The Butchery of Survival in BFA

[aikanaro]

Ah yes "Marksman in everything but name" Was a fun time.

Oh wait, All three specs playing almost exactly the same is why MM or Survival suffered every time each other simmed higher than the other.

Lol.. no.. mm and surv have been completely different since the wotlk pre patch. Regardless.. right now your hunter options are... I'm a mage (caster), I (emphasis on the I) do no dmg and feel weak because my pet does all the dmg, or melee... now the difference between Marksmanship and survival when they were both ranged was that Marksmanship was more hard-hitting abilities while survival had instant abilities and consistent damage. You can argue that they were both ranged sure but the difference to me is night and day. It is akin to playing a warrior versus playing a rogue at the launch of this game. One felt slow because all of its abilities were on next swing except for Mortal strike which was it's only instant ability. Whereas Rogues could basically spam Sinister strike and then hit a finishing it was what more fast-paced and fun to play for people like me. I would also like to mention the in its current state you cast and shot and look at cast bars a lot of the time as Marksmanship. I hate playing Caster classes because they feel slow to me and if I wanted to play a caster I would play a mage or Warlock.

[threads]

Let's be honest with each other. The only reason you liked it was because it was better DPS than Marks, and if it was worse, you'd be playing that instead.

let's be honest. you can say this about any class with more than 1 dps spec.

[aikanaro]

So it was MM then.

Mm didnt augment arrows... lol

[Paulosio]

Not at all, I think you miss my point. I wouldn't be complaining if fundamentally, the base BfA had interactions and complexity in of itself. Imagine if Arms Warriors had to spec to get tactician for example.

That is my issue, that the bare BfA is so bare, that the talents make up every nuance of the spec instead of adding or changing the playstyle slightly. It's like half of the talents they presented are Inner Rage for Fury

Mandatory.

It's alpha and they are making major ongoing changes to the spec... why get so upset as if it's finalised. It's not even like Blizz released the info themselves as if this is how they are thinking the class should be going forward.. It's early data mined stuff which is obviously still being iterated on and which will change heavily as time goes on. The spec will likely be very different to this early data mined stuff by the time BfA comes out... The game probably isn't even out for over 6 months.

[aikanaro]

Survival is the only one that let's me have a Pet of my choosing though. Funny that.

quoted for attention.. has nothing to do with what im gonna say.

No Melee arguement rebuttal: So... keep the melee spec.. and gives us old SV back in a 4th spec... u know... like how druids have 4 specs...

SV Being too similar to MM AND class theme rebuttal: no.. it really wasnt but here.. Fine... give us throwing weapons if you are so stingy about how they all used the same weapons, lets even change it from being elemental based... Give us something akin to all the old abilities... like... instead of black arrow call it plague javelin.... instead of explosive shot, call it barbed javelin or something and make it do bleed damage... the issue here isnt the fact that there is a melee spec, its the fact we want our old gameplay back.

on a side note.. yes rexxar is melee, i like rexxar, i liked sv this expansion.. but i would play a rogue if i was going to be melee.


Iseriously rerolled this expansion and played demon hunter (over my paladin) because i like mobile tanks (best one ever was riftstalker in rift). i started to play my hunter again but BM was just boring because you had to have the shoulders or it was clunky as shit, and MM was just like playing a mage or warlock (a caster) which i dont like. i couldnt hadle it after about a month and i quit playing altogether right after tomb launched.

[Shuken]

Your logic is mainly "I want melee so fuck everyone else", which isn't really logic to begin with.

Face it. Your spec sucked and hardly anyone liked it. Crushing disapproval forced Blizzard's hand.

At least Explosive Shot Survival lasted more than one expansion



Given a choice between autism... and... whatever the hell's wrong with you... I'll take double the autism.

FpicEail, I want to thank you for perfectly representing every thought I ever had about the old survival and the new survival for the last few months. I appreciate how you logically build your arguments.

Melee survival, pruning and all the stupid things they have done in the name of class fantasy are the worst things that happened to this game IMO. Hard to believe some people bought that crap hook, line and sinker.

- - - Updated - - -

It's the least played dps spec by a huge margin. It's representation numbers are on par with Gladiator warriors and that was a talent not a spec. What did you expect them to do? Go:

"Looks good boys, no changes needed here!"

That said, these changes look horrible. Blizzard looks to once again be delivering on something no one wanted or asked for. Making it into some weird hybrid will only manage to annoy both the people who want ranged survival back and the people who enjoy the current survival.

100% agree with this.

I want ranged survival back. Game's got enough melee, and I rolled hunter to have my 3 ranged specs and have the choice to pick which one looks the most fun and plays the best at the time. Now I'm down to 2 specs. It's a downgrade for me personally. If I wanted to play melee, I'd have rolled a warrior, DK, DH, enhance, feral, etc or any class that already had a melee spec and has had one since the start. I will not play survival ever again until it's back to 100% ranged, hopefully like it was in SoO to boot, but I'm open to new ideas. I would love a dark ranger spec (fully ranged).

[Bepples]

Well in my opinion it's not, just like you're opinion, i have one.

