Is Fire Viable now?

[Obelisk Kai]

Just looking for a quick and honest opinion...is fire viable?

Right now I'm a frost mage but I feel stymied by gear. I HAVE to maintain 2 pieces of tier 20 and 4 pieces of tier 21. This drastically limits the legendaries I can use as Frost. Now I know frost's BIS is the shard and bracers, but my guild tends to use bloodlust late in fights on progression bosses meaning I can rarely use the shard to it's maximum effect. Yet the logical replacement for the shard, the helm, is out of bounds because of the aforementioned tier situation.

Complicating matters is frost's crit. Why anyone thought tripling our crit against Frozen targets, rather than just guaranteeing it, was a good idea I'll never know. Frost Mage crit is like the old hit cap. You have to keep it in a certain zone. Too little and you gimp yourself, too much and you are wasting stats.

Fire at least offers the promise of a bit more flexibility in gear. And I have the bis legendaries for both specs. My Ebonchill though has better relics than my felo'melorn.

So is fire viable?

Or is 2 set tier 20 Frost mandatory? Everywhere I look people say it's pretty much required.

[Idriss]

every spec is not viable atm. Only frost on mythic argus is ok (you still need to pray for procs). Entire class needs big rework.

[Deleted]

Fire has been pretty much toe for toe with Frost in Antorus so far, but the last couple of bosses favour Frost.

If you're using BL late in your guild, you can always run Sephuz. It's a bit underwhelming - but the flat haste from it isn't too bad, and if you get an opportunity to proc it (interrupt or frost nova on adds) then it can become better than Shard.

[Deleted]

Fire is viable, no question ask. Sure here and there frost or arcane pulls ahead, but to be honest the mechanics of a lot of bosses puts frost in a disavantage (Nothing to attack and dropping stacks)

[Araitik]

Fire "double Ignite" bug was fixed with 7.3.5, resulting in a ~5% DPS loss. This has not been compensated in any way.

The spec is starting to fall behind, badly.

[Spaze]

every spec is not viable atm. Only frost on mythic argus is ok (you still need to pray for procs). Entire class needs big rework.

mage is one of the only classes that are op in every expansion and you are still whining like every other expansion we've talked yesterday about it in discord during the raid and the players who main mages said it is true

too funny if you ask me

[Swizzle]

mage is one of the only classes that are op in every expansion and you are still whining like every other expansion we've talked yesterday about it in discord during the raid and the players who main mages said it is true

too funny if you ask me

Mages weren't OP every expansion. It wasn't until Trial of the Grand Crusader in WotLK that they became truly competitive. Prior to that, they were mostly water coolers and Int buffs with middle of the pack to lower DPS.

Then again, I'm pretty sure if you browse any class forum during a time that class is doing weak, you will see people complaining that what they pay to play is suffering.

[Skylarking]

mage is one of the only classes that are op in every expansion and you are still whining like every other expansion we've talked yesterday about it in discord during the raid and the players who main mages said it is true

too funny if you ask me

The only time mages were over the top (afaik, atleast) was in BRF (while the double ignite was a thing) and HFC (arcanes huge burst with ring)

other than that they are pretty average all round

[Spaze]

Mages are far away from weak right now

[Swizzle]

The only time mages were over the top (afaik, atleast) was in BRF (while the double ignite was a thing) and HFC (arcanes huge burst with ring)

other than that they are pretty average all round

Arcane was super strong in ToGC due to insane haste scaling and set bonuses, Fire took over in ICC due to having 80% and higher crit being able to out DPS even Legendary wielding Warriors and DKs.

In Cata, Fire was amazingly OP at any AoE due to Combustion spreading, and Arcane was amazing for any single target burst.

Don't know about MoP since I didn't raid, but they were strong in PvP due to Altered Time.

The class has been in a decent spot post Ulduar, but only OP rarely. The problem now is all specs can do great if they have amazing RNG or can be total and utter shit if they don't. That is inherently bad game design and will probably be addressed in BfA (hopefully).

[Kaligon]

I've mained mage since Vanilla and raided every tier except the first in Cata, Last two in MOP and HFC when I took breaks from raiding.

TLDR: Mages have absolutely dominated the meters virtually every tier of every expansion. They aren't too insanely hard to play, but have rarely been boring or a cakewalk. A dedicated mage has been valuable in every instance in the game since the beginning and we've had more than our fair share or tiers on the absolute top of the charts.

