Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

"Infamous 'wall of NO'"? I've never heard of it. I clearly said that the statement wasn't absolute. Perhaps re-read my post if you're going to leverage that aspect of the quote.

The "Wall of NO".

Link me official statements. Show me the PR speak. Don't be the person who asks for citations yet presents none. That's disingenuous and you know it. I don't care about what you "could" do. Do it or sit down.

PR speak for "demon hunters are not happening".

There are no time statutes to open forum discussions. I didn't necro the thread, so I'm not sure what point you are attempting to make. The implication that I'm "late" to the conversation could be said for the entire pro-High Elf community.

I never said you "necro'ed" the thread. I simply mentioned you butted in a conversation that did not involve you without knowing all the facts. The poster I replied to said "Blizzard has literally said high elves are not happening".

- - - Updated - - -

Playing the devil's advocate here; but as many examples you can show that "no" changed, others can show you that "yes" ideas has too. Maybe even moreso than the few no they have done.

The High Elf may appear much differently than you expect, hell it is the reason VE even came to be. Blizzard believed the HE populous is very minuscule to do anything with. Otherwise... Why else would they make Blood Elves the originators of the VE race and tell more of the story that HE are being folded in from the Alliance end? Why couldn't they just tell a story of the few HE becoming this race in its entirety? Occam's Razor suggests it's because Blizz does not see the HE being that big. They literally include a Horde race for an example of bolstered ranks.

Honestly, Blizz made VE to be the Alliance answer for this. And being one of the more popular ARs currently, I wouldn't put them passed the idea that Blizzard may make plans to add more options to AR (which they should anyway, NB and HMT are drastically slim) and with that more "HE inspired" options along with them.

Actively the HE don't even have an established home, I am certain they can excuse it by saying a few sought to dabble in Void and excepted their new place in doing so. It'd excuse the options from being overtly purple, but also make a reason why the racial still triggers.

And honestly, I do not seeing Blizzard even stepping that far to do it. Let alone making a whole new race.

The problem here is that Blizzard created the VE while at the same time "laughing at our faces", so to speak, since the VEs share the same problems that they claimed HEs have, with "minuscule population" being the most blatant of those issues. Void elves literally came from a single group of researchers.

And then we have the "void elves fit the story better" excuse, which, insofar as how 8.3 has been presented and how the expansion's lore has expanded, has been shown to be nothing but a load of bull since void elves have basically played no essential part whatsoever in the story. They haven't been shown to bring nothing of value that couldn't be done by the others. The 8.3 patch, the "void content", which would have been their moment to shine... so far there's not a single mention other than possible future of them betraying the Alliance.

- - - Updated - - -

So No, you don't want those elves, you want another kind of elf which is very different, as it has a different model.

If you want Silver Covenant/Highvale High elves in WoW, then you want these people:

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...-new-model.jpg

Anything with a different posture is not a High elf unless stated so by Blizzard. Right now there are no High elves which have a different posture from Blood and Void elves.

Blood elves literally did not have a different posture/model from night elves until they were made playable. Think about that.

[protip]

It's a plot hole. I don't think Blizzard developers have studied genetics or medicine to integrate these concepts into their story. they didn't even integrate basic concepts like species and race correctly (for Blizzard the word race encompasses the concept of spice and race at the same time)

What is the physiological difference between healthy twins?

If this isn't pedantic, I don't know what is, but here's a link to the abstract of a medical study discussing some minor physiological differences between twins. Do I know what they're talking about? Hell no. Does it matter? Of course not.

Again, we don't know if they are talking about species or races. According to Blizzard standards, a minimal phenotypic change (another skin color or different horns) is enough to convert an individual belonging to one race to another (e.g. allied races). BE have those phenotypic changes (obviously not the horns). remember that HE have more pale skin and their hair tones are usually pale too, instead BE has more tanned skin besides having another variety of hair colors, plus their green and golden eyes ( the two mutations I mentioned earlier).

What they're referring to is a Warcraft race. It's from an article in the Warcraft Encyclopedia about the "Mortal Races." Read through some of the articles if you like. This was my introduction to the blood elves when I started the game, and therefore the foundation of my understanding of the blood elves in general. The message is very clear - the line between blood elf and high elf is very thin, and it is neither cultural nor physical. The difference is mana tap, which is gone now that the Sunwell is restored. So what is left? It's literally just politics.

That article is now 13 years old, and that's the story that got me interested in the game in the first place. If you tell me a story like "They were different groups all along," I'm not going to support your idea because that's not the story of the Blood Elves that I've been told all this time. There are plenty of people who don't care about the story, but the story of Kael'thas and the Blood Elves is one of the most popular story lines in the franchise and Blood Elves are the single most popular race in the game, so I trust that Blizzard isn't going to retcon the core of their identity.

[Shakana]

To explain myself better.

High elf forgives Blood Elf, Blood Elf forgives High Elf = They come back to Silvermoon = Blood Elf and High Elf mix (green, gold and blue eyes customizations) = They return to be called High elves = Understanding each other's motives and accepting the opposite faction = Neutral to play on both factions.

