Necromancer vs Tinker: Which class would be better for the game?

[Teriz]

Maybe something like Lucio from Overwatch where you either constantly heal or constantly increase movement speed based on what song you're playing?

:shrugs:

Okay.... And then what? You can't make 2-3 specs from that.

[Ielenia]

Wow, didn't expect this level of responses.

I suppose MMO-Champ still loves a good "class vs class" debate.

Hmm, poll's pretty lopsided as well..... I guess people are tired of dark edgy classes.

Or perhaps you shouldn't have picked a class that, arguably, has a huge overlap with an already existing class? That's like asking who would win in a race: Usain Bolt, or that guy that works in accounting.

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Maybe something like Lucio from Overwatch where you either constantly heal or constantly increase movement speed based on what song you're playing?

:shrugs:

Tinker, obviously.

Thanks for not including bard as an option. Joke of a class concept.



Yeah, that's how most bard enthusiasts respond when asking them how they would make Bard work.

Or perhaps we who like the Bard concept actually use our brains instead of just mocking the opposition and realize the class is quite versatile and could perform four out of the five roles in the game (healing, magic spellcaster dps, physical ranged dps, and melee dps), by using a combination of spellsong, archery and swordplay.

[Psykho]

The other problem with Bards is that there's no longstanding Warcraft character to associate them with. Monks had Chen Stormstout, DKs had Arthas/Lich King, Demon Hunters had Illidan, and Tinkers have Gelbin or Gazlowe.

Bards got nada.



I think Blizzard is running their traditional model of Race expansion and then class expansion. Legion was the class expansion, BfA is the race expansion, and the expansion after BfA will be the class expansion. All this stuff revolving Kezan and Azerite could be a set up for the Undermine expansion that a few players keep bringing up.

Oh man, I maid a thread for class mounts in BfA, though I did combine that with factional mount in a few ways

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Or perhaps you shouldn't have picked a class that, arguably, has a huge overlap with an already existing class? That's like asking who would win in a race: Usain Bolt, or that guy that works in accounting.

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Or perhaps we who like the Bard concept actually use our brains instead of just mocking the opposition and realize the class is quite versatile and could perform four out of the five roles in the game (healing, magic spellcaster dps, physical ranged dps, and melee dps), by using a combination of spellsong, archery and swordplay.

Well your not wrong

[yamix]

Shadow Hunter.

[Ielenia]

The other problem with Bards is that there's no longstanding Warcraft character to associate them with. Monks had Chen Stormstout, DKs had Arthas/Lich King, Demon Hunters had Illidan, and Tinkers have Gelbin or Gazlowe.

Bards got nada.

We could get Lorewalker Cho. On the other hand, we could also get a completely new "representative."

I think Blizzard is running their traditional model of Race expansion and then class expansion. Legion was the class expansion, BfA is the race expansion, and the expansion after BfA will be the class expansion. All this stuff revolving Kezan and Azerite could be a set up for the Undermine expansion that a few players keep bringing up.

Honestly, every time I see something like that I laugh, because thinks like that have been repeated since Cataclysm. Everything "could be a set up for a undermine expansion"... and it never happens. It could happen one day, sure, but, hey, if you toss an infinite amount of darts at a dartboard, you're bound to hit bullseye eventually.

[Deleted]

Tinker

Race restrictions: Gnome, Dwarf, Goblin and Undead.
Armour: Mail
Weapons: Guns, 1h hammers, 2h hammers, shields.
Stat: Agility/Intellect
Specs:
Melee Tank: Mechgineer - Uses a mech suite (shapeshift form) to weather attacks and a thrust pack to move fast across the battlefield. They use sawblades, flamethrowers and gun slugs to attack and barriers for extra defence.

Ranged DPS: Sapper - Uses a gun from range while setting up explosive traps, gun turrets and rockets to bombard enemies from afar. Also uses fold able jetpack to reposition self and stealth gadgets to stay hidden.

Ranged Healer: Biochemist- Uses a gun from range while utilising darts, bio beams and chemist bombs to heal allies. Attacks with electrified netting and tazers for CC. Can use a gyro copter cooldown to escape all damage while hovering in the air.

[Santti]

Out of those two? Necromancer.

The fuck is a "tinker"? That random ass hero you can hire in Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne multiplayer maps from those neutral hero taverns?

How about no?

[Deleted]

Out of those two? Necromancer.

The fuck is a "tinker"? That random ass hero you can hire in Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne multiplayer maps from those neutral hero taverns?

How about no?

