I don't really get all the hate for SV hunters

[threads]

the whole class is turned to shit. SV turning into BM reskin, BM turning into old SV, new MM playing like a retarded version of arcane or something.

making SV melee added literally nothing to the class except good memes.

[Devilyaki]

You must not be a hunter then. Instead of making sv a good range spec they nerfed it to the ground till it was unplayable waiting for everyone to switch so the shit melee spec could snake it’s way in on a dead spec they killed cause they wanted too. If mages and warlocks can have three range specs there is no reason hunters couldn’t as well. They being the only class that use physical range weapons in the game it is stupid to make yet another melee class, and snick hunters in general don’t want to melee it’s been one of the lowest play specs, hench the stupid buffs they get to try to force people to play the useless spec.

[Mavick]

Sadly I can't help but revisiting this tired thread of people arguing about nothing.....

I mean, if you want to live in the past and wallow in self pity over a single spec that got fundamentally changed (yeah, that never happens in wow), so be it. But seriously:

Move on with your lives.

[xxcloud417xx]

I think it fills a niche and gives a purely ranged spec a viable melee option for those situations where Blizzard overtunes their goddamn raids and makes a fight overly ranged friendly or overly melee friendly. You don’t have to be that poor soul stuck doing nothing for half a phase.

Obviously this is from a Mythic standpoint, Heroic and under can just play whatever they want but this could be very useful for Mythic guilds. Rather than have to swap your main and get 5 rogues for a single dumb fight. (Yes I’m still bitter about Avatar)

I can understand the complaints about missing a certain spec playstyle you enjoyed, but looking at it objectively this versatlity is probably better for the class as a whole.

[Trollokdamus]

(yeah, that never happens in wow)

From ranged to melee? Yep, that never happens.

[Mavick]

From ranged to melee? Yep, that never happens.

Except, apparently, it does.

[Trollokdamus]

Except, apparently, it does.

Uhm, care to name a single case of this before or after the surv revamp?

[Bepples]

Except, apparently, it does.

When you wrote "a single spec that got fundamentally changed (yeah, that never happens in wow)" that implies that the degree of change that happened to Survival is a routine thing that has happened to other specs. Which it isn't. The only changes that ever came close are Demonology and Outlaw in Legion but even they still remained ranged and melee respectively. So, yes, specs going from ranged to melee is a uniquely a Survival thing. Don't play dumb; that part just comes from your normal posting.

[Huggykaze]

The best part about this thread is that most people who whine about SV being melee are the same people who happily switched to MM or BM if there was as much as 2% difference in their DPS.

[Mavick]

When you wrote "a single spec that got fundamentally changed (yeah, that never happens in wow)" that implies that the degree of change that happened to Survival is a routine thing that has happened to other specs. Which it isn't. The only changes that ever came close are Demonology and Outlaw in Legion but even they still remained ranged and melee respectively. So, yes, specs going from ranged to melee is a uniquely a Survival thing. Don't play dumb; that part just comes from your normal posting.

Speaking of dumb posting, there's a pretty big gulf between something that never happens and something that happens routinely. It should be easy to note my phrasing there and the implication you're trying to associate to me is simply your own device to take issue with what I said.

I also never tried to excuse or make some kind of judgement on how big a change survival was compared to others, because it's a pretty futile sticking point. The main gist of what I was trying to communicate is the absurdity of people like yourself that just refuse to stop bitching about something that was done a while back now and likely is never going to change. As much as you hate it, I'm sorry but some people, however small a portion of the community they may be, do like it. And in some ways there's some logic to it.

The only purpose to this thread is for people like yourself to continue making the same gripes over and over with new challengers occasionally rising to the call. It's a stupid bitchfest, and basically pointless.

[Valoran]

I think a lot of you are missing how much melee swings contribute to our overall damage. I find that melee "white damage" swings (henceforth I'll call it privilege damage), makes up roughly 5-10% of my overall damage done. This is what really makes this a melee spec, especially when you're low on focus and kill command/bomb is on cooldown. We rely on privilege damage to fill in the gaps where we have no focus to raptor strike, and our main damage dealers are on cooldown. If you run out of melee range and decide to try to play as ranged, good luck competing with BM or MM; it's just not going to happen.

I'm a white dude, for the record, so I really get the most out of that privilege damage.

[Deleted]

The best part about this thread is that most people who whine about SV being melee are the same people who happily switched to MM or BM if there was as much as 2% difference in their DPS.

Finally the truth in this thread!

[HitRefresh]

Yeah, I will argue that 2 melee skills doesnt make melee spec ;p

Yeah I guess Ret wasn't a melee spec because it had Judgement as its only melee skill. If you even consider it being a melee skill, being semi-ranged spell damage.

[Luko]

We all liked the old survival spec because it was braindead and satisfying. Massive dot spreading and explosions for aoe, simple proc and dot tracking for ST. So sure it was fun, but let's not pretend like we're missing some amazingly unique spec now that it's melee. This closed-minded crap is why blizzard never tries anything new.