What this would bring: High Elves to be playable, no problems with the eyes showing different practices and values. Lor'themar would too redeem himself.

Void Elves being a mixture of Belf + Helf, would make now more sense, but still choose to be alliance.

(Just another suggestion/idea)

[Timester]

OK, I get people wanting High Elves (not that I agree). But now what telling that High Elves and Blood Elves are different is complete lunacy. That differs the HE and BE is the political affiliation, that's it. Heck, with Unifaction sweeping into the lore, not even the political affiliation is a valid point.

Since Kael died, Lor'themar slowly reverted the changes down by the fallen prince, even accepting High Elven pilgrimage to the Sunwell. The Blood Elven society is very Thalassian right now, simply missing a king.

[FlubberPuddy]

To explain myself better.

High elf forgives Blood Elf, Blood Elf forgives High Elf = They come back to Silvermoon = Blood Elf and High Elf mix (green, gold and blue eyes customizations) = They return to be called High elves = Understanding each other's motives and accepting the opposite faction = Neutral to play on both factions.

What this would bring: High Elves to be playable, no problems with the eyes showing different practices and values. Lor'themar would too redeem himself.

Void Elves being a mixture of Belf + Helf, would make now more sense, but still choose to be alliance.

(Just another suggestion/idea)

I see what you're saying.

Though as far as WoW has gone they've shown the reverse more often than what you're suggesting: That is, they've more often shown about Blood Elves and/or Blood Elf leadership thinking of going back to the Alliance.

We had this immediately in TBC when there was political unrest within Silvermoon where some Blood Elves admonished joining the Horde and were silenced for it, in MoP where Lorthemar was thinking of rejoining the Alliance, and the Void Elves that joined Alliance also said before their transformation they never agreed that joining the Horde was right, then there's also that Three Sisters Comic where Vereesa Windrunner hopes that "Blood Elves make the right choice and come back to the Alliance".

So if anything, if we were to go down the path of High Elves and Blood Elves forgiving each other. It more likely points in the direction that Blood Elves come to the Alliance.

I believe all the above examples just continue to reinforce how faction loyal the High Elves are to the Alliance since WoW began. I forget it was you or someone else, but somebody said a High Elf would rather die than join the Horde and I believe all these examples shown from WoW portray this to be true.

[Strippling]

Blood Elves aren't HIGH ELVES anymore. How hard can it be for people like you to understand ?

Sheesh, and you're pretending to know the lore better than us ? That's just pathetic, really.

Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

[Shakana]

I see what you're saying.

Though as far as WoW has gone they've shown the reverse more often than what you're suggesting: That is, they've more often shown about Blood Elves and/or Blood Elf leadership thinking of going back to the Alliance.

We had this immediately in TBC when there was political unrest within Silvermoon where some Blood Elves admonished joining the Horde and were silenced for it, in MoP where Lorthemar was thinking of rejoining the Alliance, and the Void Elves that joined Alliance also said before their transformation they never agreed that joining the Horde was right, then there's also that Three Sisters Comic where Vereesa Windrunner hopes that "Blood Elves make the right choice and come back to the Alliance".

So if anything, if we were to go down the path of High Elves and Blood Elves forgiving each other. It more likely points in the direction that Blood Elves come to the Alliance.

I believe all the above examples just continue to reinforce how faction loyal the High Elves are to the Alliance since WoW began. I forget it was you or someone else, but somebody said a High Elf would rather die than join the Horde and I believe all these examples shown from WoW portray this to be true.

Blizzard's fault a bit when it comes to factions wars. They now were saying we were going to basically "merge" then we are not. We will still stay the same.

But i think, that with this union that came on Varoks death, at least, some kind of understanding is risen, that we start wars and are mad to each other because of the past, that doesn't fit the purpose when we need to unite against a big bad all the time. I think forgiveness should exist. And mostly even on the blood elves and high elves.

I'm not saying for High to join Horde, i'm saying they would come back home, regardless being horde or not, and then make them neutral like pandaren.

Alliance could play a green eyed helf, and horde could be a blue eyed helf. Because they would be renamed High Elves again. Something that should never have been in the first place been done. Since they would be 1, ofc alliance would play blue eyed helves.

If the problem of a Blood elf to be seen a High Elf is the factors: Faction, name, values, practices. If this was forgiven and acceptable, they could be just simply High elves again. Not all practicing the same thing or same values but learn how to respect those who have suffered in legion's hand and fel exposure and had a connection with the sunwell. They would respect, they would be able to co-exist, and be a single race fully capable of recognizing that some have been through some bad stuff and they acted bad, and redeem themselves. And be who they should have always be: Just one and only = High elves.

If a practice, independent from the culture, is acceptable, there's no barriers. No separated names.

Let's say, we humans, break a leg, we are considered "different", we can't do other stuff as others, we can't run. That's considered a faulty.

