Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Zenlin]

I you mean Jack Sunsparrow...

Point taken on look changes, but I disagree that the Silver Covenant has an established look. That's why Blizz hasn't used them as an Allied Race yet. They have no look at all. They dress kinda blue? Even if the High Elves were never added as playable, the faction/NPCs need an overhaul because they have no look or design direction. Most of their outfits seem random with only the tabard to tie them together.

It would be no big deal to just switch the NPCs to have the new hair and warpaint. And give them new outfits. When the Silver Covenant showed up in Dalaran with new outfits, we didn't go, "Who be dis?" When major characters get new models, it's no problem. Just make the switch. If they were turning red with horns, I could understand confusion, but giving them some style would be just fine.

Now this I could agree with it. Though I do not think High Elves should be added as an allied race, I still think it wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of an update, especially if Blizz plans on keeping them around in the lore. More distinction and uniqueness is never a bad thing.

[vertigo12]

Ugh we are sitll going on with this? Alliance have void elves now due to them begging for High elves, so you wont be getting high elves anymore unless they are Drasticly Different like mutated or something but then people will ask for a non mutated high elf im sure, people will always be asking for high elves till the end of time

Azerite empowered/Addicted Elves or probably naga who were High Elves got cured of Naga-ism and become Elves once more.

[Powerogue]

When major characters get new models, it's no problem.

A fair point.

[Chemical Ellis]

@Traycor, if you're listening, I really don't think you should lead with that unicorn armour. The customization, mounts, and ranger heritage armour can all be backed up by art and assets from WC2, Chronicle, WoW, but that funky unicorn head outfit just completely comes out of left field, and I think it hurts the credibility of the thread just a smidgen. You want to create something unique enough to be instantly distinguishable from Belves, seated in lore, and palatable to the community at large, and while the effort is very much admirable, I'm not sure it succeeds on those last two counts.

Note, I'm not discounting it completely, just it might not be best for that to be the first things folks see when they open this thread.

[Traycor]

@Traycor, if you're listening, I really don't think you should lead with that unicorn armour. The customization, mounts, and ranger heritage armour can all be backed up by art and assets from WC2, Chronicle, WoW, but that funky unicorn head outfit just completely comes out of left field, and I think it hurts the credibility of the thread just a smidgen. You want to create something unique enough to be instantly distinguishable from Belves, seated in lore, and palatable to the community at large, and while the effort is very much admirable, I'm not sure it succeeds on those last two counts.

Note, I'm not discounting it completely, just it might not be best for that to be the first things folks see when they open this thread.

You're right. While I do think it's important to show there's more than one way to skin a cat, that design is certainly a departure. I'll move it further down in the post. Here's a more subtle design to go along with it.

[Faerillis]

Now this I could agree with it. Though I do not think High Elves should be added as an allied race, I still think it wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of an update, especially if Blizz plans on keeping them around in the lore. More distinction and uniqueness is never a bad thing.

So I think Blizzard has plans to use the hinted at death of Vereesa during the Burning of Teldrassil to have the entirety of the remaining High Elves join the Void Elves and thus get rid of the need to update them in anyway. For the sake of the thread though this chain of events could also be used to introduce the new look for the High Elves, introduce someone to take over the faction when she dies and give an obvious introduction to the idea of them as a dynamic and separate group.

[Cosmic Janitor]

So I think Blizzard has plans to use the hinted at death of Vereesa during the Burning of Teldrassil to have the entirety of the remaining High Elves join the Void Elves and thus get rid of the need to update them in anyway. For the sake of the thread though this chain of events could also be used to introduce the new look for the High Elves, introduce someone to take over the faction when she dies and give an obvious introduction to the idea of them as a dynamic and separate group.

Why would they join the void elves? They have been allied to the alliance and dalaran for ages now and made a point of not falling to corruption. Them becoming void elves makes no sense.

[KyrtF]

The issue with that being though, Pandaren were able to be both factions from the start, they didn't start separated. There is a big distinction there. Let's say Blizzard finagled a way to work Draenei lore into the Horde format, they then decided they wanted to give them to the Horde as a Allied race.

You mean, just like Blizzard did with Night Elfs and the Nightborne?

I have a sneaking suspicion a very large group of people would be very upset. Yes I understand High Elves have been present in Alliance lore for a long time, but you get the point I'm trying to make.

