How do we feel these days about M+ scoring?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

We had a thread maybe a month or so ago where we debated pros and cons. Some were just finding out the system (Raider.IO) existed; some used it and liked it, while others hated the idea and called for it to be banned. Some were mostly bothered that not enough scores were reported (especially if you were on high pop server), but Blizz has made adjustments to this. Now that we've all had more time to get used to it, I wondered how players felt today. We won't all agree, and that's ok. Just curious to see.

I will try to include good poll options for most of you, but I'm sure to leave out someone's feelings, so feel free to write those in below.

[Firatha]

We had a thread maybe a month or so ago where we debated pros and cons. Some were just finding out the system (Raider.IO) existed; some used it and liked it, while others hated the idea and called for it to be banned. Some were mostly bothered that not enough scores were reported (especially if you were on high pop server), but Blizz has made adjustments to this. Now that we've all had more time to get used to it, I wondered how players felt today. We won't all agree, and that's ok. Just curious to see.

I will try to include good poll options for most of you, but I'm sure to leave out someone's feelings, so feel free to write those in below.

I voted for a real option but want pizza to what do?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I voted for a real option but want pizza to what do?

You'll have to order pizza while answering the poll I guess. I'll bring the beer.

[Emerald Archer]

I don't think it's an accurate representation of skill, as some amazing players can have extremely low scores.

And I agree it can be very painful to increase your score if you don't have mates to play with or a high enough base score to get into good pugs.

I don't think it's bad for the game though, I think it's nice for people who put in the time and effort to do high m+, to see where they stand among other m+ players, as well as have an easier time getting into pugs.

I don't think we need another area in which the game caters to casuals, I think m+ score is good to stick around, but I know it isn't all good, and it can be difficult to climb. But something doesn't need 100% perfect, in order to be worth keeping around.

[Deleted]

Missing the option:
I like it and use it and appreciate it but see issues arising from using third party tourniquets instead of a good in-game tool.

It has also made my game much more funny when I see all the people trying to get carried and asking for scores 5-10 times higher than they have (and having never completed any +10 in the dungeon they look for people for, they expect only people who ran a +20). Seems like an equivalent of those raid pug "leaders" who ask for 960 but set the ilvl treshold at 930 ... wonder why

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Missing the option:
I like it and use it and appreciate it but see issues arising from using third party tourniquets instead of a good in-game tool.

It has also made my game much more funny when I see all the people trying to get carried and asking for scores 5-10 times higher than they have (and having never completed any +10 in the dungeon they look for people for, they expect only people who ran a +20). Seems like an equivalent of those raid pug "leaders" who ask for 960 but set the ilvl treshold at 930 ... wonder why

Yep. I think group leaders forget that the addon works both ways. They put in description "15 carry group" when they've never done a 15, or "checking scores" when their own - even on their main - is lousy.

[Deleted]

Yeah thats a completely not biased poll

"I feel excluded by the system and dislike it." being the only option against it

A personal rating system based on a groups entire performance isnt going to show your individual skill level.

Same problem many mobas and fps have in ranked play.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I don't think it's an accurate representation of skill, as some amazing players can have extremely low scores.

And I agree it can be very painful to increase your score if you don't have mates to play with or a high enough base score to get into good pugs.

I don't think it's bad for the game though, I think it's nice for people who put in the time and effort to do high m+, to see where they stand among other m+ players, as well as have an easier time getting into pugs.

I don't think we need another area in which the game caters to casuals, I think m+ score is good to stick around, but I know it isn't all good, and it can be difficult to climb. But something doesn't need 100% perfect, in order to be worth keeping around.

That's a well thought-out answer EA. Kudos.

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Yeah thats a completely not biased poll

"I feel excluded by the system and dislike it." being the only option against it

A personal rating system based on a groups entire performance isnt going to show your individual skill level.

Same problem many mobas and fps have in ranked play.

I also included "Doesn't affect me but I think it's bad for the game." Maybe that's the one you were looking for? I mean, I figured if you're against it, you're either against it for personal reasons or on principal, so I included both options.

[Deleted]

That's a well thought-out answer EA. Kudos.

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I also included "Doesn't affect me but I think it's bad for the game." Maybe that's the one you were looking for? I mean, I figured if you're against it, you're either against it for personal reasons or on principal, so I included both options.

Thing is i've gone to great lenghts to block it out of my system so it probably has affected me and what groups i've gotten into. I dont know my own score and i dont want to. Its a silly system that awards premade group play and trolls which is weird because the system is mostly used in random group finder. Meaning it affects people who pug most of the time. Meaning they only have 20% control of their own score(not even that since you doing really well cant offset someone trying to troll the group).

