Scaling in Classic

[A dot Ham]

Each and every one of your argument is wrong.

Why because you say it is? Go away. Your entire post brings a completely irrational, and unnecessary amount of aggression and hostility to an otherwise civil conversation.

You don't like scaling that's fine. That's an opinion. Appropriate challenges and their subsequent rewards are the lifeblood of an mmo. Designing systems the ensure that is always the case is just... smart.

Every single one of your counter points is nothing more than opinion, though its clear in your mind that it is fact.

There is no right or wrong answer.

When your entire approach to responding to people is to dissect and find weaknesses, you miss out on context. I could go through and point out your reasoning is flawed, and riddled with logical fallacies. But I'm not interested again (cuz clearly you missed it) in a dick measuring contest (I know mine is bigger) .

The point of this discussion wasn't about whether scaling works, or whether or not it was possible or even needed for vanilla.

It was more or less would that be a deal breaker for your "Classic" experience? Both the necessity to buy the latest retail version of WoW, AND having scaling in your classic. That's it... that's the entire discussion.

[Chaelexi]

1) First of all, we're not gonna have to buy BfA to play classic, only the basic game and the old expansions that are now included.

Fist of all nobody know what you are going to have to subscribe to, buy, steal, or sleep with to get access to vanilla servers so stop trying to sound like you actually know. I am almost sure Blizzard is still deciding on this. What happens if you need to buy BFA to get access?

2) There are more than enough quests to take you to lvl 60, no grinding required at all. If a player doesn't want to look or is too dumb to do so, no scaling will save him/her.

Depending on drop rates you can hit points where you either have to dungeon run or grind to get levels. Of head to a zone that is slightly below your current level and grind that out.

3) You're not suppose to 'complete everything in a given zone' and then move to next one. That's how arcade shooters work, "stage one completed, get ready for stage two, go!". No, it's a world (of warcraft) you play, your quests will be all over the places. And even if you need to grind mobs there's usually a very good reason, like leveling up some professions or farming mats for craftable item, etc.

Who says that your way of playing a game is the defacto correct way of playing. I know in Vanilla I would try my best to complete a zone before going to another one, unless a questline ends at visit.....neighbouring town.

I believe the game will be kind of vanilla WoW enhanced edition. They're gonna use current client and strip down all non-vanilla features and mechanics, then add the old maps and quests. Not everything will be the same as in old game. What they're gonna be, that remains to be seen.

This is the only likely true statement you have said. I think there will be some QoL changes but nothing life changing:
1) Ability to mail more than one Item at a time
2) Guild Banks
3) Current LUA code(as it fixes many of the broken/exploitable code in vanilla code)
4) Connected flight paths
5) Right-click Reporting
6) most obvious one: Battle.net
7) Update Auction house functionality
8) Key Ring

[Akka]

Why because you say it is? Go away. Your entire post brings a completely irrational, and unnecessary amount of aggression and hostility to an otherwise civil conversation.

No, it's wrong because I disproved each and every one. And yes I'm angry, because this level scaling garbage is the lazy way out of design and is polluting so much of the production these days, and is ruining immersion everywhere.

When your entire approach to responding to people is to dissect and find weaknesses, you miss out on context.

Actually that the very opposite. I've started by pointing why the very concept of level scaling is bad, then I pointed how it contradict the very essence of Vanilla. It doesn't seem you actually read anything I wrote.

It was more or less would that be a deal breaker for your "Classic" experience? Both the necessity to buy the latest retail version of WoW, AND having scaling in your classic. That's it... that's the entire discussion.

And I think I pretty much answered that : yes it would be a deal-breaker (it's actually a deal-breaker even in current WoW, my interest in BfA was very low but the moment I saw they put level scaling everywhere, I knew that it was the last I would ever saw of non-Classic WoW). I just also explained WHY it's a deal-breaker, and how it sabotage the very basis of Classic.

[Akibaboy]

I think scaling works great on live.

No need for it in Classic - you're never out-leveling things before you have a chance to complete them, and are general always a little hungry for more quests and exp sources to the point where you're actually worrying about leveling up to be able to do more content, the exact opposite of live's issue of dragging content up to your level since you're leveling too damn fast.

[Nitros14]

Do not want. Massive change.

[Chaelexi]

I think scaling works great on live.

