Active shooter situation at Florida high school, at least 20 injured so far

[Priestiality]

It is not flawed. If you think someone is willing to have their guns and feel they are willing to pay the cost of children getting killed for it, then the same can be said of many other things we can legally own. You want to limit it to just firearms. But you do not get to be that restrictive with your logic. :P

Except this argument is fallacious because only one of those things is designed specifically to end lives, and in the case of AR types, HUMAN lives.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Doesn't matter if we ban guns, if it's not an AR it will be a bag full of pipe bombs.

When has anything gotten better by simply taking something away? Didn't we learn anything from alcohol?

Never unless it isn't a meaningless gesture, otherwise, why do we have speed limits on the highway?

I mean we all must agree to it at some point that it safer that people can simply decide how fast they want to go, when they wanna

[Ghostpanther]

More likely he would end up killing you and your entire family with that said gun as per statistics.

I guess the fake safe feeling wins out in the US tho.

What would you do if he entered yur home at night without any sort of weapon besides his fists. Punched your wife and started stealing your shit? You telling me you wouldnt grab that gun and shoot at him?

I would tell him to freeze if I feel I have time to. He keeps moving toward or us or makes any other threatening move, I would shoot his ass and be justified by the law in my state. Look up Castle Doctrine for basic knowledge.

[Gaidax]

If you are going to resort to personal insults, our discussions will be over. But to respectfully answer your comment, those type of situations such as the Vegas shooting, are very rare. Where the shooter is going to be several stories above you.

And in this shooting gunman had assault rifle and popped fire alarm and in other shooting other means of advantage were employed.

You are naive if you think gunmen don't have advantage, they do, always. The odds are against you, it is not equal ground as you seem to delude yourself.

[Pickynerd]

Try looking at Australia and their gun control. If all you wanted was a specific case where EXACTLY this worked then i guess i did some good today turning a gun lobbyist into a decent human being

Shit like this,




or do you want a speech from Hillary Clinton on how well it has worked?

[Ghostpanther]

Ghost - stop. Your driving analogy involves accidents. Gun crime that we're discussing is on purpose. Analogy inherently flawed.

Someone driving a car at a high speed, recklessly and endangering others , can still kill others. Better ban those. But wait, we are willing at the cost of kids losing their lives to pay the price.

[Bladesyphon]

As much as I really don't want to get into a topic like this, I think there are a few things to be said here in terms of what's going on, and why flat out removing guns isn't going to help anything.

But first - my condolences to the family and friends of the victims of this act of heinous violence. No child should ever feel threatened when they go to school, and it should, ALWAYS, be a safe place where they can go to learn, be with their friends, and live what should be some of the best years of their lives, something I was gifted to have back when I was in high school from 2001-2005.

Anyways, onto the subject at hand - Yes, I agree as does I'm sure most people here that stricter gun control should be put in place. Frankly there's really no reason for someone to own an automatic rifle that is in anyway usable. Note that I said usable, because I'll be the first to say that I think Guns, and really any weapon for that matter, are sleek, gorgeous, and just plain pretty to look at, and even hold. But there's a difference between liking a weapon, and wanting to use it to harm another person. It's why people who own swords dull the blades, and I feel that while we shouldn't flat out bar people from owning guns, weapons that are beyond something like a hunting rifle, handgun, or buck-shot shotgun, should be gutted to the point of not being usable.

That said - I also don't feel that tighter gun controls are going to solve this problem, at all, and there's a simple reason for that. We as a species are very, VERY good at finding ways to kill one another. If someone really, truly, wants to end the life of a person ,or a group of people, they are going to find a way to accomplish that goal, guns or not. I think people seem to forget how easy it is for someone to make an explosive device at home (IE: Pipebombs), bring it into school, walk into a busy lunchroom, and blow themselves up, along with everyone around them. We see this all the time in the news in other countries, usually from religious extremists, but it's not wholly isolated to them.

