Sylvanas' Genocide of the Night Elves

[Ryneon]

How are Horde fans going to justify the attempted genocide of an entire race of people in Battle for Azeroth? Since her stated goal is to wipe out all opposition in Kalimdor and gain total control of the continent, meaning any settlements of Night Elves will be either wiped out or forced into mass exodus.

All I'll say is they better replace her and any loyalist of hers quick or the Horde will never escape its evil label.

I don't think you could define the word "war" if I gave you a dictionary.

Atrocities happen during war. Battles over territory. PoWs. Plus, the genocide hasn't even been "attempted" yet. It's a datamined quote.

> Grow the f- up.

[Snuffe]

Meh we will kill sylvanas soon anway.

[Zulkhan]

Hate to bring it to you and all horde fans but when WoW started the Horde clearly was this band of unlikely companions that had each others back simply for being outcasts. Blood and Honor and all that.
But since Garrosh the Horde simply is evil. There is no duality anymore, just different shades of evil. Yes, a Vol'Jin was much better than Garrosh in that regard but even he did not even try to make peace with the night elves and return their land to finde some form of agreement for the ressource problem. And Sylvanas after his death is of course a war monger like Garrosh himself.
Don't get me wrong, I understand what players saw in the old Horde and how great it actually way, but that time is long gone and will take A LOT to get it back.

The first line in bold has little to do with the second, especially when Horde and Alliance indeed agreed about leaving Azshara to the first and Ashenvale to the second. Besides, the Horde not being led anymore by a competent and yet naive and idealistic leader doesn't equate to it being "evil". I mean, the Alliance before Anduin never had such kind of leader to begin with, the closest to Thrall's views was Jaina and she has never been "High Queen" of the Alliance.

[Tabrotar]

Exodus isn't genocide. Destroying enemy camps isn't genocide. Given the goal of making Kalimdor Horde, destroying the camps isn't even desired since they could be settled.




It's almost as if you reap what you sow.




Do tell where you got Draenor's census.




Yeah, they only dragged the Legion in tow, dooming countless words, knowing full well that'd be the result. And were fine with it.




Garrosh was racist before he even became Warchief, as per his short story.




There is still zero proof hell happens to all undead because they are undead.




What Orcs want is rather irrelevant when it's the Alliance that attacks them first ever since they moved to Draenor.




This is abject fanfiction. The Orcs of the New Horde alone were numerous enough at the time of their escape to Kalimdor that they could have won against the Alliance at the time if they wanted to. Night Elves had to join the Alliance for a reason, that being them needing help. And in Cataclysm not only was it the Night Elves that turned on the Orcs by breaking the trade treaty, but it's the Alliance that attacked the Horde first (in the Barrens). As for Ashenvale, Night Elves needed not only the Horde's attention being divided by the Alliance opening a new front in the Barrens, but needed direct reinforcements in Ashenvalde to bail them out as well.




Since when is Teldrassil a part of Ashenvale, let alone the living heart of it? It's a failed world tree that shouldn't have existed.




Except for the part where the Nightborne turned on her and the Legion and prevented the opening of the second biggest portal, saving the world in the process.




And who decides that? You?




The concept of consent does not apply to corpses. The dead they rise are given an option the moment it starts applying to them again.




As has been already pointed out to you, one of the main factions that led the charge against the Scourge was the Ebon Blade. A bunch of undead that made even more undead (before Forsaken got Val'kyr). And no one batted an eye. Even though the Ebon Blade actually made their undead mindless servants, unlike the Forsaken who preserve free will of the people they resurrect. It's almost as if the problem with the Scourge went beyond just undead and was primarily the part where they wanted to gain even more undead by wiping out all life.




Way to ignore the part where Alliance attacked the Horde during the invasion of said Titan, way before he was dealt with. And that it's the Alliance who couldn't see that maybe we should focus on other things. Sylvanas is just reacting to Alliance aggression, only after Legion was defeated and Azeroth wasn't on the brink of annihilation. As for Bwonsamdi, he could have told Vol'jin that long before Vol'jin was on his deathbed.