Go back to braindead BM

Go back to one of the 12 redundant, overcrowded, and overdone melee specs.

[Bepples]

Melee hunter is staying and you cant do shit, you will never have survival as it was and now i am happy you will never be able to play it.

You have some serious personal issues i hope you work them out.

Seems like melee Survival is already half gone after just 1 expansion.

[Bepples]

It's not half gone, check the descriptions and changes.

I did. Survival is gaining a number of ranged abilities as well as a cooldown that makes their primary spender a ranged ability for the duration. Blizzard has previously stated that Survival's lack of popularity among Hunters was due to it being melee and most Hunters wanting a ranged spec and BfA Survival is a clear concession towards ranged players while also saving face on the melee aspect they promoted so much.

Even so, BfA makes it clear that they still have no fucking idea what to do with Survival. It still has a convoluted and unclear theme (much moreso than ranged SV ever had) and now they seem to be making it a simple matter of "melee BM". It's two signature abilities -- Mongoose Bite and Flanking Strike -- are now talents. At least ranged Survival held onto Explosive Shot for 4 expansions.

It really struck me when writing that last paragraph just how much better ranged Survival was than melee Survival. Melee Survival was meant to improve the theme but only made it worse than ever before. Melee Survival was supposedly meant to solidify SV's "constantly-changing theme" (which is itself a revisionist lie) but didn't even last more than one expansion before undergoing another major rework. Melee Survival was meant to re-invigorate the spec but was dead-on-arrival and stayed dead the entire expansion. I am so glad that I am not like you and I don't have to defend melee SV. It must be absolutely soul-crushing and pride-destroying to see the spec in which you had so much confidence fail so spectacularly. It must be exhausting to keep up the denial and deflect from the unwavering criticism for so long. Once again, I am grateful I'm not in that position. I almost feel bad for you. Almost.

[aikanaro]

i like how he ignored my last post which clearly states a win win for everyone... but blizz is lazy lol

[Samuraijake]

Considering it's a complete and total step backwards from what we have. I'd say the Alpha is not doing it's job.

im glad this guy is banned according to the portrait on the left.

[ninthbelief]

Would you feel better if they renamed Kill Command to something else for Survival hunters?

They already did, it's called Flanking Strike. Why we have two buttons that are the same goddamn garbage is beyond me.

I'd rather a Lone Wolf talent option for those of us who think Survival is some melee BM shit.

[Mavick]

Arguing about survival being melee or ranged at this point is really just so pointless. I too miss the old ranged survival spec, but on the other hand, there are some fights where being able to swap to melee is advantageous (Mythic Gul'dan and Aggramar really stand out here). Personally I'm planning on hopefully dual speccing either BM/MM and Survival just for this reason.

[aikanaro]

Arguing about survival being melee or ranged at this point is really just so pointless. I too miss the old ranged survival spec, but on the other hand, there are some fights where being able to swap to melee is advantageous (Mythic Gul'dan and Aggramar really stand out here). Personally I'm planning on hopefully dual speccing either BM/MM and Survival just for this reason.

and still would be solved the way druids were... with a 4th spec.... bliz should have just done it as a 4th spec in the first place..

[Mavick]

and still would be solved the way druids were... with a 4th spec.... bliz should have just done it as a 4th spec in the first place..

They have enough problems balancing us with 3 specs, to even propose this is kinda silly tbh.

[Charge me Doctor]

I did. Survival is gaining a number of ranged abilities as well as a cooldown that makes their primary spender a ranged ability for the duration. Blizzard has previously stated that Survival's lack of popularity among Hunters was due to it being melee and most Hunters wanting a ranged spec and BfA Survival is a clear concession towards ranged players while also saving face on the melee aspect they promoted so much.

Survival is not popular not because it's a melee, but because it's a melee, it does less dps and have less forgiving rotation.
It's simply less rewarding spec for more effort. Only those who really dig into the theme will stick to it (and eventually abandon it because, you know, you can't play the game and no one invites you).

I like what they are doing to survival in BfA having an option to go full-melee is nice, having serpent sting instead of lacerate - not so much.

[Sesethi]

to be fair the spec was already butchered and needlessly complicated, I believe it can only get better from what it was in Legion

[ydraw]

Survival is not popular not because it's a melee

Yes. Yes it is.

It is a melee spec in a class that people rolled because they wanted to use ranged weapons. It's actually really, really simple.

Also I should just point out once again that melee survival has been an epic failure. It's the least popular spec in the 14 year history of the game. It should be removed entirely and replaced with a ranged spec. There are already 13 Melee DPS specs in the game but only 2 that used ranged weapons.

[shaunika123]

You mean a class in an Alpha isn’t comptly and utterly done? The horror!

ah the good old

"it's only alpha dont worry"
"it's only beta don't worry"
"it's only prepatch doN't worry"
"well you shoulda said something sooner, now it's too late"

[Gegecocu]

ah the good old

"it's only alpha dont worry"
"it's only beta don't worry"
"it's only prepatch doN't worry"
"well you shoulda said something sooner, now it's too late"

well, they changed survival a lot in both legion's alpha and beta, they just didn't change it to what some people asked for.