Burning of Teldressil Broadcast Text (Spoiler!!!)

[Combatbutler]

No one said the Horde races have no power, but those are definitely eclipsed by Alliance characters lore-wise.

Malfurion, for example, in his spirit form defeated Xavius who were empowered by both the Well of Eternity and Sargeras, and later on almost single-handedly drown "everyone and everything" in battle between the NE force and the Legion during WoTA when he was angry. He summoned a storm so powerful and catastrophic that he couldn't even believed to be his doing at first, and thought that was Deathwing with the Dragon Soul's magic. It lasted 3 days, drove even the Legion demons away. That happened when he was relatively new to druidism. In the more recent "Stormrage" novel, Malfurion drained power of druids inside the Emerald Dream, and once again summoned a storm that made even Azeroth trembled, and was described that "There had been on Azeroth no sound like it. A hundred volcanoes could not match it. All the combined storms throughout history could not come even close to its fantastic power"

So tell me, without PiS, how would the Horde counter that? None of the druid - Alliance or Horde - even come close to Malfurion in term of power. It's understandable that Malfurion suffer PiS in-game so he wouldn't be solo-ing one threat after another, but lore-wise, I think it's pretty fair to question why doesn't he just do that and end whatever army burned Teldrassil down.

This here is a problem, since it is the knaakified Malfurion, never again did he display such raw power, it shouldn't be forgotten that malfurion actually lost in a straight up fight against the shade of Xavius. Knaak broke the character with ihs ridiculous levels of power and as a result he is being utterly neutered, since he is so unbelievable powerful, I wouldn't be surprised if they kill him off to be honest, because he was written in a corner a long time ago.

[Edgeta]

All this talk of the power (lore-wise) of alliance heroes has got me thinking...what the horde really needs is a resurrected (as an undead) Arthas.

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This here is a problem, since it is the knaakified Malfurion, never again did he display such raw power, it shouldn't be forgotten that malfurion actually lost in a straight up fight against the shade of Xavius. Knaak broke the character with ihs ridiculous levels of power and as a result he is being utterly neutered, since he is so unbelievable powerful, I wouldn't be surprised if they kill him off to be honest, because he was written in a corner a long time ago.

Pretty much my thought; basically the same as they did with Rhonin.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And Valsharah had nothing to do with the Alliance. Just because they are Night Elves doesn't make them Alliance.

And Cata had Thrall for the entire expansion.

T They also kill a bunch of human paladins in the Paladin order hall. Again *more* bs.

All irrelevant when thrall, a Horde hero, killed him

Goblins fill that role.

they didn't lose shit. They got to keep everything they stole from the Alliance and the Alliance didn't even get the satisfaction of destroying the Horde.
Khadgar isnt' an Alliance hero. Neither is Maiev. Neither is Odyn. Malfurion hasn't been flagged Alliance ever, so he's not Alliance as well. Tyrande is and it would've been better not having her there at all than how she showed up. You aren't going to win this argument. At the end of the day Alliance and horde players in LEGION both got what they wanted, which was defeating the Legion. Velen being there for Argus was not half as important than Illidan, but who the fuck else would be there? Thrall? Lorthemar?
the horde has never been a punching bag in the story at any point in the entire history of WoW. Why do you think Horde players here are so fucking excited over characters like Garrosh and Sylvanas? They get what they want, ONCE again in the story: killing Alliance and getting to see Alliance things destroyed. Devs are so are up their own horde loving asses they can't see or more likely opt to ignore the fact that Alliance players want to kill Horde as much as Horde wants to kill Alliance. thus far it's YET to happen. We don't even get to have our vengeance, we have to fucking share a 'Conqueror' title with a 'Liberator' title. Ever wonder how Garrosh isn't considered crazy by Horde fans but someone on the Alliance who wishes to do to the Horde what Garrosh sought to do to the Alliance is *always* labeled as crazy? Think about it for a bit. The Horde player gets what they want. The Alliance player gets told to shut the fuck up and enjoy the second fiddle. That is why the Alliance has never gone on the offencive, never took the fight to the Horde proper, never nuked a Horde city, never burned a Horde zone to the ground and never will because those who write the story would never let their poor widdle horde suffer like that.

Right because Valsharah had some night elves in it and Velen lead the fight on Argus (from behind Illidan). and fucking Death Knights lead an attack to free Koltira. You know Horde death knights do that quest too, right? really bloody weak.
If horde fans on this forum AREN'T looking forward to the expansion with frothing admiration at once again getting to kill the Alliance whilst the Alliance bends over and takes it to save teh world, then maybe you'll have a point. I'm yet to see that in ANY fucking expansion focused on a faction war. Like Cata, MoP and this upcoming shitstorm BfA (Blizz Fucks Alliance).

We follow two alliance hero’s in valsharah with Jarod and Tyranda if could argue three of you doubt malf, not comparable to High mountain.

Already said cata was horse favoured.

The humans in the pally order hall are not alliance if any thing they would be agent dawn members.

What you want to have happend to garrosh is irrelevant.

The horde also lost about half of its orc fighting power.

Your childish grudges about wanting to kill horde isn’t relevant. The alliance also did go on the offensive in stormheim.

Koltira was also shown to be more loyal to his human friend then he was the horde and after breaking out has pretty much left the horde comptly.

