Aftermath of the bigoted channel 4 interview and other sensationalist muckrakers.

[Gutpile]

Well, they are using a term coined by a white nationalist, and did run around with nazi flags. Maybe not all of them believe it, but they support people who do, so they are not any better.

No no, Everyone supports it. I'm told it's their core belief.

[Machismo]

No no, Everyone supports it. I'm told it's their core belief.

I didn't see too many alt righters opposing the white nationalists and neo-Nazis in Charlottesville.

[Gutpile]

My brain exploded from laughing at you constantly completely missing the point of what I post lol, doing the exact same thing that woman in that interview did lol.

How does it feel to be on the same level as those you claim to oppose?

Your brain certainly has exploded, evaporated or something.

[Fat Mac]

i wasnt sure what the issue was. i never heard of these people before but i watched the video and that dude seems pretty legit.

[NineSpine]

I understand that you using a fallacy doesn't mean you're wrong. That would be a fallacy fallacy.

I think it's still worth it to point out the thought terminating cliche, because it does show the rhetorical tactics you're using. Which is to say, calling Sam Harris or Jordan Peterson a dumb person's idea of a smart person, is not an original thought. It's just a meme passed around the various lefty hangouts of the internet. It's not actually an argument.



Would you please source this? Preferably with some kind of analysis of your own. You also haven't touched on how Jordan Peterson engages in this kind of behavior.

Sam Harris provides a thought experiment about the potential feasible case for using a nuclear first strike. Within the thought experiment, he is unclear whether it would be right or wrong to do so. He calls it an unthinkable crime but also says we should do it. The listener hears the part they agree with. One listener hears "He thinks its an unthinkable crime" and another hears "We should do it in that case". When people try to pin him down on what he is trying to say, he appeals to whichever interpretation is convenient in that moment. With people sympathetic to the nuclear first strike option, he goes right along. As soon as someone tries to call out the problems with is argument, he says "ITS JUST A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT AND I SAID ITS AN UNTHINKABLE CRIME".

[Theodarzna]

Do you think you are alt-right? Because I hate to break it to you my guy, but if you don't want the races to be separated and you don't believe in white identity politics, you aren't alt-right, you are just a memelord right winger.

The thing that makes me not count as Alt-Right is mainly my not caring about "race mixing", even arguing it would probably sate some of the problems vis a vis race in this country. But I would qualify as a pro-Identitarian person politically and even very right wing in many respects.

Alt-Right is so nebulous, I don't know who is in or out.

[Feltima]

Won't happen as the opposing perspective can't back up their views with empirical evidence. The interview is a prime example of when some one tries to defend the leftist identity politics and ideas. While the interviewer was unprepared it doesn't change the fact that the position is an impossible one to defend unless you ignore facts and well substantiated research.

Agreed. Shame people are more interested in winning than the pursuit of knowledge and understanding.

[Kalis]

Just because you believe the conspiracy doesn't change it.

It’s not a conspiracy, it is simply what happened.

By the 70s Marxism was regarded as so toxic, due to it always resulting in authoritarianism and slaughter, that nobody wanted to be associated with it, but many still held with its core beliefs that the West needed to be broken down and set up anew.

What they did was switch to what is commonly called identity politics and replaced the rich versus poor struggle, with white versus non-white, etc.

This is the basic reason that old school lefties hate identity politics, as it ignores the economic issues that transcend race, gender or sexuality, and why traditional right wingers hate it, because it is just rehashed Marxism.

They may not call themselves neo-Marxists, but the ideology came from Marxist thinkers and was based on the Marxist ideological template of an ‘us versus them’ struggle.

[Gutpile]

I didn't see too many alt righters opposing the white nationalists and neo-Nazis in Charlottesville.

So since any 'alt-righters' in Charlottesville who found themselves at odds with the mob and didn't risk standing up to them, then every 'alt-right' person believes the exact same thing that the worst of them do. Why didn't the BLM protesters who found themselves in the mobs who were shouting "What do we want? Dead cops!" stand up right then and oppose them?

[JohnBrown1917]

Your brain certainly has exploded, evaporated or something.

You ran out of come backs? What a shame.

But I got to go, the ambulance is here to pick me up, but before I go. I got one tip, try to handle being wrong a bit better next time, look at what it did to me!

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Agreed. Shame people are more interested in winning than the pursuit of knowledge and understanding.

So thats why they support this guy? lol

[Yarathir]

That's a fancy way of writing "blahblahblahblahblah i have no counterargument"

You are not very self-aware.

