Tinker Class Concept 2018 (long)

[Teriz]

Either they're canon, or they're not. If they "losing a spell" is canon, then them being able to pilot mechs is also canon.

Again, there's a lore basis for Warlocks to be able to perform metamorphosis. There's no lore basis for them being capable of piloting mechs, or for piloting mechs to be a wide-spread practice among non-Goblins and non-Gnomes on Azeroth.

Then so is the class piloting mechs.

Where? I'm not aware of any Warlock lore figure ever piloting a mech.

No, they don't. Again, a class can have all the coolest, flashiest abilities, but if the gameplay isn't interesting, the class won't stick with the player. I only mentioned the druid because it was my own example. Let's take a look at the monk, then: they have several 'flashy', 'cool' abilities, yet few people find its gameplay interesting.

According to this the total Monk population at level 110 is within 1-2% of the vast majority of WoW classes. I wouldn't say that's a "few" people.

[Ielenia]

Again, there's a lore basis for Warlocks to be able to perform metamorphosis. There's no lore basis for them being capable of piloting mechs, or for piloting mechs to be a wide-spread practice among non-Goblins and non-Gnomes on Azeroth.

There's also lore basis for a priest to wear plate and be able to cast a mass-resurrection spell in the middle of combat, with BfA, but I don't think we'll ever see priests being allowed to wear plate, or that spell available for priests.

Where? I'm not aware of any Warlock lore figure ever piloting a mech.

The player, who is the class, can.

According to this the total Monk population at level 110 is within 1-2% of the vast majority of WoW classes. I wouldn't say that's a "few" people.

The point still stands, you know? If someone doesn't find the class' gameplay interesting, the amount of 'flashy', 'cool-looking' abilities the class has won't be enough to hold the player's interest.

[Rudkobing]

Let's go balls deep for the tinker class!!!!!

[Speaknoevil]

Class name: ???

Artificer: Ranged DPS
Bard: Healer
Tinker: Tank

[Teriz]

There's also lore basis for a priest to wear plate and be able to cast a mass-resurrection spell in the middle of combat, with BfA, but I don't think we'll ever see priests being allowed to wear plate, or that spell available for priests.

But we did see Metamorphosis in the Warlock class. No basis was ever given lore-wise for its removal, indicating that Warlocks simply "forgot" how to use the spell.

The player, who is the class, can.

How exactly? The adventurer taking up specific professions or making/purchasing vanity items isn't based on lore either.

The point still stands, you know? If someone doesn't find the class' gameplay interesting, the amount of 'flashy', 'cool-looking' abilities the class has won't be enough to hold the player's interest.

And they'll just find flashy and cool-looking abilities in a different class.

[Ielenia]

But we did see Metamorphosis in the Warlock class. No basis was ever given lore-wise for its removal, indicating that Warlocks simply "forgot" how to use the spell.

Almost all the classes have lost abilities from expansion to expansion. Metamorphosis was no different. And again, our class is not the "be all, end all" of what a class can do in the game. Several NPCs greatly surpass

How exactly? The adventurer taking up specific professions or making/purchasing vanity items isn't based on lore either.

Source for that claim?

And they'll just find flashy and cool-looking abilities in a different class.

No, they'll look for fun, engaging gameplay in a different class.

[Teriz]

Almost all the classes have lost abilities from expansion to expansion. Metamorphosis was no different. And again, our class is not the "be all, end all" of what a class can do in the game. Several NPCs greatly surpass

Yeah, but no other class had an entire side story based on how the class obtained an ability (metamorphosis) from a villain (Illidan).

Source for that claim?

The fact that you're never addressed by your profession by any lore character. The fact that you can dump your profession at any time and face zero penalties (beyond loss of progress). The fact that you can take two professions at once.

Professions are merely a gameplay convention to keep the player occupied. It has zero to do with the overall story, or your journey as an adventurer.

No, they'll look for fun, engaging gameplay in a different class.

Based on those flashy individual abilities.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, but no other class had an entire side story based on how the class obtained an ability (metamorphosis) from a villain (Illidan).

Doesn't really matter, to be honest. You also go through several quests to attain such a "powerful artifact" (remember what you had to do to get Thunderfury? Atiesh? the MoP cloak legendary?)... that you're likely to replace with a random drop from a random mob in the next expansion.

The fact that you're never addressed by your profession by any lore character.

Except in Legion every single profession has several quests and world quests for them, that are inaccessible if you don't possess the profession.

The fact that you can dump your profession at any time and face zero penalties (beyond loss of progress). The fact that you can take two professions at once.

That you can dump your profession to take another is simply a gameplay convention. It would be a very bad thing for a game to force you to keep a profession unless you delete your character, and then make another to get a different profession.

Based on those flashy individual abilities.

No. A class can have a fun and engaging gameplay without the need of "flashy" abilities.

