Battle For Azeroth: Mage Megathread (Alpha/Beta)

[Deleted]

This is worrying. I mean, fire had this issues in the past, at the beginning of nearly every expansion. Legion was acutally an exception. Not to the point of unplayability tho.
I just hope it turns out okay.

In Legion the handled it pretty well I think. You got to fairly comfortable stat values by gearing properly. So much so they actually had to tune it down for Nighthold. I enjoyed fire quite a lot at the start of legion. Sadly didn't get the bracers early so my mage was relegated to being an alt at the start. But the time I spent on my mage I quite enjoyed.

In BFA first we're going to lose 3 of our biggest secondary stat sticks (helmet, shoulders, chest) since azerite pieces don't have any secondaries and the heart is hardly enough to compensate (slightly more crit than 370 main crit statted legs). Played arround with gearing a bit on the pvp server (premade 120s, epic ilvl 370 gear to buy) and the highest I was able to reach was 47% crit with all crit pieces and crit being the highest stat on all items. But then haste and mastery were at 10% with 0% verse. Casting fireballs felt almost like hardcasting pyroblasts in legion. And 46% crit without any help like say ToS 2pc+4pc,firestarter+belt affix or NH 2pc is just way to little.

If you decide that's not enough and think about rolling frost you're going to run into the situation that it's basically not possible to get crit capped outside of procs. Highest I was able to reach was 29%, with other secondaries as low as it gets. If you don't want to bother and just stack haste to make the frostbolt simulator less obnoxious you can reach about 20% haste if you fully gear for haste. But I mean at the end of the day you're just going to gear for what sims the highest. If that is anything, but haste you're in for a rough time as frost as well.

Arcane is basically the same as frost. But I have no clue, which stats are going to be the way to go. But at high haste and 0 ACs Arcane Blast sits at 1.9s, which is kind of okay I guess.

[Charge me Doctor]

I don't understand, why they are keeping the bracers as a talent choice. The 15% chance is unreliable and it is lazy as fuck from a game disign perspective.

Speaking of 15% chance, pre level 15 i've got way more bracers procs than talent procs. Maybe its just goofs with percentages, or maybe its nuffle playing jokes with me again

- - - Updated - - -

The first thing it needs right now is a big boost to the crit chance. Dressed in full crit dungeon/wq at 120 I am not even at 40% crit. The spec is as unfun as it gets and at least for me completely unplayable. And looking at the stat distribution on higher ilvl pieces there's nothing going to change in the near future if blizzard does not intervene.

i personally find that it's fine at 40%, you have some downtime when nothing happens and you are out of tools to make stuff happen, but lack of haste is whats killing me right now. Fireball is so freaking long and deals unrewarding damage i can't even believe that

[Deleted]

i personally find that it's fine at 40%, you have some downtime when nothing happens and you are out of tools to make stuff happen, but lack of haste is whats killing me right now. Fireball is so freaking long and deals unrewarding damage i can't even believe that

Low crit chance is a really big problem when it comes to consistency though. It's especially noticable in dungeons since we lose phoenix reborn. Casting 5 fireballs while the rest of the group is AoEing feels really bad. And remember 46% is the absolute best case scenario. You're not going to be in full crit statted 370 gear with crit being the higher stat on every single piece for a long time. Just getting a few high titanforged non crit pieces you HAVE to wear is going to kill your crit chance and anything below 40% is unacceptable. At least in my opinion. Low haste is a big problem as well I agree.

[Swizzle]

Low crit chance is a really big problem when it comes to consistency though. It's especially noticable in dungeons since we lose phoenix reborn. Casting 5 fireballs while the rest of the group is AoEing feels really bad. And remember 46% is the absolute best case scenario. You're not going to be in full crit statted 370 gear with crit being the higher stat on every single piece for a long time. Just getting a few high titanforged non crit pieces you HAVE to wear is going to kill your crit chance and anything below 40% is unacceptable. At least in my opinion. Low haste is a big problem as well I agree.

I'm going to make another Mage on the PvP realm to buy up and test the Fire gear (don't know why Blizz puts you at a zone you can't leave with no mailbox and only 5k gold when every piece costs 300+g). I think my Frost Mage got to 26% crit, so I'm curious what I can roll Fire up to. Will report back in a few minutes.

Edit:



Getting Crit that high really hurt every other stat. Secondary stat budget is really low on the 370 gear, wonder how slow the ilvl growth will be this expac. If it goes back to WotLK with only 10-15 ilvls per tier, then we would need to the end of the expansion to get competent stat levels.

[Charge me Doctor]

Low crit chance is a really big problem when it comes to consistency though. It's especially noticable in dungeons since we lose phoenix reborn. Casting 5 fireballs while the rest of the group is AoEing feels really bad. And remember 46% is the absolute best case scenario. You're not going to be in full crit statted 370 gear with crit being the higher stat on every single piece for a long time. Just getting a few high titanforged non crit pieces you HAVE to wear is going to kill your crit chance and anything below 40% is unacceptable. At least in my opinion. Low haste is a big problem as well I agree.

