Tipping in the USA

[belfpala]

Hand over all of your money, walk away, pretend nothing happened.

...

No really, just hand over all of your money. We all have guns.


...

Fine. See this post. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post48883742

Modify it, 20% is expected. If you don't tip, don't ever go back to that place. We remember. Servers do NOT typically split their tips with the cooking staff; you're welcome to tip them separately but it is not expected.

"Places like McDonalds or even grocery stores it is not normal to tip, and corporate policy likely prevents them from accepting." That is true, but law in most US states is that the moment a customer offers a direct service employee a tip, it becomes the property of that employee. The employee can say that corporate policy prevents him/her from accepting, but the corporation cannot prevent it if the customer insists.

Tip jars are typically shared between direct service employees. See above paragraph, it's up to the employees to decide how tips are split.

[Raelbo]

No, empathy is helping those that need help.

Empathy is the ability to feel what other people feel. It is a motivation for helping those in need.

Waiters don't. They chose that job knowing what the contract's hourly wage is.

This is a great example of a statement lacking in empathy.

A sociopath wouldn't care about how others view them.

Of course they do. Not in the way that a person with empathy does, but based purely on utility. Sociopaths expend a significant amount of energy in creating and maintaining their "mask". They care very much how people view them because it affects their ability to manipulate and control those people.

Tipping has nothing to do with empathy.

Tipping has everything to do with empathy because it's all about doing right by others even when we're not compelled to. Without empathy we'd have absolutely no motivation to tip anyone. What we would have is selfishness which is a motive to not tip - something you've done a sterling job in demonstrating.

Not at all, your words prove me right.

Normal people don't throw words like ''sociopath'' around based on a few forum posts.

Most people don't even know what a sociopath is....

Anyhow, if your argument is thematically lacking in any evidence of empathy, (as is every other argument of your 14000 post count, of which I have sampled a statistically significant number), it's going to be noticeable. And while I get that it might upset you to have such a massive flaw exposed, and much though you'd love to try and brush it under the carpet, you cannot honestly expect me to just ignore it.

So either you're not normal or you think you have some sort of moral highground, which you don't.

Where do you get this idea that people think they have some sort of moral highground? It's a non sequitur.

What would be fair is what's on the bill.

You need to provide a backing for this statement otherwise it's worthless.

What consideration? Waiters aren't some sort of helpless abuse victims.

I never said they were. It's kinda funny how desperate you are to discredit me that you'll start making shit like this up.

They willingly enter this business and they get paid far more than they should be paid when you account for tips, which also don't get taxed.

They willingly enter the business with the understanding that a 15%-20% tip is standard if they do their job well. And who the hell are you to mightily proclaim that they "get paid far more than they should"? (and yet you like to accuse me of "taking the moral high ground")?

Why would I have consideration for tax evaders that rely on shame tactics to earn wages comparable to those of people with an education?

That's a pretty impressive strawman you've constucted there. Boy, you really know all the tricks on how to evade engaging on the pertinent points of an argument

Your argument is " This is wrong because I say so "

No, that's your argument. Seriously dude, you cannot seriously accuse me of failing to provide substance. Pretty much every statement I make has a backing and warrant (unlike yours), to the point that a lot of readers here probably roll their eyes at the amount of text I produce.

so there's no reason for me to use ad hominem. Nor did I. You don't seem to understand what ad hominem is.

You did. "But you're just the typical Facebook soccer mom commenter, who feels the need to flaunt how good of a human being they are in order to get attention."

I mean it's laughable that you even attempt to deny it. In lieu of presenting any kind of argument you've simply concluded that my opinion is worthless because of who/what I am.

At any rate, my argument is that you shouldn't tip because waiters willingly accept their wage, don't pay taxes out of tips and this toxic industry is allowing them to earn as much as someone that studied their ass off.

That is not an argument. It's an assertion. An argument requires backing and warrant. You have to support your claim with valid reasons if you expect it to carry any weight.

I have also addressed pretty much every point you made already, and you have failed to counter my arguments (again, all you do is repeat your assertion, without any reasoning, as if we're all supposed to just accept your authority)

1) If the standard practice is to tip the waiter, then their willing acceptance of the job inherently comes with the expectation that they will be tipped accordingly provided they put in the effort.
2) Their tax affairs are between them and the IRS and quite frankly, none of your business. Whether or not they pay taxes on their tips has no bearing on whether you should be paying those tips. Two wrongs do not a make a right.
3) That last statement is appalling. Firstly I seriously doubt that your average waiter even makes close to what your average graduate makes. Secondly, would it even wrong if waiters would be able to earn as much as graduates (assuming commensurate levels of effort and commitment)? Your comment comes across as highly narcissistic and entitled.