Some can look at them as debilitated, and different. And don't accept them. I feel that's how blood elves are seen by high elves. Because they are different and went through different experiences than high elves, and other paths, then this conflict started and they couldn't stand more each other.

This can easily be broken, if they have both a change of heart, stop the hate, look at them as a victim of bad situations that happened and where most of them had no control over. They need to embrace their race as one. And not separate each other, they can keep having their values, because overall, they end up having the same culture, just events changed some values (a lot of politic views and logistics, one of them even blood elves joining the horde.)

Following this, 90% of the surviving high elves changed their name to "blood elves" or sin'dorei (children of the blood in Thalassian) in remembrance of their fallen brethren, and no longer consider themselves high elven.

They "no longer want to be considered high elves".

And high elves don't want to be considered "Blood elves".

So you see, it fails the argument when people say they are High Elves.

As long as they keep this division and unforgiveness between, they cannot be the same race, because they don't want to be.

Therefore, they should not have blue eyes-green eyes, without a union.

And i think alliance and horde, could start by making High elves again, neutral and playable for both factions, giving the first step to show, sometimes you can overcome your suffering and forgive. Because to be realistic, it didn't take them anywhere.

And void elves appearing now, showed what they can be more if they are together.

Forgetting other races, High elves need a better role, they have been for years so vanished.

And i want High elves to not hate the horde. Actually, i wish the Horde didn't even hate themselves, for old characters that made the Horde be so dysfunctional.

The horde needs "to endure", as Saurfang would say.

Anyway, i think this is it for the day. Thank you for the discussion and good night!

[Paraka]

The problem here is that Blizzard created the VE while at the same time "laughing at our faces", so to speak, since the VEs share the same problems that they claimed HEs have, with "minuscule population" being the most blatant of those issues. Void elves literally came from a single group of researchers.

And then we have the "void elves fit the story better" excuse, which, insofar as how 8.3 has been presented and how the expansion's lore has expanded, has been shown to be nothing but a load of bull since void elves have basically played no essential part whatsoever in the story. They haven't been shown to bring nothing of value that couldn't be done by the others. The 8.3 patch, the "void content", which would have been their moment to shine... so far there's not a single mention other than possible future of them betraying the Alliance.

Well, regardless if you feel they "laughed in your face" or not, the answer is still their answer. And with the latter example of the fact they used the Blood Elves to justify making them, and used them as a base, would imply that as of right now Blizzard has, by no intents, no plans to revisit the High Elves as a whole. They see them as a dwindling race currently to a point they borrow their old brethren to make them. Then lowkey say more and more High Elves are being recruited to the cause as well in their starting zones.

The problems you say VE being a "crack team" that Blizzard mentions poses the same problems as the High Elves currently do has one large glaring flaw in it; The fact it's a race you can recruit to grow your ranks. Literally the only ones that can do this are the other Elves, both Blood and High, to submit to the Void culture. You simply cannot recruit a Night Elf to become a High Elf. So every new player is excused as a "recruit" in the way Blizzard made their story. Whether you like it or not, it is actively reflected as such.

As for "fitting the story better," honestly, I do not know why you're placing me in that camp as I have said nothing about their presence in BfA outside their initiations. Namely cause, well, there isn't really anything. So probably not the best to categorize that with me.

[Ielenia]

The problems you say VE being a "crack team" that Blizzard mentions poses the same problems as the High Elves currently do has one large glaring flaw in it; The fact it's a race you can recruit to grow your ranks.

That's not really as big a problem you claim it is. Blizzard could have blood elves be unhappy with Lor'Themar's leadership and the Horde in general and decide to leave. And this isn't headcanon, either. There is a group of elves in Silvermoon who are unhappy with the situation and are speaking out against Lor'themar. Or, at least, there used to be one. I haven't been to Silvermoon in ages.

On top of that, Blizzard could simply create a new community of high elves in a new continent in a new expansion, just like they created a whole community of tauren.

[Ignaz]

If this isn't pedantic, I don't know what is, but here's a link to the abstract of a medical study discussing some minor physiological differences between twins. Do I know what they're talking about? Hell no. Does it matter? Of course not.

The article is about the incidence of hypertension (high blood pressure levels) in man, and how the SGK1 gene influences the regulation of blood pressure. These are the conclusions they reached:
''These data, coupled with our earlier observations linking the insulin-like growth factor-1 gene locus to blood pressure lead us to conclude that the SGK1 gene is relevant to blood pressure regulation and probably to hypertension in man.''

sorry if I sound pedantic, but if you are going to use a reference to validate your point, you should at least understand what it is. The article has nothing to do with the physiological differences between twins. Scientists used them because of their special status as homozygotes twins and heterosigotes twins (shared).
That same mistake happened with the person who said that both HE and BE were physiologically the same. This is an irrelevant point since the physiological principles of each ''mortal race'' were never established.

What they're referring to is a Warcraft race. It's from an article in the Warcraft Encyclopedia about the "Mortal Races." Read through some of the articles if you like. This was my introduction to the blood elves when I started the game, and therefore the foundation of my understanding of the blood elves in general. The message is very clear - the line between blood elf and high elf is very thin, and it is neither cultural nor physical. The difference is mana tap, which is gone now that the Sunwell is restored. So what is left? It's literally just politics.