Yes - and it's that type of misconception I disagree with. I've never cared if the Alliance got High Elfs. Why should I? The only thing I wanted was for the model to be kept unique. That is the consequence of Blizzard allowing the Alliance to keep High Elfs since Crusade. It mean that the High Elfs were already part of the Alliance and always would be. A decision only reinforced by the Silver Covenant and the Isle of Thunder and so on.

The High Elf lore was always part of the Alliance. The High Elf architecture was always part of the Alliance. The High Elf model was always part of the Alliance. The High Elf culture and society and story was always part of the Alliance

But they weren't playable.

Also don't forget, Lightforged and Void Elves may be few, but they're incredibly skilled and talented. So though there may not be many, every single one of then offers something to the cause.

What they offer is that they are cheap. They are quick. They are simple. Compared to the work Blizzard put in on Horde races, they are almost insulting. Only the Highmountain Tauren shows the same (relative) lack of care and work. Yes - the Nightborne benefitted from the work on Suramar done in Legion...but there is no reason the entire faction had to go Horde, no reason to give us that city. Yes - the Zandalari benefitted from the work that needs to go into the faction capitals, but again, Blizzard didn't need to make the Zandalari an Allied Race. Let alone one with Dino Druids. Blizzard didn't need to give the Horde straight backed Orcs - but it did. Pure fan service.

I'm excited to be Horde. I'm more excited about BfA than I have been about WoW for a long time. I might even give one of those new races a try. But let's not pretend that the Alliance aren't getting shafted here...because, so far, they are. Yes...we can argue there are reasons for that. We can argue that the Horde are simply getting developed first. And we'd be right. But I have been in this position before, when it was the Horde players who felt they were getting shafted...and honestly, that feeling doesn't go away because the faction that feels like it is getting shafted this early in the development process usually seems to end up getting shafted in the actual game during live.

But High Elves, though they are inherently skilled in certain ways just like Blood Elves, are also very few and not all have special assets they can bring to the table, which makes the roster even smaller.

And yet, Blizzard gave us Void Elfs. Do you seriously think there are more Void Elfs than there are High Elfs? That is not a credible psoiton to take. If there are enough Void Elfs, there are enough High Elfs.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from your passion, I understand fully where you're coming from, I just hope you understand where players who are opposed are coming from as well.

Those players are wrong. They don't want the Alliance to get High Elfs because they don't want the Alliance to get High Elfs and they are willing to use whatever excuse, no matter how flimsy or pigheaded or stubborn to try and justify that stance. The truth is that, with Allied races, there is now NO reason not to give the Alliance the High Elfs it wants, and doing so is the one and only way this debate will stop. We cannot even say the Allaicne simply wanted to make a grab for the pretty model because they Alliance now has the model and they still want High Elfs.

And right now, with Void Elfs and Allied races, Blizzard appears awfully close to denying the Alliance High Elfs simply out of pure spite.

"Hey look - we'll give the Horde everything they've asked for for 15 years. We'll even give them two of the best looking cities in the game. And look DINO DRUIDS!!!! Straight Back Orcs!!! Straight Back Trolls!!! All the Orc Clans are yours to choose from!!! Give the Alliance High Elfs? Are you crazy?!!!"

Blizzard likely has reasons for its decision, which will make sense to it if no one else, and hopefully the Q&A will expand on those. But right now it does risk being seen as biased

Personally, if I were to offer an opinion....I'd offer up thin and fat human as body types akin to the straight back Orcs, maybe even do the same with Worgen with toggles between Cataclysm Alpha models and Night Elf Worgen, give Vulpera to the Alliance as their next Allied Race (too cute for my taste) and add in the High Elfs as an Allied race, with say - Grimtotem Tauren being added to the Horde as a simple recolor.

I'd suggest the High Elfs get a simple reworking akin to the one I posited above so they don't become Alliance Blood Elfs, but I also think such a reworking would, for the most part, be optional.

This would all give the Alliance something, though I don't think there's much chance of anything topping the Zandalari as an Allied Race. It's worth more than the rest put together

[Traycor]

It feels more like the Silver Covenant I think. It's kinda funny, this is more the direction I might have gone with before seeing your thread, but your mockups convinced me that the high elves could still have their Warcraft II nature/ranger feel without stepping on the night elves or Wildhammer. Also, I almost did that unicorn headband thing myself, as a shout out to Final Fantasy summoners. I think it can work, but I was afraid of it looking like I was laying the unicorn thing on a bit too thick. I guess I should worry less.

