DH - BfA

[Helkor]

So glad that VDH will be better in BfA, i would enjoy playing a tank that has mobility, dmg, and not give me small Heart attacks every time i look at my HP Bar.

but isn't that pretty much what VDH is? You're a leech tank, your HP bar is supposed to be jumpy afaik.

[Tech614]

but isn't that pretty much what VDH is? You're a leech tank, your HP bar is supposed to be jumpy afaik.

Not really, only in aoe situations. Self healing on ST is some of the lowest of all specs in legion atm, you survive on ST through strong PDR with DS up time and strong parry % IE mitigation/avoidance, not really self healing.

A lot of people get fooled by the big hps numbers you see a VDH do on aoe pulls in M+ that's not really a reality for raiding, and why the spec wasn't used much by higher ranking guilds. This is why DS is now a stronger AM, and soul consumption heals scale with damage in take now, but aoe leech is nerfed in SB only being 10% now and Charred Warblades being gone. It should make VDH a much more well rounded tank instead of being a 1 trick pony in M+ and meh for progression raiding.

[Narabug]

VDH were the gods of Heroic and M+ content due to flat values that did not scale. The only thing that scaled was pain generation, which was significantly less valuable than self-healing which scaled based on damage taken in the past x seconds. In BFA they're removing the pain generation scaling and giving us self-healing scaling via soul fragments.


Just looking at the numbers and what we're losing, It appears as though we'll be in a relatively competitive spot, with the exception of magic damage, due to the loss of empowered wards. Gut feeling is that druids are going to struggle a lot by losing their Artifact ability.

[Ooshraxa]

It appears as though we'll be in a relatively competitive spot, with the exception of magic damage, due to the loss of empowered wards.

I gained quite a few extra HP when the last content patch was rolled onto the beta servers.
Don't know if the extra base HP are meant to be our magic defense?

There's also the possibility of speccing Soul Barrier to deal with one, big, magic damage hit.

[Floopa]

I gained quite a few extra HP when the last content patch was rolled onto the beta servers.
Don't know if the extra base HP are meant to be our magic defense?

There's also the possibility of speccing Soul Barrier to deal with one, big, magic damage hit.

they buffed healing across the board by 40%, and to mirror that they buffed hp by 30% and damage output by 30% (from pve enemies, not players) afaik.

[yarafx1]

I keep hearing stuff about the magic damage but aren't they taking that away from all tanks?

[Tech614]

I keep hearing stuff about the magic damage but aren't they taking that away from all tanks?

For the most part, yes.

If you're in a situation where you take big magic nukes every so often Soul Barrier will still be nice mitigation for that, and if you're in a situation where you're taking a constant magic damage DoT or nukes over and over Void Reaver can reduce that by 8% but yea outside of talents we no longer have anything to counter magic damage.

Warriors have an extremely nerfed version of ignore pain but outside of that I don't think any tank kept any active magic mitigation spells and are limited to selecting talents for those situations like VDH.

[Deleted]

I was wondering if Veng DHs still get that special looking glaives that they hold behind their back in BFA or did they finally narrow it down to one model in BfA? Never really liked the tank artifacts look of the glaives, Havoc looked way cooler. Would be cool to finally get "normal" glaives as a tank.

[Orloth]

The Aldrachi Warglaive transmogs are all still available (for Veng only), but the Deceiver's Warglaives are Havoc only transmogs. However all the Warglaives so far in Alpha have the more traditional shape. You can find them all here: https://beta.wowdb.com/items/weapons...er-expansion=8

The only small exception being the Alliance PvP (I think?) Glaive, which is asymmetrical and looks like a sword with a Polarm stuck under the handle.

[kran1um]

DH Vengeance = Awesome FOTM 2 button spam
DH Havoc = slow with DB spam to get to chaos and then chaos taking so much pain, making running around getting souls a priority

[Deleted]

At the moment the Vengance is in a good position, it needs some balance but overall it seems ok.
Havoc is a dead spec at the moment and the treatment that the blizz is reserving for this spec is unbelievable. If changes do not come soon, the next expansion for this spec will be very difficult.

[RReds]

At the moment the Vengance is in a good position, it needs some balance but overall it seems ok.
Havoc is a dead spec at the moment and the treatment that the blizz is reserving for this spec is unbelievable. If changes do not come soon, the next expansion for this spec will be very difficult.

I hope they will do something about this

[Deleted]

I hope they will do something about this

We all hope that soon something new will come.
I played this spec all legion and I would continue to play but sincerely after 6 months of alpha and beta that I feel sad to see him reduced in this pitiful state. I tell myself, surely we will be working because they can not realize how bad it is, something will come, I'm sure there is nothing to worry about. I said this in alpha 6 months ago. There are only two weeks left before the pre-patch and 2 months to release, so time is running out but nothing changes and believe me there have been many constructive feedbacks.
6 months of silence a pitiful spec and then talk about Class Design .. I am speechless.
The idiot is me that I also pre-purchased BfA to know that it ended so I did not even think about it.