These awesome guys:





Because the guy who built Orgrimmar and the blimp system is a nobody right? -_-

[Teriz]

We could get Lorewalker Cho. On the other hand, we could also get a completely new "representative."

You got some Lorewalker abilities and spec concepts to share?

Btw, what type of expansion would feature Chi on the cover? WoW return to Pandaria?

Honestly, every time I see something like that I laugh, because thinks like that have been repeated since Cataclysm. Everything "could be a set up for a undermine expansion"... and it never happens. It could happen one day, sure, but, hey, if you toss an infinite amount of darts at a dartboard, you're bound to hit bullseye eventually.

I said "could", not "definitely".

[Dolus]

Hunter spec.



Abilities split between Mages, Shaman, and Hunters



Abilities split between Warlocks, Priests, and Hunters.

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It's important to note that at the time of that tweet, the Tinker concept looked more like this;



Now it looks more like this;



Indicating that Rhamses is correct: The design team may have created a Tinker design that is palatable to the WoW design team.

Tinker would be flat out boring. Engineer redux.

[Teriz]

Tinker would be flat out boring. Engineer redux.

How would it be a "redux" when none of the Tinker's abilities appear in the Engineering profession?

[BedlamBros]

Or perhaps you shouldn't have picked a class that, arguably, has a huge overlap with an already existing class? That's like asking who would win in a race: Usain Bolt, or that guy that works in accounting.

I chose the two most popular class concepts.

Necromancer beat out Bards in a previous poll, and that's really the only concept that's missing from the poll. I mean, I could have replaced Necromancer with Bard, but it would have been a lot worse IMO. I don't think a lot of players are pining for a Bard class featuring an elf in tights playing a flute, or one featuring Lorewalker Cho putting us to sleep with stories.

Maybe people here just prefer the Tinker over other class concepts? Something to think about. I mean when I read a lot of future class threads, the arguments against the Tinker are fairly weak while the arguments against Necros and Bards are fairly strong.

[Oneirophobia]

Because I don't know about you I think that throwing a bomb every minute is an accurate portrayal to the depth and nuance as class could bring. Clearly the design space for technology is explored because some guy threw a bomb that one time.

Are you watering down engineering or the tinker, I can't tell.

Probably cause they're synonyms of each other.

[Varx]

Has anyone in this thread even referenced that amazing Necromancer fan concept by Amunrasonther. He proved it was possible to have a Necro class without totally ripping off of DK's or locks. With the right creativity you can make classes with similar themes stand on their own, otherwise how are holy paladins and holy priests, destro locks and fire mages, or Locks and DH's able to coexist. If you haven't seen it I highly recommend you do.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...-MMVtUGA4/edit

I could see this in a Scourge 2.0 expansion in an updated Northrend or maybe Azjol-Nerub as an underground "continent". Remeber Kel'thuzad is still alive and Bolvar is still obviously active.

[Amunrasonther]

Holy shit, fucking awesome dude maaad props.

Thank you very much! XD

Edit: haha, thanks @Varx. How weird you posted that as I was replying to someone else.

[BedlamBros]

Has anyone in this thread even referenced that amazing Necromancer fan concept by Amunrasonther. He proved it was possible to have a Necro class without totally ripping off of DK's or locks. With the right creativity you can make classes with similar themes stand on their own, otherwise how are holy paladins and holy priests, destro locks and fire mages, or Locks and DH's able to coexist. If you haven't seen it I highly recommend you do.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...-MMVtUGA4/edit

I could see this in a Scourge 2.0 expansion in an updated Northrend or maybe Azjol-Nerub as an underground "continent". Remeber Kel'thuzad is still alive and Bolvar is still obviously active.

Nothing against the level of creativity shown in that thread, but I think most players know that a Necromancer is going to take from DKs and Warlocks, and they simply don't want it. Also people tossing around a second Northrend expansion as their possible introduction isn't helping matters any.

[FelPlague]

Has anyone in this thread even referenced that amazing Necromancer fan concept by Amunrasonther. He proved it was possible to have a Necro class without totally ripping off of DK's or locks. With the right creativity you can make classes with similar themes stand on their own, otherwise how are holy paladins and holy priests, destro locks and fire mages, or Locks and DH's able to coexist. If you haven't seen it I highly recommend you do.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...-MMVtUGA4/edit

I could see this in a Scourge 2.0 expansion in an updated Northrend or maybe Azjol-Nerub as an underground "continent". Remeber Kel'thuzad is still alive and Bolvar is still obviously active.

