Dungeons 80-90, absolute disaster atm.

[Laerrus]

Has Blizz overtuned MoP and Cata dungeons or are people generally still unaware that you have to do mechanics since the overhaul? It's funny and frustrating at the same time. Instead of dispelling a 30s debuff that ticks for 4k each second the healer rather heals through it and lets the tank die, when I ask why he/she didn't dispel I get no answer. Blizzard has really built a game where most are absolute unable to do basic things by now. :/

It was probably a noob. Don't get frustrated with them, just tell them what they need to do in order to prevent the wipe. If they don't comply or get pissy, kick 'em.

I see why Blizz is making these changes, but I am a bit worried it is too late. Too many people have gotten used to the single player adventure that has been WoW since mid-WoTLK.

[Kallisto]

Unforgiving mechanics in LFG actually sounds pretty fun, I’ve always felt that steamrolling content was never any fun. That being said, I do mostly questing as I level nowadays, and if I join a group in LFG for a dungeon that I’m not enjoying, I’ll just leave and resume my questing.

While I agree they sound fun, and generally are fun when you have a group of friends. When pugging the cataclysm dungeons were likely the main cause of the biggest non WoD related sub drop in wow history. Most people just couldn't do them because they didn't have the mindset for them. A lot of the playerbase just wants to run in, aoe and rush on.

Many Grim Batols I'd freeze the first real mobs after the troggs, try to keep another focues for tranq if needed and another ready for interupts. But just as the trap goes down the tanks would always rush in to AoE and be destroyed in seconds. People complained about dungeon difficulty back then. Ghostcrawler did his "Get good." post which basically caused more people to just cry and leave.

Which is why since then from 4.3 onwards dungeons have been mostly easy. Majority of dungeon runners don't want the difficulty behind it, they want simple AoE fest. 4.3 also brought out LFR and Transmog. The three together basically stopped the heavy bleed that Cata was going through at the time. Easy quable dungeons makes blizzard money. M+ is there for those who want the harder dungeons now, and even then you get same people wanting that to be quable.

[SirCowdog]

. M+ is there for those who want the harder dungeons now, and even then you get same people wanting that to be quable.

I've never felt that there was anything intrinsically wrong with allowing people to queue for M+, so long as Blizzard was willing to stand their ground and not cave to the inevitable calls for nerfing.

And even if they didn't, M+ especially makes nerfing pointless, since people would just progress to a point where they failed again anyway. It's a self-correcting system.

The only thing that would really be necessary is to restrict which level of M+ you could queue for, based on what you've already successfully cleared. But otherwise I think it would be fine, and I think the arguments against it are overreacting.

[MechaCThun]

People have been conditioned for the longest time now to zerg through content.

I remember when Cataclysm launched and you HAD to do mechanics (as well as CC trash pulls) to clear heroic dungeons. People weren't used to that throughout WotLK.

Hell, you see it to this day when doing Pre-made Group Finder for current content like Antorus.

[americandavey]

BRC is the best. Tanks not melting the third boss, people moving when they have that one spell on them from the trash. It's worth playing through for the lols.

To be honest. Before the scaling, people didnt know burning armor mechanic.

[Themanintobuildafire]

Glad I carried my 2nd account char with a high level before they nerfed that way by 90% xp.

Blizz just wants people to feel boredom and unsub from this game. Why else make things so hard and unfun?

[Corroc]

I remember when Cataclysm launched and you HAD to do mechanics (as well as CC trash pulls) to clear heroic dungeons. People weren't used to that throughout WotLK.

So you dont think there is anyting wrong with normal dungeons meant for levelling requiring the same as heroic dungeons?

I laugh at all the parrots coming here telling saying this:

You mean people have to actually do mechanics now?

What a concept..

Its not about mechanics its the base dmg compared to base healing and tank dmg mitigation being off. people would know this if they actually played the game instead of living in the forums.