[Varolyn]

At the moment the Vengance is in a good position, it needs some balance but overall it seems ok.
Havoc is a dead spec at the moment and the treatment that the blizz is reserving for this spec is unbelievable. If changes do not come soon, the next expansion for this spec will be very difficult.

Well, on a positive note, havoc will probably be extremely useful for the G'huun fight. But probably not for the reasons that people want.

[Deleted]

hm maybe i am wrong but didnt blizz say: Demo, SV and Dh get a big rework and all other specs only tiny ones ?

Hm
Frost Dk nearly full rework
Unholy Dk nearly full rework

MM Bm rework
SV full rework

Warlock Demo full rework

Warrior full rework of all 3 specs.

And DH change 2 or 3 taletns thats it ?

Fury gets a ful rework with all things the community wants.
Arms gets a real good rework

When they want to give DH some love. Havoc is in a realy bad spot in beta atm vs all other melee classes. The tiny 5% raidbuff isnt enough to pick us because tanks also give the buff.
You loose so much today i try the Classhalldemon to kill as havoc. One live with the same gear easy as hell no probs. On beta the same mob brings us in big trouble. I try a lot with talents but atm only as tank or max selfheal legys possible for me. On live you could kill him so easy.

For me atm DH loose 30% of his damage and 50% sustain and selfheal with the switch to bfa. Also the ability to slow and kill enemys on range is realy hard without Bloodlet and the old fel barrage.
You can run away but you cant put pressure from range.

Ferals and rogues destroy this weakness with stun all other with armor def and selfheal.
We are the only melee class without stun lock or selfheal or good defense. Blur isnt enough sry.
Feral Ret Enhancer Monk heal like healer in pvp atm, Warrior and Dk have presure like hell and Hunter could one shot but what is with the second hero class?
One addon with a lot up and downs and now its over ?

For me atm Havoc runs to a dead spec in pvp if they dont give him some love.

More Selfheal and / or more range damage back
130/140 fury baseline
More love for abilitys in meta and the whole meta. Not only Chaosstrike and Blade dance switch. Lets make eyebeam gets a special effekt, fel rush throw glaive felblade and so on. Their are so much option for a whole real good rework of this ability with so much style. Look back at Warlock Demoform or Rogue Shadowdance rework, or Shadows Voidform Blizz has so much creative people why no one care about Havoc.

Switch some talents to baseline and bring some better ones.
for example:

99 switch demonic appetite with demons blade from 100.

100 for Demons blade you bring in a talent that reduce fury cost for x % passiv

102 Fel barrage baseline the old one, Our artifakt weapon switch in; and than pls balance all 3 the other 2 are so weak atm.

104 soul rending 30% leech perma plus 20% more in Meta so we come to 80% leech while meta is on. Or we get a aktiv heal as ability not talent. All other leather classes have a option to reg without stay in combat only dH has only leech and 10% is nothing and 40% in meta is also to less. With the souls from demonic apetite it works but 2 heal talents to get the same amount of heal that other classes get talent free or for 1 talent hm .... (we have not the option to stay back and heal up like monk feral rogue.)

106 switch in demonic appetite the spawning souls heal for ca 10% max hp and buff our damage for ca 10%.
and switch dark slash with demonic in 110. Than bring demonic baseline.

108 unleashed power baseline and fill the gap with a fel rush talent that reduce the CD of fell rush to nearly zero. So we have no slow no long stun but movment out of hell.

110 again bring demonic baseline switch in dark slash and than balance the 3. Dark slash should give more st burst damage than the other 2. momentum should be the ae talent and nemesis the talent for players they hate the mechanic of short damage windows . In Bossfights full St dark slash and nemsis should win against momentum but nemesis should only win against dark slash if you can use it perfect 2 times.


But this is only a wish list and christmas isnt yet

[Treetoppz]

hm maybe i am wrong but didnt blizz say: Demo, SV and Dh get a big rework and all other specs only tiny ones ?

Hm
Frost Dk nearly full rework
Unholy Dk nearly full rework

MM Bm rework
SV full rework

Warlock Demo full rework

Warrior full rework of all 3 specs.

And DH change 2 or 3 taletns thats it ?

Fury gets a ful rework with all things the community wants.
Arms gets a real good rework

When they want to give DH some love. Havoc is in a realy bad spot in beta atm vs all other melee classes. The tiny 5% raidbuff isnt enough to pick us because tanks also give the buff.
You loose so much today i try the Classhalldemon to kill as havoc. One live with the same gear easy as hell no probs. On beta the same mob brings us in big trouble. I try a lot with talents but atm only as tank or max selfheal legys possible for me. On live you could kill him so easy.