That article is now 13 years old, and that's the story that got me interested in the game in the first place. If you tell me a story like "They were different groups all along," I'm not going to support your idea because that's not the story of the Blood Elves that I've been told all this time. There are plenty of people who don't care about the story, but the story of Kael'thas and the Blood Elves is one of the most popular story lines in the franchise and Blood Elves are the single most popular race in the game, so I trust that Blizzard isn't going to retcon the core of their identity.

As you said, 13 years have passed since the publication of that article and (by antecedent) certain details can be changed to be able to adjust to a new plot:
Do you remember back on WC3 when we were told that the Helm of Domination was forged by nathrezims? guess what, now it was stolen by nathrezims from the shadowlands.
Do you remember back in vanilla when HE were just a recolor of NE? guess what, now they have their own model. (That change of model was never explained in lore)

From my perspective, as a player, what conclusions can I take from this story?:

1)after Arthas annihilated 90% of HE, 10% survived and were led by Kael'Thas who; under Illidan's influence, mark a divisive point in the history of his people.
2)A dictatorship was established in Silvermoon in which; as a HE, if you did not follow the vampiric practices of Kael'thas you would be exiled from your lands, which resulted in the exile of 1% of that population. This 1% returned to the name of HE while the remaining 9% adopted the name of BE.
(up to this point only a political difference has been established between both groups)
3) From this moment, BE begin to drain arcane energy, using vampiric magic (arcane/fel) (which was taught by Illidan), they even took burning crystals (full of fel energy) to experiment with them, reestablish Silvermoon and drain their energy, this caused a series of phenotypic mutations in BE
(it is here that the first phenotypic change is established)
4) When the sunwell was restored, the corruption created by fel magic in BE's bodies was eliminated (not the mutations)
5) Meanwhile HE didn't change.

You can clearly see the political and phenotypic differences.
The point of physiology remains irrelevant, since the physiological differences between HE / BE and the other races were never explained to us, nor any in-game physiological principle.

[Manariel]

Regardless of what name you use to describe them, they're the same race. That's the point.

But they are not the same Nation or culture anymore. That's what should matter to be playable. Not how they look, when VE are already discount TBC Blood Elves. 8.3 makes clear that any future involvement of them will revolve around the "mad with power" archetype usually used by BE enemies, with just the addition "But the whispers told me!"

Regarding the Zandalari :









Explain to me the lore reason for those changes. Oh, and the changes they already had in MoP also.

[protip]

The article is about the incidence of hypertension (high blood pressure levels) in man, and how the SGK1 gene influences the regulation of blood pressure. These are the conclusions they reached:
''These data, coupled with our earlier observations linking the insulin-like growth factor-1 gene locus to blood pressure lead us to conclude that the SGK1 gene is relevant to blood pressure regulation and probably to hypertension in man.''

sorry if I sound pedantic, but if you are going to use a reference to validate your point, you should at least understand what it is. The article has nothing to do with the physiological differences between twins. Scientists used them because of their special status as homozygotes twins and heterosigotes twins (shared).
That same mistake happened with the person who said that both HE and BE were physiologically the same. This is an irrelevant point since the physiological principles of each ''mortal race'' were never established.

I'm going to be honest, I didn't even bother reading the abstract because the title alone proves my point:

"Twin studies in the analysis of minor physiological differences between individuals."

That's all there is. The fact that they are described as physiologically the same race implies that there are physiological differences between races, and that high elves and blood elves are less different than that. The article also says that the only difference between high elves and blood elves is mana tap and small changes in behavior, not large scale physical differences like those of allied races.

As you said, 13 years have passed since the publication of that article and (by antecedent) certain details can be changed to be able to adjust to a new plot:
Do you remember back on WC3 when we were told that the Helm of Domination was forged by nathrezims? guess what, now it was stolen by nathrezims from the shadowlands.
Do you remember back in vanilla when HE were just a recolor of NE? guess what, now they have their own model. (That change of model was never explained in lore

That difference was explained before the models. The Highborne, even in Zin Azshari were separated due to talent, wealth, and power, for thousands of years. Due to "selective breeding combined with greater access to the Well of Eternity" the Highborne gained superior magical talents, and following their exile "they slowly changed in form, diminishing in size and losing their original purple skin to a pinkish hue." There was a lore basis for the change in model, and the Highborne were not playable or even allied with any playable faction up to that point.

The blood elves, on the other hand, are directly related to the high elf story in the sense that they only think and feel differently, according to the story they were introduced with. Feel free to provide some sources that contradict the information in this article, but all I've seen so far is headcanon about changes after the political divide that were not present when the blood elf model was introduced. This makes any separation between blood elf and high elf models an inaccurate representation of the lore or a retcon.