System is flawed and unaccurate. Its not usable

[ydraw]

The biggest issue with the score is that it punishes people for avoiding certain dungeons.

The score should be an average of your best runs rather a total which records zero for dungeons you haven't done.

People have valid reasons for sticking to the same dungeons (gear mostly). Doesn't make them bad players, but raider.io score rates players who stick to a small roster of dungeons very badly.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Thing is i've gone to great lenghts to block it out of my system so it probably has affected me and what groups i've gotten into. I dont know my own score and i dont want to. Its a silly system that awards premade group play and trolls which is weird because the system is mostly used in random group finder. Meaning it affects people who pug most of the time. Meaning they only have 20% control of their own score(not even that since you doing really well cant offset someone trying to troll the group).

System is flawed and unaccurate. Its not usable

I accept flawed, but it is clearly not "not usable". Many are using it and find it helpful. I can think of several friends who mostly pug and have pugged their way to high scores (3000+), in part by using this addon to find other good players to pug with. The tool works both ways. It can be used by others to see your score, but it also allows you to see theirs. So when you join a group, at least you know what you are getting in to.

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The biggest issue with the score is that it punishes people for avoiding certain dungeons.

The score should be an average of your best runs rather a total which records zero for dungeons you haven't done.

People have valid reasons for sticking to the same dungeons (gear mostly). Doesn't make them bad players, but raider.io score rates players who stick to a small roster of dungeons very badly.

Fair enough, but it also gives you something to do: you can go run Seat of the Triumvirate once so at least you'll have a score there. I mean, it's late in the expansion. What else you got to do, other than run Antorus yet again?

[Deleted]

Its fine for mains but it does make it slightly annoying on alts. My main has a 3200 Raider.io score but obviously my alts are down between 1000-2000 which makes it difficult to get into 15s. But I do more stuff with friends and guildies so doesnt really affect me

[fiestatastic]

None of the above. I do 15's on a bunch of characters every week, and only 15's, usually 3 chesting them ... and I avoid players that care about their scores every time.

Players that care about this stupid side game m+ score are usually total shit, always lower than raiders, lower in interrupts, and are inclined to desert. The way the scoring system works if they desert a m+ that they even slightly suspect isn't going to boost their score they have a major incentive to do so. It's complete shit.

So my option is I use it, and don't pick up players that give a shit about it, and instead pick up players that are around 1k score and have mythic raid kills because those players are good players that are going to get the dungeon done in good time and care about the game of WoW and not some stupid shit side game that has nothing to do with being a decent player of the game of WoW, which is the game I play.

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I accept flawed, but it is clearly not "not usable". Many are using it and find it helpful. I can think of several friends who mostly pug and have pugged their way to high scores (3000+), in part by using this addon to find other good players to pug with. The tool works both ways. It can be used by others to see your score, but it also allows you to see theirs. So when you join a group, at least you know what you are getting in to.

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Fair enough, but it also gives you something to do: you can go run Seat of the Triumvirate once so at least you'll have a score there. I mean, it's late in the expansion. What else you got to do, other than run Antorus yet again?

Wasting time is wasting time. Most intelligent people value their time. I envy your plethora of extra time, enjoy it.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Its fine for mains but it does make it slightly annoying on alts. My main has a 3200 Raider.io score but obviously my alts are down between 1000-2000 which makes it difficult to get into 15s. But I do more stuff with friends and guildies so doesnt really affect me

You can link your main's score, so they see both. Someone looking at my new bear, for example, would see his score is maybe 1100 or so (hasn't tanked all the dungeons) but my main is 2450.

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None of the above. I do 15's on a bunch of characters every week, and only 15's, usually 3 chesting them ... and I avoid players that care about their scores every time.

Players that care about this stupid side game m+ score are usually total shit, always lower than raiders, lower in interrupts, and are inclined to desert. The way the scoring system works if they desert a m+ that they even slightly suspect isn't going to boost their score they have a major incentive to do so. It's complete shit.

So my option is I use it, and don't pick up players that give a shit about it, and instead pick up players that are around 1k score and have mythic raid kills because those players are good players that are going to get the dungeon done in good time and care about the game of WoW and not some stupid shit side game that has nothing to do with being a decent player of the game of WoW, which is the game I play.

So I'm guessing you picked the last option? You sound triggered.
(no offense - I put the option in because I knew some people felt this way).Nvm; confusing my polls. You sound like you would be against it on principal, but I confess I did not anticipate your reply and did not include a good option in this poll for you.