Either way I’m done with this discussion, the fact that you don’t even the context of theses events or who is part of what faction like the argentdawn means this won’t go any where.

[Qualia]

All this talk of the power (lore-wise) of alliance heroes has got me thinking...what the horde really needs is a resurrected (as an undead) Arthas.

As long as Sylvanas is around, all a resurrected Arthas (especially without his Helm and Frostmourne now) could do for the Horde is to become her target practice so she could vent all her pent-up hatred =p

[Lorgar Aurelian]

As a Night Elf fan I really don't know why should I continue play this game. Blizzard really left no reason for me. Since Cata every time they saw an opportunity they ruined the Night Elves, even in the moments that they supposed to shine. I do not know what personal issues they have with the Night Elves but they are pushing it excessively and it is becoming intolerable. I guess BfA is going to be the last expansion for many Night Elf fans.

I’m hoping this will push the night elfs to stop being hippies, I like the race but don’t care for the Druid/priest thing id much rather staghelm been leading and going all out war then have malf or tyranda going on about trees and there moon goddess.

[Mehrunes]

No one said the Horde races have no power, but those are definitely eclipsed by Alliance characters lore-wise.

Malfurion, for example, in his spirit form defeated Xavius who were empowered by both the Well of Eternity and Sargeras, and later on almost single-handedly drown "everyone and everything" in battle between the NE force and the Legion during WoTA when he was angry. He summoned a storm so powerful and catastrophic that he couldn't even believed to be his doing at first, and thought that was Deathwing with the Dragon Soul's magic. It lasted 3 days, drove even the Legion demons away. That happened when he was relatively new to druidism. In the more recent "Stormrage" novel, Malfurion drained power of druids inside the Emerald Dream, and once again summoned a storm that made even Azeroth trembled, and was described that "There had been on Azeroth no sound like it. A hundred volcanoes could not match it. All the combined storms throughout history could not come even close to its fantastic power"

So tell me, without PiS, how would the Horde counter that? None of the druid - Alliance or Horde - even come close to Malfurion in term of power. It's understandable that Malfurion suffer PiS in-game so he wouldn't be solo-ing one threat after another, but lore-wise, I think it's pretty fair to question why doesn't he just do that and end whatever army burned Teldrassil down.

(And that's just Malfurion, we haven't addressed Velen and the Vindicaar yet)

And he had plenty more situations when he was not nearly as strong. Including Legion when he was captured by the mere Shade of Xavius. Something tells me Blizzard's writers retconned his power away, like they purged most other story aspects tainted by Knaak. Also, Thrall at his height survived being split into elemental forms, lifted the weight of Azeroth on his shoulders while Deathwing tormented him and somehow became an Aspect. Velen has been overblown forever. The first case of him performing any combat feats was 7.2. Where he did what? Smite Kruul with Holy magic and it was super effective because Holy magic vs demons. He stood his ground against KJ for a while because he was always adept at shields. Then in 7.3 he smote Talgath. And Vindicaar will continue to be unaddressed in story just as Sunwell is.

[Varx]

Funny how Alliance fan boys forget who started this war all from a misunderstanding from the Alliance. If you look back after sylvanas called the retreat at the broken shore and the Alliance foolishly thought they were betrayed due to their hatred, Genn used this to cause an unprovoked attack on sylvanas in stormheim. After that, sylvanas has every right to defend the Horde by any means necessary. Just like how America bombed Nagasaki and heroshima after pearl harbor. So enough with Horde is evil BS, in war everyone is evil.

Ironic, sylvanas saved Azeroth by calling the retreat while Genn basically fucked Azeroth by bombing her fleet at the start of legion and think she's the evil one

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If Malfurion dies, then I can totally see Maiev returning to night elven society. It would open up space for a militant and militaristic/aggressive persona such as hers.

I don’t see them ever letting maiev back in after wolf heart. I’d like Jarod to take over and militarize it though.

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They won't do that out of gameplay convenience though. Imagine if the Alliance had a character capable of that within the MMO. If anything, a proper compensation and counterweight to this is to at least let him live and sleep in whichever den he usually crawls into to sleep as it would justify the absence of such a reaction to the burning of Teldrassil. Anything else is a huge dump on the lore.

The alliance leaders already flat out over power the horde ones I don’t see the problem.

[Qualia]

And he had plenty more situations when he was not nearly as strong. Including Legion when he was captured by the mere Shade of Xavius. Something tells me Blizzard's writers retconned his power away, like they purged most other story aspects tainted by Knaak. Also, Thrall at his height survived being split into elemental forms, lifted the weight of Azeroth on his shoulders while Deathwing tormented him and somehow became an Aspect.

Indeed, in-game, Malfurion appeared nowhere near as powerful as he was in the novel. That's why I said he (understandably) was suffering PiS so that we have a story more than "Malfurion got mad and end the threat". It's a fair point from a meta point of view. However, lore-wise, unlike Thrall, he hasn't been stated to grow weaker or lost his power yet. So he should still be powerful, just that he forgets / doesn't want to use his power like every other cases of PiS, not too different from KJ and Archimonde who can destroy a planet with a ritual prepared in a few moment, yet never show any sign of doing so in-game even when the alternative was losing and / or dying.

Still, PiS aside as it's technically not a lore factor, it should be fair to question why hasn't Malfurion done what he did again.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Horde players will love Sylv burning down Teldrassil. It's cool and edgy.