From my perspective, as a player, what conclusions can I take from this story?:

1)after Arthas annihilated 90% of HE, 10% survived and were led by Kael'Thas who; under Illidan's influence, mark a divisive point in the history of his people.
2)A dictatorship was established in Silvermoon in which; as a HE, if you did not follow the vampiric practices of Kael'thas you would be exiled from your lands, which resulted in the exile of 1% of that population. This 1% returned to the name of HE while the remaining 9% adopted the name of BE.
(up to this point only a political difference has been established between both groups)
3) From this moment, BE begin to drain arcane energy, using vampiric magic (arcane/fel) (which was taught by Illidan), they even took burning crystals (full of fel energy) to experiment with them, reestablish Silvermoon and drain their energy, this caused a series of phenotypic mutations in BE
(it is here that the first phenotypic change is established)
4) When the sunwell was restored, the corruption created by fel magic in BE's bodies was eliminated (not the mutations)
5) Meanwhile HE didn't change.

You can clearly see the political and phenotypic differences.
The point of physiology remains irrelevant, since the physiological differences between HE / BE and the other races were never explained to us, nor any in-game physiological principle.

You keep saying this, and it is false. Not all Blood Elves were corrupted in the first place, it was possible to leave Silvermoon, and the playable Blood Elves are directly said to have not been different from high elves in any physical way at the time they became playable, and they have not been retconned into anything else. Your argument here is completely off base.

[Shakana]

Blizz really need to put their foot down on this and do one of 2 things, either have Alleria try talking the High elves into becoming purple goo elves which goes against what they believe in or have Alleria force the void upon them which disgusts them enough to return home to Silvermoon and rebrand all High elves Blood elves rejoining their brethren because lets face it with Void Elves in the Alliance you are NOT going to get another identical elf model.

Void elves already have some high elves. She spoke with them and a group of exiled blood elves too. Since she couldn't get the horde blood elves to come back to alliance. High elves returning to silvermoon is what I have been suggesting.

[Ignaz]

I'm going to be honest, I didn't even bother reading the abstract because the title alone proves my point:

"Twin studies in the analysis of minor physiological differences between individuals."

That's all there is. The fact that they are described as physiologically the same race implies that there are physiological differences between races, and that high elves and blood elves are less different than that.

1)The title has nothing to do with the article

the title alone proves my point

2)The title is wrong. which minor physiological differences?
3)In real life there are those differences, in wow we don't know that. All ''mortal races'' are humanoid, and some among them can procreate hybrids. Again, the physiological principles in the game have never been established.

The article also says that the only difference between high elves and blood elves is mana tap and small changes in behavior, not large scale physical differences like those of allied races.

This proves something of my point, this, plus the features that I mentioned earlier; the phenotypic characteristics that we as players can see (pale skin and hair, blue eyes, behavior, mana tap magic tolerance, etc.)

That difference was explained before the models. The Highborne, even in Zin Azshari were separated due to talent, wealth, and power, for thousands of years. Due to "selective breeding combined with greater access to the Well of Eternity" the Highborne gained superior magical talents, and following their exile "they slowly changed in form, diminishing in size and losing their original purple skin to a pinkish hue." There was a lore basis for the change in model, and the Highborne were not playable or even allied with any playable faction up to that point.

The blood elves, on the other hand, are directly related to the high elf story in the sense that they only think and feel differently, according to the story they were introduced with. Feel free to provide some sources that contradict the information in this article, but all I've seen so far is headcanon about changes after the political divide that were not present when the blood elf model was introduced. This makes any separation between blood elf and high elf models an inaccurate representation of the lore or a retcon.

I think I don't explain myself properly. I mean this model change:
from this:


to this:

You keep saying this, and it is false. Not all Blood Elves were corrupted in the first place, it was possible to leave Silvermoon, and the playable Blood Elves are directly said to have not been different from high elves in any physical way at the time they became playable, and they have not been retconned into anything else. Your argument here is completely off base.

I think you skipped the part of ''From my perspective, as a player ''. I didn't say it to create more lore on my own, i say it so that you understand that what we see matters as much as what they tell you is lore/canon in an article. Even more if what they tell you is lore/canon is subject of change at convenience.

[Broflake]

Then you must be super offended to see so many blood elves (void elves) as an allied race of the alliance

Not really, the changes made were enough to ensure enough of a distinction. You know...
Tentacles, being purple, rather large differences.
Otherwise, your suggestion would be the same as saying Alliance players should be offended by blood elves because they're just humans with pointy ears.

And VE, who are Blood Elves, steeped in their lore, with their TBC characterization almost down to a "t" aren't ?

High Elevs looks similar now, yes. But they are far more distinct from the BE than the VE are.

The HE look the EXACT, SAME, as BE. How are they more distinct?
There is literally no difference both in terms of intentional design, and in lore.
VE are certainly more distinct Manariel. Suggesting otherwise is being dishonest.

From my perspective, as a player, what conclusions can I take from this story?

Your perspective as a player does not matter.
It is the statements made by the writer that does matter.
If the writer states "BE and HE are the same and have no differences", then your perspective on perceived differences don't matter.