This is illogical on all fronts. Just because the Legion wants to eradicate all life doesn't mean any action performed by people with some ties to the Legion is by default genocide. Also, the Forsaken formed by fighting a war against both the Scourge and the Legion. And the Legion isn't laying siege to anything now, because it no longer exists.




Yes, it's totally Sylvanas fans that pick and choose canon they want. Not the legion of people incapable of handling her, let alone people liking a character they don't. *cough* even ignoring word of god about Forsaken and free will *cough* Here's a hint: pointing out the data you people ignored in the first place isn't in turn ignoring the rest.




Except not only is this post not 100% right, it also has absolutely nothing to do with your post, or even the one you replied to. You presenting your assumptions as lore does not make them canon. So people not treating them as canon, because they are not, aren't choosing parts of the canon they like.




Meanwhile, among the things that are not Sylvanas' stated goals; genocide.




But I thought you're not an Alliance fan but a totally impartial poster.




As opposed to you pulling genocide out of thin air






You cry bullshit on one hand, on the other hand you completely ignore me saying the Horde also attacked the Alliance in places like Ashenvale in Vanilla in the thread you're referring to, like a paragon of dishonesty. Quality argument you got here. And stating that Alliance attacks the Horde more often is not playing the victim card, it's a fact supported by the lore. You being unable to handle that and projecting some nonsense onto me in an attempt to dismiss it is your personal problem and only adds to your already immense dishonesty.




They can contest it all they want, doesn't make the act of contesting not an act of aggression and there's no amount of brilliant squirming that you can perform to alter this reality. Also, the Horde was the aggressor in Andorhal? Really? Never mind the fact that the factions were already in a world war by the time it happened. Andorhal belonged to the realm of Lordaeron that the Forsaken claimed, while the Alliance had no rights whatsoever to. And the Alliance went there only to open another front against the Forsaken. With us arriving at the scene while the fight has already begun, with there being no information who started it. And then when Thassarian and Koltira made truce, it's the Alliance that broke it in a surprise attack.




In this case? Given how the time in Azeroth doesn't include just conflicts in Ashenvale, this invasion doesn't rest on the previous attempts and stems from the faction relations as a whole.




Given how genocide requires a specific intent, it matters everything. Legal concepts are pedantic by nature.




How do you eradicate land? Is the Horde going to unleash Exterminatus upon Kalimdor? That'd go against their stated goal of conquering Kalimdor you just talked about.




Except it's a textbook example of ethnic/political cleansing. Which is the closest crime to genocide there is.




The minds of delicate, brilliant minds filled with legions of straw-men of some Alliance players do not constitute lore forum in the real world. For all my years here I've yet to see anyone claim Taurajo was the most heinous act in Warcraft.




Literally the first quest you get in Silithus has you blowing up Horde shredders in their camp. And the Horde didn't seem to like Alliance spies intruding on their territory and blowing up things in their encampment.




I.e. kill anyone trying to prevent the Alliance from intruding on Horde's property rights, in a place the Alliance has no right to be in in the first place. I guess when you break into someone's home and they try to defend their home, you're free to kill them on the spot then Never mind that the only source of the ore for the quest is a drop from the Goblins. That you have to kill to get said ore.




You sort of addressed it in the later part of this post, but I want to cover this for emphasis. The Horde has the right to defend their outpost from an intrusion of foreign operatives. The Alliance operatives on the other hand have zero right to even enter the camp. Let alone to steal the Azerite, kill Goblins to steal the Azerite from or blow things up in the outpost. The Alliance is 100% in the wrong here.




Yet when the player gets involved and gets tasked with obtaining more samples, rather than being directed anywhere else to grab them, they are told to get the samples from Horde outpost they have no right to be in. With the only source for the ore being dead Goblins. I wonder where did they get the first sample from then. Especially given the fact that they learned of it by observing Horde activity in the first place.