No need for it in Classic - you're never out-leveling things before you have a chance to complete them, and are general always a little hungry for more quests and exp sources to the point where you're actually worrying about leveling up to be able to do more content, the exact opposite of live's issue of dragging content up to your level since you're leveling too damn fast.

What you said would be the reason for scaling as it would allow you to move on to the next location earlier if you finish one before you hit level.

[gerlach1025]

If you add scaling then it wouldn't be classic.

[deniter]

@Chaelexi

You can always play WoW without buying the latest expansion set. I don't see why anyone would do so after they hit the current max level but buying expansions has always been optional. I can't see why this would be any different with classic servers. That's of course if we assume classic servers are linked to regular subscriptions instead of being independent monthly fees or even B2P costs.

The original question was if you can level from 1 to 60 without grinding mobs for no other purpose than to get exp. I know the answer, yes you can. Running dungeons is part of the usual gameplay and doesn't count as grinding, does it? Besides, there's nothing wrong in mob grinding, lots of people do it voluntarily, even like it, some even prefer it over quest grind. I, for one, want to level up my professions as i get levels so i sometimes stop to grind mobs for cloth, leather or meat, not to mention times when i'm broke and need some gold for something in the AH or maybe mount and need to grind some gray drops for vendoring.

There's no correct or wrong ways to play WoW or any MMORPGs for that matter. You can even level up from 1 to 60 and never complete a single quest if you want. That's the magic of this genre, you can find the way that suits best for you. But looking it realistically, entering the zone and completing all quest in it before going another one seems more like an obsession than reasonable decision. Lets take Ashenvale for instance. You can start questing there at level 18 and highest quests are lvl 30+ in its eastern part, which means a lot of mob grinding to fill the gaps. And there are some quests you can get in Ashenvale but in order to complete them you have to travel to another zones. The quest for killing the mage in Barrens and the quest for wyverns in Stonetalon Mountains comes in my mind. And after level 30 more and more of quests work that way, you don't have a luxury of staying in one zone. There are only a handful of quests for your level before it's time to move and come back later.

Some of those QoL features you listed already were in vanilla. Connected flight paths was added at the end of 2005 (i remember this because i started playing in fall 2005 and they changed it when i was playing my first character) and key ring was there from day one (at least from my day one). I don't know about the rest of them but i can't see why any of them were left out from WoW:Classic since they don't really affect the gameplay.

[Paulosio]

You're a fool if you think they ain't making changes with Classic. Period. Lol.

Scaling's too much, though.

I could see small things like connected flight paths that have basically no impact on gameplay... But there certainly wont be any major systems changes and I highly doubt there will be any class changes to make certain specs 'viable' either.

[A dot Ham]

No, it's wrong because I disproved each and every one. And yes I'm angry, because this level scaling garbage is the lazy way out of design and is polluting so much of the production these days, and is ruining immersion everywhere.

Actually that the very opposite. I've started by pointing why the very concept of level scaling is bad, then I pointed how it contradict the very essence of Vanilla. It doesn't seem you actually read anything I wrote.

And I think I pretty much answered that : yes it would be a deal-breaker (it's actually a deal-breaker even in current WoW, my interest in BfA was very low but the moment I saw they put level scaling everywhere, I knew that it was the last I would ever saw of non-Classic WoW). I just also explained WHY it's a deal-breaker, and how it sabotage the very basis of Classic.

So you direct that anger and frustration at me? That sounds completely rational to you?

Whatever man, go take a nap. Have a nice weekend!

[ossyc]

I don't know why you lot get your knickers in a twist over posts such as this. They're just clueless trolls.........

........they don't understand the concept of Classic

Zone scaling in vanilla, lol yeahhhhhhhhh riggggggghhhhhtttt

[Laqweeta]

No.

Play BfA/Retail.

[Akka]

So you direct that anger and frustration at me? That sounds completely rational to you?

No, I direct that anger at the concept of level scaling. It's level scaling itself that I have insulted.

The only irritation I directed specifically toward you was much milder and was about the false and annoying claim that there wasn't enough quests to reach max level.

Once again, I wonder if you really read my posts or just quickly skimmed through them.

[pateuvasiliu]

Weird, I remember grinding fucking npcs in eastern plaguelands to get to 60 on my priest...

Then you were doing it badly.

I have levelled 1-60 recently and had no such issues.