[Katchii]

But they are not the same Nation or culture anymore. That's what should matter to be playable. Not how they look, when VE are already discount TBC Blood Elves. 8.3 makes clear that any future involvement of them will revolve around the "mad with power" archetype usually used by BE enemies, with just the addition "But the whispers told me!"

Regarding the Zandalari :

[SNIP]

Explain to me the lore reason for those changes. Oh, and the changes they already had in MoP also.

I never argued otherwise. My argument is for those who say they're different races; they're not. I wouldn't even say they're different cultures, personally, because theyve only been separated for ~12-15 years. That's not really enough time to develop a completely different, independent culture, traditions, etc.. though I'm sure some things have changed, but not to the point where you couldn't tell that the Alliance aligned High Elves came from Quel'thalas. They're a separate group of the same elves who have a different political alignment.

As to the Zandalari, I have no idea...I can't tell you why they do certain things in game the way they do, or if those changes had any lore implications. Can you tell me why Sylvanas just looked like an emo Night Elf until her new model was created? Why Garrosh looked just like any other brown orc from Outland until his new model?

[protip]

1)The title has nothing to do with the article

2)The title is wrong. which minor physiological differences?
3)In real life there are those differences, in wow we don't know that. All ''mortal races'' are humanoid, and some among them can procreate hybrids. Again, the physiological principles in the game have never been established.

Do you often tell doctors and the compilers of dictionaries that they are wrong? Because that's what you're doing here. Physiology can be used to describe a much higher level of specificity than you are arguing, and you have provided no sources for your personal definition of the word, while I have provided 1) a dictionary definition of the word physiology, 2) a medical study referring to differences in physiology at a much more precise level than required, and 3) the game's developer's explicit declaration that blood elves and high elves are the same race.

This proves something of my point, this, plus the features that I mentioned earlier; the phenotypic characteristics that we as players can see (pale skin and hair, blue eyes, behavior, mana tap magic tolerance, etc.)

So, you're arguing that because they sometimes appear different in game, that they should retcon the lore to make that difference canon? That will be controversial with anyone who cares about the lore, and certainly players like me who made blood elves during the time between November 2006 and the release of Cataclysm, when the Warcraft Encyclopedia was removed from worldofwarcraft.com. This lore was two clicks away from the WoW homepage for the four years that WoW had the highest number of players. You're welcome to your opinion, but you should understand the context of what you're asking for. It is a major departure from important lore that a lot of people have been exposed to.

I think I don't explain myself properly. I mean this model change:
from this:
[IMG]https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/4/40/Captain_Thalo%27thas_Brightsun.jpg?version=481bbd229ab2e88c2e82a173af889c54[IMG]
[IMG]https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/3/3a/Braelyn_Firehand_original.jpg[IMG]
to this:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/MMPguJk.jpg/IMG]

There isn't much pressure to maintain the exact appearance of races that aren't playable. Ogres went through a couple of overhauls, and no one said much about it, likewise, those models you linked are no longer representative of the high elves. On the other hand, the very identity of the blood elves is based on their relationship to the high elves. Everything that a high elf was up until the last time a high elf used mana tap is a part of blood elf identity.

I think you skipped the part of ''From my perspective, as a player ''. I didn't say it to create more lore on my own, i say it so that you understand that what we see matters as much as what they tell you is lore/canon in an article. Even more if what they tell you is lore/canon is subject of change at convenience.

Some lore is subject to change, sure, but usually it's just expanded on, and they're very careful about changing existing player characters because those are the decisions that affect existing players the most. Imagine the effect of telling blood elf roleplayers that their characters were actually fel corrupted all along, for example. It's not just disruptive, it's a retroactive transformation of their character's identity. Sure, we all have our different perspectives, but blood elves are the most popular existing race in the game, so you're asking for a massive group of players to sacrifice the identity of their characters for an allied race (or whatever) that has almost exactly the same concept that they would be giving up. I can't possibly see that as a good decision. Not for myself, not for the playerbase as a whole, and not for Blizzard.

[Aldo Hawk]

Some lore is subject to change, sure, but usually it's just expanded on, and they're very careful about changing existing player characters because those are the decisions that affect existing players the most. Imagine the effect of telling blood elf roleplayers that their characters were actually fel corrupted all along, for example. It's not just disruptive, it's a retroactive transformation of their character's identity. Sure, we all have our different perspectives, but blood elves are the most popular existing race in the game, so you're asking for a massive group of players to sacrifice the identity of their characters for an allied race (or whatever) that has almost exactly the same concept that they would be giving up. I can't possibly see that as a good decision. Not for myself, not for the playerbase as a whole, and not for Blizzard.

How the hell do you explain the green eyes then?

THAT, is -already- part of the -current- lore of the Blood elves.

That CANNOT be a retcon, because it -IS- the way things have been all the time.

My Blood elf has taken fel corruption, your Blood elf has taken fel corruption, every Blood elf has taken fel corruption, one way or the other.

High elves, on the other hand, were not in Silvermoon by the time the Blood elves started using fel all around the city.