btw mose of these spells just seem so shitty, they sound fun but are just stupid seeming... they all have just so much fucking effects that are pointless and mostly useless...
"bloody ice" yeah so useful... Oh wait since when are non tanks EVER direcrtly attacked?
im not even going to go through the rest of these, its just... what the fuck
"shallow grave" literally just an overpowered battle rez... ok? would never fucking happen
black magic, wouldent work in this day or time, because they dont do raid buffs anymore
devouring plague is litterally a dk spell, zombie again unholy spell
skelet army, literally an unholy spell
skeletal armor, blood dk spell
cripple, old warlock curses
death nova is pretty much old corpse explosion, again proven useless in raids
bloody ice literally a tanking spell basic
guillotine scythe is just execute

again, necromancer would be better off a fourth spec for death knight, an intelect plate ranged death knight using a mix of undead and frost spells

[Varx]

btw mose of these spells just seem so shitty, they sound fun but are just stupid seeming... they all have just so much fucking effects that are pointless and mostly useless...
"bloody ice" yeah so useful... Oh wait since when are non tanks EVER direcrtly attacked?
im not even going to go through the rest of these, its just... what the fuck
"shallow grave" literally just an overpowered battle rez... ok? would never fucking happen
black magic, wouldent work in this day or time, because they dont do raid buffs anymore
devouring plague is litterally a dk spell, zombie again unholy spell
skelet army, literally an unholy spell
skeletal armor, blood dk spell
cripple, old warlock curses
death nova is pretty much old corpse explosion, again proven useless in raids
bloody ice literally a tanking spell basic
guillotine scythe is just execute

again, necromancer would be better off a fourth spec for death knight, an intelect plate ranged death knight using a mix of undead and frost spells

Spell names and mechanics can easily be changed, but the theme will always be the same, and that's the point. Necromancers can coexist with Locks and DK's. I mean here we have a "Mad Scientist", "Dark Healer", and an "Undead shapeshifting caster". I'm sure Blizzard and their multi million creativeness can make that work especially if one of their fans can.

[Amunrasonther]

btw mose of these spells just seem so shitty, they sound fun but are just stupid seeming... they all have just so much fucking effects that are pointless and mostly useless...

Damn, hostile. So they sound fun yet they are shitty and stupid? Interesting.

"bloody ice" yeah so useful... Oh wait since when are non tanks EVER direcrtly attacked?

It didn't say "directly attacked" just 'attacked.' Taking any form of damage grants the proc.

"shallow grave" literally just an overpowered battle rez... ok? would never fucking happen

I wanted to give them a unique battle rez. The idea here is the person who died gets a temporary damage boost to make up for when they died.

black magic, wouldent work in this day or time, because they dont do raid buffs anymore

Um, you do know class raid buffs are coming back in BFA right?

devouring plague is litterally a dk spell, zombie again unholy spell

Plagues and Necromancy are themes shared between Necromancers and DKs much like you can find similar themes shared between Shamans and Mages, Priests and Paladins, Warlocks and Demon Hunters, etc.

skelet army, literally an unholy spell
skeletal armor, blood dk spell

These are Necromancy based spells.

cripple, old warlock curses

Cripple is an original Necromancer spell. Mine has the added twist.

death nova is pretty much old corpse explosion, again proven useless in raids

Corpse Explosion wasn't sucessful because you needed to target the body in order for it to work. That's not how Death Nova works. Something simply needs to die near you. Between Death Nova and Bloody Ice, I wanted to give the class lots of procs gained which can be used on your next target.

bloody ice literally a tanking spell basic

Addressed above.

guillotine scythe is just execute

A death class has an execute. Is that a problem?

again, necromancer would be better off a fourth spec for death knight, an intelect plate ranged death knight using a mix of undead and frost spells

Not for people who want to play a full fledged caster Necromancer archetype.

[Teriz]

Nothing against the level of creativity shown in that thread, but I think most players know that a Necromancer is going to take from DKs and Warlocks, and they simply don't want it. Also people tossing around a second Northrend expansion as their possible introduction isn't helping matters any.

As it shouldn't.

Ripping off the Death Knight's abilities is one thing, but ripping off the Death Knight expansion as well is something I don't think most WoW players want. I think most WoW players want something new and bold, not rehashes of things we already have, or adventures we've already done. I think the appeal of the Tinker concept is that we have Goblins and Gnomes with loads of lore and Warcraft history, a unique culture, and a little light-heartedness. I know some view light-hearted as weak and childish, but sometimes people like a sunshine after a long cloudy day. I could completely imagine after the dark and brooding Battle for Azeroth, Blizzard gives us another "relaxing" expansion like MoP with a light-hearted class with light-hearted protagonists.