[Machismo]

So since any 'alt-righters' in Charlottesville who found themselves at odds with the mob and didn't risk standing up to them, then every 'alt-right' person believes the exact same thing that the worst of them do.

You need to up your meme game, it's rather pitiful. You are trying to argue against things that I didn't say. Sorry, you failed... maybe next time, slugger.

Here, start with the wiki... there's some big words in it, but if you sound them out slowly, you might have a shot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

[Venant]

The thing that makes me not count as Alt-Right is mainly my not caring about "race mixing", even arguing it would probably sate some of the problems vis a vis race in this country. But I would qualify as a pro-Identitarian person politically and even very right wing in many respects.

Alt-Right is so nebulous, I don't know who is in or out.

Do you think it is a possibility that the alt-right exists as a reaction to a movement that is attempting to dismantle certain traits that have proven to be extremely advantageous to survival, like in-group preference? It seems like the alt right is fighting against people who are carrying on the same mindset of the communists of the last century, namely that we could have a utopia if only we could change fundamental human nature that evolved over hundreds of thousands of years in response to reality.

[Zython]

Jordan Peterson is a key example of how people care WAY more about how people say things than what they say. Literally the only difference between him and someone like Pat Robertson is that Jordan uses flowery academic language to lend faux credibility to his views. If you actually know what the words he's saying MEAN, it's pretty easy to see this.

[NineSpine]

It’s not a conspiracy, it is simply what happened.

By the 70s Marxism was regarded as so toxic, due to it always resulting in authoritarianism and slaughter, that nobody wanted to be associated with it, but many still held with its core beliefs that the West needed to be broken down and set up anew.

What they did was switch to what is commonly called identity politics and replaced the rich versus poor struggle, with white versus non-white, etc.

This is the basic reason that old school lefties hate identity politics, as it ignores the economic issues that transcend race, gender or sexuality, and why traditional right wingers hate it, because it is just rehashed Marxism.

They may not call themselves neo-Marxists, but the ideology came from Marxist thinkers and was based on the Marxist ideological template of an ‘us versus them’ struggle.

You aren't even making sense. Marxism is ENTIRELY about class. Replacing class with race makes it not Marxism anymore. Marxism without class struggle is a nonsensical concept. This is all just a not-so-clever way to disregard people you disagree with by playing Seven Degrees of Karl Marx so that you can push them aside without having to address their argument. How can old school leftists who are sympathetic to marxism hate identity politics because they aren't marxist when the right wing hates them because they are marxist? That doesn't make any sense, and it all ignores that identity politics is just a modern term to describe something that precedes Marx. James Madison discusses what is basically identity politics in the federalist papers.

[Machismo]

Do you think it is a possibility that the alt-right exists as a reaction to a movement that is attempting to dismantle certain traits that have proven to be extremely advantageous to survival, like in-group preference? It seems like the alt right is fighting against people who are carrying on the same mindset of the communists of the last century, namely that we could have a utopia if only we could change fundamental human nature that evolved over hundreds of thousands of years in response to reality.

Do those traits happen to be xenophobia and racism?

[Gutpile]

You ran out of come backs? What a shame.

But I got to go, the ambulance is here to pick me up, but before I go. I got one tip, try to handle being wrong a bit better next time, look at what it did to me!

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So thats why they support this guy? lol

To use one of your witty retorts, lol whatever.

[NineSpine]

Do you think it is a possibility that the alt-right exists as a reaction to a movement that is attempting to dismantle certain traits that have proven to be extremely advantageous to survival, like in-group preference? It seems like the alt right is fighting against people who are carrying on the same mindset of the communists of the last century, namely that we could have a utopia if only we could change fundamental human nature that evolved over hundreds of thousands of years in response to reality.

In-group preference has not extremely advantageous to survival in 2017. You are basically arguing against adaptation to new circumstances on the basis that previous adaptations worked so well for previous circumstances. "I used a hammer to drive every nail I ever saw, so it must also drive this screw"

[Zython]

Do you think it is a possibility that the alt-right exists as a reaction to a movement that is attempting to dismantle certain traits that have proven to be extremely advantageous to survival, like in-group preference? It seems like the alt right is fighting against people who are carrying on the same mindset of the communists of the last century, namely that we could have a utopia if only we could change fundamental human nature that evolved over hundreds of thousands of years in response to reality.

If we need identity-based stratification in order for society to function, why do you also insist that the groups you personally belong to should be on the top? Seems awfully convenient if you ask me.

[NineSpine]

You are not very self-aware.

Let me know when you have an actual counterargument instead of "Nah".