Time travel Orcs are a Tumor on the setting

[AxellSlade]

Time travel, like the one that happens the minute all and any Allied Race character sets foot in the world? Yeah.

[Aucald]

Yeah the Warcraft movie was in production for literally 5 years if you had been paying attention. And yes, literally. WoD was so much about the movie it hurt. It brought back "iconic" old characters just like the ones in the movie you could relate to! It brought back badass clever Khagdar omg so cool.

Which actually makes the argument for it being a tie-in even weaker, if you think about it. Movie development and game development timelines would be next to impossible to sync up. But even then, refer to my previous argument above: WoD and the "Warcraft" movie are entirely different stories focusing on entirely differently things. The "iconic" characters that WoD brings back are AU fractured fairy-tale versions of the characters we knew, recast entirely as antagonistic without even the excuse of the demonic corruption and set against two protagonist factions accordingly. And the two Khadgars in WoD and the movie couldn't be anymore different - one of them is a wisecracking old man and veteran master of magic, the other is a vacillating and wet behind the ears novice Mage with ill-defined "potential." The name Khadgar is the only thing they share, actually; everything else is entirely different (and the movie Khadgar bares little to no similarity to the youthful Khadgar of "The Last Guardian"). The Orcish protagonist of "Warcraft" is more or less a secondary character in WoD, and the Human protagonist is utterly absent - the movie "Warcraft" is some kind of odd AU retelling of the First War, and WoD is set *before* the First War even happens and alters history in such a way that the First War can't even occur in its continuity. As with Khadgar, literally the only things shared in common between WoD and "Warcraft" are people and place names - other than that, you might as well be comparing apples to lampshades.

Only an idiot that couldn't possibly read between the lines of marketing would ever think WoD was anything but pure movie marketing while trying to sell a cata-esque remake of TBC but with a lore reason why both can exist at the same time, because the revamp of Cata had extremely mixed reception.

I don't think we're reading the same message between the lines, or the same lines. I think the big tie-in was more or less a general one, i.e. "we've got this hugely popular video game that millions of people play across the world, and now here's a feature film about how it all started." They don't need to create a specific expansion like WoD to sell that message - you could sell that with *any* expansion you released for the game. I believe their thinking was less the strategic "so to try to sell this movie let's reintroduce every character from WC1 back into the game" and more the generalized "so to try to sell this movie let's do something *crazy* that everyone will like and will drum up subscription numbers." Again, that's got nothing to do with the specifics of WoD, and everything to do with trying to line up an expansion story-arc that used every Rule of Cool convention that could possibly be used (and which ironically blew up in everyone's face accordingly). An even better tie-in pitch would've been to release Legion in the place of WoD, given their relative popularity disparity, but hindsight is 20/20.

Put two and two together, stop being a moron, I'm sorry if I'm insulting you, but you sound like one of those people that can't possibly learn unless it's shoved right into your face like a puppy doing a shit on the floor.

That seems to be what happens when people disagree, I don't really know why - it never helps but people do it anyways. Peppering your argument with insults only makes your opponent inclined to tunnel into their argument even harder, even if that makes no rational sense (which is probably your takeaway of my arguments above). If it helps, I don't think you're a moron or require me to shove anything in your face because you're too feckless to know better - I just think you're being overly hyperbolic and entirely too cynical, and allowing your dislike of WoD to set up some kind of frame for a conspiracy-like excuse as to why it went down like a lead balloon. I just see the two things as completely disconnected - WoD fell over on its own and not because it was a big advertising ploy, and the movie was about an entirely different place-setting in the game's continuity that WoD barely touched on at all.

[Arrashi]

Briefly but that doesnt justify there is a huge Orc presence still living there to justify that its the where we get the Orc Allied race from.

How many hairs shall we split?


We knew that outland was Doomed back in BC but you keep carrying on?

*cough* void elves.

[Evangeliste]

The weird thing for me is that not only are these Orcs leaving their planet, they are leaving their freaking universe. Even if it's just a sect of them it'll be weird. They must've had a really good reason for doing so.