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Hell of a book

Written by Golden

does not compute

What’s wrong with golden? Tides of war was pretty good.

[Projectmars]

Funny how Alliance fan boys forget who started this war all from a misunderstanding from the Alliance. If you look back after sylvanas called the retreat at the broken shore and the Alliance foolishly thought they were betrayed due to their hatred, Genn used this to cause an unprovoked attack on sylvanas in stormheim. After that, sylvanas has every right to defend the Horde by any means necessary. Just like how America bombed Nagasaki and heroshima after pearl harbor. So enough with Horde is evil BS, in war everyone is evil.

Ironic, sylvanas saved Azeroth by calling the retreat while Genn basically fucked Azeroth by bombing her fleet at the start of legion and think she's the evil one

Well, Sylvannas did make a pact with Helya to enslave the queen of the Val'kyr... She's definitely not good either.

[Edgeta]

As long as Sylvanas is around, all a resurrected Arthas (especially without his Helm and Frostmourne now) could do for the Horde is to become her target practice so she could vent all her pent-up hatred =p

For the record I was only half-serious about Arthas, although I do think it could work if done correctly. It's time for Sylvanas to go anyways. As much as her character has more depth than most, bitter people with a thirst for vengeance don't make good political leaders, or at least not long-lasting ones. In the same way Genn would never be a good leader for the alliance. Both factions kind of have the same issue right now, neither really has a leader who is well balanced enough to handle both wartime and peace.

Horde
Sylvanas - too aggressive
Baine - too passive
Rokhan - not enough lore for a good critique
Gallywix - too greedy
Lor'themar - Who?
Ji - too impulsive
Saurfang - IMO the only good option for a horde leader, good mix of diplomat/general but Blizzard seems to be against using him, we'll see in BfA.

Alliance
Anduin - too passive
Genn - too aggressive
Tyrande - book-wise she actually seemed like a good leader, game-wise she comes across as incompetant
Three hammers - seriously they cant even get a single leader for themselves, let alone the whole alliance
Mekkatorque - engineers don't make good leaders, too busy tinkering.
Velen - too passive (not counting against demons)
Aysa - too passive/cautious

As much as many people hate both of them for other reasons, both Thrall and Varian (once he calmed his inner beast at least) had that mix of diplomat/assertiveness that make a well-balance leader.

[Deleted]

I don't know why but Nathanos is becoming more and more... shady in my eyes.

[Combatbutler]

I don't know why but Nathanos is becoming more and more... shady in my eyes.

Nathanos has always been far more ruthless and cruel than Sylvanas herself, so it is natural that he appears shady.

[Friendlyimmolation]

For the record I was only half-serious about Arthas, although I do think it could work if done correctly. It's time for Sylvanas to go anyways. As much as her character has more depth than most, bitter people with a thirst for vengeance don't make good political leaders, or at least not long-lasting ones. In the same way Genn would never be a good leader for the alliance. Both factions kind of have the same issue right now, neither really has a leader who is well balanced enough to handle both wartime and peace.

Horde
Sylvanas - too aggressive
Baine - too passive
Rokhan - not enough lore for a good critique
Gallywix - too greedy
Lor'themar - Who?
Ji - too impulsive
Saurfang - IMO the only good option for a horde leader, good mix of diplomat/general but Blizzard seems to be against using him, we'll see in BfA.

Alliance
Anduin - too passive
Genn - too aggressive
Tyrande - book-wise she actually seemed like a good leader, game-wise she comes across as incompetant
Three hammers - seriously they cant even get a single leader for themselves, let alone the whole alliance
Mekkatorque - engineers don't make good leaders, too busy tinkering.
Velen - too passive (not counting against demons)
Aysa - too passive/cautious

As much as many people hate both of them for other reasons, both Thrall and Varian (once he calmed his inner beast at least) had that mix of diplomat/assertiveness that make a well-balance leader.

People joke a bout Lor'themar, but he's just basically Saurfang if he was an elf and you drained the urge for honor every five seconds out of him.

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Nathanos has always been far more ruthless and cruel than Sylvanas herself, so it is natural that he appears shady.

This too, People don't seem to realize most Forsaken are more cruel than Sylvanas.

[Deleted]

No one said the Horde races have no power, but those are definitely eclipsed by Alliance characters lore-wise.

Malfurion, for example, in his spirit form defeated Xavius who were empowered by both the Well of Eternity and Sargeras, and later on almost single-handedly drown "everyone and everything" in battle between the NE force and the Legion during WoTA when he was angry. He summoned a storm so powerful and catastrophic that he couldn't even believed to be his doing at first, and thought that was Deathwing with the Dragon Soul's magic. It lasted 3 days, drove even the Legion demons away. That happened when he was relatively new to druidism. In the more recent "Stormrage" novel, Malfurion drained power of druids inside the Emerald Dream, and once again summoned a storm that made even Azeroth trembled, and was described that "There had been on Azeroth no sound like it. A hundred volcanoes could not match it. All the combined storms throughout history could not come even close to its fantastic power"

So tell me, without PiS, how would the Horde counter that? None of the druid - Alliance or Horde - even come close to Malfurion in term of power. It's understandable that Malfurion suffer PiS in-game so he wouldn't be solo-ing one threat after another, but lore-wise, I think it's pretty fair to question why doesn't he just do that and end whatever army burned Teldrassil down.