The individual fucked himself over by accepting a 3$/hr job and expecting to get more at the expense of the citizens that did not hire him.

Dude, this retarded assertion by you has been rebutted, with reasons, multiple times. Repeating it isn't going to make you right.

If the standard in the country is not to tip, then a waiter shouldn't expect to get tipped. If the standard in the country is to tip (as is the case in point), then it is only reasonable that the waiter should expect to get tipped. It's not rocket science

You're asking me to have compassion for people that put themselves in that position. None given.

Any rational and empathic person will see this explanation as being nothing but a weak and selfish justification for being a dick. Again, note, I am not trying to say you can't take this attitude. Everyone has the right to choose to be a dick. But then don't get offended when you get called out for it (and before you try your tired "high moral ground" bs again, how do you know I tip?)

[Grishnaar]

Ah yes, the eternal what's the right way.

I'm not from US and I tip if the service is good. I don't care about %, it can even be 50% if the service is that good and I have that much money.

That said, I really dislike how US does it, cause they essentially gave permission to pay the minimum to the worker/waiter and basically "transfered" a part of the cost to the buyer with their "mandatory tip".

Let's get something straight. If it's mandatory, it's not a tip. It's part of the price.
No matter how you suger coat it, there are those who can see through the BS.

Then again, that's only IMHO and who cares what I think

[LMuhlen]

In here it is expected to tip 10% and it comes on the bill. I recently went to a place that charged 12%. I'm never going back there.

If there was a restaurant that had a sign "We don't expect tips, we pay our staff decently" I would prioritize eating there whenever I felt like going out. Yes, the food would be 10% more expensive, but I value transparency.

If the tipping system is so great, why only so few segments use it? I've never seen someone tip their teachers, and they get payed way less than they should. Same goes for every segment out there, why not tip your doctor, your accountant, your police officer...

People should treat others well because it is their nature to do so, not because they expect to be payed extra for it. "If you don't pay tips you are a sociopath". What does that say about the waiters who will spit on your food if you don't grease their hands? They are the sociopaths.

If you want to be nice to the professionals that you value, give them a gift. Give them a flower, a chocolate, whatever works. Maybe if people gifted others more often, we wouldn't need crappy holidays meant to boost gift sales, by imposing guilt. Giving money makes people reliant on it, then they guilt trip you into feeling responsible for their survival.

I understand that the system is now well established and that fighting against it may affect negatively the "innocent" people involved in the trade. But people who want it changed should have a way to exercise their preference.

[pateuvasiliu]

Wall of text

This is a great example of a statement lacking in empathy.

No, it's not. Having empathy for people that do not WANT to change their situation is not only redundant but stupid. You don't have empathy for the beggar that uses money to buy more smokes, that's just stupidity.

Waiters are not victims, they're people making several times more money than people with an education.

Of course they do. Not in the way that a person with empathy does, but based purely on utility

You're talking a lot out of your ass.

Tipping has everything to do with empathy because it's all about doing right by others even when we're not compelled to. Without empathy we'd have absolutely no motivation to tip anyone.

LOL do you tip the woman at McDonald's ? Do you tip the janitors?

You spout a bunch of bullshit. No, you tip because you're brainwashed/shamed into thinking you have to.

Anyhow, if your argument is thematically lacking in any evidence of empathy

No, that's just your opinion, an opinion which is worthless due to your brainwashing on the matter.

Where do you get this idea that people think they have some sort of moral highground?

Your post, social media, just about anywhere people can post you'll find them filming themselves doing good deeds so that everyone knows how good of a human being they are.

And I judge your posts as no different.

You need to provide a backing for this statement otherwise it's worthless.

It's worthless if you can't logic.

The bill/menu clearly says what you have to pay. That's what you pay. You don't have a duty to do anything else.

The Waiter's contract says 3$ an hour. If that's too low, don't take the job. Really simple.

There are plenty people out there that are underpaid, but you only tip the waiters because you know you'd be shamed otherwise.

I never said they were.

If they aren't victims and voluntarily choose their job, then there's no reason to feel empathy for them.