Let's take the shooter in yesterday's incident (his name will not be used, I'm not giving any more attention to him then I need to). Let's say that we lived in a country where we had strict gun controls, but still didn't address the major problem here - the fact that he was mentally disturbed, terribly distressed, and orphaned. He still would have had that desire to inflict harm to people he felt wronged him. He may not have had a gun, but he would have found some other way. Perhaps he would have used an IED, or maybe not. Maybe he would have j ust walked into the school with a knife, and started slitting kids throats, stabbing them, and causing grievous injury that way. Perhaps in this situation, seventeen children wouldn't have died, perhaps only five or six would have died before he was stopped.

But does that matter? Children.Still.Would.Have.Died. To the parents of those kids, nothing about yesterday would have been different. Their world would have still be destroyed. Their child's lived would have been ended, and they'd still be grieving. Then what? Would we talk about stricter knife control? What if it was an IED, would we then look at how he learned to craft it from the internet, and start having stricter internet regulations? Frankly, - yes, that's what would have happened. And why is that?

It's because I truly do believe that the problem we have in our country is that we refuse to acknoweldge the root of the problem - The gun is a tool, the person behind the gun is the murderer, and more often then not in settings like this, the murder is done due to the gunman having serious mental issues that NO ONE has addressed. Now do not get me wrong, I am not taking sympathy for this gunman at all, but the motive to any murder is extremely important, and going back as far as Columbine, we know that the majority of these killings are done by people who are mentally compromised, severely depressed, and need help. But they never receive that help, and I honestly could not tell you why. I'm not sure if it's because we're afraid to acknoweldge that mental health is an issue, or if it's simply because it's easier to blame guns, video games, violent media, or any other scapegoat over it.

But at the end of the day - killings like this won't stop until we start addressing the root problem - the person doing the killing, and why they're killing people. Take away guns, and they'll find some other way to cause these violent crimes. Guns are a tool, and there are plenty of other tools out there that can do the job a gun can.

[Ghostpanther]

And in this shooting gunman had assault rifle and popped fire alarm and in other shooting other means of advantage were employed.

You are naive if you think gunmen don't have advantage, they do, always. The odds are against you, it is not equal ground as you seem to delude yourself.

Esp, if the victims are not armed. And no, they are humans and no human can cover all the people, all the time.

- - - Updated - - -

Except this argument is fallacious because only one of those things is designed specifically to end lives, and in the case of AR types, HUMAN lives.

What about the SKS types?

[Al Gorefiend]

I honestly wonder just how difficult it is to purchase an illegal firearm in the US.

We all say it's probably easy, but I am curious. I mean it certainly has to be more expensive than a legally obtained gun, a $1000 AR probably would double if not triple in price if the weapon was purchased illegally, and that's with ARs being fairly easy to obtain right now legally, how much more would the price jump up, if ARs were outright illegal, or at the very least much harder to obtain legally.

That alone is a block to getting a hold of a gun illegally. Yeah you may be able to purchase a crap .22 for a couple hundred but a more serious gun would probably be quite expensive.

It seems like a lot of the high profile shootings of late the person with the gun purchased the gun legally, even if they weren't supposed to be able to (such as the guy who was dishonorably discharged).

It's very easy.

I think most people don't realize how easy it is to get illegal things, which is a good thing.

Anybody in this thread, American or not, could have an assault rifle, a rufie, pure heroin, child pornography, sex-traded prostitutes in their hands by this weekend.

[Elegiac]

Someone driving a car at a high speed, recklessly and endangering others , can still kill others. Better ban those. But wait, we are willing at the cost of kids losing their lives to pay the price.

Because cars totally don't provide some other compelling public benefit that justifies the opportunity cost, right?

Guns have no compelling public benefit besides making idiots feel like big men.

