Afrocentrism is just as misguided as any other kind of ethno-nationalism.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

And Africans successfully conquered Spain in the 8th century until the 15th century. I would say that life in the Moorish civilization and the Ghanian/Mali civilization that fueled it was actually superior to dark-age European life at that time. Moorish Spain was probably the best place to live in Europe up to the time of Columbus.

Europeans DID strip Africa of its resources and purposely destabilize local governments in order to better control the local people. They did the exact same thing in the Americas and Asia as well, so I'm simply not seeing your general point here. Africans fell to the Europeans just like anyone else, mainly because of the industrial revolution. The same industrial revolution that led to Europeans slaughtering themselves in record numbers in WW1 and WW2.

The point, is Afrocentrics like to lay all the ills of modern Africa at the feet of colonial Europeans, when in truth, Europeans were able to colonize the places they did because so many of those ills were already in effect. Sub Saharan Africa was merly one of the more extreme examples, though Polynesia does jump out in my mind as being more so, but ultimately for the same reasons of geographic isolation and lack of trade with the wider world.

You saying the disparity was only because of the industrial revolution ignores that the particular set of social conditions existant in Europe, and in particular Britain, at the time allowed the industrial revolution to happen there and not somewhere else.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I love the way the movie says more about the person who watches it, as opposed to actually saying anything in the movie.
It's like Get Out, where the movie is far more mundane than people think going into it. You see the promotional pieces for it, going in thinking it's a movie about racism, but it isn't, the only racism in the movie is actually by the people who watch it, because you assumed you knew what the movie was about.
Except Get Out does this on purpose, and Black Panther simply is a black super hero movie which get an unhealthy amount of attention for an all black cast and crew. Granted the way the movie was promoted pushed it in this direction, but that doesn't stop the idolatry or vitirol from being disturbing.

Well I don't agree about Get Out, that was racist towards white people, and honestly I don't say that very often, and It was intended as such, but that is my opinion, I didn't open a thread about it, or go on some kind of crusade against it.

People can take away from it whatever they want, I think this movie is different because it's my impression they were just trying to be positive alone and provide some superhero characters that were could and could be inspiring for everyone especially some that don't get to see it like this very often, like say Wonder Woman did.


Although I don't expect any documentaries about some horny lonely dudes trying to find that Amazon Island on Discovery Channel until At least 2019

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Black panther is an example of why closed off countries are bad in a way. The king had to eventually destroy the material his suit was made out of because it made his country a target. Wakanda also rely on the help of other countries during crisis.

[Elegiac]

The point, is Afrocentrics like to lay all the ills of modern Africa at the feet of colonial Europeans, when in truth, Europeans were able to colonize the places they did because so many of those ills were already in effect. Sub Saharan Africa was merly one of the more extreme examples, though Polynesia does jump out in my mind as being more so, but ultimately for the same reasons of geographic isolation and lack of trade with the wider world.

Not all. Just most.

It's pretty blatant you're just trying to excuse the extremely negative and continued impacts of colonialism and pass it off as the fault of African people that their countries are unstable and poor.

You saying the disparity was only because of the industrial revolution ignores that the particular set of social conditions existant in Europe, and in particular Britain, at the time allowed the industrial revolution to happen there and not somewhere else.

Social conditions which have not been concretely identified, so they aren't particularly useful in analysing the exact impact of colonialism.

[Rukario]

LoL! Africa has always been a continent filled with very different people. It's the second largest continent in the world. I don't know why people think a single people could take over the entire continent and unify it into an empire.

Strong rulers existed in various parts of the continent throughout the centuries just like anywhere else.

I am not talking about having the whole continent under a single banner...but having countries and great cities.
Strong ruler as in the tribal chiefs, small warlords etc...most of Africa was already a shit show way before the europeans came, it's not the PC version of things but it is what it is.
The only reason exploring it was so easy was because they lacked unity.

[PC2]

That you think comparison between societies is done in order to establish how 'good' X is versus Y is highly amusing. And also divorced from any serious historical analysis.

I say look at the data to establish how much a society creates opportunity and safety for its citizens. Your view is one of nihilism, that you can't ever say one culture creates superior outcomes over any other.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

Hint: When you say "civilizational progress", you've already distanced yourself from any serious academic study.

What term would you prefer to describe moments in time where a particular culture in a particular place reaches a high point in it's technological advancement and cultural influence relative to other places and peoples. I'm open to any suggestions you have on the matter.

[Tiwack]

snip

Strange perspective but you conveniently forget the guy holding the whip. Africa is no different than every other place on earth in regards to carrots and whips. The internal strife tears apart civilizations as quick as they rise. When people turn their back on humanity and empathy chaos ensues.

[Elegiac]

I say look at the data to establish how much a society creates opportunity and safety for its citizens. Your view is one of nihilism, that you can't ever say one culture creates superior outcomes over any other.