Yeah, but not having PF for AoE means that you've just dumped them a minute ago, that's downtime i've been talking about. I mean, i'd love to have some PF recovery option, but it will make this talent outright better than other options (even better than it is now i mean), so the only way for this to happen is when they make PF a baseline ability.

We still have ignite, scorch for aoe and scorch for heating up. I didn't do high level keys, but i didn't remember being able to cast more than 4 fireballs per pack of mobs (in worst case)

[rogoth]

How do you use Arcane Missiles in BFA? Still wait for a clear casting proc or use it now and then?

depends on talents and azerite traits, you either use it like you do now and wait on the proc effect from the clearcasting effect and just pretend like it's the old proc system, or you spam missiles with the right talents and do more damage than AB spam.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

(don't know why Blizz puts you at a zone you can't leave with no mailbox and only 5k gold when every piece costs 300+g).

Fwiw, there's a paymaster that sets you to 50k each time you talk to him somewhere.

[Swizzle]

Fwiw, there's a paymaster that sets you to 50k each time you talk to him somewhere.

Found him, random little Goblin next to the trinket vendor if anyone was curious.

As for the latest build...literally nothing apart from two Azerite nerfs. The duplicative Fireball one sucks cause that trait was actually fun. 5% proc chance seems too low and the UI doesn't update increased values if you stack traits so I'm not sure if they're multiplicative or additive, someone else can weigh in on that.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

As for the latest build...literally nothing apart from two Azerite nerfs. The duplicative Fireball one sucks cause that trait was actually fun. 5% proc chance seems too low and the UI doesn't update increased values if you stack traits so I'm not sure if they're multiplicative or additive, someone else can weigh in on that.

If it works like the Frost ones do, the only thing that stacks is the extra damage component.

[Voidwielder]

Hello.

For the first time since early TBC, I'm looking to reroll from Shadow. Currently looking at Warlock and Mage, in this case - Frost spec to be precise.

How does it compare to Legion frost? AoE, ST wise? How does the rotation and proc-playout feel?

[Deleted]

Hello.

For the first time since early TBC, I'm looking to reroll from Shadow. Currently looking at Warlock and Mage, in this case - Frost spec to be precise.

How does it compare to Legion frost? AoE, ST wise? How does the rotation and proc-playout feel?

By losing the artifact/legendaries/set bonusses the only thing frost loses that affected gameplay is iirc instant cast blizzard during frozen orbs, being able to stack 3 charges of FoF, additional frost damage during Icy Veins and Icy Veins CDR with frostbolt crits. Other than that everything meantioned before didn't really alter the gameplay. Talentwise there aren't any big changes either. You now need to pick Ebenbolt as a talent, but the other options aren't too great anyway. You're probably going to use the pet again, but since water jet got pruned there isn't really any meaningful interaction (outside of openworld/trash fight/pvp) anyway. It also looks like we're going to run Glacial Spike. Some people like it some don't, but as it is right now it drastically simplifies gameplay (Holding brain freeze procs etc.). Also mastery is much better than before. When it comes to procs it feels slightly better since iirc they slightly nerfed the damage our procc'd spells do but increased the proc chance.

To summarize if you liked Legion frost you're probably going to enjoy BFA frost. The spec retained it's proccy nature, but it's slightly less bad since Ice Lance does way less damage than before and frostbolt crits don't reduce the cooldown on Icy Veins or increase the damage of Ice Lances anymore. And since Icy Veins lost a lot of its power it's less detrimental towards your overall DPS whether you get your procs during the opener or later on in the fight. ST and especially light cleave are Frost's strengths AoE is still its weakness, but manageable.

[Voidwielder]

By losing the artifact/legendaries/set bonusses the only thing frost loses that affected gameplay is iirc instant cast blizzard during frozen orbs, being able to stack 3 charges of FoF, additional frost damage during Icy Veins and Icy Veins CDR with frostbolt crits. Other than that everything meantioned before didn't really alter the gameplay. Talentwise there aren't any big changes either. You now need to pick Ebenbolt as a talent, but the other options aren't too great anyway. You're probably going to use the pet again, but since water jet got pruned there isn't really any meaningful interaction (outside of openworld/trash fight/pvp) anyway. It also looks like we're going to run Glacial Spike. Some people like it some don't, but as it is right now it drastically simplifies gameplay (Holding brain freeze procs etc.). Also mastery is much better than before. When it comes to procs it feels slightly better since iirc they slightly nerfed the damage our procc'd spells do but increased the proc chance.