Wasting time is wasting time. Most intelligent people value their time. I envy your plethora of extra time, enjoy it.

WoW is wasting time. Except as entertainment. I guess we all spend our entertainment time doing what's entertaining for us.

[Deleted]

Simple: I have an ~3k rating on my main (well had to check this out, I normally don't care about it), but on my alts I just want to do my +15 or 16 every week and be done then. None of those alts have more than 500 score.
The problem is:
When I hear 2k+ rating für a +15 I just ask myself how bad someone can be to ask für a 2k rating for shit like this? When I'm right, u get for all dungeons +15 a score of--- what? 1000? 1500?

It's the same with the Ilvl-Addon in wotlk. It still says nothing about the player or the skill. There are crap-players who just have tons of gold and buy their ranking. An then u are with a 2.5k in an instance who does not know how volcanic is working. *facepalm*

[Deleted]

The problem is:
When I hear 2k+ rating für a +15 I just ask myself how bad someone can be to ask für a 2k rating for shit like this?

and then you look at the leader's score and see some grey/white numbers and know you did well to avoid that trap and have another laugh I do!

[fiestatastic]

You can link your main's score, so they see both. Someone looking at my new bear, for example, would see his score is maybe 1100 or so (hasn't tanked all the dungeons) but my main is 2450.

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So I'm guessing you picked the last option? You sound triggered.
(no offense - I put the option in because I knew some people felt this way).Nvm; confusing my polls. You sound like you would be against it on principal, but I confess I did not anticipate your reply and did not include a good option in this poll for you.

WoW is wasting time. Except as entertainment. I guess we all spend our entertainment time doing what's entertaining for us.

I guess I'm a little triggered by it because it's so close to being a really good tool, but because of the shortcomings ended up being shit.

[Tradu]

Doesn't affect me at all, seeing as I don't PuG any of my 12 weekly +15s. I do think it's a useful tool for those who do PuG their keys, however, even if some people use it wrong(like with any tool)

[Ribesal]

Fair enough, but it also gives you something to do: you can go run Seat of the Triumvirate once so at least you'll have a score there. I mean, it's late in the expansion. What else you got to do, other than run Antorus yet again?

If it would work this way, the whole system would be ok, but it doesn't.
Your run has to be on the top 100 in one of the participating realms for this dungeon in this week.
Haven't checked the boards recently, but the last time i did every run below 18 past thursday (or wednesday if american realm) simply gave zero points, since it wasn't listed in the leaderboards. I think now every run below 20 a few hours after reset give no points or even highes ones?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Simple: I have an ~3k rating on my main (well had to check this out, I normally don't care about it), but on my alts I just want to do my +15 or 16 every week and be done then. None of those alts have more than 500 score.
The problem is:
When I hear 2k+ rating für a +15 I just ask myself how bad someone can be to ask für a 2k rating for shit like this? When I'm right, u get for all dungeons +15 a score of--- what? 1000? 1500?

It's the same with the Ilvl-Addon in wotlk. It still says nothing about the player or the skill. There are crap-players who just have tons of gold and buy their ranking. An then u are with a 2.5k in an instance who does not know how volcanic is working. *facepalm*

In my experience, you can get to 1500 just bluffing your way through, tank-n-spank, tossing in the occasional stun or interrupt. To get to 2000+, you need to get better at knowing what needs interrupting and when to time stuns. Not a precise divide, of course, because great dps can zerg stuff that isn't meant to be zerged, but that was my experience.

So the difference in someone who's earned 1500 and 2000 (carries aside) is how well they've learned the instances.

But if you really want to make best use of the addon, you look at what they've done in the particular dungeon you are queuing for. An expert in Arcway might not know Seat, for example. Lots of players still haven't learned Seat. If you have a high Seat key, and care what happens to it, you'll want to find players with success in that dungeon.

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Doesn't affect me at all, seeing as I don't PuG any of my 12 weekly +15s.

That's where I was at the end of last year.

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If it would work this way, the whole system would be ok, but it doesn't.
Your run has to be on the top 100 in one of the participating realms for this dungeon in this week.
Haven't checked the boards recently, but the last time i did every run below 18 past thursday (or wednesday if american realm) simply gave zero points, since it wasn't listed in the leaderboards. I think now every run below 20 a few hours after reset give no points or even highes ones?

I don't know exactly how many runs per realm are included now, but I do know they significantly increased it last patch. Thinking it's 1000 now instead of 100? Maybe someone here knows for sure?