[Teriz]

Doesn't really matter, to be honest. You also go through several quests to attain such a "powerful artifact" (remember what you had to do to get Thunderfury? Atiesh? the MoP cloak legendary?)... that you're likely to replace with a random drop from a random mob in the next expansion.

What's your point? That's also lore-based, and unlike Metamorphosis, there's going to be a lore-based reason why you eventually lose your artifact. There has yet to be a reason given in lore as to how you lost metamorphosis. Again, this wouldn't be such an issue if there wasn't a fairly detailed story about how Warlocks got the spell in the first place.

To the point: If an entire class of heroes can "forget" how to use a major ability like metamorphosis, I'm not seeing what the big hang up is about a few no-name LF Draenei "forgetting" to pilot Warframes on Azeroth.

Except in Legion every single profession has several quests and world quests for them, that are inaccessible if you don't possess the profession.

None of which is necessary to reach end-level content unlike say your quest to obtain your artifact weapon. They're optional at best and derivative at worst. Thrall calls me Farseer. Anduin and Sylvannas calls me Shaman or Champion. Let me know when any of them calls me "Engineer", "Tailor", or "Cook".

No. A class can have a fun and engaging gameplay without the need of "flashy" abilities.

Except all the classes in WoW have flashy abilities....

[Ielenia]

What's your point? That's also lore-based, and unlike Metamorphosis, there's going to be a lore-based reason why you eventually lose your artifact. There has yet to be a reason given in lore as to how you lost metamorphosis. Again, this wouldn't be such an issue if there wasn't a fairly detailed story about how Warlocks got the spell in the first place.

I'm not talking about the Legion legendaries. I even specifically mentioned Atiesh and MoP's legendary cloak. And again, the warlock player class simply isn't allowed to cast metamorphosis anymore. Lore-wise, they still can, I believe. It's simply a gameplay concession. Just like priests are physically able to pick up a shield and/or wear a full set of plate armor, but the game system doesn't allow the player class to do it.

To the point: If an entire class of heroes can "forget" how to use a major ability like metamorphosis,

They haven't. The game system simply doesn't allow the player class to use the ability, anymore.

I'm not seeing what the big hang up is about a few no-name LF Draenei "forgetting" to pilot Warframes on Azeroth.

You're comparing apples to bricks, here. One is a purely game system design that affects the player only, the other is purely related to lore.

None of which is necessary to reach end-level content unlike say your quest to obtain your artifact weapon.

I can level up a character to max level and raid Antorus without ever unlocking my artifact weapon. All I need is to use a heirloom weapon that scales up to 110, and they do exist.

They're optional at best and derivative at worst. Thrall calls me Farseer. Anduin and Sylvannas calls me Shaman or Champion. Let me know when any of them calls me "Engineer", "Tailor", or "Cook".

"This is no natural stone, miner. It stinks of demon's blood. Where'd you find this?" Funny that my alt got this quest right before reading your post.

Except all the classes in WoW have flashy abilities....

Then saying that the player gravitates toward the flashy abilities is a moot argument, is it not? "If everyone's special, then nobody's special." I think that's how the saying goes, right?

[Rhamses]

Class name: ???

Artificer: Ranged DPS
Bard: Healer
Tinker: Tank

Artificer and Tinker work together. Bard? Not so much. Probably more likely to see something from the Goblin Alchemist hero. Artificers tend to deal with more exotic technology. It would be interesting if they found a way to merge Draenei, Arakkoa, Titan, and Legion tech with Goblin/Gnome tech into a class. However, I don't think that's possible without the class being wildly unfocused.

One of the huge shortfalls of the Engineering profession is that it doesn't deal with the more exotic tech in WoW.

[Teriz]

Artificer and Tinker work together. Bard? Not so much. Probably more likely to see something from the Goblin Alchemist hero. Artificers tend to deal with more exotic technology. It would be interesting if they found a way to merge Draenei, Arakkoa, Titan, and Legion tech with Goblin/Gnome tech into a class. However, I don't think that's possible without the class being wildly unfocused.

It certainly would be unfocused, which is why I don't think it's likely. The expansion classes tend to be very focused on specific attributes from WC3.

One of the huge shortfalls of the Engineering profession is that it doesn't deal with the more exotic tech in WoW.

Which is just one of the profession's MANY shortfalls.

[Ielenia]

One of the huge shortfalls of the Engineering profession is that it doesn't deal with the more exotic tech in WoW.

Just curious, but what is this "exotic tech"?

[Rhamses]

Just curious, but what is this "exotic tech"?

Titan, Naaru/Draenei, Arakkoa, Mogu, and Legion tech.

[Ielenia]

Titan, Naaru/Draenei, Arakkoa, Mogu, and Legion tech.

