Rogue 8.0 Discussion

[Mafic]

Can you not roll a 6 in the beta then?

I haven't seen a six roll so far in beta but on live there is no longer a six roll.

[omeomorfismo]

and poison bomb also costs 60 energy + a global right?

to be on a gcd pb should be clickable in first place. and 60 energy would be a very reasonabe cost to have it controllable :|

[Varolyn]

Shark infested waters got a name change and a new buff in the new build. It's now called "ruthless precision" and it increases the crit chance of BtE by 60%, and every other ability by 20%. Looks like blizz wants BtE to be a part of the rotation regardless of what azerite traits you have. Pretty interesting buff, we'll have to see how it goes though.

[Valkaneer]

I gave outlaw a run today, I thought it was great. Now I don't currently play it on Live, but it felt better to me than any other class I have tried so far. It's certainly more in-depth than most classes atm. Some only use 3 buttons, yuck, so outlaw was a nice change and I get that feeling of speed from the old combat spec. If they don't severly change it and keep other classes they way they are right now I almost certianly will Main spec Outlaw in BFA.

[zaino]

Change to shadow blades for sub:

Former: autos deal shadow and backstab/glooblade deal 30% more damage

New: all combo generators deal additional 75% damage as shadow.

Makes shadowstrike strong during dance windows. Other thoughts? I don’t know how much the loss of autos effects it. Nerf ? Buff?

[elfporn]

Change to shadow blades for sub:

Former: autos deal shadow and backstab/glooblade deal 30% more damage

New: all combo generators deal additional 75% damage as shadow.

Makes shadowstrike strong during dance windows. Other thoughts? I don’t know how much the loss of autos effects it. Nerf ? Buff?

They also generate 1 additional combo point.

Its going to be a large buff overall. A much larger chunk of damage is generated from builders vs auto attacks on live. It's unlikely that auto attacks are significantly stronger when bfa rolls out.

[zaino]

They also generate 1 additional combo point.

Its going to be a large buff overall. A much larger chunk of damage is generated from builders vs auto attacks on live. It's unlikely that auto attacks are significantly stronger when bfa rolls out.

Hmm with the change to weapon dps being the primary factor instead of just weapon damage I’m inclined to believe you on autos, looks like it’s a good buff.

The opener is gonna he gargantuan

[Varolyn]

They also generate 1 additional combo point.

Its going to be a large buff overall. A much larger chunk of damage is generated from builders vs auto attacks on live. It's unlikely that auto attacks are significantly stronger when bfa rolls out.

While I do think that this new iteration of shadowblades is better, auto-attacks are a significant part of rogue damage again in BFA. At least 15% of your total damage, even higher if you play outlaw.

[elfporn]

While I do think that this new iteration of shadowblades is better, auto-attacks are a significant part of rogue damage again in BFA. At least 15% of your total damage, even higher if you play outlaw.

Ehhh that's probably about right for outlaw, even on live, but waaaaay off for the other two specs. I will freely admit that I've not done any comparisons on bfa yet.

[Deleted]

The Blade Flurry change is interesting

[Varolyn]

Ehhh that's probably about right for outlaw, even on live, but waaaaay off for the other two specs. I will freely admit that I've not done any comparisons on bfa yet.

I've been on beta and have used details, and for both sub and sin, my auto attack dps is at lowest 13% at the highest 18%. People on the forums have noticed this as well. This is intentional btw, as shown by this tweet https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...66155680206848.

[elfporn]

I've been on beta and have used details, and for both sub and sin, my auto attack dps is at lowest 13% at the highest 18%. People on the forums have noticed this as well. This is intentional btw, as shown by this tweet https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...66155680206848.

You know, i remember that tweet now. Even so, the change should go forward as a nice buff, as well as a welcome functional change to a very lackluster "big" cooldown.

[Mafic]

Assassination simply stands out as the best spec at the moment as it is so versatile but also unique based on talent configurations. Sub's new Shuriken Tornado I am not a fan of to be honest.

Also that is bad news for Outlaw if autos is going to be a bigger source of damage in BFA, because Outlaw doesn't have the uptime of the other two specs which have DoTs and don't rely on autos damage as much as Outlaw along with mastery and combat potency procs. I suspect that is why they made Grappling Hook baseline but clearly you can see the spec is going to fall behind if they don't do some serious tuning. And the recent tuning nerfed Outlaw pretty significantly too.

[Varolyn]

Does anyone feel that sub's mastery should perhaps be changed? For awhile, it worked, even if it is a bit boring. It filled the sub fantasy well over the years of getting off big finishers. But with assassination' mastery now scaling off of bleeds with poisons, that means that sin's two finishers, rupture and envenom, scale with mastery, along with all the other poisons and bleeds. I know sub's mastery ramps up a little higher on the alpha, but it still appears to be underwhelming.

[Deleted]

Rogue has not much to offer for a 20 man raid. No good raid buffs like monk (5% more melee dmg), dh (5% more magic dmg), warri (10% agi/str buff), literally no raid support at all, what is the argument to bring a rogue for one of the 6-7 melee slots ? medicore dmg ? only thing that kept us in the running was survivability, and now even that took a big hit with the feint & cloak nerfs. Maybe there will be 1 or 2 bosses where u can soak something but thats about it. I play since TBC and i never felt this bad going into the next xpac. all 3 specs are somewhat outdated, sub is super slow and feels clunky, assa seems ok playstyle wise, but the 100 talent row ist just ..... crimson tempest aoe dot, hidden blades aoe burst, and ofc PB rng at its best. all 3 wont be good against a ST raid encounter or only with good rng. Oulaw with snd is the best option in my opinion but still lack luster compared to a DH, WW Monk or even Ret Pally.