[Timester]

How the hell do you explain the green eyes then?

THAT, is -already- part of the -current- lore of the Blood elves.

That CANNOT be a retcon, because it -IS- the way things have been all the time.

My Blood elf has taken fel corruption, your Blood elf has taken fel corruption, every Blood elf has taken fel corruption, one way or the other.

High elves, on the other hand, were not in Silvermoon by the time the Blood elves started using fel all around the city.

Except, it was stated by the devs, several times, the corruption (mainly the eyes) is slowly being reverted due the energies of the Sunwell.

"Lady Liadrin, leader of the Blood Knights, is shown to have golden eyes in her Hearthstone hero artwork. Some blood elves have lost their fel corruption and gained golden eyes due the cleansing of the Sunwell.[39]

In classic World of Warcraft, blood elves had normal white eyes with pupils. The Sunwell Trilogy also depicted them with this appearance. The Priest unit in The Frozen Throne had glowing green-eyed models, while before the expansion, in Reign of Chaos, it had glowing blue eyes.
Ultimately, it is a matter of time before the fel-power induced green glint reverts back to the blood elves' regular high elven eyes. This process, however, may take a fairly long time.[24]"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_elf

[Obelisk Kai]

If all you mean to say here is "who cares" then frankly people requesting the High Elves can do the same thing. Don't need to dress it up with actual evidence of their presence - something that other races (Ogres) barely even have or (Drogbar) are non-existant.

Again, nobody cares because the high elf request alone crosses several red lines that Blizzard keeps laying out, that the race is already playable, that the race is playable on the other faction, and that making that race available to the Alliance compromises their red lines on faction diversity. There is no point in citing Ogres or Drogbar or any other race because no other race has the same issue, that they are already playable on the other faction.

Also saying, "nobody outside the Helf community cares about that" is patently false as there have been people who say they don't give a fuck about High Elves but feel it's alright that Alliance gets them

Which is what, some other forum goers? You are aware of how vanishingly small a percentage of the player base people who participate in the forums actually are, right? The vast majority of players aren't even aware this debate exists, let alone taken a side on it.

Uh, of course there is more presence being put to Void Elves. There was more presence being put to every Allied Race in BfA because Allied Races are a BfA feature. If it wasn't Void Elves, it would've been whatever else took their Allied Race spot. This isn't a strong argument at all.

It would be like pointing out the importance of Demon Hunters to the story of the Legion expansion. Thanks Captain Obvious.

But it WAS Void Elves and not a hypothetical alternative. And as such, Void Elves were and are being developed as the High Elves of the Alliance.

The majority of the playerbase doesn't like Mechagnomes and thinks there trash, they still became an Allied Race. What we can tell here is that a majority of the playerbase liking something is not required for it to become an Allied Race.

High Elf exiles did not become an allied race despite a multi year campaign in support of their inclusion. Mechagnomes did despite having a vastly smaller presence in regards to feedback. The logical conclusion here then is that the feedback of the pro high elf community was disregarded because Blizzard valued it's red lines more.

The "factions being distinct" design goal that you're trying to herald here already became defunct when Void Elves came to the Alliance. Thus giving Alliance the exact same Thalassian model - not even a modified one like the Nightborne.

Except they still cited faction diversity as the reason High Elves were not given to the Alliance. Were Void Elves seen as being a duplicate, the debate would have ended and the pro High Elf side would be crowing it's victory. You cannot on the one hand argue that faction distinctiveness was eliminated by Void Elves and on the other hand argue the Alliance still needs playable High Elves. That is pure doublethink. Void Elves are a variant, not a duplicate of a high elf. As a variant, there is a measure of differentiation between them and the Blood/High Elves which the pro high elf community is well aware of, as they have spent a considerable amount of time arguing why Void Elves are not what they wanted.

So please, pick an approach. If the Void Elves destroyed faction distinctiveness, congratulations, the Alliance has the high elves they wanted and this topic can end.
If Void Elves are not identical to high elves, then the faction barrier was preserved and Blizzard kept to their red lines, something you will have to make peace with eventually.

And Blizzard has "publicly ruled out" things like transmog before deciding it probably is a good idea and implementing it, and w/e else they first denied. There's someone on MMO-C here that has their signature filled of things that Blizzard said they'd never do and then later implemented. And besides that, High Elves weren't "publicly ruled out" again you are pushing the narrative that this potential conversation thread with the developers are done and decided and no further changes will come. We have not received that kind of answer, despite what you may think. It is not the same as how Pathfinder stays and the request to have flying immediately is received with a blunt, "no".

If you want to speak about "common sense" the common sense answer that was given meant don't expect to see High Elves as an Allied Race for BfA or anytime soon. That's actually what was said for a question that was being asked almost every Q&A and ofc they had to provide an answer cuz it kept popping up. Lore even states right before it was a popular question.