Probably because ya know, Argus wasn't destroyed in their universe.Only Demons transcend timelines, not Titans. Not sure how anyone hasn't twigged that it took a massive push in MU to blow up the homeworld, Argus in MU but forgot it still exists in AU. We only kicked Archimonde's arse there. Gul'dan removed but that hasn't stopped a Titan going fucking batshit insane thanks to Sargeras. With Argus AU still there... The Legion will keep coming for Draenor thanks to... *drumroll* Draenei because we saw how who constantly wanted to murder Velen and co. Que Draenor Orcs going "fuck this shit" and the Draenor hoping into their ship to leave again. They only crashed on Azeroth, they landed on Draenor.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel it's a mistake to use the Time-travel AU Fake-Draenor orcs as the allied race rather than ones from Outland using those Clan Aesthetics.

This raises a lot of problems from the terrible time travel nonsense.

What do we do about duplicate characters?

Why don't the orcs and draenei just resettle there? Why doesn't the existence of AU draenor solve all the stupid resource issues between Alliance and Horde?

If someone important dies why don't we just link to ANOTHER timeline where they didn't die?

It cheapens the whole of the setting, it cheapens Outland and WC1-2.

It cheapens REAL Grom's death.

It cheapens the entire orc story arc.

It might be... because in AU land, Argus wasn't destroyed aka the headquarters of Sargeras. In MU it is, which means MU Outland is safer than AU Draenor really.
They had time-travelling as far back as Vanilla with Caverns of Time and the Bronze Dragonflight so being pissed off, however the easy option it is... Was always Blizzard intention to use it. And they have constantly built on the time-travelling aspect with dungeons and the Infinite Dragonflight through the expansions.

And if you don't understand that, Titans appear in every timeline and can't transcend it like Demons can.

To help explain, because the Burning Legion appeared in the AU timeline, it proves the actual existence of Sargeras in that timeline to therefore go insane, capture Argus and created the Burning Legion. This has a knock on effect of firstly, the Draenei being on Draenor confirms this as they would be on Argus instead, but they ran away and settled on Draenor. Secondly, Sargeras did all his shit otherwise there wouldn't have been the appearance of Burning Legion at all on Draenor. And lastly, we didn't face any of the same foes we did in MU to actually eradicate the Burning Legion in the AU timeline anyway.
It's a complete circle in that regard, even if we broke the cycle by killing Archimonde and kicking AU Gul'dan to MU... It's not going to actually stop the Legion indefinitely in AU compared to MU, the real driving force of the Burning Legion is Sargeras and then Argus. And because of all this, it can basically turn AU Draenor ultimately turn into Outland again - and might be why they flee.

The only difference is MU Outland is safe because the MU Titans are holding Sargeras at bay, the AU's ones are effectively still batshit crazy and at large.

The ending of the expansion, Legion documents this and how Argus is the key to Sargeras plan yet somehow really, really overlooked when it comes to this Allied Race.

[Ersula]

I feel it's a mistake to use the Time-travel AU Fake-Draenor orcs as the allied race rather than ones from Outland using those Clan Aesthetics.

This raises a lot of problems from the terrible time travel nonsense.

What do we do about duplicate characters?

Why don't the orcs and draenei just resettle there? Why doesn't the existence of AU draenor solve all the stupid resource issues between Alliance and Horde?

If someone important dies why don't we just link to ANOTHER timeline where they didn't die?

It cheapens the whole of the setting, it cheapens Outland and WC1-2.

It cheapens REAL Grom's death.

It cheapens the entire orc story arc.

*It's not time-travel. The Black & Bronze dragonflight made a clone of Draenor from a certain point in the timeline. It's an entirely new planet*

*And I think this is one death-undo Blizzard is allowed because the character died before World of Warcraft began*

[Stardrift]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Warlords of Draenor...

Not what I'm getting at. I'm saying it's very simple, and I'm not up-playing my own IQ.
Being unable to understand it is just a whole other level of stupid.

[Thage]

With a thread title comparing something to a tumor, I expected a histrionic, hyperbolic rant in the OP and boy, was I not disappointed.

[Stardrift]

I'd generally say that inadequately explaining the basic nature of alternate universes (can more be created? Why did traveling back in time THIS ONE TIME take us to an alternate universe? How did traveling back in time do that? Time travel has existed in WoW before without doing this.) and not making it clear if demons/the burning legion were unique to that universe or not, down to the story being a mess in general is what one could call "confusing", but given that you lack basic control of the English language, is there any point in bothering to talk to you?