"You say" is not how serious historical analysis is done.

Is "nihilism" the new buzzword for "objectivity"? Lol.

- - - Updated - - -

What term would you prefer to describe moments in time where a particular culture in a particular place reaches a high point in it's technological advancement and cultural influence relative to other places and peoples. I'm open to any suggestions you have on the matter.

Preponderance, hegemony, imperium, etc.

History isn't a linear progression, neither is human society.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

There are no parallels and you citing black nationalism or black supremacy doesn't actually embolden your arguments. Stupid people are stupid people, and people fixated on the color of their skin as their only claim to anything are pathetic.

It's a damn movie, which granted maybe it does have influence and art can do that, but instead of making it about racism and the past, perhaps it could simply be a springboard into something more positive.

Like hey maybe inspiration for more people to do things like apply the best of themselves, to stick up for others even if they aren't like them, and band together and protect the values everybody can share.

I mean I might getting a bit carried away there, but at the very least it's just a movie 2 hours of escapism which I don't see what the hell there is any harm in, especially in a world where everybody hates one another and wants to shoot everything up.

Perhaps if people once in a while could be left the hell alone and relax and enjoy a simple mindless movie then maybe that is all the positivity there needs to be.

In my original post I said I'm not criticizing the movie, and will likely see it. I'm criticizing the notions of a number of people making social commentary about the movie.

[McFuu]

Well I don't agree about Get Out, that was racist towards white people, and honestly I don't say that very often, and It was intended as such, but that is my opinion, I didn't open a thread about it, or go on some kind of crusade against it.

People can take away from it whatever they want, I think this movie is different because it's my impression they were just trying to be positive alone and provide some superhero characters that were could and could be inspiring for everyone especially some that don't get to see it like this very often, like say Wonder Woman did.


Although I don't expect any documentaries about some horny lonely dudes trying to find that Amazon Island on Discovery Channel until At least 2019

What do you mean racist towards white people?

I think I understand what you are talking about. I'd say that even though the writers dangled cues inferring that the white people in the movie were racists, that never played out. It made you believe they movie was going in one direction, but without evidence. The audience filled in the blank when you assumed these cues were pointing to one conclusion.

[Elegiac]

In my original post I said I'm not criticizing the movie, and will likely see it. I'm criticizing the notions of a number of people making social commentary about the movie.

You're criticizing people making social commentary about a movie you haven't seen by...making social commentary about a movie you haven't seen.

Okay.

[Steelangel]

Yeah, that's categorically false. There were several extremely wealthy, stable, and technologically advanced African kingdoms before European colonization. Egypt, Kush, Mali, Ghanan, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, and the Swahili City-states just to name a few.

There were! But also keep in mind that the first large scale colonization of Africa was by the Arabs. Heck, the Songhai people were defeated by the Moroccans, after the Songhai beat the Malians, and all of them were Islamic because of missionaries and conquests by the Ummayads.

[Nadiru]

European expansion, especially that of the Anglo-Saxons, didn't happen because they were always an advanced or powerful people. Prior to 500 years ago, Northwest Europe was an insignificant backwater on the edge of the Eurasian landmass filled with squabbling tribes more preoccupied with killing each-other than just about anything else. That all changed when those people embraced trade with the greater world, organized themselves into coherent nation states, and started amassing the resources required to support a population boom. The rest is history.

What the fuck? European expansion to the New World was driven not by trade with foreign partners but as a way to circumvent trade with foreign partners, in that case the Ottomans and Venetians.

[Doctor Amadeus]

In my original post I said I'm not criticizing the movie, and will likely see it. I'm criticizing the notions of a number of people making social commentary about the movie.

It's a movie no more serious than LOTR's yes some people for stupid reasons believe it some kind of revealing of the Matrix or something, but these people need mental help and understanding, not to be taken seriously

[Martymark]

Ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, and nationalism are the same regardless of what tribe you belong to and what tribe you hate.

[Doctor Amadeus]

What do you mean racist towards white people?

I think I understand what you are talking about. I'd say that even though the writers dangled cues inferring that the white people in the movie were racists, that never played out. It made you believe they movie was going in one direction, but without evidence. The audience filled in the blank when you assumed these cues were pointing to one conclusion.

Yes, and I would be less than honest if the same were done in the same and the races were reversed, that is all I am saying, but it isn't the end of the world, and at the end of the day, if I don't like it, I won't watch it.

Like White Chicks, there is some truth to if it were called Black Chicks yes some would for sure lose their minds LOL!

[PC2]

Is "nihilism" the new buzzword for "objectivity"? Lol.

You do objective analysis with objective metrics? I would be impressed if you didn't prioritize subject-based emotional metrics.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Hahaha yes, that will for sure be humanity, and you can already see it NOW!

[xskarma]

This thread is purely about race issues, which is against the forum rules. Closing this.



CLOSED.