Rogue 8.0 Discussion

[Naiattavain]

Every time they try making energy pooling super relevant it just puts rogues backwards in the face of mana-type resource classes that play like an arcade game while dealing the same or more damage. It isn't the first time this complaint has cropped up.

honestly its like playing ninja gaiden on NES that's what the rogue experience is like live, its embarrassing.

[Axaion]

Yes, and i'm playing on beta. MFD is certainly one of the new talents you want to play with, but i suggest playing with FW, SF MfD, ES and MoS. Try that combo and you will find sub very much a extreme pool and dump spec. You can pretty much go seriously ham every 30s with everything and regen it again between symbols cds it works quite well.



Subjective mate, entirely depends on the result of that pooling. I would agree that if pooling results in mediocre damage then yes it would feel pretty shitty, but as long as they tune the numbers right, the slow pooling of beta sub will feel pretty dam nice as you will be unleashing godly amounts of burst every 30s with symbols. Like i said as long as they tune it correctly. But if you do not like that playstyle, its like i said in the first place subjective.



Ok fine, maybe i should have said "drink up me hearties" is now available for all rogue specs, but my original point still stands that that now RMP will be much stronger as this is available to not just outlaw(which is rarely played in RMP(ladder not whazz)) but sub and ass. But anyways, was just getting hyped for buffs, which it is for pvp, thanks for being so negative mate, just what we all need in the community.....

Sorry mate, all im hearing here is "its just alpha, wait for beta, beta will fix it, wait for ptr, ptr will fix it" soon it going to be "its just release, 8.1 will fix it"

MoS is a horrible talent as of when they reworked it in 7.2 or whatever.
Also having to re-apply nightblade so freaking often hurts us even more with the low amounts of energy we have compared to live, sub is one of the .. many specs that just dont really work without full artifact traits.

Also having to force us to pool for insane amounts of time should be outweighted with insane amounts of damage when we do, which it wont because if it did, we would be running around oneshotting literally everyone.

No one wins when we have to pool, either it works as intended and we ruin it for everyone else, or it wont, in which case... why?.


Were being "negative" because of blizzards track record here, it wont help to just keep thinking blizzard can do no wrong like with Diablo 3.

[Deleted]

Sorry mate, all im hearing here is "its just alpha, wait for beta, beta will fix it, wait for ptr, ptr will fix it" soon it going to be "its just release, 8.1 will fix it"

MoS is a horrible talent as of when they reworked it in 7.2 or whatever.
Also having to re-apply nightblade so freaking often hurts us even more with the low amounts of energy we have compared to live, sub is one of the .. many specs that just dont really work without full artifact traits.

Also having to force us to pool for insane amounts of time should be outweighted with insane amounts of damage when we do, which it wont because if it did, we would be running around oneshotting literally everyone.

No one wins when we have to pool, either it works as intended and we ruin it for everyone else, or it wont, in which case... why?.


Were being "negative" because of blizzards track record here, it wont help to just keep thinking blizzard can do no wrong like with Diablo 3.

All im hearing is you dont like it, which is fine. And no we wont be one shotting everyone as pvp scaling is dynamic in the world not just instanced pvp

Sub has always been about pooling and always feels slower at the start of an expansion, its called a gear curve, one of the main reasons sub also traditionally doesnt come good to a few tiers in. If thats a major issue for you then feels bad, but with no artifacts fettering spec choice its less of an issue.

Im fine with it and if it means im not stuck playing one spec the whole expansion all the better, its why i like playing pures afterall

[Axaion]

All im hearing is you dont like it, which is fine. And no we wont be one shotting everyone as pvp scaling is dynamic in the world not just instanced pvp

Sub has always been about pooling and always feels slower at the start of an expansion, its called a gear curve, one of the main reasons sub also traditionally doesnt come good to a few tiers in. If thats a major issue for you then feels bad, but with no artifacts fettering spec choice its less of an issue.

Im fine with it and if it means im not stuck playing one spec the whole expansion all the better, its why i like playing pures afterall

So were not going to get any rewards for pooling forever in pvp?, then whats the point?

Sub has been all over the place when it comes to gear levels for Legion, i dont recall is being slower in other expansion ( i did skip Cata/Mop though. )

As for gear basicly forcing you to play/not play a spec, well thats fine for you, but personally id rather not get stuck in the same mud warriors have been in for ages.

