WoW token done right

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Thank you for providing me with a new perspective on the token. I've been ambivalent on it since it's implementation but with gold selling spammers still existing I had no idea what position to take on it when considering it in Classic. Now I hope they let Classic be Classic in order to re-originate the old ecosystem of wow for those who want it. Regardless if I'll ever play it.

Thank you. I try to find a middle ground.

[Deficineiron]

Thank you. I try to find a middle ground.

You are, reasonably, framing the topic from the viewpoint of a player.

Actiblizz frames it, even more reasonably, from the viewpoint of what this can do for their balance sheet. the way they maximize that, in their view, is push it as close to retail as possible without saying so, with a few pointly loudly conceded on (while trying to undermine same in code) to make the useful unwise think blizz is listening.

classic proponents need to be asking for pristine 1:1 servers as a sub-type now and just assume blizz is planning to make frankenclassic.

what I think blizz will end up doing - because 'the community' will demand it, according to them -

1) outdoor tuning/pacing around the 3.0.2 level, relevant to 1-60 areas.
2) modification of zone quest structure (more linear/less choices) and narrative (player needs to be some hero somehow)
3) added flight points and gy
4) instance quests in entrance to instance
5) mass nerfing of instance/elite difficulty, removal of some trash in instance to speed up runs. I suspect some blizz folks would like to put the 'new improved' instance maps in game (like scholo) but doubt that happens
6) raid difficulties.
7) They will want to put group porting in despite saying no, as well as LFR, but will need to find a way to do it and claim it is something else.
8) achievements
9) altered pvp honor system, likely altered bg rules to accomodate max 15-20 minutes per bg.
10) perversion of old talent system into something more like a later version, whether it is 4.0 or present.
11) class homogenization in the name of balance.
12) modified loot system to allow much faster gearing and some kind of token/guaranteed progress approach.

[Xecks]

You are, reasonably, framing the topic from the viewpoint of a player.

Actiblizz frames it, even more reasonably, from the viewpoint of what this can do for their balance sheet. the way they maximize that, in their view, is push it as close to retail as possible without saying so, with a few pointly loudly conceded on (while trying to undermine same in code) to make the useful unwise think blizz is listening.

classic proponents need to be asking for pristine 1:1 servers as a sub-type now and just assume blizz is planning to make frankenclassic.

what I think blizz will end up doing - because 'the community' will demand it, according to them -

1) outdoor tuning/pacing around the 3.0.2 level, relevant to 1-60 areas.
2) modification of zone quest structure (more linear/less choices) and narrative (player needs to be some hero somehow)
3) added flight points and gy
4) instance quests in entrance to instance
5) mass nerfing of instance/elite difficulty, removal of some trash in instance to speed up runs. I suspect some blizz folks would like to put the 'new improved' instance maps in game (like scholo) but doubt that happens
6) raid difficulties.
7) They will want to put group porting in despite saying no, as well as LFR, but will need to find a way to do it and claim it is something else.
8) achievements
9) altered pvp honor system, likely altered bg rules to accomodate max 15-20 minutes per bg.
10) perversion of old talent system into something more like a later version, whether it is 4.0 or present.
11) class homogenization in the name of balance.
12) modified loot system to allow much faster gearing and some kind of token/guaranteed progress approach.

so make it legion right? do you even see yourself type? every time i see a post like this i just imagine someone sitting over their keyboard and taking a huge dump on their keyboard and then pressing send.

[JohnnyMccrum]

Embriel, I don't mean to be a dick, but can you please stop posting? It's clear that you don't like/want Classic.

Stop trying to ruin the game before it comes out because you want people to Play BfA. everyone can see through you, nobody wants to reply to someone so childish, transparent and asinine, but I will.

Please, stop.

[Soon-TM]

so make it legion right? do you even see yourself type? every time i see a post like this i just imagine someone sitting over their keyboard and taking a huge dump on their keyboard and then pressing send.