In Molten Core, Frost mages were among the top DPS when they geared correctly (stack spellpower, not int as many wrongly did). They were absolutely essential on Rag. I was routinely top 3 on the meters throughout.

In BWL Frost mages were excellent, but perhaps not as strong as rogues. Mages were near the top. Certainly top 3 DPS classes again throughout the instance.

AQ40 Frost mages were again powerful, top 3 DPS. Technically I never got C'thun, but up to C'thun we were excellent.

Naxx was the day of the rolling ignite. Fire mages were absolutely insane, bugged level of crazy where all the ignite stacks would count for one mage and no one on any fight could even approach our damage. Even with one mage taking the majority of the ignite damage by 'stealing' the stack, the other mages were still very high on the charts.

In Karazhan, I led meters. Ofc it was a small group, so maybe I was just better than my guildies.

In SSC once again I was consistently top 3 on every fight. Mages were strong.

In TK I did a little worse on some fights, but still easily in the upper half and on Kael'Thas I was top again.

In Mount Hyjal absolutely no one could touch me on trash. Insane AOE while maintaining strong ST. Bosses are also destroyed people, but in that instance the trash was almost part of the boss fights as the boss would spawn on a timer whether or not the trash was gone.

In BT I started rolling Arcane wearing 2t5 for 20% damage/mana on AB and I regemmed and geared a full spirit set. I destroyed everyone on every fight. I've even got a video of part of the Illidan fight. I even beat people with Glaives.

In SWP I once again dominated the meters. I was neck and neck with glaive rogues on Brutallus (a demon fight where the glavies were a HUGE buff).

In New Naxx I started low on the charts, but by the end when my crit caught up and I switched to Frostfire, I was top or close to top on almost every fight. At this point I was in a top 25 world guild.

Ulduar was phenomenal for mages. I switched back to fire or Arcane depending on the fight and topped meters routinely. Only occasionally losing to a feral druid.

TOGC was a little less spectacular than Uld, but I still was near the top on every pull.

In ICC I once again stomped the meters and people wondered what was wrong if I wasn't top 3.

I basically skipped Ruby Sanctum. Killed it once in a sloppy kill that doesn't really count.

Cata I raided less hardcore until firelands.

In Firelands and Deathwing's instance though I raided in the top guild on the server and once again was near the top of the meters on every single fight, especially after picking up the legendary staff.

MoP I did quite well throughout the first tier, but was pretty casual for the next two and entirely skipped SOO.

WoD was excellent, I wasn't absolute top in Highmaul, but I was close, top 3 overall. Blackrock Foundry I once again rolled close to but not the absolute top. Other classes were starting to have chances to DPS.

In Hellfire I sorta took a break halfway through, but I had been doing quite well.

Emerald Nightmare; top or close to top throughout.

Nighthold; arguably the best class. Double Ice Lance was untouchable.

TOS; the truly broken instance for mages. We dominated the charts.

Argus; Well, this one is about the lowest I've seen mages. If you've played enough to have multiple specs, you can typically switch between Arcane and Frost and log near the top on every fight.


TLDR: Mages have absolutely dominated the meters virtually every tier of every expansion. They aren't too insanely hard to play, but have rarely been boring or a cakewalk. A dedicated mage has been valuable in every instance in the game since the beginning and we've had more than our fair share or tiers on the absolute top of the charts.

[HuxNeva]

Viable, yes, but expect to put in a lot more work for the same result, and unless there's some kind of cleave in the fight you won't touch frost.

[Deleted]

You must have played with some terrible people then, member mages being benched in tbc because they could not compete with locks.

[Kaligon]

In response to the original question, to log well as a mage in Argus you need to switch specs around. Fire is alright to play on every fight, but you won't be topping meters often unless you significantly out-skill and/or gear your guildies.

Arcane technically has the highest aggregate log in Mythic, but certain fights you need frost or fire. Some fights mages just don't compete well in Mythic. The differences are small enough that you can still top meters against most classes on most fights (Warlocks are sort of an exception). I've got the highest All Star Points in my 7/11 Mythic guild (we're fairly casual by Mythic standards, we'll get Vari this week!). Fire is good enough to play, but honestly, all three mage specs have uses.