Lmao. Where do these questions come from? A bronze dragon, as stated in many different mediums, went back in time to an alternate timeline with Garrosh, who later then connected that timeline with ours.
Of fucking course more can happen.
Magic did it. A fucking time travelling dragon. How self explainatory is that?
Can you even think for yourself? Does mommy bathe and clothe you?

[Deleted]

Lot of people don't seem to be aware of the fact (at least from what I understand), that Draenor isn't alternative timeline/universe. It was pulled from the infinite universes into our universe. It functions literally like any other planet we have (Argus, Outland). The only thing confusing about it might be the duplicate characters, however most of them are already dead and those that are alive are distinguished enough from their counterparts (Green vs Brown Grom for example). With this way of understanding, most if not all of the questions here can be easily answered even by those asking. There was no alternative legion, it was the same we were fighting in this xpac, they too sensed a new world appearing and decided to try and conquer it. They knew hooking up the orcs with Mannoroth's blood was actually really useful last time, so why wouldn't they do it again and avoid their mistakes later on. The only issue I have with the whole idea behind WoD is simply Blizzard not communicating things enough, there was simply missing content, but apart from that all things work out. And the things that spawned from WoD seem to be redeeming that expansion to at least passable level. Gul'dan was a nice addition, responsible for pretty good expansion that then created more things. Draenor orcs as allied race is another great thing, if they even include some sort of Grommash redemption path for his crimes, there's not gonna be much to complain about when it comes to WoD, apart from having only half expansion content.

[Leodok]

What do we do about duplicate characters?

It simply won't happen with lore characters, much like it didn't in WoD.

Why don't the orcs and draenei just resettle there? Why doesn't the existence of AU draenor solve all the stupid resource issues between Alliance and Horde?

Do you really think it's easy and cheap to transport lumber, ore or anything else from a different planet, in a different universe, in a different time? Transporting resources from Mulgore to Orgrimmar was already a logistic nightmare for the Horde.
Also, they are not going to abandon their homes. Their world is now Azeroth, and no alternate reality will change that. Draenei have sworn to stay and help protect it, and many (likely most) orcs weren't even born when the Horde came to Kalimdor.

If someone important dies why don't we just link to ANOTHER timeline where they didn't die?

Because that's completely retarded for a whole bunch of reasons, which I'm sure you can figure out by yourself.

It cheapens REAL Grom's death.

He was just an idiot anyways, I don't see why people care so much about him in the first place.

[Wildberry]

Briefly but that doesnt justify there is a huge Orc presence still living there to justify that its the where we get the Orc Allied race from.

And how is a "huge Orc presence" relevant to whether or not Outland exists? Remember you were claiming (with zero proof, in spite of us having seen the planet multiple times since BC) that Outland is gone:

Well unless we go back to Outland in the future how can you prove otherwise that outland isnt gone?

You keep trying to conflate multiple things that aren't relevant to one another. I prove you wrong, beyond a shadow of a doubt, about Outland existing, and you move to "that doesn't justify a huge Orc presence." Earlier, when you were on the losing end of this, you tried to make the case that "AU Draenor Orcs would prove you right." These things aren't linked, c'mon this isn't difficult.

Oh, and we don't need a "huge Orc presence" anyway. There's half a dozen Void Elves yet apparently they work as an Allied Race.

We knew that outland was Doomed back in BC but you keep carrying on?

Because there's a massive difference between "knowing something is doomed" and "something actually meeting its doom." Again, this shouldn't be difficult to grasp. There is literally nothing in canon to support the point you're making.

Not what I'm getting at. I'm saying it's very simple, and I'm not up-playing my own IQ.
Being unable to understand it is just a whole other level of stupid.

Most people understand the way time travel and AU works, they just think it's a dumb concept. The "Confusion" that the previous poster alluded to was likely the "Demon conundrum" and "Blades of grass idiocy."

You're not special because you "get" Warlords of Draenor.

[Zulkhan]

Yeah, I challenge everyone to come up with a solid and flawless explanation of the "one Burning Legion for infinite universes" fuck up. Warning: it's gonna be hard, considered Kosak seemed to have come up with that brain fart overnight.

[Clone]

While I liked WoD, stuff like alternate universe is better when separated, and time travel better in small doses. Anything beyond one and done deal starts to cause problems and make the setting more convoluted than necessary.