The new survival is wonderful and a godsend for those of us who rolled the class to be like some of our favorite hunters in lore who are primarily represented as melee fighters. Besides, it's 2018, who cares about MMO raiding performance anymore?

[Appelgren]

We all liked the old survival spec because it was braindead and satisfying. Massive dot spreading and explosions for aoe, simple proc and dot tracking for ST. So sure it was fun, but let's not pretend like we're missing some amazingly unique spec now that it's melee. This closed-minded crap is why blizzard never tries anything new.

The new survival is wonderful and a godsend for those of us who rolled the class to be like some of our favorite hunters in lore who are primarily represented as melee fighters. Besides, it's 2018, who cares about MMO raiding performance anymore?

Thank you! Glad to see there are still reasonable people on these forums. Agree 100%

[Deleted]

Yeah I guess Ret wasn't a melee spec because it had Judgement as its only melee skill. If you even consider it being a melee skill, being semi-ranged spell damage.

yeah totaly diffrent matter and not a minimum brain activty about what i was talking. Hunters were ranged spec till legion no matter how many skills they have before...

[Huggykaze]

yeah totaly diffrent matter and not a minimum brain activty about what i was talking. Hunters were ranged spec till legion no matter how many skills they have before...

And Disc priests were shield-based healers, not DPS-Healer hybrids. I don't see them losing their shit over changed gameplay mechanics. Basically, what used to be is not a valid argument.

[Bepples]

I think it fills a niche and gives a purely ranged spec a viable melee option for those situations where Blizzard overtunes their goddamn raids and makes a fight overly ranged friendly or overly melee friendly. You don’t have to be that poor soul stuck doing nothing for half a phase

Firstly, this is pretty much never applicable to ranged specs. The vast majority of fights in this game prefer more ranged to melee and being able to go melee instead is almost never a useful ability. And by "almost never" I mean that I'm pretty sure Gul'Dan is possibly the only time it's ever been the case.

Secondly, if we wanted to be melee at any point we would roll to one of the multitude of better, more established, and more thematically-sound melee specs in the game. There are only 2 specs in the game right now that use ranged weapons while there are 13 that use melee weapons. It's insanity to pretend that we needed a Hunter spec to be melee in that environment while Mage and Warlock are still perfectly well off being purely ranged and Rogue being purely melee.

Your post really comes off as grasping at straws to make having a melee spec look like much more of a positive than it actually is. If you think that's not true, consider that the overwhelming majority of raiding Hunters through all of Legion played little to no Survival and it was of absolutely no detriment. Clearly it can't be that useful if that's the case. Meanwhile, there have been plenty of situations where a ranged multidotter was extremely helpful (e.g. Coven) and Survival being melee means we are no longer able to fulfil that niche.

The best part about this thread is that most people who whine about SV being melee are the same people who happily switched to MM or BM if there was as much as 2% difference in their DPS.

Got any more baseless assumptions to shit out into the thread?

Speaking of dumb posting, there's a pretty big gulf between something that never happens and something that happens routinely. It should be easy to note my phrasing there and the implication you're trying to associate to me is simply your own device to take issue with what I said.

So why did you write "(yeah, that never happens in wow)"? Just an utterly pointless statement about how Survival being totally replaced by a melee spec is a self-normalising act? The only reasonable conclusion to make when someone reads that is that you slipped that in to paint people like me as unreasonable with a sarcastic comment implying that it is in fact something that does happen in WoW. Don't even try to backpedal from that. If you think that's putting words in your mouth by all means tell me what you really meant when you posted it. Although I'd imagine if you really had something substantive to say on that you would have said it already.

I also never tried to excuse or make some kind of judgement on how big a change survival was compared to others, because it's a pretty futile sticking point. The main gist of what I was trying to communicate is the absurdity of people like yourself that just refuse to stop bitching about something that was done a while back now and likely is never going to change. As much as you hate it, I'm sorry but some people, however small a portion of the community they may be, do like it. And in some ways there's some logic to it.

Oh, get over yourself. By attacking the people opposed to the change you are defending the change whether you like it or not. If you are really neutral on this issue and came here only to tone police you should realise how truly pathetic that is: you're not the benevolent almighty discussion moderator you think you are and this discussion doesn't need your input. This sort of cowardly shadow-defence of Blizzard's shitty design decisions wherever it pops up is detestable. If you are going to grovel for Blizzard at least have the balls to stand up for their position instead of playing the enlightened centrist who merely "sees the merit" behind their direction.

Also, "never going to change"? It already has. Despite tone police like you trying to snuff out the ranged Survival folks over the past 2 years the spec was remade again in BfA, just 1 expansion after the melee change, to have a ton of ranged aspects and even an ability from ranged Survival itself (including the ranged weapon) and the selling point of the spec has shifted to "It's ranged!.... sorta". You think that result in melee Survival's second expansion signals a lack of progress and a reason to give up for people like me? It's the opposite. It's the signal that we can make Blizzard compromise and we should keep the pressure up and that's what I intend on doing. You might think that's pointless but that's your own stupid opinion.