Worldbreaker roll Frost or Fire, Dogs roll Frost or Fire, High Commander Arcane is clear top, fire is alright. Eonar Arcane is top, but it's a joke anyway, so who cares? Portal Keeper Arcane is top again, but Fire works too and Frost is nice if you're in the portal groups (you probably won't top meters here if you're portal group though). Soulhunter Arcane is dominant, frost also works, avoid fire. Kin'Goroth you can roll any of the specs, though Arcane might be the best for the raid due to insane burst on the adds when you really need it. Frost has solid sustain here. Varithamas is all about that Frost. One of the top specs in the game here. Primarily single target and you ice-lance cleave an off-add occasionally? This is our fight. Coven, Aggramar and Argus I haven't done on mythic yet, but mages are pretty much average for all 3.

- - - Updated - - -

Bro, I was in a US top 100 guild throughout Vanilla and TBC back when US was actually good. Those were solid raiders top 2% of the wow community. Starting in Black Temple, I ran with a WORLD top 50 guild. Back then I was heavily into PVP and sold points and then bought gear from them but I logged so well including beating their raiders that they offered me a ginvite at the end of the expansion. Throughout Wrath I raided with them and rolled the meters. Here are a few videos.

Excuse the campy humor in this first video. I was in high school and made it with my brother. Most of these are my POV for at least half the video or more.

Black Temple:
Illidan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CEEd6qS1Qw

Ulduar:

WORLD FIRST Heartbreaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1CcaWdMHaE Mages were on spark duty, destroyed our DPS because we had to change targets, but we were the best burst for the job.

Steelbreaker Hard Mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsNNFtw5zs

Thorim Hard Mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YdWc5BUraA Raid split, my meters are accurate as I was synced to other DPS. The healer POV did not sync his meters properly and didn't log anything while I was in the tunnel.

Yogg 0 World 36th: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe2b0PFOTqM

ICC:

Sindragosa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsJ388ZpIas

A well played mage has been extremely competitive. Virtually ever tier. I had similar results throughout BC, but I don't have actual videos to link. I could probably find some from SWP if I looked hard enough.

[music49]

depends on the content and group you are with, I've mained fire mage this whole expansion and we shine in some places and lack in others. I do heroic raiding and doing just fine compared to my other guildies. And for progression I did just fine as fire mage, since we have great single target dps. If your group is lacking single target fire might not be the best. If you enjoy fire mage play and know the class/spec well enough, fire mage is more than viable for all fights. If you are looking to get in the 100th percentile, maybe not so much

[dwarfeckiy]

Mages are being dominated by warlocks heavily in every aspect except food tables. Sad times indeed.

[Obelisk Kai]

Mages are far away from weak right now

That wasn't the question I asked. I asked other Mages if fire was viable compared to other Mage specs. In other words, this is really a topic for Mages.

You are derailing this thread by making it out to be some sort of mage whinefest, when you are the person driving that conversation and causing other Mages to respond to you rather than original point of the thread.

- - - Updated - - -

snip.

Thankyou.

And thank you all who answered the original question. I can look into this in more detail now.

[Osiris]

To answer this question we need to know your definition of "viable".

Is viable....top 10 mythic guild?
Is viable....doing heroic with your bros or in a pug?
Is viable....doing mythic+ casually with your friends?

[Celestraza]

The three specs are competitive with eachother. Arcane shining when you can utlize arcane explosion, fire when cooldowns allign/AoE and frost for single target. Best is to juggle the specs around but that is hard with the legendaries/weapon relics barrier. Frost/Fire imho are strong all-rounders. It's best to pick one and stick with it. Unless you are able to gear both of them equally (which is unlikely in normal mythic raiding guilds).

The mage class as a whole is not competitive though. Statistically we dropped down to the bottom of the worst specs in the game right now.
Varimithras as mentioned earlier is a fight made for frost mages yet frost is 500k dps behind on warlocks, warriors and other classes who are nearing the 3mil dps mark.
Heck check the statistics on the first boss. Pure single target and 3 mage specs on the bottom with boomkin

ToS/Antorus were poor for mages but our utlity is maintaining a raidspot for us.

[Poppichulo]

Mages are far away from weak right now

Wrong. We are one of the lowest if not the lowest specs right now in the game. Fire had a "bug" fixed recently and that bug was the only thing keeping us even remotely competitive (middle of the pack more or less), where as now we're complete trash.