For me atm DH loose 30% of his damage and 50% sustain and selfheal with the switch to bfa. Also the ability to slow and kill enemys on range is realy hard without Bloodlet and the old fel barrage.
You can run away but you cant put pressure from range.

Ferals and rogues destroy this weakness with stun all other with armor def and selfheal.
We are the only melee class without stun lock or selfheal or good defense. Blur isnt enough sry.
Feral Ret Enhancer Monk heal like healer in pvp atm, Warrior and Dk have presure like hell and Hunter could one shot but what is with the second hero class?
One addon with a lot up and downs and now its over ?

For me atm Havoc runs to a dead spec in pvp if they dont give him some love.

More Selfheal and / or more range damage back
130/140 fury baseline
More love for abilitys in meta and the whole meta. Not only Chaosstrike and Blade dance switch. Lets make eyebeam gets a special effekt, fel rush throw glaive felblade and so on. Their are so much option for a whole real good rework of this ability with so much style. Look back at Warlock Demoform or Rogue Shadowdance rework, or Shadows Voidform Blizz has so much creative people why no one care about Havoc.

Switch some talents to baseline and bring some better ones.
for example:

99 switch demonic appetite with demons blade from 100.

100 for Demons blade you bring in a talent that reduce fury cost for x % passiv

102 Fel barrage baseline the old one, Our artifakt weapon switch in; and than pls balance all 3 the other 2 are so weak atm.

104 soul rending 30% leech perma plus 20% more in Meta so we come to 80% leech while meta is on. Or we get a aktiv heal as ability not talent. All other leather classes have a option to reg without stay in combat only dH has only leech and 10% is nothing and 40% in meta is also to less. With the souls from demonic apetite it works but 2 heal talents to get the same amount of heal that other classes get talent free or for 1 talent hm .... (we have not the option to stay back and heal up like monk feral rogue.)

106 switch in demonic appetite the spawning souls heal for ca 10% max hp and buff our damage for ca 10%.
and switch dark slash with demonic in 110. Than bring demonic baseline.

108 unleashed power baseline and fill the gap with a fel rush talent that reduce the CD of fell rush to nearly zero. So we have no slow no long stun but movment out of hell.

110 again bring demonic baseline switch in dark slash and than balance the 3. Dark slash should give more st burst damage than the other 2. momentum should be the ae talent and nemesis the talent for players they hate the mechanic of short damage windows . In Bossfights full St dark slash and nemsis should win against momentum but nemesis should only win against dark slash if you can use it perfect 2 times.


But this is only a wish list and christmas isnt yet

I agree does anyone else find it troubling that fury warrior plays the way Demon hunter should? I mean Demon hunter is suppose to be this really fast engaging spec that is simple to play, however fury does a better job at it i mean like the difference its extremely stark. I would love some changes that allow demon hunter to feel as engaging as any of the warrior specs.

[Treetoppz]

Is anyone else concerned about the state of havoc? I mean I played warrior on the beta and right now it feels amazing! Fury feels fast and engaging while being just as simple as havoc. Why is it the heavily armor clad class feels faster and more agile (charge mobility is great for getting you back into the fight) then the class that boosts speed and quick attacks to chop down bigger foes? Please Blizzard can something be done to increase the pace of Havoc cause as you proved with fury simple doesn't have to mean dull and you don't need Colossus smash windows to provide meaningful game play (looking at you Dark slash).

[Niellak]

Currently in beta you die to almost every class I think only class I have no problems witj is casters due to the new purge ability

I did few mythic runs and you are even out dpsed by every class sometimes even the tank

[Sunslayer]

I'd say Havoc is currently, the worst spec in Beta. The spec feels really 'bleh' without the Artifact. Dark slash is the worst new talent in all of BfA. 100 Fury cap feels horrendous. I went from planning to main Havoc in BfA to having no plan to level it past 110. And the reasons I can't stand playing Havoc in Beta have nothing to do with numbers.

[Deleted]

the alpha and beta of Bfa was the right opportunity to completely review havoc and making it a real leap in quality.
Does Blizz want to reduce this class to an ignorant spam of Cs and Demon Bite without any logic?
Our rotation: DB - DB - DB - CS - CS - DB - DB - CS - EB (30 sec) - DB - DB ...
Is this the direction they decided to take for this class?
Mmmm "very Nice and Engage" .. I congratulate for the excellent class Design.

None of us play for free, not even the DH and Blizz is not nice and correct the behavior that has taken on this community especially as you see that all classes receive Blue Post, some of them also very descriptive and our class in 6 months 0 (looks like a joke).

Now someone can rightly say that mine is not a constructive feedback, but sincerely constructive feedback so far have been made many (read official EU and US forum) and now we are also a bit tired.
Feedback time is over, now we want answers.