you actually worked hard for it!

[Venziir]

Well, I'm guessing that you didn't really grasp the idea of the thread.

That said it is pretty subtle.


I think, generally, it's valor point upgrades... But random and, thus, more frustrating for players.

Not really. The point of "kill/keep" isn't to point out obvious things that are indeed fact, but instead to play about.

[Deleted]

Not really. The point of "kill/keep" isn't to point out obvious things that are indeed fact, but instead to play about.

I wasnt aware it was being scrapped. Either way there is no point to start a discussion over it. Its just a venting thread

[Venziir]

I wasnt aware it was being scrapped. Either way there is no point to start a discussion over it. Its just a venting thread

Yeah it's being scrapped, in the idea of BfA won't have a mission table. Though, there was a rumor, that Blizzard said that there would be something like it instead, but that was probably just a rumor.

[Pakheth]

Keep: Suramar style questing and city feeling. While frustrating also a very fun experience.

Kill: Legiondaries, random stats on gear, random mounts from rep boxes, RNG on top of fucking RNG, the bloody mission table, AP...

Change: Make WQ's more like MoP style story questing, with new stories unlocking at different rep tiers like in Suramar. Make gear have a set stat instead of the random bullshit we have now. Nothing feels worse than finally getting the item you want and it has shit stats.

[shade3891]

Keep: WQ
Keep: Mythic+
Keep: Class quests
Kill: Mission table
Kill: random legendary system

[kamuimac]

Reading comprehension. Saying that someone having 1-2 pieces of TF gear doesn't affect us Mythic raiders is not the same thing as saying that Mythic raiders don't complain about it. Thanks.

I actually personally don't have a problem with M+, but I feel that the anger of people who complain about TF is misdirected. You get a free piece of Mythic level gear each week from running a faceroll Mythic+, and in the process of doing that you have a decent chance at another piece of gear as well. It's a far bigger source of high ilevel gear than simply running Heroic. Heroic you MIGHT see a piece of nice gear, M+ you will DEFINITELY see one nice piece per week.

although for mythic raiders it may be indeed faceroll when done in guild group or with other people who did 2000+ of those instances already it doesnt mean that for normal casual player its doesnt require many hour investment .

and from completion statistics of +15 it ceratainly shows its not "faceroll" difficulty.

faceroll difficulty is wrold boss dropping 930 not +15 dungeons like be real.

[Pua]

I guess the randomness is kind of annoying, from a non raider perspective it was sweet having gear randomly be amazing for doing world content. I think they should just put raid buffs on raid gear so while in a raid instance you perform better by a % that increases the more raid gear you have. That way even if something titan forges outside of raiding the raiding gear itself still nets a better overall growth for raiding.

Personally, I support RNG in games. It’s absolutely a useful tool, and even the primary way to deal with reward vehicles in some instances. I reckon the snag is that Blizzard has doubled down on it since Mists, something that doesn’t create the ‘OMG AMAZING!’ moments that they want, but more ‘oh, FFS’ moments. I’m speculating, but that’s how it feels.

But I don’t think raid bonuses is a solution, because I think the game now has a real problem with the volume of gear going out. Players are showered with loot these days, which creates a disposability that exasperates the problem of nothing feeling special anymore.

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Not really. The point of "kill/keep" isn't to point out obvious things that are indeed fact, but instead to play about.

I’m sorry, but this sentence doesn’t make an ounce of sense.