(And that's just Malfurion, we haven't addressed Velen and the Vindicaar yet)

Malfurion isn't immune to any silence magic though. What you describe as powerful is just bad writing and incompetent enemy's. Which is always the problem with Lore Villains. Also, its never a good idea to make characters that powerful.

Its is Lore though, also empowered by people like Knaak, who're just incompetent. Blizzard could and would empower another or more characters of the Horde though, if they would use this kind of empowered Malfurion from the novels in the game. And they have characters who could challenge him their own way. Sylvanas as a Banshee could silence his magic with her Banshee Scream, Rommath is a potential character who, as a Blood Elf Mage, could become immensely powerful. Even a warrior character like Baine, as much as i despise him, could rip Malfurion apart if he gets his hands on him. But i would prefer to bring Malfurion down to the level of other Hero characters. Also powerful doesn't mean unbeatable. Khadghar defeated Deathwing through wits and with a small, single spell, which came in very handy in that moment. The only reason Malfurion isn't a victim of that kind of story telling is that he is a hero. But we also don't have very many duels between prominent Horde - and Alliance characters. We don't even know the true strength of most of these characters yet. Which is a shame. These kind of duels would be good for novels and especially cinematics in the game itself.

I don't know why Velen should be this powerful. He seems to be on the level off Illidan and Khadghar in Legion and he has powerful Light abilities who protect and heal, but doesn't seem too strong in regards to offense, tankiness and physical strength. Illidan and Khadgar, and Velen as well are all very strong of course. But i wouldn't say they're so powerful, that the Horde has no one in their ranks who could challenge and stop them. With that logic, Alleria would have to be able to solo Rommath, Lor'themar Who Theron and Liadrin together with Thalyssra, Silgryn and Valtrois, because she took in the Void Powers of a fallen Naaru. Which didn't happen and it wasn't, because she could have done it if she wanted too, but because Lorthemar and the others have abilities we just don't know yet. Lorthemar also faced Jaina on the Isle of Thunder, although everyone wondered how he would ever cope against her powerwise. But Blizzard seems to think, that he is comparable, or they wouldn't have done the confrontation / comparison in that way in my opinion.

The Vindicaar is overrated. It became unstoppable because we players are unbeatable and were able to recreate the Crown of the Triumvirate (or has this Artifact another name, not sure at the moment), which makes the ship very powerful. But without our help, the Army of the Light and the Draenei of the Exodar accomplished very little. It was stated, that Sargeras had already defeated the Naaru, so Kil'jaeden and Archimonde didn't even consider them a threat until Legion, where they came out of hiding and were succesful because we helped him.

The Draenei from the Exodar and Velen got hopelessly defeated by Kael'thas' Blood Elf Army, who stormed Tempest Keep without much of a problem. And there was a Naaru too. The Draenei had to flee into the Exodar, which is kind of an Äquivalent of the Vindicaar, just with less weaponary, which got sabotaged by the Blood Elves. Who says the Blood Elves of the Horde, now even stronger in numbers compared to Kael'thas' Army (although probably less dangerous / powerful on an individual level) and with Nightborne as allies, who have the most powerful teleportation magic on Azeroth it seems, at least so far, can't storm the Vindicaar too. The Lightforged and Exodar Draenei have not shown any strenght feats on their own that would suggest, that the Vindicaar is an impregnable flying fortress. It looks as powerful, because we as the players are / were using it. So of course it cannot fail. If Legion would have been an RTS game like WC 3 or TFT, you could bet that the Legion would have had even more powerful "toys".

I just disagree with statements like "The Vindicaar could one shot Silvermoon / Orgrimmar etc etc", like the Horde could do nothing against it. Or that Malfurion would be unbeatable, as if that is a total fact. The point is, most of the Horde characters, except Thrall, we didn't even see in situations Malfurion faced until this point. So they're a big question mark compared to some alliance characters. Which also means the Horde should get some attention in that regard.

In the end, we have weird or bad story telling from Blizzards side, which is the problem.

[Mehrunes]

Only if it involves the genocide of Horde races. Otherwise it would be insufficient. I'm rather tired of the Alliance taking the 'high road' to defeat. If there is going to be any enjoyment in this god awful expansion it needs to come at the genocide of trolls, orcs and the forsaken crust that keeps pretending it has a use on the planet.

When did the Alliance take the high road to defeat? They always took the stupid road to defeat, where they either spread their forces atom-thin or started fights in places with no supply lines.

And the Alliance refusing to use a similar weapon on every horde city shithole in return is cowardice on behalf of the Horde loving writers of this franchise.

Nothing to do with the fact that the Horde had a headstart in mining Azerite, or that after Alliance got involved fights broke out in the region making mining harder, or the fact that Silithus is more easily accessed by the Horde.

the Alliance aren't the 'good guys' they are the 'dumb guys'. They are the ones who'd insist on coming together and then lay down their (worthless) lives to save the world from the 'threats that would end the entire world' so that the horde can stab them in the back and steal their lands for themselves. if the Alliance were the 'good guys' they'd execute the leadership of the horde dissolve the faction once and for all.