[Aluren]

Rogue has not much to offer for a 20 man raid. No good raid buffs like monk (5% more melee dmg), dh (5% more magic dmg), warri (10% agi/str buff), literally no raid support at all, what is the argument to bring a rogue for one of the 6-7 melee slots ? medicore dmg ? only thing that kept us in the running was survivability, and now even that took a big hit with the feint & cloak nerfs. Maybe there will be 1 or 2 bosses where u can soak something but thats about it. I play since TBC and i never felt this bad going into the next xpac. all 3 specs are somewhat outdated, sub is super slow and feels clunky, assa seems ok playstyle wise, but the 100 talent row ist just ..... crimson tempest aoe dot, hidden blades aoe burst, and ofc PB rng at its best. all 3 wont be good against a ST raid encounter or only with good rng. Oulaw with snd is the best option in my opinion but still lack luster compared to a DH, WW Monk or even Ret Pally.

I kind of agree, all 3 specs feel really bad and are either clunky af or too rng heavy. But I still think our survivability is great, 15s on Feint is not that much and an extra 30s on cloak still allow us to cheese most boss mechanics.

But yeah, I was hoping rogues would get a bit more love.

[elfporn]

I kind of agree, all 3 specs feel really bad and are either clunky af or too rng heavy. But I still think our survivability is great, 15s on Feint is not that much and an extra 30s on cloak still allow us to cheese most boss mechanics.

But yeah, I was hoping rogues would get a bit more love.

Zero RNG means a 100% predictable rotation that never changes. Ever. In order to keep things mildly interesting, random elements are introduced into the rotation (blindside/poison bomb/greed/rtb/shadow techniques, etc)

These random elements make gameplay more interesting. If all RNG was removed, everyone would cry out "IT'S SOOOOO BORING".... among other things.

It's like pressing 1 - 2 - 3 repeatedly for 10 minutes vs 1 - 2 - 3 with 4 5 and 6 randomly.

I continue to be amazed that this is so difficult for people to understand. Blizzard could definitely do a better job with dps variance and ability synergy. But zero rng is a bad idea.

btw poison bomb's proc chance is now 4% proc chance per combo point, and dmg over 2sec vs 2.5% chance per cp and dmg over 3sec.

[Varolyn]

As it stands right now, poison bomb is not worth taking in AoE and surely not in ST. I've done multiple tests and have ran a few dungeons on the beta, poison bomb most of the time will do 1-2% of my total damage. It's damage is neutered despite the higher proc chance, but it can deal decent damage in aoe situations. However, crimson tempest is far better right now and obviously has more control. A five combo Tempest ends up dealing more damage than a poison bomb proc atm. For ST, the final row is mostly irrelevant but Tempest might be used if running exsang, otherwise the Fan of Knives talent might actually be used.

So poison bomb really isn't an issue right now. And even if it ends up being the ideal ST talent, as I said before it's damage is a lot lower plus it procs more so it won't lead significant dps fluctuations.

[Aluren]

Zero RNG means a 100% predictable rotation that never changes. Ever. In order to keep things mildly interesting, random elements are introduced into the rotation (blindside/poison bomb/greed/rtb/shadow techniques, etc)

These random elements make gameplay more interesting. If all RNG was removed, everyone would cry out "IT'S SOOOOO BORING".... among other things.

It's like pressing 1 - 2 - 3 repeatedly for 10 minutes vs 1 - 2 - 3 with 4 5 and 6 randomly.

I continue to be amazed that this is so difficult for people to understand. Blizzard could definitely do a better job with dps variance and ability synergy. But zero rng is a bad idea.

btw poison bomb's proc chance is now 4% proc chance per combo point, and dmg over 2sec vs 2.5% chance per cp and dmg over 3sec.

I never said anything about 0 rng, lol. Of course some rng is good but come on, RtB is freaking stupid. Even PB damage on live is pretty stupid, but yeah, balancing it's damage with the rest helps but keeping Outlaw like this is flat out stupid and quite frustrating.

What I'm saying is Sub feels very clunky, Assa as well, and Outlaw is STILL very rng heavy, more than it should be.

[Sinte]

As it stands right now, poison bomb is not worth taking in AoE and surely not in ST. I've done multiple tests and have ran a few dungeons on the beta, poison bomb most of the time will do 1-2% of my total damage. It's damage is neutered despite the higher proc chance, but it can deal decent damage in aoe situations. However, crimson tempest is far better right now and obviously has more control. A five combo Tempest ends up dealing more damage than a poison bomb proc atm. For ST, the final row is mostly irrelevant but Tempest might be used if running exsang, otherwise the Fan of Knives talent might actually be used.

So poison bomb really isn't an issue right now. And even if it ends up being the ideal ST talent, as I said before it's damage is a lot lower plus it procs more so it won't lead significant dps fluctuations.

That makes literally no sense, in ST you would always take PB, because it doesn't require you to waste resources and is only a benefit.