Titan tech could be excused as being too advanced to be understood, as pointed out during Ulduar where a gnome can't make head or tails how the teleporter there works. As for Mogu... they don't have really any technology. At least nothing worthwhile. The best we saw, as far as I can recall, was at the last boss of Mogu'Shan Palace, with all those arrows being shot out of the walls. The 'Naaru/Draenei' seems to be more magical than actual, true technology, considering all we see about their "technology" is magical crystals, magical crystals, and more magical crystals (magical crystals everywhere!). As for the Legion tech, yes, the profession is delving into it. The Reaves robot, for example, is Legion tech.

[Darktbs]

One of the huge shortfalls of the Engineering profession is that it doesn't deal with the more exotic tech in WoW.

Depends.

Legion questline has you dealing with Fel Reaver techonology
Warlords was lacking in content in general so i pity the Arakkoa tech side being ignored.
Draenei-not even the draenei use their techonology, it would be a miracle if anyone else used.
Mogu, they have technology?as far as i know, its either Titan or mogu Magic.

[Rhamses]

Titan tech could be excused as being too advanced to be understood, as pointed out during Ulduar where a gnome can't make head or tails how the teleporter there works.

Well that's not necessarily true. Helix Blackfuse (a goblin) and the Mogul have both repurposed Titan technology.

As for Mogu... they don't have really any technology. At least nothing worthwhile.

Anima Golems and their repurposed Titan tech found in Mogu'Shan Vaults.

The 'Naaru/Draenei' seems to be more magical than actual, true technology, considering all we see about their "technology" is magical crystals, magical crystals, and more magical crystals (magical crystals everywhere!). As for the Legion tech, yes, the profession is delving into it. The Reaves robot, for example, is Legion tech.

Weren't you just arguing with Teriz for several pages about the Draenei/Naaru Warframes? You're trying to say that those aren't tech? Also there's also the Draenei Vigiliants which are clearly robots.

Saying that Reaves is a dip into Legion tech is a bit of a stretch. The hallmark of Legion tech are destructive fel-powered devices and machines. Reaves is nothing like that. He's more like a reskinned Jeeves or Blingtron.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends.

Legion questline has you dealing with Fel Reaver techonology

I'm aware of that, but this isn't the first time we've encountered Legion tech. We should be able to construct things from it at this point. Same goes for Titan tech.

Warlords was lacking in content in general so i pity the Arakkoa tech side being ignored.

Agreed. That was a huge waste.

Draenei-not even the draenei use their techonology, it would be a miracle if anyone else used.

I'm really surprised that you guys are arguing that with the heated discussion about the Light Forged Warframe in this thread.

Mogu, they have technology?as far as i know, its either Titan or mogu Magic.

Anima Golems are distinctly Mogu tech. They're built by Architertuarlist or something.

[Ielenia]

Well that's not necessarily true. Helix Blackfuse (a goblin) and the Mogul have both repurposed Titan technology.


Anima Golems and their repurposed Titan tech found in Mogu'Shan Vaults.

It's still Titan technology. They haven't really "re-purposed" anything because the Titan tech still remains intact, only with some different programming.

Weren't you just arguing with Teriz for several pages about the Draenei/Naaru Warframes? You're trying to say that those aren't tech? Also there's also the Draenei Vigiliants which are clearly robots.

The issue about them being tech or not didn't really come into play. As for the draenei vigilants, I assume you're talking about the golems walking around Mac'Aree? If so, I'm not sure they are "clearly robots" considering the only two times (to my knowledge) where we were privy to the way they're built, they require souls. If they truly were machines, they wouldn't need souls.

Saying that Reaves is a dip into Legion tech is a bit of a stretch. The hallmark of Legion tech are destructive fel-powered devices and machines. Reaves is nothing like that. He's more like a reskinned Jeeves or Blingtron.

"I found that thingy down in Azsuna, just lying on the beach. I'm sure with a little tinkering, an engineer like you could probably get it up and running in no time.

Might even be useful against the Legion. Kind of like fighting fel with fel, heh!"
From the quest that starts you on the chain to get the Reaves' Battery schematic. So, yes, it is Legion technology.

[Illidari]

I'd be all for a tech class using "exotic" tech. An artificer that is a mix of a tinker and archeologist.

[Teriz]

I'd be all for a tech class using "exotic" tech. An artificer that is a mix of a tinker and archeologist.

Not likely. The WC3 hero was utilizing Goblin tech, and the HotS hero utilizes some forms of Gnome tech.

- - - Updated - - -

It's still Titan technology. They haven't really "re-purposed" anything because the Titan tech still remains intact, only with some different programming.

The game itself says that they repurposed the tech.

The issue about them being tech or not didn't really come into play.

That's interesting. So you honestly don't believe that the Lightforged Warframes are an example of Naaru/Draenei tech when they're called "machines" in-game?

Might even be useful against the Legion. Kind of like fighting fel with fel, heh!"[/I]
From the quest that starts you on the chain to get the Reaves' Battery schematic. So, yes, it is Legion technology.

@Rhamses point still stands though; Legion tech is oretty much nonexistent outside of Reaves.