And when exactly did the Horde stab the Alliance back when the factions came together? If you say Broken Shore when you get unbanned, allow me to laugh in your face preemptively. And when did they have the opportunity to execute Horde's leaders? It sure as fuck was not in SoO, because without Malfurion present (even as neutered as he was over the years), the Horde leaders there outpowered the Alliance ones.

So what? The Alliance did the same, more or less for those who wanted retaliation for Ashenvale. That was the entire arc of the Druids of the Flame.

Except there was no exile involved in the backstory of the Druids of the Flame. They were just pissed off at Malfurion for being too passive.

Blizzard definitely doesn't favour the Horde, and CNN definitely isn't pushing a leftist agenda. No way, fair and balanced.

Ah, you're one of those people. That actually explains things. Meanwhile in the realm world: US, leftist, pick one. Also, CNN is indeed balanced in its reporting and fairly centrist in general. It's only communist rag in the minds of geniuses like you, who drank too much McCarthy-aid and believe anything left of Breitbart is basically Stalin's memoirs. The same people complaining about CNN say that even BBC and AP are leftist.

Sticking Horde to the trees to rot would make me very happy. But it's so unAlliance it will never happen.

Given how the opposite won't happen either because *shock* it's an MMO, why are you using this to fuel your railing about HORDE BIAS COVFEFE?

MoP = Horde gets to keep everything they stole under Garrosh's leadership by turning against him at the last minute.

Because the Darkspear Rebellion was Horde's cobelligerent in the end. The same reason why Italy wasn't shafted by Treaty of Versailles because they swapped sides. And what did they "steal"? They conquered land in a war Alliance started. And one that Alliance was losing until the rebellion happened. Even then, all they got was kicking Alliance out of Lordaeron, with Forsaken creating a successor state to it and having infinitely more rights to it than the Alliance. With the conflict in the region happening since Vanilla and the only confirmed case (Ambermill) was started by the Alliance. Other than that, Azshara. Which was a cursed shithole to the Night Elves.

Neither did Legion for the most part.

Legion had the largest cases of bias in this game's history (the biggest being zone imbalance that Cata fixed). It gave us the only patch in WoW's run that had a faction-specific story, but only for one faction. You not only brushing it under the carped with short remark of "for the most part", but downplaying it like this as well is just dishonest horseshit. Because everyone knows the only bias in Warcraft is HORDE BIAS /s

Cata, CLEAR Horde Bias.

Blizzard fixing observable and countable Alliance bias in zone distribution cannot constitute a bias in itself.

BfA drips horde. The devs all ooze horde fandom. Get real Arrashi. The only BfA doesn't have bias is if the Horde is ended officially for their aggression, and not 'turning against their Warchief' like in MoP.

But it's Alliance (once again, that is) that is the aggressor. So what the fuck are you railing about?

Which will never happen. Horde players get to enjoy endless aggression against the Alliance in every fucking story arc in the game, the Alliance is always either reacting to it, or pretending it doesn't exist because a 'bigger threat' needs to be dealt with.

Yeah, endless Horde aggression that Alliance only reacts to. Like:
-Dwarven incursion into Barrens
-Dwarven incursion into Mulgore
-Dwarven incursion into Alterac Valley
-Ambermill
-Battle for the Undercity, where Alliance declared war that lasted till the end of MoP (so around 4 years in-lore) on the Horde, over the actions of people who were in open rebellion against the Horde
-Attack on Crossroads and capture of Honor's Stand, which broke the truce factions had after WotLK
-Alliance invasion of Gilneas (by the time Alliance got involved, the Horde already won the war against Worgen - at the time of said war unaffiliated with the Alliance - and owned the zone)
-Unprovoked surprise attack against the Horde in Stormheim
-Silithus, where it's the Alliance that attacks the Horde, starting another war

Who'd have thunk, you're full of shit.

Apparently no one at Blizzard thought that there would be those in the Alliance who'd rather burn the world than save it for the Horde. Oh wait, they did, and they made them bad guys in Firelands raid.

Their main motive was still more about Malfurion not protecting them from the Horde than the Horde per se.

please explain how MoP, WoD and Legion had ANY Alliance bias. In fact the very bullshit of the Nightborne going over to the Horde and starting aggression against the Alliance is a giant spit in the faces of every Alliance player who fucked off their time doing Nightfallen quests

Given how Nightborne join before the war and Alliance starts the hostilities, do tell me more of this riveting tale of Nightborne starting aggression against the Alliance. As for Legion, see above. As for MoP, Alliance got basically scot free from starting a world war they managed to survive only because the Horde imploded on itself.

ROFL that is your example of favouritism? The DKs running around raising new champions for the faction? Pathetic compared to the bloody joke of giving Horde every phase in Cata at their victory and nothing showing them driven out.

People running through a Horde city and killing everything in sight obviously isn't Alliance bias. People running in Alliance city and killing everything in sight is ERMAHGERD THE SKY IS FALLING LEVEL OF HORDE BIAS. Because consistency. Even when one makes arguments why the latter is bias based on Alliance being portrayed as incompetent.

How is that Alliance favourtism again? You had to do a storyline that involved rooting out a demon in SI:7? Okay I'll play your dumbass game: how come no demons infiltrated the horde and needed to be removed? Get real, NEITHER your example nor my mockery of it is favourtism. What is favouritism is turning Siege of Orgrimmar into a hugbox with the fucking Horde instead of having them be the losers.