They willingly enter the business with the understanding that a 15%-20% tip is standard

Non spoken laws and agreements don't mean anything.

They enter the business willingly knowing they get 3$ an hour and COULD get something more than that.

That's a pretty impressive strawman you've constucted there.

Not at all, that's exactly what they are.

No, that's your argument.

No, that's yours. Your whole argument is appealing to emotion which is hilarious because waiters don't NEED your pity, they're too busy making more money than people who spent years in school.

You did. "But you're just the typical Facebook soccer mom commenter, who feels the need to flaunt how good of a human being they are in order to get attention."

I mean it's laughable that you even attempt to deny it. In lieu of presenting any kind of argument you've simply concluded that my opinion is worthless because of who/what I am.

That wasn't ad hominem. That was my opinion of you. Your argument isn't bad because you're a facebook soccer mom, it's bad because you appeal to emotion for a group of people that aren't victims and willingly enter their contract.

That is not an argument. It's an assertion. An argument requires backing and warrant. You have to support your claim with valid reasons if you expect it to carry any weight.

People illegally earning more than their contract says and not paying taxes for it isn't an assertion, it's literally what they do.

Whereas the ones who actually studied their ass off pay taxes and earn less. So yes, I'm against such a toxic industry.

1) If the standard practice is to tip the waiter, then their willing acceptance of the job inherently comes with the expectation that they will be tipped accordingly provided they put in the effort.

The standard practice is creater by their employer. If they're too moronic to realise that their employer is using the money of other people to pay them, that's their problem.

2) Their tax affairs are between them and the IRS and quite frankly, none of your business.

It is my business when they don't pay taxes. And give me a break, you know they don't.

Sorry, but I refuse to pay tax evaders who mooch off society while giving nothing in return.

3) That last statement is appalling. Firstly I seriously doubt that your average waiter even makes close to what your average graduate makes.

https://www1.salary.com/Mechanical-E...rly-wages.html

The median for a mechanical engineer is 32$ an hour. You have posters in this thread describing 25$/hr as a slow day. So there you go.

Secondly, would it even wrong if waiters would be able to earn as much as graduates (assuming commensurate levels of effort and commitment)?

Yes it would be, because the graduate studied for years, pays taxes and probably has student loans. It very much would be.

And if you're comparing the effort of a waiter to that of an engineer it's pretty clear that you replaced your education with your so called, highly praised empathy.

Dude, this retarded assertion by you has been rebutted, with reasons, multiple times

It's been ''rebutted'' by YOU with appeals to emotion and an argument that boils down to " everyone does it so you must do it too ".

This " 3$/hr is accepted because they expect tips " is laughably stupid. Also you do realise they get paid minimum wage if they don't get tips, right? That just destroys your whole ''argument'' ( which isn't an argument at all, really )

Any rational and empathic person

You don't get to decide that.

how do you know I tip?)

You seem like the type of person who would fall for it.

[Freighter]

Empathy is the ability to feel what other people feel. It is a motivation for helping those in need.

Those in need already have programs paid for by the taxes people pay.

Tipping has everything to do with empathy because it's all about doing right by others even when we're not compelled to. Without empathy we'd have absolutely no motivation to tip anyone. What we would have is selfishness which is a motive to not tip - something you've done a sterling job in demonstrating.

It's not right to pay someones wage when the employer is supposed to do that.

[pateuvasiliu]

Those in need already have programs paid for by the taxes people pay.



It's not right to pay someones wage when the employer is supposed to do that.

And ironically those in need have programs paid by the guy who tips, because that guy pays taxes.

Unlike the waiter.

[bshoults]

Someone may have said this, but restaurant workers don't get paid minimum wage the majority of the time. They rely on tips as part of their wages. I tip 20% regardless of service (unless it was horrible, or amazing).

[quras]

How much do you normally tip someone.?

10% is customary for decent/good service. Higher (15% or more) if you get great service. Lower if service is bad.

Do you have to Tip ?

You are never required to tip but it is something you should do if you are being served by someone. Gauge how much on how well they do.

If you have 2 people serving you.. do you tip both ?

You can but that is not normally done. You leave a tip on the table based on the amount of your check and the percent you plan to leave. It's not per waiter/waitress. It's always mainly based on your receipt but extra could be added automatically depending on how large your party is.