To summarize if you liked Legion frost you're probably going to enjoy BFA frost. The spec retained it's proccy nature, but it's slightly less bad since Ice Lance does way less damage than before and frostbolt crits don't reduce the cooldown on Icy Veins or increase the damage of Ice Lances anymore. And since Icy Veins lost a lot of its power it's less detrimental towards your overall DPS whether you get your procs during the opener or later on in the fight. ST and especially light cleave are Frost's strengths AoE is still its weakness, but manageable.

I am hesitant about Destro because it doesn't have utilities that Frost has - Hero/Iceblock/instant mobility but as a lifelong Shadow Priest, the proc aspect of it... slightly overwhelms me at times, especially when doing high M+ when you have to keep track of dozen things.

So what you say that proccing is only becoming more prevalent in BfA?

[Deleted]

I am hesitant about Destro because it doesn't have utilities that Frost has - Hero/Iceblock/instant mobility but as a lifelong Shadow Priest, the proc aspect of it... slightly overwhelms me at times, especially when doing high M+ when you have to keep track of dozen things.

So what you say that proccing is only becoming more prevalent in BfA?

I mean Frost has and will be all about the procs. You cast Frostbolt you might get a proc you might not. It for sure will never be as straightforward as it is the case for Destro, where you cast your Incinerate and get your Soulshards. Though it will at first definitely feel less stressful as Frost as it does now, since the amount of haste you can accumulate is fairly low. The rotation is less reactive as well I think, since you have to use your procs a lot more methodically running Glacial Spike.

You basically cast Frostbolts to gain Icicles use FoF more or less reactively and use your Brainfreezes on your Glacial Spikes. In AoE you're going to be overwhelmed by procs anyway because iirc the proc rate of FoF due to Frozen Orb ticks was increased quite a bit. So you're mainly going to Frozen Orb, Blizzard and Ice Lance there. Cleave is a different story, but has been for most classes pretty much always been the most challenging to execute anyway (same goes for WL). You're going to have to Frostbolt a lot while maintaining Blizzard to increase Frozen Orb uptime while more or less intelligently using your Brain Freezes.

How it actually is going to turn out depends on tuning (secondary stat tuning & talent tuning), but the basic principle revolving arround procs stays more or less the same. They're trying to keep the RNG kind of in check without affecting the general gameplay if that makes sense - more or less smoothing out the procs you get over the fight and having them affect your overall DPS less.
When it comes to what you should play I'd just recommend hitting up the PTR or waiting for the pre patch and deciding then. There's not really much to expect in terms of major class changes until 8.1 so playing arround on the PTR/pre patch is going to give you a pretty good picture what you might get in BFA.

EDIT: Proc chance for Frozen Orb actually decreased. You can find all changes here: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-...or-azeroth-bfa

[Swizzle]

You cannot AoE as Frost unless you spec into it, at which case you won't be able to do any meaningful single target. As for the pet, Lonely Winter got buffed again where it seems to be the strongest single target choice. Ebonbolt is only good if you take Splitting Ice, which you would for cleave but not AoE. Frozen Touch is better for overall generation while Chain Reaction is overall meh.

BfA Frost is Legion Frost with half the fun.

[zakalwei]

Dear forum guru's.....it's that time again pre new xpac where I start questioning whether or not I want to change class. I've played Warlock for the last few years and it may be time for something different. Up until AoTB I raided as Destro, which I think I'll go back to for BfA if I stick with lock.

I have a mage alt who I have tinkered with a bit as Fire and quite enjoy. The squishiness compared to lock can be frustrating but is probably habit of just face tanking everything and draining or using pet, but I've found it can actually be fun to finally kill a tough mob or pack on the mage even though it's more effort...quite rewarding!

I also enjoy the "blowing things up" style of the fire mage, but I'm not totally up to speed with changes in BfA. I also have no legendaries, not sure if this is a big deal for levelling? I like dpsing and I like doing damage, Mage's always seem to fair quite well in terms of this. Given the fact that lock may well be FoTM maybe its time to try something new?

TL;DR, pros and cons of mage vs lock for H raiding and M+ in BfA and other convincing arguments to wear a dress instead of being a demon summoning badass :P

[Ellsian]

I've been playing a Mage in beta for the last month. I'll give a few thoughts here for anyone interested in reading it.

Fire: My main was Fire in Legion, but like the beginning of most expansions, the stat choke from lower gear makes the spec feel very weak and not as fun. So I don't have a lot to say about Fire as I quickly changed specs, but gameplay wise it seems almost exactly like Legion thus far.

Frost: Leveled mostly as Frost since I found Arcane to be an even bigger mana hog than ever, and was tired of sitting to drink after large AOE groups. (I duo-leveled with a tank so we very quickly pulled large groups of quest mobs to AOE down, but the evo timer couldn't keep up).