Obviously it's not favoritism. Only things like Blizzard fixing zone imbalance that favored the Alliance is favoritism. Because after hearing the whine about MUH HORDE BIAS the very concept of logic just killed itself.

and the tauren had a whole zone, and it wasn't half rotted by the Nightmare LOL. Oh jeez ARGUS? OKay by that metric ALL of WoD was full of orcs, even the corner

Those Tauren weren't affiliated with the Horde in Legion. The Night Elves in Val'sharah were affiliated with Darnassus in Legion. And oh noes, it was covered with Nightmare? So super relevant. Handwave harder.

Lmao really? Okay Thrall killed Garrosh when he should've been executed by the Alliance...

Why?

Cata and MoP all about the Horde, and legitimately about the Horde. Not 'zomg we had to save SI:7 from demonic infiltration'

I'm pretty sure faction war expansions were about both factions. Otherwise it'd be Horde fighting air.

It's pretty clear the people saying there is no Horde favouritism have never played Alliance at all. Go fucking play Alliance, then play Horde, compare and contrast. I've done both, every expansion. If you haven't, shut the fuck up

What is even more clear is is that playing both sides obviously didn't help you much if you think Alliance is always reacting and the Horde is always the aggressor. That happens when you cover yourself in fanfiction armor and use it to fuel your inane conspiracy theory paranoia about Blizzard pissing in your cereal. And really, you've played 7.2 and think there was no Alliance bias in it having no Horde story while Alliance got the questline about Anduin? Your credibility is near-infinite, really.

And for once it'd be nice to have Genn and Admiral Rodgers just go rogue and nuke Echo Isles or Silvermoon or even Orgrimmar but that. never. happens. Again, horde favouritism. Yea, they lose Undercity... on THEIR terms. Fuck that shit. Never once has the Alliance simply taken something of importance from them, on the Alliance's terms.

Infracted.

Alliance even managing to make a successful naval landing in the seat of enemy power, even though the entire Horde is waiting for them is beyond implausible. Something something plot armor. And instead of admitting that you rail about HORDE BIAS COVFEFE some more because "all" Alliance managed to do under these circumstances that break the suspension of disbelief is making the Forsaken lose their capital city. Also, the stories not being mirrored isn't bias.

And Valsharah had nothing to do with the Alliance. Just because they are Night Elves doesn't make them Alliance.

Unless it's Valewalker Farodin, of course Jesus, you have so little integrity you make Trump look like the most intellectually honest person in the history of the universe.

T They also kill a bunch of human paladins in the Paladin order hall. Again *more* bs.

Ah, that of course counts. Even though the Silver Hand is neutral. Unlike Horde city being raided by them.

they didn't lose shit. They got to keep everything they stole from the Alliance and the Alliance didn't even get the satisfaction of destroying the Horde.

Given the fact that Alliance started the war, they should have lost land. They got the satisfaction of not being wiped out for being imperialistic warmongers.

Khadgar isnt' an Alliance hero. Neither is Maiev. Neither is Odyn. Malfurion hasn't been flagged Alliance ever, so he's not Alliance as well. Tyrande is and it would've been better not having her there at all than how she showed up.

Maiev and Malfurion aren't Alliance heroes now? And Tyrande gets handwaved away because it's convenient for you? How fascinating. Utterly shocking too.

You aren't going to win this argument.

When you make the rules of it as you go and bend over backwards in a sea of inconsistency, that's kinda a given.

At the end of the day Alliance and horde players in LEGION both got what they wanted, which was defeating the Legion. Velen being there for Argus was not half as important than Illidan, but who the fuck else would be there? Thrall? Lorthemar?

Does that excuse a lack of Horde characters? It's convenient for you, so of course it does

the horde has never been a punching bag in the story at any point in the entire history of WoW.

Meanwhile in SoO.

Why do you think Horde players here are so fucking excited over characters like Garrosh and Sylvanas? They get what they want, ONCE again in the story: killing Alliance and getting to see Alliance things destroyed. Devs are so are up their own horde loving asses they can't see or more likely opt to ignore the fact that Alliance players want to kill Horde as much as Horde wants to kill Alliance. thus far it's YET to happen.

You do realize Alliance players were also excited at Blizzcon? And yeah, Alliance killing Horde never happened /s

We don't even get to have our vengeance, we have to fucking share a 'Conqueror' title with a 'Liberator' title.

You really can whine about everything, can't you? Oh noes, Horde players that teamed up with the Alliance got a title. Ze horror. Because I still don't know how cobelligerence works.

Ever wonder how Garrosh isn't considered crazy by Horde fans but someone on the Alliance who wishes to do to the Horde what Garrosh sought to do to the Alliance is *always* labeled as crazy? Think about it for a bit. The Horde player gets what they want.

Yeah, Garrosh is so beloved by all. Because Horde players are a convenient hive mind. And Rogers is so heavily criticized. Because every anti-Horde character is actually Jaina.

The Alliance player gets told to shut the fuck up and enjoy the second fiddle.

Pretty sure that's what the voices say, not Blizzard.

That is why the Alliance has never gone on the offencive, never took the fight to the Horde proper, never nuked a Horde city, never burned a Horde zone to the ground and never will because those who write the story would never let their poor widdle horde suffer like that.

Aside from the at least dozen times (that outnumber the Horde attacks during WoW's run) mentioned earlier.