[Dekkers]

Nice bait m8

None of this dogshit scaling/transmog/xrealm/lfg/ etc. will be in Classic.
GTFO

[nomorepriest]

Nope........

1)
2) There are more than enough quests to take you to lvl 60, no grinding required at all. If a player doesn't want to look or is too dumb to do so, no scaling will save him/her.

Wrong wrong wrong. It was required to grind a few levels in vanilla..

- - - Updated - - -

Then you were doing it badly.

I have levelled 1-60 recently and had no such issues.

He’s talking about vanilla you moron.

[Rotted]

2) There are more than enough quests to take you to lvl 60, no grinding required at all. If a player doesn't want to look or is too dumb to do so, no scaling will save him/her.

Disagree with having scaling in classic.

But no there wasn't enough enough quests to take you to 60 at all. Not in the slightest, and that's commonly known. The only way you had enough quests to hit 60 was if you spent a good chunk of time grinding along the way, just enough to push you up for few extra bars every 10 levels or so, just enough so doing every quest would just get you there.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

They only edition vanilla could use is mythic+ dungeons.

[deniter]

Disagree with having scaling in classic.

But no there wasn't enough enough quests to take you to 60 at all. Not in the slightest, and that's commonly known. The only way you had enough quests to hit 60 was if you spent a good chunk of time grinding along the way, just enough to push you up for few extra bars every 10 levels or so, just enough so doing every quest would just get you there.

There are enough quests but you gotta know the trick how to get ahead of quests. There's a thread on this forum about the worst things in vanilla and for me it is too small quest log. At certain point i have the log full of quests so that i have to abandon some and make a note to self that i remember pick them up later.

For example, when i start a new human character i do all quests in Elwynn forest, then i'm sent to Westfall and do the quest that teach you how to use flight points, but instead of going on with the rest of Westfall quests i travel to Ironforge and run to Loch Modan doing some low level quests that are on my way to Thelsamar. By the time i have done the first dwarven quests i've reached level 14 and all the Westfall quests are now yellow to me. I go back to Westfall and halfway in questing there i get my first quest for Redridge and i still have plenty of stuff to do in Westfall. I hit lvl 18 when i'm ready to go to Redridge and i still have an option to go Ashenvale which is suitable for lvl 18+ characters on ally side.

The trick is not to follow the questlines in linear fashion. Of course if you're a new player you can't possibly know how to do it, but for experienced player there are more than enough quests to bring you to 60 without grinding.

[Chaelexi]

@Chaelexi

You can always play WoW without buying the latest expansion set. I don't see why anyone would do so after they hit the current max level but buying expansions has always been optional. I can't see why this would be any different with classic servers. That's of course if we assume classic servers are linked to regular subscriptions instead of being independent monthly fees or even B2P costs.

The original question was if you can level from 1 to 60 without grinding mobs for no other purpose than to get exp. I know the answer, yes you can. Running dungeons is part of the usual gameplay and doesn't count as grinding, does it? Besides, there's nothing wrong in mob grinding, lots of people do it voluntarily, even like it, some even prefer it over quest grind. I, for one, want to level up my professions as i get levels so i sometimes stop to grind mobs for cloth, leather or meat, not to mention times when i'm broke and need some gold for something in the AH or maybe mount and need to grind some gray drops for vendoring.

There's no correct or wrong ways to play WoW or any MMORPGs for that matter. You can even level up from 1 to 60 and never complete a single quest if you want. That's the magic of this genre, you can find the way that suits best for you. But looking it realistically, entering the zone and completing all quest in it before going another one seems more like an obsession than reasonable decision. Lets take Ashenvale for instance. You can start questing there at level 18 and highest quests are lvl 30+ in its eastern part, which means a lot of mob grinding to fill the gaps. And there are some quests you can get in Ashenvale but in order to complete them you have to travel to another zones. The quest for killing the mage in Barrens and the quest for wyverns in Stonetalon Mountains comes in my mind. And after level 30 more and more of quests work that way, you don't have a luxury of staying in one zone. There are only a handful of quests for your level before it's time to move and come back later.

Some of those QoL features you listed already were in vanilla. Connected flight paths was added at the end of 2005 (i remember this because i started playing in fall 2005 and they changed it when i was playing my first character) and key ring was there from day one (at least from my day one). I don't know about the rest of them but i can't see why any of them were left out from WoW:Classic since they don't really affect the gameplay.

Key ring was added in 2.0