That list that player has of things Blizzard changed their minds on hasn't been updated to include High Elves now has it? In fact, their position on high elves has remained remarkably stable across fifteen years if we go all the way back to that first Caydiem blue post back in September 2005. In fact, not only has Blizzard NOT reversed them on high elves, they've time and again gone out of their way to double down on their 'No', haven't they? Even at Blizzcon they throttled the talk of the summer, that the factions were weakening, quite viciously. Interview after interview stomped the idea that Alliance and Horde were anything other than a pillar of the franchise. And a component of that pillar is racial diversity of the membership, which is the rationale given for why high elves weren't added and void elves were added in their stead.

I find appealing to 'all the times they seemingly changed their mind on something' ferociously lazy reasoning. It implies all you have to do is wait and they'll change their mind, as if such a shift is inevitable in the fullness of time. It means you never have to actually engage with the case you presented and ask why it hasn't happened? What is stopping it? Just because they changed their mind on a few things doesn't mean they will change their mind on everything. And on this particular topic they've been solid for a decade and a half.

As for it being a popular question, well, you answered that yourself I believe.

What we can tell here is that a majority of the playerbase liking something is not required for it to become an Allied Race

The very reasonable interpretation being they will try and meet a reasonable request, but an unreasonable request will be resisted no matter how popular the demand seems to be. A request that violates a pillar of the game, the faction wall, is unreasonable.

See, you can't even admit you were way off the mark. You somehow must've combined the answer from the previous question and added it to the VE one.

A second is not "far longer" as you put it. If you don't want to admit something small that's ok. I'll take this as a win.

I regard the entire answer as flimsy and unworthy of the level of attention you've given to it. He said skins for Void Elves was possible, so as far as we know, it's possible. But they are not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination and once upon a time, when Ion mentioned High Elves as a potential subrace in an interivew, they became possible too.

We all know how that turned out.

But Night Elf fans don't get to play Nightborne on their faction??? Your response here shows complete bias, the developers knew that both sides wanted the Nightborne and they are essentially Night Elven ancestry and still gave that over to Horde. Why should people who are Night Elf fans (like me) have to "respect that" when the same respect wasn't given to our chosen race???

Because Nightborne were part of a quid pro quo to get a High Elf variant in the Alliance with the Void Elves. Those pro High Elfers who argued the case for High Elves prior to yourself always accepted the implicit bargain, that access to a Horde race for the Alliance was paired with the Horde getting access to an Alliance race. They suggested leper gnomes or dark iron dwarves. In the end, it turned out to be Alliance access to a variant of a Horde race in exchange for Horde access to a variant of an Alliance race.

This is where your own argument destroys itself. Nightborne ARE Night Elven ancestry, just like High Elves ARE Blood Elven ancestry. Yet it appears you and others are perfectly fine to have not respected those Night Elf players that wanted Nightborne yet at the same time try to admonish others for wanting High Elves? A race that actually still appears within the Alliance.

Nightborne are a variant of Night Elves, with a unique aesthetic and theme. The Alliance was compensated in the lost of a monopoly on the Night Elf race with access to Void Elves. And high elves are not the equivalent of Nightborne. Void Elves are. Horde players cannot play Void Elves, just as Night Elf fans cannot play Nightborne. You seem to be inventing a grievance whereas the actual thing was handled fairly equitably.

This is why the above argument makes no sense. If it's something that actually mattered then Blizzard wouldn't have put the Nightborne on the Horde in the first place. Frankly what can be taken away from it is that Blizzard will do whatever Blizzard wants to do at the time they're doing it and will make up any reason for doing so.

TNightborne already kills this argument.

Again, Nightborne kill this argument. You got Horde Night Elves. Talk about different stance/etc all you want, it's the same shit people suggest for getting High Elves on Alliance. It's just clear Blizzard doesn't have some set way they deal with each Allied Race addition because if they did we would not have so many inconsistencies being pointed out about certain Allied Races over others (like how people say LF Draenei and HM Tauren are a waste-of-a-slot and could've just been customization options).

Again, if Nightborne are identical to Night Elves or Void Elves are identical to High Elves, then the Alliance has High Elves and you won.
If Nightborne are different from Night Elves, or Void Elves are different from High Elves, then they are distinct and the faction wall remains firm.

You cannot argue on the one hand they are identical with each other whilst on other hand complain about them for not being what you wanted. Pick one.

Personally it is clear to me, and in fact to everyone, that they are in fact distinct and that anyone who argues they are the same is doing so with an agenda.

This is why so many in the media community (Youtubers/Wowhead/RedShirtGuy) etc called bullshit on Blizzard's High Elf Q&A response. They knew Blizzard was just talking out their ass. Just as many of those same media community people are calling them out now for how they're taking Sylvanas's story.

But it works in your favor and anyone who's stance is to kill the High Elf request, so it's not surprising to see you utilize it as if Blizzard is 100% true and correct with how they handle this subject.

It is 100% true and correct. Blood Elves are High Elves. High Elves are playable. A High Elf variant has been provided to the Alliance that does not undermine the faction distinctiveness of the Horde. All consistent with the design pillar that the faction divide is integral to the game.