Right because Valsharah had some night elves in it and Velen lead the fight on Argus (from behind Illidan). and fucking Death Knights lead an attack to free Koltira. You know Horde death knights do that quest too, right? really bloody weak.

But I thought a faction being presented as incompetent and having their city infiltrated by a small force was already bias...

If horde fans on this forum AREN'T looking forward to the expansion with frothing admiration at once again getting to kill the Alliance whilst the Alliance bends over and takes it to save teh world, then maybe you'll have a point. I'm yet to see that in ANY fucking expansion focused on a faction war. Like Cata, MoP and this upcoming shitstorm BfA (Blizz Fucks Alliance).

Then your eyes are as selective as your memory. BfA had weak reception on lore forum from both sides.

[Qualia]

Malfurion isn't immune to any silence magic though. What you describe as powerful is just bad writing and incompetent enemy's. Which is always the problem with Lore Villains. Also, its never a good idea to make characters that powerful.

I wouldn't argue whether it's a good idea to make characters powerful or not, as I have seen some characters who are outright broken in term of power yet still a joy to read in fiction. It's all a matter of execution - not saying Malfurion (or any powerful character in WoW so far) was one, though.

However, case in point, while Malfurion is susceptible to silence magic, he has a much better range than any silence we know of. His thunderstorm in WoTA, for example, traveled all the way from where he was to Zin-Ashari, a distance that took the NE army more than a few days to cross. Rommath is powerful, but it's questionable whether he, even with the Sunwell, would be equal to Xavius who was not only one of the most powerful Highborn, but also got access to the Well of Eternity (aka Super Sunwell) and got empowered further by Sargeras. Given that Malfurion was relatively new to drudism back then, he should be more powerful now. Technically, Malfurion could stay in Mt. Hyjal and drown Ogrimmar if we are to go by his power in lore, and I doubt the Horde has any mean to deal with it.

You are right that it's true that in this case, Blizzard kind of wrote themselves into a corner. Malfurion, or a number of Knaak's character were written to be way more brokenly powerful compared to the rest. Yet, they were still left alone living among the characters instead of isolated in their own bubbles or weaken (i.e: Thrall). So the writings of characters aside, it brought the issues we have - there would always be the question of "Why doesn't he / she / it just do what they can do?". This, of course, applies not just to Malfurion but a few other characters as well (KJ and Archimonde, for example). if they just did what is smart to do, a number of things would have turned out very different from what we experienced in-game. I don't think anyone wondering "Why didn't Malfurion just use his power" (assuming Malfurion isn't killed because of whatever bombed Teldrassil) actually didn't have an answer or expected a good explanation, but more likely used it as some sort of a tongue-in-cheek to poke at the issue of a very powerful character having to suffer PiS as a result of questionable storytelling instead.

Yes, the Vindicaar ecome powerful because we helped to empower with with various stuffs. However, it remains unchanged, so it's still as powerful as it was at the end of Legion. isn't it weird just not seeing it flying around in battle when there were very little anti-air weaponry that is capable of shooting it down on Azeroth? I don't think it could one shot Silvermoon either, but it definitely could rain destruction on many battlegrounds, especially given that it can travel around the world in much shorter time than an army, a flying battleship or a tank. Although to be fair, Velen not wanting to be too involved in massacre is actually a more acceptable than any explanation I can think of for Malfurion.

[Mehrunes]

The people saying Garrosh and Sylvanas aren't evil are the devs 'dude' These sycophants are pretending there is no bias because they smugly get everything they want and KNOW they'll never have to see their precious Sylvanas or race be shown getting exterminated in game. 'Deploy the plague' is never met with 'unleash the Judgement Bomb' and vapourise an entire army of rotting corpses in a magic when know instantly obliterates the undead leaving nothing but ashes. In fact it's the impetus for never giving the race a paladin. It's fucking ridiculous how much Blizz openly favourites the Horde, these people here know it, hence they get to sit back and act like that isn't the case.

The only case of Light anything obliterating undead into ashes was Ashbringer. Judgement Bomb isn't a thing. No Alliance race has been exterminated either. You're outright pulling either nonexistent things or abject fanfiction out of your ass in order to trigger yourself. Also, that top notch logic. "People deny my fantasies of Horde bias. They must secretly think I'm right!"

Nuke an entire city from Orbit. 'But think of those rotting undead who can't reproduce, it'd be genocide' therefore the Alliance wouldn't do it. Even as the Horde commit genocide on the Alliance but IT'S MORALLY GREY.

Name one genocide committed by the New Horde. Also, ethnic cleansing in Dalaran doesn't count, because triggering must go on.

If an Alliance leader did half of what Garrosh did you'd have these Horde fans shitting their drawers in endless rage about it. And screeching Alliance favouritism for something evening the score. They chimped out about Jaina, they chimped out about Genn GReymane and Admiral Rogers. It's fucking hilarious tbh. Garrosh was a great leader for the Horde. FFS why can't the Alliance have people with that kind of attitude. Oh right, it's CRAZY to think 'exterminating the Horde' is an acceptable stance but it's well within reason for 'Exterminating the Alliance' to be the Horde's plans every time there isn't a big bad to fight.