[greg098]

I don't do dungeons while leveling because I can't be bothered as its quicker to quest. I've found that staying in zones 5 levels past its expire (Stay in Outlands to 85) is much faster to level then actually going to 80+ zones as you can do the quests faster because you can kill the mobs quicker. I leveled from 81-82 in 20 mins in nagrand.

[darklogrus]

People can't do the mechanics from Legion and you expect them to do/remember mechanics from 8-11 yrs ago?

[derpkitteh]

mop dungeons are easy, it's the cata dungeons are fucking impossible.

i won't even q for them.

[Tokas]

tried to do throne of the tides on my 81 shaman healer yesterday, fully loomed, enchanted looms, 230-270 items in non loom slots
tank was level 80, party was 80-84
1st boss: melee hits tank for 7-8k, the poison dot ticks for 8k every 3 seconds
my healing surge: 7k, i could not keep the party up without the tank dropping low, damage barely scratched the boss, we were wiping at ~40% after both me and the pally we had for dps used every healing cooldown we had (and he was a very good player and tried dispelling as much of the poison effect as possible (shamans no longer have that ability))
we gave up after 4 attempts, the 80-90 range is absolutely overtuned at the moment, at least for most dungeons.

is this the boss with mindcontrol shit? skipped him as well

[Lazuli]

Wiping in Cata dungeons just means they are noobs that didn't play during that time, I've literally never seen anyone but myself jump during the slams in stonecore on the adds before the dragon boss for example. Maybe my expectations are high cuz I did the meta heroic achievement current-content pre nerf. They are a fuckin joke now compared to that. Even timewalking is 10x easier.

No one is used to difficulty, which is the problem nowadays, Blizz trains everyone to be retarded with super easy faceroll content then increase difficulty and expect the avg player to succeed it's essentially Cata heroics 2.0. And in case everyone has forgot, this was an issue in Cata dungeons pre-7.3.5 to a lesser extent, they've always been the worst dungeons to run because they have mechanics in them.

[Deleted]

That's what happens when something is suddenly not tuned for the lowest common denominator anymore...

[hulkgor]

Hey, I have been leveling quite a lot through dungeons from 20-110 (to get all heritage armor) and the worst dungeons are by far 80-90, namely MoP and Cataclysm dungeons. The people can't handle them, you absolutely have to do mechanics in them or you are more often than not wiping. Healers not dispelling, tanks not moving boss or moving out of a lethal mechanic resulting in wipes. I really enjoy the dungeons but almost nobody does them, I am sitting in queue for up to 1 hour to get a dungeon, even as tank (waited 40 minutes on my pally tank).

Has Blizz overtuned MoP and Cata dungeons or are people generally still unaware that you have to do mechanics since the overhaul? It's funny and frustrating at the same time. Instead of dispelling a 30s debuff that ticks for 4k each second the healer rather heals through it and lets the tank die, when I ask why he/she didn't dispel I get no answer. Blizzard has really built a game where most are absolute unable to do basic things by now. :/

Dungeons have digressed into an AoE, chain-pulling snoozefest that the typical player today won't be able to manage basic mechanics like the ones you mention.

More so, some dungeons are more punishing then others on the leveling process. Dire Maul North is out of whack for healers and tanks, which don't seem to realize Mortal Strike debuff exists. Throne of Tides squid optional boss smashes 99% of groups due to various dangerous mechanics (interrupt ability, ground effects, stop attacking). The latter WOTLK dungeons in Forge of Souls and Pit of Saron require mechanics being dealt with properly or you get ravaged, Cataclysm has a bunch of mechanics to deal with. I do think that Pandarias dungeons are probably the most trivial ones, with less to worry about (Gate, Brewery, Temple, Monastery are all as easy as they come).

I love that added difficulty. I don't mind wiping in them, and trying to point out what to do, or what to avoid to the team, and most of the times (since allied races) players actually deal with the issues and get happy when they defeat them. I like it. Sure, sometimes you get the occasional leaver, but that's not very frequent. Already leveled two chars to 110 since allied races, and really eager for the next ones!

But yea, for a 'fast leveling aspect', those dungeons can really hamper your speed.