[Deleted]

So were not going to get any rewards for pooling forever in pvp?, then whats the point?

Sub has been all over the place when it comes to gear levels for Legion, i dont recall is being slower in other expansion ( i did skip Cata/Mop though. )

As for gear basicly forcing you to play/not play a spec, well thats fine for you, but personally id rather not get stuck in the same mud warriors have been in for ages.

Pooling forever? It is hardly the case and I don't really get why that is ever an issue regarding sub pvp? Sub has always been about control with some burst, hence RMP. It's playstyle revolves around DR windows i.e bursting over 10-15s while cc chaining the healer, then reseting to pool and setup for the next attempt. You are not mindlessly tunneling damage like Sin. So yes the "reward" or pay off is being patient, pooling and slotting your damage into those windows.

In the world setting you are never going to be in the thick of things, you can be if you want but you'll spend more time in the graveyard than being effective. Playing sub in this larger setting is more about picking off targets that over extend or stunlocking/ccing healers around your vanish/cloak cooldown to force defensive's or finishing off priority targets that are low in a smoke bomb. All of which require pooling as you spend a shit ton of resources to achieve what you want to do, then GTFO of there and plan for your next move.

The spec slows at the start of every expansion, its just feels more jarring this time around since the artifact was providing so much energy through energetic stabbing.

Also just because its playing slower does also not mean it will be less viable than the other specs, thats a numbers thing, and hell it could quite easily be the best performing spec out of the three after tuning, it will just feels slow. I'm more happy that we have all three specs providing very different playstyles, which is a good place to be in prior to release and tuning.

[elfporn]

honestly its like playing ninja gaiden on NES that's what the rogue experience is like live, its embarrassing.

didn't you quit the game a couple years ago? or at least you said you did. And you've said you don't play now. You've also said you're quitting for bfa, but you said you're quitting for legion back before it came out too. So all this time you purportedly havn't played since before legion, yet put forth your experience and opinions like you have....

The only reason your posts are worth reading is for a good laugh. Thanks

[zaino]

Yes, and i'm playing on beta. MFD is certainly one of the new talents you want to play with, but i suggest playing with FW, SF MfD, ES and MoS. Try that combo and you will find sub very much a extreme pool and dump spec. You can pretty much go seriously ham every 30s with everything and regen it again between symbols cds it works quite well.



Subjective mate, entirely depends on the result of that pooling. I would agree that if pooling results in mediocre damage then yes it would feel pretty shitty, but as long as they tune the numbers right, the slow pooling of beta sub will feel pretty dam nice as you will be unleashing godly amounts of burst every 30s with symbols. Like i said as long as they tune it correctly. But if you do not like that playstyle, its like i said in the first place subjective.



Ok fine, maybe i should have said "drink up me hearties" is now available for all rogue specs, but my original point still stands that that now RMP will be much stronger as this is available to not just outlaw(which is rarely played in RMP(ladder not whazz)) but sub and ass. But anyways, was just getting hyped for buffs, which it is for pvp, thanks for being so negative mate, just what we all need in the community.....

I personally don’t trust blizzard with numbers turning. Will have to see what things end up as.

[elfporn]

I personally don’t trust blizzard with numbers turning. Will have to see what things end up as.

And yet, their numbers tuning has been better than ever before. We now nitpick over 10k dps when we're doing 2m+.

The method of tuning has been very lazy. applying banket buffs to classes instead of investing the time to balance abilities and fix rotations.

[Naiattavain]

wow has anyone played ninja gaiden on NES? its really the hardest game in history. ninja gaiden made you break your controller because of some parts you couldn't pass. plus the extreme frustration followed by not being able to pass the game. i mean if you guys wanna make rogue harder than i don't know you're out of touch with your player base. people want a challenge, not impossible odds to overcome. this is the rogue presentation setting the difficulty too hard it's no longer fun anymore. rotations don't pull you in or entice you to keep working up to the hard goals that player x is working to.

you guys gotta find a middle spot on performance and bring up power levels of so called abilities. there got to be some reason to keep players playing the game. why are you just interested in nerfing the class so bad that its not even entertaining anymore. people have spent time they cant get back on their rogues. it's really just a slap to the face. but will you let it continue most likely because your all over confident in your mediocre rogue presentation. it's embarrassing. guys are only adding insult to injury. this is the worst shape rogue has been in since world of warcraft release. the class is doa with shaman.