But what if, and I want you to follow me here, Horde players weren't the morons you portray them to be and were capable of understanding that one faction using WMDs isn't bias in any way, shape or form? And Garrosh gets a ton of shit from Horde players. Were you living under a rock for the past few years? Or in MUH HORDE BIAS RAMBLING IS CORRECT-themed safe space?

thus denying the Alliance a change at getting vengeance. And they 'liberate' Orgrimmar. The Horde was never torn apart. Garrosh simply detached from it and sealed himself up with his new bros.

Given how Varian's goal wasn't vengeance there but deposing Garrosh, whoopty doo.

indeed it is. Afterall Garrosh ceased being the Warchief in 5.2 purely to make that happen.

In 5.2? Wat? Also, I like how him not being Warchief doesn't count for Horde (I mean, they only lost a leader in a stupidly contrived plot /s) but he totally counts for Alliance not getting vengeance. To quote you:

Disingenous much?

the only one, and it's a single questline with her screaming for Malfurion

More handwaving, how nice.

neutral characters, every.single.one.

But Thrall counts as Horde bias in Cata, even though he was also neutral at the time. You make me sad.

And besides I have Liadrin, Halduron, Garona, Hamuul all working with me. Plenty of legit Horde Heroes working with you in the Order Halls.

There's a difference between the Order Halls (I mean, you handwaved away their faction-oriented stories already) and the main quests.

I already said Legion had no favouritism one way or another but you insist it was Alliance favourtism, over neutral fucking characters.

Look at all dat Horde story in 7.2. And all those "neutral" characters that don't count, while Thrall somehow did in Cata.

Anything involving a faction war does. Legion didn't involve a faction war. Neither did WoD. Neither did Wrath, nor BC. They want to start changing zones and maps the Alliance is what loses the zones and cities. And Alliance players get no satisfaction in return.

Did you miss the attack on the Horde in Stormheim and following PvP zones? Oh, right, Alliance is never the aggressor so you denied it out of your memory. And the only reason they changed maps and zones in Cata the way they did, because they fucking favored the Alliance. Fixing that isn't bias.

Guess that finally proves the Horde are the ones behind Burning down Teldrassil which is what starts the whole war.
Horde = Aggressors, again.

Fanfiction harder. Because Alliance aggression in Silithus happens first. Just like Alliance aggression in the Barrens happened before Invasion of Ashenvale, so where the fuck do you get "again" here, genius?

That'd never be unleashed on the Horde. Just like the Vindicaar's space weapons that blasted a hole into Antorus will never be unleashed on the Horde, just like the power of Paladins vapourising undead to ash will never be unleashed, just like everything that should be unleashed won;t be, but the Horde can use an Azerite bomb or whatever and level Teldrassil.

Alexandros isn't all Paladins. Especially his goddamn weapon. Vindicaar isn't used just like Sunwell isn't used. The difference is Sunwell was already around for the previous war.

The only reason they are mining Azerite is to make yet another weapon to attack the Alliance who keeps thinking the Horde needs to exist. The Horde doesn't think the Alliance needs to exist, perhaps it's time to get on board with proper thinking. Oh wait devs won't allow it.

I wonder if Alliance attacking the Horde over their delusions has anything to do with the Horde making weapons. Or Alliance attacking them in Silithus before anyone in the Horde even looks in Darnassus' general direction.

[Deleted]

Given how the opposite won't happen either because *shock* it's an MMO, why are you using this to fuel your railing about HORDE BIAS COVFEFE?

okay, rather then, pls explain me your mind. The alliance, especially the night elves, gradually lost any profile, any strength, any power. A faction that could still keep up with Horde and Alliance in WC3 at the same time suddenly became so weak in WOW that the Horde alone was enough, how logical is that?
I play both sides, and I've recently leveled Horde again. Whether or not this was the remedy of inequities in the level areas or not, the way in which they were replaced has repeatedly exposed the Alliance forces as incapacitated. The Alliance did not experience ONE victory in all of Cata ingame, and it has not received any territory. And no, the war was triggered by Garrosh and also this present war officially starts with Teldrassil. Undercity was a reaction to the aggression of the Horde that led to the destruction of a capital. I beg you, play Alliance, you'll find out that the alliance of 1-60 does not make much of a laugh, and you just keep questing how to lose. If you realize that over the years, and that's just happening now, even if Pandaria and Cata are so long ago (now almost 7 years), the Alliance side has never outrun this. And as a pure Hordler, you do not understand that, because Cata was justice for you, but it was for the Alliance but for the Alliance, it was only the beginning of a swelling wound that led deeper and deeper into the abyss.

Again, Undercity could not even be conquered, the Horde manages to kill the druid in time, leaving the night elf at least one territory (Druids), destroying Teldrassil, attacking Stormwind, freeing Zul and the Zandalari princess + Saurfang and to make matters worse, it just needed 200 man, 200..that is really a slap in the face, for all night elf fans, another, many night elves will stop with BFA, why play another race, the Blizz is shown constantly weak, you as Hordler have no worries because the undead are shown strong, the orcs are shown strong, the tauren are represented strong .. but for the alliance BFA threatens to become an addon, what just for the night elves is no longer worthy of loyalty to their race.

Just like Alliance aggression in the Barrens happened before Invasion of Ashenvale, so where the fuck do you get "again" here, genius?

The Barrens wasn´t happened bevore the invasion of Ashenvale. Ashenvale was first, You can read it..in two novels..first novel: Tides of War, second Novel Warcrimes..