Nothing about thousands upon thousands has been datamined. So check "confirmed" in the dictionary. What has been datamined was the Horde going through Felwood (which is a Fel-tainted shithole with barely any Night Elven activity) and even taking a detour to Winterspring rather than going through populated Ashenvale. Given the topography of the terrain, that means they're probably going via air for the most time.

And what has also been datamined was the Horde force consisting of 200 hundred soldiers. Yup, totally capable of killing thousands upon thousands on their way to Teldrassil.

But Silithus don´t belong to either the horde or the alliance?

So neither has any "right" over the lands there and neither side can say that the other can´t be there.

So all the horde is doing is mining and the alliance has the same rights (we just don´t do it because it seems like the goblins already covered up any spot where we could mine). And the blowing up of the shredders is just to prevent them from mining even more of the dangerous stuff.

[Ningjinq]

Even if it wasn’t blighted, do you really think the alliance would let the Forsaken live in Lordaeron after they captured it? Would be the same thing.

[Mehrunes]

But Silithus don´t belong to either the horde or the alliance?

So neither has any "right" over the lands there and neither side can say that the other can´t be there.

So all the horde is doing is mining and the alliance has the same rights (we just don´t do it because it seems like the goblins already covered up any spot where we could mine). And the blowing up of the shredders is just to prevent them from mining even more of the dangerous stuff.

But their outposts do belong to them? If you park your car on a street that does not belong to you, does that make your car fair game for people to rob and for them to kill you when you try to stop them? And given how Silithus doesn't really belong to anymore, Horde is free to claim it if they please. Alliance has no rights to blow Horde shredders or prevent the Horde from mining anything, especially if they are doing it in their encampment. Also, you ignored that the only source of Azerite samples for the second starting quest is the NPCs, which means the Alliance player has to attack the Goblins.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Even if it wasn’t blighted, do you really think the alliance would let the Forsaken live in Lordaeron after they captured it? Would be the same thing.

it will depend on whether the Alliance can successfully hold the surrounding territories or not.

[Zyky]

By the time both factions are already killing each other?With horde killing spies and Ally killing Miners?

The sample wich Shaw collected could be from anywhere, the Horde questlines don't mention or seems to bother with any attack(the workers are even slacking off) so how comes the Alliance has killed Goblins to get the samples if no one bothered.

Show actual proof that one faction started the skirmish, because when you play HOrde there aren't dead goblins or destroyed shreeders and the Alliance part can be also a retaliation to those that the Horde Killed.

I want the Alliance to be in the wrong for once, but not over pety Skirmish, misguided information.

If the Alliance is to be in the wrong, let us destroy a town and kill civillians for once or let us start the War.But as far we know, the War started with the burning of Teldrassil

No the War started with bullshit in Silithus, what better what to tell the Alliance that you're not going to tolerate their bullshit then to attack a capital city. That's war, anything is fair game in war.

[Deleted]

But their outposts do belong to them? If you park your car on a street that does not belong to you, does that make your car fair game for people to rob and for them to kill you when you try to stop them? And given how Silithus doesn't really belong to anymore, Horde is free to claim it if they please. Alliance has no rights to blow Horde shredders or prevent the Horde from mining anything, especially if they are doing it in their encampment. Also, you ignored that the only source of Azerite samples for the second starting quest is the NPCs, which means the Alliance player has to attack the Goblins.

Alliance has all the rights to contest, sabotage and attack any mining operation they so please if that is deemed a threat to them. Especially mining taking place near a gigantic sword that tore a hole in the world which is spewing a powerful resource which can potentially (and surely, as Sylvanas is known to be capable of using any method available to achieve a win) be used against them.

If the Horde uses this pretext to start a war and invade, good on them. But do not attempt to paint them as the victims here. They chose to exploit this resource instead of attempting to heal the wound or stay passive, they get the consequences.