- - - Updated - - -

Well unless we go back to Outland in the future how can you prove otherwise that outland isnt gone?

Did you not get the memo about the planet dying and hurtling toward the nether?

Quit making up bullshit. The lore said Outland is deteriorating, didn't say anything about how fast. You trying to imply it's gone is literally making shit up. Do us all a favor and stop embarrassing yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, characters like Grom and Durotan do exist in MU. Orcs are in dire need of development currently, and the Mag'har faction leader could've filled the role nicely; however, if we have either AU Grom or Durotan acting in this capacity, they won't be able to meaningfully interact with the story, without cheapening their MU counterparts.

And yes, there were complaints regarding Gul'dan.

I don't know about cheapen, but it's definitely a regurgitation of the same old story.

[Stardrift]

And how is a "huge Orc presence" relevant to whether or not Outland exists? Remember you were claiming (with zero proof, in spite of us having seen the planet multiple times since BC) that Outland is gone:



You keep trying to conflate multiple things that aren't relevant to one another. I prove you wrong, beyond a shadow of a doubt, about Outland existing, and you move to "that doesn't justify a huge Orc presence." Earlier, when you were on the losing end of this, you tried to make the case that "AU Draenor Orcs would prove you right." These things aren't linked, c'mon this isn't difficult.

Oh, and we don't need a "huge Orc presence" anyway. There's half a dozen Void Elves yet apparently they work as an Allied Race.


Because there's a massive difference between "knowing something is doomed" and "something actually meeting its doom." Again, this shouldn't be difficult to grasp. There is literally nothing in canon to support the point you're making.


Most people understand the way time travel and AU works, they just think it's a dumb concept. The "Confusion" that the previous poster alluded to was likely the "Demon conundrum" and "Blades of grass idiocy."

You're not special because you "get" Warlords of Draenor.

Never did I say or act as if I was special. Again, my point is you'd have to be pretty stupid to find all that confusing.

[therealstegblob]

Lmao. Where do these questions come from? A bronze dragon, as stated in many different mediums, went back in time to an alternate timeline with Garrosh, who later then connected that timeline with ours.
Of fucking course more can happen.
Magic did it. A fucking time travelling dragon. How self explainatory is that?
Can you even think for yourself? Does mommy bathe and clothe you?

And here we have the MMOChampion shitposter, in his native habitat. See how he makes really dumb posts, making a huge asshole of himself and being needlessly abrasive in the face of people bringing up legitimate facts about WoD's poor writing. See him hide his insecurities by acting tough on a forum. Fascinating.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

AU doesn't ruin any Outland lore. It's still there it exists. In the same way a bad comic book movie doesn't completely destroy your childhood.

[LanceOmikron]

They're Mag'har orcs from Outland. Regardless of what they're presented as, that's what I'm going to think of them as. As far as I'm concerned, WoD did not happen in any capacity. It was all just an Emerald Nightmare-induced fever dream.

[Stardrift]

And here we have the MMOChampion shitposter, in his native habitat. See how he makes really dumb posts, making a huge asshole of himself and being needlessly abrasive in the face of people bringing up legitimate facts about WoD's poor writing. See him hide his insecurities by acting tough on a forum. Fascinating.

Very nice. A lack of an actual response, accompanied by suggestions of their personal opinions being fact, as well as the highly original "___ in their natural habitat" commentary that nobody (who are clearly at a loss for an actual argument) has ever done before.
Congrats, you have won MMO-Champion by presenting yourself as the exact image you tried presenting someone else as.

[therealstegblob]

Very nice. A lack of an actual response, accompanied by suggestions of their personal opinions being fact, as well as the highly original "___ in their natural habitat" commentary that nobody (who are clearly at a loss for an actual argument) has ever done before.
Congrats, you have won MMO-Champion by presenting yourself as the exact image you tried presenting someone else as.

You're trying to complain I lack an argument when your 'argument' is crying about 'magic dragons answer everything' and then accusing me of needing my parents to help me clean and dress myself.

We're done here, you've embarrassed yourself more than enough.

[Ithekro]

Considering the Bronze/Infinite Dragonflight's plan was to pull from as many timelines as it took to build up an army that could take on the Burning Legion, that would take a lot of timelines. But we somehow managed, so its cool now. Mostly.