- - - Updated - - -

Wiping in Cata dungeons just means they are noobs that didn't play during that time, I've literally never seen anyone but myself jump during the slams in stonecore on the adds before the dragon boss for example.

Absolutely! I loved the initial Cataclysm heroic difficulty (gutted within the first two weeks). That jump on Quake was a really unique mechanic that was never replicated since, and i don't think many people know about. I do make mention of it whenever i go there and see people hit, like a "hey guys, fun fact, if you jump on this stone dudes Quake, you won't take damage!", most people ignore it, but i see a couple hopping around the next similar mobs

[Gnosk]

The good news is once you reach legion the game is easier. Makes zero sense the game is harder at lower levels.

[Lazuli]

Absolutely! I loved the initial Cataclysm heroic difficulty (gutted within the first two weeks). That jump on Quake was a really unique mechanic that was never replicated since, and i don't think many people know about. I do make mention of it whenever i go there and see people hit, like a "hey guys, fun fact, if you jump on this stone dudes Quake, you won't take damage!", most people ignore it, but i see a couple hopping around the next similar mobs

Yeah I liked a lot of the mechanics. That was some of the most fun I"ve had in WoW, but Blizz needs to cater to scrubs now and heroic has lot all its meaning. Now high level M+ are 'heroics' for those of us that remember actual difficulty and mechanics in dungeons. The shitty part about M+ is some really fucktarded affixes which are only meant to destroy pugs and annoy you, plus no queue so good luck getting a 15 done without a complete guild group *sigh*. I work graveyard a lot and its extremely difficult to get my weekly chest in sometimes. I will have to stay up when I should be sleeping to get it done while waiting for guildies and at that point I feel like a damn zombie lol.

I dunno, I really miss dungeons being challenging and giving pre=raid gear. I miss 1 difficulty fits all. I hate all this dancing around 20 difficulties bullshit, it's extremely cancerous to me.

The good news is once you reach legion the game is easier. Makes zero sense the game is harder at lower levels.

This is true the level of difficulty makes absolutely 0 sense, the balance in this game is sooooo fucked. Legion zones and dungeons are a walk in the park to the point of being a joke. Shouldn't it be completely backwards to what we have now?

[Danvash]

Ah, people still think heirlooms are better than dungeon items. I am fully blue dungeon equip with all my leveling characters and if I compare them with heirlooms they are all except one piece (weapon) worse, because they don't have the right stat distribution. You can sim yourself even at level 60 with your current items and talents on Mr Robot for example and get custom weights. I do that whenever I get a new passive/spell or talent so basically every 5th level more or less and dungeon items are by far better if you level purely through them. Starting with BC you even get sockets and can buy +8 (best stat of your spec) for 1g each and I constantly stomp full heirloom in DPS.

I'm not twinking out my character though. I'm wearing heirlooms for the bonus exp.

[Qnubi]

I'm not twinking out my character though. I'm wearing heirlooms for the bonus exp.

I enjoy min/max more than I enjoy faster leveling. I was just pointing out that "full heirloom" doesn't mean you have better items than someone that runs dungeons 24/7 and uses the drops. It used to, but luckily they changed that making it more effective in terms of power to equip the drops you get from dungeons. Right now the itemization is: Dungeon items > Heirloom > quest greens.

With very few exceptions for example trinkets since they are so rare and melee weapons because of the weapon damage. But my fire mage wears full dungeon blues and all except 1 piece would be worse if I changed to heirloom. Rings and amulets in particular are really crappy as heirloom since they have main stats still, but secondary stats are worth more for almost every class nowadays.

[Rotted]

All I can say,

Good. I'm tired of seeing people bum rush lower content and not learning their class basics.

Harder tuned dungeons are a pain for those of us who have been there done that, but its a good thing for new players to see; ignoring mechanics and roles has consequences

[Sprinky]

Its mainly down to the healer as I don't usually have any problems. I always heal as I don't trust anyone else to do it. You sure notice when the group are idiots but I can imagine how it would go with a bad healer.