[Mehrunes]

Alliance has all the rights to contest, sabotage and attack any mining operation they so please if that is deemed a threat to them. Especially mining taking place near a gigantic sword that tore a hole in the world which is spewing a powerful resource which can potentially (and surely, as Sylvanas is known to be capable of using any method available to achieve a win) be used against them.

If the Horde uses this pretext to start a war and invade, good on them. But do not attempt to paint them as the victims here. They chose to exploit this resource instead of attempting to heal the wound or stay passive, they get the consequences.

They have that right only in as much there's no one above them that'd prevent them from doing it. When it comes to faction relations, it is still an act of aggression and as such has consequences. And tf the Alliance attacks the Horde, they are the victim of Alliance aggression. Because words mean things. Stop these mental gymnastics. They don't work and they are below sad. Trying to turn this around on the Horde as if they had any obligation to act in any particular way in regards to Azerite is inane. There can be only one aggressor in any given altercation. In this one, it's the Alliance. Deal with it and stop bending over backwards in an effort to alter reality itself.

And for the millionth time, the Alliance attacks the Horde before they find out what the Horde plans to do with Azerite. Hell, they gather more samples to test it by attacking the Horde. I mean, you're free to ignore that. But be a dear and take your ignorance of the lore to a place that's not dedicated to the lore. Fanfiction.net is one potential place. A site dedicated to people who who have trouble with the concept of words meaning things is another (not sure if there is any site like that, but hey, you're free to start one).

[Zulkhan]

But Silithus don´t belong to either the horde or the alliance?

So neither has any "right" over the lands there and neither side can say that the other can´t be there.

So all the horde is doing is mining and the alliance has the same rights (we just don´t do it because it seems like the goblins already covered up any spot where we could mine). And the blowing up of the shredders is just to prevent them from mining even more of the dangerous stuff.

How do you think "rights" over the land are claimed in the first place? Did humans got their "rights" to build their kingdoms where they did by Mudmug?

Silithus doesn't belong to anyone, true. That only means that is up for the grabs of anyone willing to claim it. Did the Horde claimed the whole Silithus? No, they didn't, which means they do not have any particular right over the whole place. That indeed means the Alliance is entirely free to go and get their own piece of Silithus. However, guess what, is not right for the Alliance to go and invade the Horde-claimed piece of Silithus. Doing so undeniably makes them aggressors and potential thieves.

Alliance has all the rights to contest, sabotage and attack any mining operation they so please if that is deemed a threat to them. Especially mining taking place near a gigantic sword that tore a hole in the world which is spewing a powerful resource which can potentially (and surely, as Sylvanas is known to be capable of using any method available to achieve a win) be used against them.

If the Horde uses this pretext to start a war and invade, good on them. But do not attempt to paint them as the victims here. They chose to exploit this resource instead of attempting to heal the wound or stay passive, they get the consequences.

No, the Alliance has no "right" to do that. All they can do is rationalize how that's supposedly necessary for their own safety. However, convincing yourself that what you do is absolutely necessary and being "right" is not the same in the slightest.

[Stelio Kontos]

No, the Alliance has no "right" to do that. All they can do is rationalize how that's supposedly necessary for their own safety. However, convincing yourself that what you do is absolutely necessary and being "right" is not the same in the slightest.

So the Alliance killing a handful of Goblin miners out of concern for their own safety is not acceptable, but the Horde nuking Theramore was entirely justifiable for their own safety?

The fuck is this?

[Mehrunes]

Calling me a "Paragon of dishonesty" and then going on to say the Alliance is the one attacking the Horde and proclaiming it as fact supported by lore is a bit ironic, don't you think?

Google irony then. Then google attacking. Because the Alliance questline starts with bombing Horde property in a Horde outpost and stealing samples from Horde outpost by killing Goblins that hold said samples. This is really weak, even for you.

Let's skip the fact that the Horde is the OG Invader here and miss all those wars where countless human cities were destroyed by rampaging demon-crazed orcs, as honestly, the Legion is more at fault here. Lets go to the start of Vanilla and tell me, how many times did the Alliance initiate full scale conflict against the horde?