I think that the poster you quoted is talking about what Blizzard intends to do regardless of their customers' experience. If they believe (right or not) that a Patchwerk-WoW will yield them more monies, they'll just do it, game integrity be damned.

[DesMephisto]

FYI, 1000g was $100 back in vanilla.

[Xecks]

I think that the poster you quoted is talking about what Blizzard intends to do regardless of their customers' experience. If they believe (right or not) that a Patchwerk-WoW will yield them more monies, they'll just do it, game integrity be damned.

i guess. just makes me imagine that every time i see a post with those thoughts in it.my bad if he diddnt mean it like i thought he did.

[Deficineiron]

so make it legion right? do you even see yourself type? every time i see a post like this i just imagine someone sitting over their keyboard and taking a huge dump on their keyboard and then pressing send.

you personalize it, and end up having a viewpoint with little attachment to reality.

Activision-Blizzard is a fortune 500 video game company, publicly traded. they want to make as much money as possible from this and they will do it the Kotick way - accessible, more accessible, most accessible.

This concept is the single most important factor in what they plan to do with classic.

- - - Updated - - -

i guess. just makes me imagine that every time i see a post with those thoughts in it.my bad if he diddnt mean it like i thought he did.

it isn't about you or me. it is about ATVI shareholders (of which Kotick is the largest individual shareholder and also runs a group that owns I think 25% of the company).

People expect this team to make a 'game history-we don't care how many people play' product? They just took on several billion in debt to fund the King acquisition, after paying back much of the Vivendi deal, and in any event when did Kotick release products for sentimental reasons rather than to make money?.

His method of making money is to make games as accessible as possible for as broad a target market as possible.

There is no way classic gets out the door without them doing a kotick job on it. Just look at what has been done to wow in those areas since the merger pre-3.0.2. classic as-was is nearly the antithesis of what his company does.

The bigger challenge for blizzard is selling this to the fans and keeping them blind until beta, at the earliest. promising a 'classic game experience' is a way to lie to them morally without lying in fact.

expecting blizzard to release an authentic classic version, tuning, quirks, and all, is like expecting mcdonalds to release a quality ground-beef burger with a strong taste. It simply isn't how a mass market product company does things.

[huth]

you personalize it, and end up having a viewpoint with little attachment to reality.

Activision-Blizzard is a fortune 500 video game company, publicly traded. they want to make as much money as possible from this and they will do it the Kotick way - accessible, more accessible, most accessible.

This concept is the single most important factor in what they plan to do with classic.

Which, if we get down to it, was the main draw of classic WoW even back then.

[Soon-TM]

Which, if we get down to it, was the main draw of classic WoW even back then.

I expect many ppl to be fooled by the pre-Cata world and a couple of minor things, such as reagents for spells, while the game is, for all effects and intents, just another retail server, but capped at 60. Of course, I could be wrong; actually, I hope I am.

[Deficineiron]

I expect many ppl to be fooled by the pre-Cata world and a couple of minor things, such as reagents for spells, while the game is, for all effects and intents, just another retail server, but capped at 60. Of course, I could be wrong; actually, I hope I am.

i hope we are too.

I have followed activision and specifically bobby kotick's career with interest. There is an awful lot to admire in his career in the big picture. that said, ...

I cannot see him letting a product ignore or not pursue the broadest possible market in design marketing and tuning/accessibility.

[Xecks]

i hope we are too.

I have followed activision and specifically bobby kotick's career with interest. There is an awful lot to admire in his career in the big picture. that said, ...

I cannot see him letting a product ignore or not pursue the broadest possible market in design marketing and tuning/accessibility.

i hope youre wrong.

[Deficineiron]

i hope youre wrong.

do you think I am wrong?

I hope I am wrong. I do not think I am wrong.

[Xecks]

do you think I am wrong?

I hope I am wrong. I do not think I am wrong.

i think you have the possibility of being right and you could also be wrong. im just hoping they dont do what youre saying.