We all liked the old survival spec because it was braindead and satisfying. Massive dot spreading and explosions for aoe, simple proc and dot tracking for ST. So sure it was fun, but let's not pretend like we're missing some amazingly unique spec now that it's melee. This closed-minded crap is why blizzard never tries anything new.

Don't speak for why people liked old Survival, please, because you are clearly either completely uninformed of why people like it or you are deliberately trying to portray us in a negative light (I'm leaning towards a mixture of the two but mostly the latter). Also, lol @ implying the new Survival is not braindead. Look at the baseline SV gameplay in BfA. It's easier than BM now, for crying out loud. At least you had LnL procs and even multidotting to manage as ranged Survival.

I realise you will probably cower away and avoid responding like you always do, but dismantling your arguments here is important for showing how baseless they are to the other readers.

The new survival is wonderful and a godsend for those of us who rolled the class to be like some of our favorite hunters in lore who are primarily represented as melee fighters. Besides, it's 2018, who cares about MMO raiding performance anymore?

"Some of" = implying there is more than one, that one also being extremely poorly represented by Survival and actually much closer to BM. What about the poisoned/exotic munitions Hunter like Sylvanas? That's the fucking Warchief, not some irrelevant BC quest mob dragged back into relevance to excuse a melee Hunter.

But yes, I'm sure it was a godsend for all 5 of you.

Finally the truth in this thread!

Thank you! Glad to see there are still reasonable people on these forums. Agree 100%

There are few things more pathetic than wasting bandwidth by leaving useless "this" replies. It's also against the MMO-champion rules. I'd like to see both of you actually man up and make/defend the arguments yourselves. In particular, @Appelgren, I want to see you argue your case for why BM and MM should not have traps which is a position you ardently held in the past. That should be fun to see again.

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And Disc priests were shield-based healers, not DPS-Healer hybrids. I don't see them losing their shit over changed gameplay mechanics. Basically, what used to be is not a valid argument.

Actually, that change caused massive friction in that community and led to the spec being in a very bad shape for the first half of Legion and largely abandoned in favour of Holy. Not the best example for your case, was it?

What used to be is absolutely a valid argument because a) you can't rebuild a spec's identity and familiarity and catch up on a decade of iterative class design overnight and b) all the same arguments in favour of the earlier design still hold.

You seem like the type of person who believes in change for the sake of change. You need to understand that while change isn't automatically bad it isn't automatically good either. You need to show why the current SV direction is better than the old direction to actually justify the change instead of ranting about people not blindly accepting whatever happens with class design.

[threads]

The best part about this thread is that most people who whine about SV being melee are the same people who happily switched to MM or BM if there was as much as 2% difference in their DPS.

ya it's called being flexible and having 3 specs to choose from. how many people consider SV an option since legion? it was the best spec at one point and hardly anyone swapped to it at all. sounds like a loss to me.

[Mavick]

So why did you write "(yeah, that never happens in wow)"? Just an utterly pointless statement about how Survival being totally replaced by a melee spec is a self-normalising act? The only reasonable conclusion to make when someone reads that is that you slipped that in to paint people like me as unreasonable with a sarcastic comment implying that it is in fact something that does happen in WoW. Don't even try to backpedal from that. If you think that's putting words in your mouth by all means tell me what you really meant when you posted it. Although I'd imagine if you really had something substantive to say on that you would have said it already.



Oh, get over yourself. By attacking the people opposed to the change you are defending the change whether you like it or not. If you are really neutral on this issue and came here only to tone police you should realise how truly pathetic that is: you're not the benevolent almighty discussion moderator you think you are and this discussion doesn't need your input. This sort of cowardly shadow-defence of Blizzard's shitty design decisions wherever it pops up is detestable. If you are going to grovel for Blizzard at least have the balls to stand up for their position instead of playing the enlightened centrist who merely "sees the merit" behind their direction.

Also, "never going to change"? It already has. Despite tone police like you trying to snuff out the ranged Survival folks over the past 2 years the spec was remade again in BfA, just 1 expansion after the melee change, to have a ton of ranged aspects and even an ability from ranged Survival itself (including the ranged weapon) and the selling point of the spec has shifted to "It's ranged!.... sorta". You think that result in melee Survival's second expansion signals a lack of progress and a reason to give up for people like me? It's the opposite. It's the signal that we can make Blizzard compromise and we should keep the pressure up and that's what I intend on doing. You might think that's pointless but that's your own stupid opinion.

But you are unreasonable, and the issue you're trying to make out of my word choice literally proves that. Fundamental spec changes is a pretty normal thing for this game at this point, regardless of move from ranged to melee.

Further, the way you're painting my telling people like you to shut the fuck over it as me being some kind of white knight for blizzard is another example of you being unreasonable. I'm not particularly a fan of it being melee either, but as I said, I get it. And I'm not going to rush to the forums to whine about it every time a forum thread for it pops up.