Yes, let's skip the previous wars, because separate conflicts are *gasp* separate. Depends by what you mean by full scale conflict. Wars, twice. The one from WotLK-MoP that was started by Varian in UC and the one in BfA. Other than that, the only BG with confirmed aggressor was AV, where Stormpikes themselves admitted to be in the wrong. But given how you were in the thread dedicated to this very topic and you not only read my posts there but personally quoted them, this is facetious nonsense.

On another note: Claiming Andorhal was an Alliance offensive into Forsaken lands is also ridiculous given the fact the alliance presence there is mainly farmers and the human side of Andorhal does not even have walls facing the enemy, while the Forsaken arrive with trained soldiers, Val'kyr and chemical weapons. The Forsaken also do not own the whole of Lordaeron. There are plenty of living people living there, which are conveniently murdered and turned into more Forsaken as well.

It is almolst as if you've never played Cataclysm.

Yeah, because Alliance had no farmlands elsewhere. And they were led by Thassarian because no one knows how to maximize crop yields than a Death Knight. And the Forsaken may not own whole of Lordaeron, but they do have a claim on the whole of Lordaeron because they were the only ones who made a new state in Lordaeron's ashes and claimed Lordaeron for themselves. Westfall's farmers have zero claim to Lordaeron.

[Mehrunes]

So the Alliance killing a handful of Goblin miners out of concern for their own safety is not acceptable, but the Horde nuking Theramore was entirely justifiable for their own safety?

The fuck is this?

What concern for their safety? Does the part where Alliance sends the player to attack the Horde outpost before they find out what the Horde plans to do with Azerite need to be tattooed on your faces for it to finally register in the minds of you people? Also, Theramore: the main staging ground of Alliance in Kalimdor, a route for reinforcements in EK and the source of the main offensive force into Horde territory (Northwatch Expeditionary Unit); during a world war started by the Alliance. VS a mining outpost in the middle of nowhere, mining stuff for reasons unknown to the Alliance, during peace time. Welp, those are totally comparable mon.

[Zulkhan]

So the Alliance killing a handful of Goblin miners out of concern for their own safety is not acceptable, but the Horde nuking Theramore was entirely justifiable for their own safety?

The fuck is this?

First of all, nuking Theramore with a fucking mana bomb happened for reasons strictly tied to Garrosh's ambitions rather than anything regarding "safety" and this is acknowledged everywhere. Secondly, the mere attempt to assault and take Theramore out of the picture, regardless if it was a wise or thought out move, surely it wasn't unjustified, considered the widely aggressive role its major external outpost (Northwatch Hold) played throughout the whole of Kalimdor against the Horde (not to mention the attempt to build a solid route for Alliance troops from Theramore through the Barrens).

You're comparing an attack that, despite everything, occurred when hostilities between the factions were higher than ever and war was still raging to an attempt to sabotage, damage and steal property from a Horde outpost during a time of relative post-MoP peace, not long after the last major act of aggression against the other faction was committed by Genn Greymane (who himself lives in the conviction that the Horde "betrayed" the Alliance at the Broken Shore and so they apparently "asked for it").

[Niaraa]

Sylvanas wasn't even in charge for teh invasion of Gilneas and Prince Greymane died of his own actions. The human lands north of the Thandol Span were destroyed during the events leading into WoW, except south shore which was wiped out by the ocean...

Now Nathanos' cousin is prolly the only thing that actually wound up happening as that bit about her sister was about as progressed as her supposed attempt to attack stormwind city that has been mentioned around these forums. The expansionist activities...seem to have taken place under the leadership of another leader who had big plans for the Horde.