[pateuvasiliu]

Someone may have said this, but restaurant workers don't get paid minimum wage the majority of the time. They rely on tips as part of their wages. I tip 20% regardless of service (unless it was horrible, or amazing).

So? Why is it your job to pick up the slack for the employer?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If they keep my drink filled up, the order is right, they don't forget about me, and the place is decent enough I just drop a 20 down usually. That is for 2 adults, a teen, and a kid. So when we go out its usually about 80-100 bucks unless its fast food.

[bshoults]

So? Why is it your job to pick up the slack for the employer?

Unlike the waiter.

It's a crappy system (they should be paid a fair wage regardless). It's the only industry that it's legal to pay them almost nothing. If tips were not part of the equation, then the price of your meal would go up accordingly. If you can't afford to tip 15-20%, then you shouldn't be eating out. If you can, but refuse to because the employer should (but won't) pick up the slack, then, well, all I can say is that karma will find you.

edit: restaurant service (and valet) are the only times I truly feel like I need to tip.

Waiters pay taxes too. They're required to pay taxes on the money they make just like everyone else. Some don't, most do. You honestly sound like you think you're better than service workers. Have a little humility and compassion.

[pateuvasiliu]

It's a crappy system (they should be paid a fair wage regardless). It's the only industry that it's legal to pay them almost nothing. If tips were not part of the equation, then the price of your meal would go up accordingly. If you can't afford to tip 15-20%, then you shouldn't be eating out. If you can, but refuse to because the employer should (but won't) pick up the slack, then, well, all I can say is that karma will find you.

edit: restaurant service (and valet) are the only times I truly feel like I need to tip.

Waiters pay taxes too. They're required to pay taxes on the money they make just like everyone else. Some don't, most do. You honestly sound like you think you're better than service workers. Have a little humility and compassion.

THEY ARE

If they don't make tips, they get minimum wage.

If tips were not part of the equation, then the price of your meal would go up accordingly. If you can't afford to tip 15-20%, then you shouldn't be eating out.

I can afford to tip 300% I just refuse to because I don't pick up the slack for others.

Waiters pay taxes too. They're required to pay taxes on the money they make just like everyone else. Some don't, most do. You honestly sound like you think you're better than service workers.

No, they don't. There's no chance in hell they pay taxes for the tips.

And I don't have any compassion towards people that sign a contract expecting more than what the contract writes. That's just being stupid.

Have a little humility

I'll have humility when waiters don't make as much as engineers who busted their asses off studying do.

[Kathandira]

Servers do NOT typically split their tips with the cooking staff

Indeed. In NJ it is illegal to enforce tip splitting with the kitchen staff. They get paid above minimum wage.

[Altrec]

I mean if even 50% of those working as servers said "This is unacceptable we want a change" that's a significant number to surely warrant Government interest

They don't because with the tipping system they make really good money and switching to a system that doesn't revolve around tipping will likely result in a pay cut for them.

[Deleted]

I never tip. It's not my job to pay people's wages.

[Jam Spoon]

I have a question about tipping in the US in hotels - who do you have to tip and how much?

[Deleted]

LoL mandatory tipping. I guess the american public got cucked so hard when it comes to wagers, better move the responsibility onto the customers instead!

[Unholyground]

I smile thinking about what is happening to your food that you don't see. If you don't want to tip for proper service don't go out to places with wait staff. Its not their fault how the system works.

You people fail to understand that if we got rid of tipping, food prices would just go up to adjust for the higher wages, and then they would have no motivation to do a good job?

I'm telling you Euros/Asians.... Tip, or just don't eat out in America, or go ahead and be a jerk but do not eat in the same place twice. It doesn't matter if you don't understand it, but just accept it if you vacation here. Why is a few dollars such a huge damn deal?

Depends on many things, not all states allow places to play under minimum. It is also in a lot of European and Asian cultures considered an insult if you tip. In Canada it is pretty sweet because every province has a minimum wage and you cannot pay below that or you are not allowed to be in business. The US seems to be pretty far behind when it comes to employer standards looking at it as an outsider.

[Rexosaurus]

I have a question about tipping in the US in hotels - who do you have to tip and how much?

Most people that leave tips in hotels just leave $2-3 for the maid that's gonna come in and clean. Maybe kick it up a couple more dollars if you leave a bit of a mess. Way less people tip in hotels though, it's more of an etiquette thing than an expected fee.

If you're at some boujee ass place then you might also tip the bellhop or room service if you use them.