Frost is very, very dependent on Glacial Spike for it's damage. It's very powerful, so powerful that it makes up a huge portion of your damage and you can shift your place on the damage meters with just one GS. Even on trash it's strong due to Splitting Ice talent. I'm not as happy with Frost playstyle and this single-minded Brain Freeze to Glacial Spike for literally everything. It got a bit stale, and it's a lot of slow casting Ebonbolt/Glacial Spike. I miss the snappier Frost playstyles from previous expansions, and would be happy to see the GS centered rotation go by the wayside. Frost can hold it's own though, and it's decent in both AOE and Single Target.

Arcane: Played a lot of Arcane this week in Mythics+. The spec is very simplified, with either spamming AB or using your AM proc (depends on your talents/azerites), and the burn/conserve phases we're used to. It's very powerful too. Going into melee to spam Arcane Explosion + ArcBarrage (on a minimum of 3 mobs) with the Reverberate talent is very strong, dominates packs. It's dangerous though, especially in higher mythics, or with tanks that cannot hold aggro from the burst well. Hotkey your Greater Invis. AOE'ing is also a mana hog, and I find myself constantly trying to drink and then blink to catch up to the group, sigh. Powerful, but wish Blizzard would tweak it so I didn't have to sit and drink so much to upkeep AOE in dungeons.

Also, I found the only thing useful with the Time Anomaly talent was leveling/world quests as it's weirdly unpredictable and not helpful in dungeons (thanks for that random evo while I'm at full mana?). I feel like the spec could have been designed better overall, but it's "viable" in that it does damage, I guess. I'm skeptical that it will do well in very high level Mythic+ keys though because of it's dependence on melee AOE and resulting mana issues.

Overall All 3 specs feel much more squishy than before. There's a glaring lack of self-healing that I'm sorely missing from Legion. Trying to do some WQ solo feels much more punishing because of that.

[trm90]

- Any hopes of RoF builds being good?

- given that GS is "back" is IF still strong or is RoP competitive?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

- Any hopes of RoF builds being good?

They're all within about 3% during prepatch from what I'm seeing. Still expect some tuning before the actual expansion launch, so enjoy for now?

- given that GS is "back" is IF still strong or is RoP competitive?

IF still king. RoP has a couple of niche uses in AoE burst, but unless they buff it back up to 50% it's a pretty dead talent for Frost.

[Bryci]

Blizzard nerf... well frost had it coming and nerf is definitely happening for quite some patches now but I don't think blizzard was anywhere near overpowered that it desperatedly needed a nerf. No sane mage used instant cast talent because the cleave is much more benefical with ebonbolt/GS and finally worth running comet storm but losing the flat 800 dmg is not a small nerf.

Frost compared to other classes wasn't even significantly stronger if even was. I ran a lot of dungeons with all specs and it felt the best to play with in every situation. Fire was close second but sustained singletarget is bad after combustion expires. Arcane is just whatever... I want to play anything other than frost because it was the dominant spec in legion and frankly just bored of it but come on 4 AB-> missiles(whenver proc)-> barrage is just not engaging gameplay for me for the 6-7th expansion in a row. They can't get away from this rotation or something? Arcane singletarget is lacking too and to be honest just not worth over frost because you win nothing plus you have to manage mana. Basically arcane does zero singletarget while buildling up charges only worthwile dmg is on 4 charges but you can't spam AB forever. I sent a lot of ideas about tweaking arcane and how to make it better over the corse of my testing but it is just useless they won't listen to handful amount of feedbacks.

[Ellsian]

Blizzard nerf... well frost had it coming and nerf is definitely happening for quite some patches now but I don't think blizzard was anywhere near overpowered that it desperatedly needed a nerf. No sane mage used instant cast talent because the cleave is much more benefical with ebonbolt/GS and finally worth running comet storm but losing the flat 800 dmg is not a small nerf.

Frost compared to other classes wasn't even significantly stronger if even was. I ran a lot of dungeons with all specs and it felt the best to play with in every situation. Fire was close second but sustained singletarget is bad after combustion expires. Arcane is just whatever... I want to play anything other than frost because it was the dominant spec in legion and frankly just bored of it but come on 4 AB-> missiles(whenver proc)-> barrage is just not engaging gameplay for me for the 6-7th expansion in a row. They can't get away from this rotation or something? Arcane singletarget is lacking too and to be honest just not worth over frost because you win nothing plus you have to manage mana. Basically arcane does zero singletarget while buildling up charges only worthwile dmg is on 4 charges but you can't spam AB forever. I sent a lot of ideas about tweaking arcane and how to make it better over the corse of my testing but it is just useless they won't listen to handful amount of feedbacks.

Yup, that's similar to my own impressions. Arcane is going to be a dead spec for higher level mythic+. No one wants to sit around and wait for OOM Arcane Mage to drink after every large pull on a closely timed run. Not to mention some of the M+ affixes are brutal to a melee aoe'ing mage. RIP Arcane.