Stromguard was destroy before wow yup, but Forsaken plan is to take this land regardless of people who still live there (remember me a quest: a forsaken woman die in the plague but not the human who now live on here farm, she don't care about the farm but she sand us slain everyone, just because they live and not her.) for southshore you probably miss the plague machine of the forsaken and what happen to farmers in south of dalaran crater. Liam Greyman die of his own action sure. but he'd still be here if Sylvanas let the gilnean rotting behind the wall. and seriously? who's the one wrong? a soldier who died to protect his Kingdom or the ennemy who kill him? i vote for the ennemy. so sylvanas fault, she creat herself her nemesis Greyman.
and i never said this is a Horde problem, just a forsaken one.

I regret to be that guy but

Sarcasm





Your head.

sarcasm yea, but this is honest and better than an excuses list for Sylvanas. i have a psycopathe forsaken so i dont judge.






and plz stop all with silithius quest they are not relevent about lore this is just game mechanics. for now we don't know who hit first. in Lore terms we know have Horde mining a thing whitch can end the Alliance and alliance scooting, spying, sabotage to earn time.

[Deleted]

Your so-awesome-elves think that EVERY PIECE OF LAND IN HYJAL (as in, the whole mountain, from Azshara to Darkshore) is sacred.

You ignore the plight of a race that settled near your lands - a race that was manipulated to attack a planet that attracted the attention of the fiendlord himself. Should the Orcs simply die from famine? Nah. They have a Warchief. She simply found the solution for the survival of the Orcs.

LOK'TAR OGAR

They were only manipulated up to the point they escaped from the internment camps. After that they made their own choices.

The orcs could have settled in Un'goro or Feralas, but Thrall chose to settle in an unhospitable desert. Also, orcs were not dieing from famine, in Garrosh's short story it is stated that the Orgrimmar markets were full, he is impressed by that until someone tells him that all that comes from trade, it isn't something the orcs produce directly themselves. You know, like in a functioning normal market, you don't produce everything yourself. But he didn't like that.

So, orcs can have food through trade.

And they came only because the Queen of your most relevant empire summoned the Devil, and that thing wanted vengeance.

Still, they are there, and have nowhere to go - Kalimdor is the home of Orcs, Taurens, Trolls and Goblns. They will survive. They will have their space.

Orcs and goblins are immigrants in Kalimdor. They all came there in the last 15 years. That's not even a full generation.

Also, regarding the queen, do you want to go there? Ok.

The queen was alive during the evolution period, meaning she had a high chance of having been born a troll. BOOM. Trolls destroyed the world, GG.
Do you want to go further? Ok, said queen started a genocide of her people aided by Highbourne. Some broke from her later in the war and they would end up becoming... high elves and then blood elves. Again, a Horde race. The others became naga, so belonging to neither faction.

No one of importance will miss the arrogant hubris of the haughty night elves or the sniveling dogs they house in their tree. Besides, do you really think any of us in the Horde care what label someone like you places on us?

For the Warchief! For Victory!

It's funny that you have an image of Saurfang, Saurfang who threatened Garrosh once regarding genocide because he had participated in one and had learned why it's bad. So, overall, you're saying something then putting an image of an orc saying the opposite.

Oh, also, those arrogant hubris of the haughty night elves saved your precious Horde by bringing down the gates of Orgrimmar in your civil war and then left your people in peace, even giving up their claim of Azshara for good.

More like selfishness really, and selfishness is far more rational than selflessness.
Taking an opportunity to permanently stop a persistent threat to their continued well-being is completely sensible, and getting all that land and resources in the process is an added bonus.

The Alliance however are doing the same thing, but not even getting land/resources from it.

By burning Teldrassil, what resources are the Horde getting? Charcoal? A giant torch? Any resources there would burn along with everyone there. They don't even get to claim the land, since it will be a charred husk.

The horde just burned a tree down. Unless they start going into houses and killing kids, i won't say that it is genocide.

After the Third War, much of the civilian population of the night elves moved to Teldrassil. So, burning it is akin to nuking the entire state of California. Everyone dies, including the civilians, and it becomes uninhabitable.

Conquest is not genecide. Killing a people is not genocide.