[SavoirFaire]

Reducing an amount of 300 million guns in circulation seems a nearly impossible task. It would take decades at least to get any significant results. Still, it's the only thing that can be attempted to reduce the number of shootings. There sure as hell aren't going to be less fucked up individuals in this world.

I'm always curious as to how the Aussies got the guns out of the hands of the criminals. We in the US can't do that NOW, what exactly is a repeal of the 2nd amendment going to do to fix that, unless one repeals a few other amendments too while they're at it.

[Deleted]

So, the 18th school shooting this year... That makes 18 shootings in 45 days. At this rate, there will be 146 school shootings this year. Mass shootings, of course, will already be above once per day, there having been 427 such in 2017.

Rather grim data.

[Gaidax]

Esp, if the victims are not armed. And no, they are humans and no human can cover all the people, all the time.

- - - Updated - - -



What about the SKS types?

We have to arm the children, good idea there. I already told you, cut the crap, you think a handgun here and there on a bunch of teachers would solve this? They would get gunned down with assault rifle before they would make a peep and you would still get same 17 casualties. Why? Because there are no heroes and teachers won't be frikkin rushing to confront a guy with bloody AR, they will turn tail and run as fuck screeching and begging for their lives.

[ManiaCCC]

what a morron, are all leftists like that?
the moment you take the guns away of people, you will have a situation like sweden or germany.
id rather have 20 guns in my home and 2-3 shootings every year, than millions of blackpeople and arabs killing and raping tousands per year.

None of this is true.

There is not millions of arabs killing and raping thousands in any Europe country and we had already 18 school shootings in USA this year..it is not even march.

You are an idiot. Plain and simple

[Deleted]

I would tell him to freeze if I feel I have time to. He keeps moving toward or us or makes any other threatening move, I would shoot his ass and be justified by the law in my state. Look up Castle Doctrine for basic knowledge.

And that is exactly what i said earlier when you said i didnt have a clue about your laws.

I said the problem in the US is the extreme escalation that stuff like your casual gun laws leads to.

You guys would shoot unarmed people because you felt threatened. Its not that i dont understand the logic behind doing it. Its that the acces to these lethal weapons make stuff like that possible.

[Ghostpanther]

It's true though. If someone walks up to you in the middle of the street and slaps you across the face, you can shoot them dead, and a good lawyer will get you a slap on the wrist.

Hell in my own neighborhood a kid got shot dead for TP'ing a man's house on Halloween night and the metal flashlight he had unlit in his coat pocket was mistaken for a gun. Man opens his door, kid reaches for his flashlight, gets shot dead.

"I *thought* my life was in danger" is the only defense you need.

Wrong. You need to show you had a fear for your life. The law inside your home however, gives you that right simply if someone breaks into your home or vehicle. Armed or not. In Ohio. But in Ohio, out in the public, we have the duty to retreat if there is a reasonable option to do so. Simple shooting someone who tries to slap you, would not be grounds to use deadly force. If one is going to carry a firearm, you need to know your states laws.

[Deleted]

2-3 shootings every year

2-3 shootings every year?

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data/2017

Try 400+ mass shootings every year.

[Ghostpanther]

Because cars totally don't provide some other compelling public benefit that justifies the opportunity cost, right?

Guns have no compelling public benefit besides making idiots feel like big men.

In your opinion. I think they can be very useful for self defense. And SCOTUS agrees.

[Deleted]

Shit like this,




or do you want a speech from Hillary Clinton on how well it has worked?

His statistics are nonsense.

He is talking about how the amount of sexual assault victims have risen.

Gun control doesnt stop criminals being criminals it stops people shooting eachother with guns

[Ghostpanther]

And that is exactly what i said earlier when you said i didnt have a clue about your laws.

I said the problem in the US is the extreme escalation that stuff like your casual gun laws leads to.

You guys would shoot unarmed people because you felt threatened. Its not that i dont understand the logic behind doing it. Its that the acces to these lethal weapons make stuff like that possible.

Which I am thankful I have that right here.