[Staysafe]

do you think I am wrong?

I hope I am wrong. I do not think I am wrong.

You are wrong. The players interested in playing a game like the one you described above are already playing Legion. Let's pretend Blizzard doesn't care at all about their players and are just looking to maximize profit. The players interested in Classic WoW are players that are only interested in the authentic Vanilla WoW gameplay experience. If there are changes of the magnitude that mentioned, Blizzard will alienate those players that they stand to profit from. Millions of players, by the way. I can't think of a single person excited for Classic WoW that would play, let alone pay for the game you described.

[Deficineiron]

You are wrong. The players interested in playing a game like the one you described above are already playing Legion. Let's pretend Blizzard doesn't care at all about their players and are just looking to maximize profit. The players interested in Classic WoW are players that are only interested in the authentic Vanilla WoW gameplay experience. If there are changes of the magnitude that mentioned, Blizzard will alienate those players that they stand to profit from. Millions of players, by the way. I can't think of a single person excited for Classic WoW that would play, let alone pay for the game you described.

I think this is a good counter-argument to my position. For the record, wow went to 10 million subs worldwide by early 2008 and 11 million subs worldwide by pre-wotlk, and only showed a net gain of 1 million (twice) from that time forward, worldwide. in early 2008 wow was still a very demanding game relative to anything 3.0.2 and later.

I think there is a big market for a game requiring some mental engagement, time investment, etc. etc. etc. essentially wow version pre-3.0.2 and even more, pre-2.3 would work. In other words, I personally agree with you.

Where we disagree is that I don't think blizzard will get that game out the door without severely modifying it to meet modern game design theory on accessibility, 'see all the content' and qol and handholding/freegear. My issue is with the a/b ceo and largest individual shareholder - bobby kotick. this is the guy who became a self-made billionaire making games as accessible as possible and then making the next iteration even more accessible.

corporations do not always make 'good' decisions, and often it comes down to executive suite personalities. additionally, they may well think they can make more money doing it the Kotick way. finally, they may not want to risk NOT doing it the kotick way since that is harder to defend come annual review time if it underperforms. If they make it really accessible and it bombs, well we did it the right way mr. bobby. if they release it like it was - well that wasn't so smart was it.

based on wow development direction post-merger, I suspect blizzard tried early on to argue the need for some persistent difficulty/progress through the game during wotlk live and cat. development, got the ok on the heroic 4.0 dungeon tuning, and then lost. the 4.0 heroic dungeon tuning was the last gasp of those folks. Now, anything that is remotely challenging has to be an optional difficulty setting.

I wouldnt be surprised if there are Names (and former Names) at blizzard who think similarly to you (and me) in terms of how a legitimate early version of wow could perform financially.

Honestly, in the fantasy world where this happens, I would make it ball-buster hard. make instances tuned like bc instances and the harder ones like bc heroics, relative to dungeon level and available talents/skills at that level.

[Xecks]

its just a matter of if they can get it out the door. its a hard ask for the people who have been wanting "real" vanilla. the sad thing is no conversation is being had about the things they directly asked us to talk about right after blizzcon.

the dungeons being 15 or 10 man. the patch progression or franken patch or release schedule of the dungeons and raids.

its all being polluted by people wanting qol changes and such garbage.

if we all could gather together and just ask in one voice for the authentic thing it would go a long way.

[Gaidax]

if we all could gather together and just ask in one voice for the authentic thing it would go a long way.

Who are "we" and what this "one voice" is? It's not a hive-mind here and various people want various things - gotta deal with that fact of life.

[Xecks]

Who are "we" and what this "one voice" is? It's not a hive-mind here and various people want various things - gotta deal with that fact of life.

ya i diddnt think of that.

[Deficineiron]

ya i diddnt think of that.

blizzard certainly thought of it, that is why they are looking for 'feedback from the community' - they can get whatever they want to hear no matter how retailish it is.