Unless you can show that Slyvannas is killing the Cenarion Circle and Guadians of the Dream NEs, she's pursuing her war with the Allaince and their NE members not attempting genocide of the NEs.

- - - Updated - - -

Also lets not forget the Kul Tirians did actually commit near total genocide

Well, funny thing there! Members of the Cenarion Circle are on Teldrassil. So, burning it would kill them too.

Oh, also, conquest? What is the Horde conquering in Teldrassil? Nothing. Because they burn it. The entire island will become uninhabitable. There will be nothing to conquer.

As for Kul Tiras, yes, they did, and Jaina helped the Horde end that. But you forgot to mention that. Then she had her city wiped out and now the Horde is trying to wipe out another civilization. And I'm not even counting Garrosh's True Horde or his Iron Horde. No wonder we're trying to get Kul Tiras back, they might have been right about orcs and the Horde.

The different was that Sargeras came directly to the Eredar and offer them power, Kil'Jeadan and Archimond jumped on it directly, while Velen chosed not to.
But the orcs was tricked into it, they didn't know any better. They were told by their "ancestors spirits" that the Draenei wanted to kill -all- the orcs. The "ancestors spirits", disguised by none other then Kil'Jeaden. It wasn't untile much later that Ner'zhul found out what really was going on, but by then, it was already to late.

Also, the Frostwolfs didn't want to be part of the Horde. So the Mag'har orcs and the Frostwolfs.

So honestly, the orcs were not faced with the same decision as the Eredar, there never was a decision for the Orcs. Since they didn't know anything else then that the Draenei wanted to kill them. Arguably, the orcs could have question it and try to solve it an other way. But when your society is so heavy influenced by the Spirits and the Elements for thousends of years, and been trusting them for such long time. I don't see why the Orcs should have question it. Is like Why a Draenei would suddenly question it's faith in the holy light.

True... except Grom drinks fel blood again in Ashenvale. He knew what he is, a troll witch doctor warns him of it, he and his troops still drink it.

[Mehrunes]

and plz stop all with silithius quest they are not relevent about lore this is just game mechanics. for now we don't know who hit first. in Lore terms we know have Horde mining a thing whitch can end the Alliance and alliance scooting, spying, sabotage to earn time.

Quests are lore. And sabotaging someone by setting up explosives in their territory is a hostile act.

Oh, also, conquest? What is the Horde conquering in Teldrassil? Nothing. Because they burn it. The entire island will become uninhabitable. There will be nothing to conquer.

That doesn't change the fact that Horde intended to conquer it. It being burned instead indicates something went wrong.

As for Kul Tiras, yes, they did, and Jaina helped the Horde end that. But you forgot to mention that. Then she had her city wiped out and now the Horde is trying to wipe out another civilization.

Speaking of forgetting to mention things, Jaina had her city wiped out only after she and her forced played a pivotal role in the war against the Horde for 2 years.

[Niaraa]

Quests are lore. And sabotaging someone by setting up explosives in their territory is a hostile act.

sur it is. if you are caught! and in fact we are... horde know the Si:7 is here. and yea but it's not horde territory the only faction whitch can seriously claim silithius is....cenarion cercle lol.
and tell me one thing what Alliance must do? let's have an exemple forget Azeroth , imagine. North Korea find a way to annihilate the all US. i dont think the US will close their eyes and "wait and see!" especially if this mega weapon is in your ennemis hands. go back in wow, i thing Horde and Alliance do what they must do to survive and take avantage of this new power because doing nothing mean be vainquish by thoose who use azerite. but Sylvanas...acting for the Horde? ahaha we will see!

[MikeBogina]

True... except Grom drinks fel blood again in Ashenvale. He knew what he is, a troll witch doctor warns him of it, he and his troops still drink it.

The Warsong is one of the few tribes who was never captured and never stopped fighting, it's not until they kill mannoroth are they freed from his fel influence. The orcs were lethargic during the camps, but it wasn't until manno's death did many of the veterans suffer depression, even Saurfang.