there is only one way to play rogue and that is what you guys are doing. there should be multiple ways to play rogue not just linear performance that everyone is forced to play. the label is damaged very bad there is no trust anymore. i've said what was needed i gave my feedback now its time for your listening skills to get into gear and follow through. there are number of ways to fix but that's your discretion on what to do about the problem. once you have a solution there is no problem.

only because there are a handful of talented player doesn't mean to go in and fuck with the class (there should be ways of maintaining an entertainment status; is the class fun to play?) on the given rogue class.

[Fantazma]

Anyone else see Dispatch for Assa and Find Weakness back for Sub and became EXTREMELY FUCKING EXCITED????????????????

In "theorycraft" Find Weakness is better than Gloomblade for PVP single target?

- - - Updated - - -

Rogue subtlety will enter into BFA totally weak and literally dependent on various talents to maintain an acceptable energy regen.
We go to the BFA losing countless important skills and earning almost nothing in return.
All my faith will be in patch 8.1 or 8.1.5 ....

[Critical92]

FW is stronger against plate classes and weaker against cloth.
FW helps damage inside dance and when you want to kill something. The smaller the enemys armor is the weaker it gets, because it is just 40% armor reduction.
GB is only usefull outside dance and more a sustain talent.

It all depends on the enemy team and what you want to achieve.

[Deleted]

FW will be stronger on Mail/Plate in pvp and really gravitates towards comps like RMP due to damage coming out in bursts during dance and DR windows. I cant really see gloomblade being run in arena due to its sustained nature and if you want sustained damage in your comp, you should be playing Sin.

Weaponmaster however is interesting, namely when your kill target is wearing cloth/leather thus making FW's effect significantly reduced. Lucky procs during SD could potentially provide a lot of extra burst, especially in RMP mirrors where it is generally a mage race. Having the chance to force the first block puts you at a huge advantage. If games end super quick then weaponmasters RNG will not have a chance to even out, so will be probably still worse than FW. But going into longer games, it just has the potential to win you the match by pushing free extra damage and forcing the enemy team to burn cooldowns inefficiently creating kill windows.

I guess it will all depend on how hard SS is hitting in pvp cause if it is weak then FW will probs still be better, due to it effecting finishers as well.

[Deleted]

Copied over my rogue from live and restarted the leveling, got 2 azerite pieces with the envenom trait and it feels so strong, on a boss with only 4 envenoms used it was 40-50% of my damage from abusing master assassin crit chance. This is at 111-112 level, i haven't checked if the traits scale with level or are a fixed number but i imagine its the latter and it will taper off soon but it is pretty fun right now.

Update: it does fall off, my envenoms are already doing less damage

[Varolyn]

Well sinister strike procs grant 2 cps again, so that is a really positive change for outlaw.

[Mafic]

I wouldn't call that minor to be honest lol.

That changes a lot of things and makes a talent like Weapon master a lot more interesting as an example. People complained about BFA Outlaw being slowed down too much and I think the devs agree with that or seem too.

Alacrity being nerfed ins't surprising as a lot of people were speculating or jumping ahead when it came to go to talent builds for the Rogue specs. But with the wave of tuning that will occur the next few weeks it is better to take a wait and see view.

[xZerocidex]

Well sinister strike procs grant 2 cps again, so that is a really positive change for outlaw.

That's good to hear.

Also Secret Tech is finally up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXV6BN-5dJU

[Deleted]

Which spec do you think will be stronger in the early for raiding and m+?

[shaunika123]

Which spec do you think will be stronger in the early for raiding and m+?

can we stop these questions once and for all?

noone knows before numbers tuning.

we'Ll probably not know for sure before heroic week hits.

[Deleted]

can we stop these questions once and for all?

noone knows before numbers tuning.

we'Ll probably not know for sure before heroic week hits.

But beta testers would know which spec is stronger in betta

[shaunika123]

But beta testers would know which spec is stronger in betta

but its entirely irrelevant which spec is good on beta
and we cant possibly know which will be good live.

they literally just started tuning the damage numbers

it's all a massive shitshow atm.

we wont be able to even guess what's gonna be good for another few weeks at the very least