I'm intentionally pushing a few design choices into the extreme (see Jack Sunsparrow) because safe choices haven't gotten the job done in the past. A silly idea can always be discarded, but that's how you brainstorm and find new things. That being said, I used your excellent design to take a crack at some WC2 style armor. This time I tried to push the Ranger angle strongly.

[KyrtF]

UPDATE: Wonderful heritage armor design by Jokubas! This is what a Quel'dorei should look like!


UPDATE: These are "Bird Style" hairdos that fit the one Blood Elf hairstyle of this type we have in game. These are less "out there" than the 80's hair and might fit better with the style of the game.



Post YOUR design ideas! So far, the biggest roadblock to adding High Elves as an allied race seems to be their lack of distinction from Blood elves. This is a thread for brainstorming design options that could set them apart. I looked back at the Warcraft II concepts and in game characters, and here is what I came up with.



High Elves are, by their nature, fundamentalists/traditionalists. These older designs highlight the survivalist, nomadic lifestyle the Silver Covenant has been forced to adopt. Blood Elves are pampered, high society types that rely heavily on magic. By contrast, the High Elves would seem more "primitive" or back to basics. Plus, all these design changes fit right in with established lore, as seen in the examples.

Heritage Armor: They could have something with a Ranger feel, as all elves back in the WC2 era were designed to look like rangers no matter what their class was (all franchises were this way). Play up their paramilitary feel. Use a head piece that does not obstruct the hair/war paint such as a headband, tiara, or thrown-back hood.

Should Quel'Dorei use the pale blue hypogryphs, or should they use dragonhawks like those they raise at Quel'danil Lodge? Or something entirely different? Ground mount idea:



What are your ideas? What unique design elements could be added to Silver Covenant High Elves to make them stand out?

Thread Suggestions So Far:
New standing animation
Different facial expression
New eye colors (purple, gold, yellow, white)
Wild, unkempt or messy hair
Jungle/forest hair
Tabard with Unicorn Design
Ear Variation (maybe with scars?)

Racial Ability Ideas:
Perfect Shot: Increase attack range by 3-5 yards.
On The Move: Increases flight path speed by 10%.
Perception: Increases your stealth detection.
Nimble Feet: Increases your Agility by X (scales with level).
Troll Bane: Experience gains from killing trolls increased by 20%.
You're A Natural: Herbalisim skill increased by 15.
- An ability similar to Hunter Disengage?
Runestone: Create a field that lowers aggro within. (Based on the elven runestones that dampened the trace their magic left so they were harder for dark forces to detect.)
Battle Magic: Attacks have a chance to do bonus Arcane damage. (Inspired by the war mage artwork.)
Covenant Beacon: Party members can use the beacon to return to their Hearthstone location. (Just based on the Kirin Tor Beacon from the Isle of Thunder.)
Arcane Guidance: Increases resource regeneration for the party. (Inspired by the high elves having taught the humans magic.)
Territorial: Gain increased experience from Alliance-exclusive quests. (Inspired by the Troll Wars).
Exile's Meditation: Channel this ability to quickly regenerate hp, mana/energy/rage, and remove debuffs (can only be used if out of combat for X seconds). In their years cut off from the Sunwell, Quel'dorei learned to quell their magical needs with rigid mental discipline. They can still employ such meditation.
Self-Preservation: Escape to hearthstone-bound location when under 10% health (channeled cast). As the remnants of an endangered race, every High Elf learns when to retreat to battle another day. (This is probably sorta useless, but I like the idea of Helfs making tactical retreats)
Arcane Exploits: Chance for extra materials from milling and disenchanting. The Quel'dorei have always been gifted in the arcane. This knowledge gives them a natural, practical advantage when pursuing mystic disciplines. (As a sort of counterpart to Belf Enchanting bonus)
Vengeful: Chance to do extra damage against trolls, orcs, undead, and blood elves. A High Elf never forgets a grudge. They see these races as responsible for the betrayal/loss of their kingdom, which can stoke them to a rage.

UPDATE: Wild new armor set

My thoughts?

As I said before...some interesting ideas.

But ultimately, I don't think they are viable.

First, as an Allied Race, it seems likely that High Elfs would get new animations. They'd get new racials and they'd get new emotes, new mounts and more. That seems to be part and parcel of what comes with the Allied race package.

Second, when looking to create High Elfs as an Allied Race I think we need to try to understand why Blizzard chose not to give High Elfs to the Alliance.

One option would be that Blizzard has great plans for the High Elfs. That they are the "partner race" for the Ogres. That they are saving them for something special
Seems doubtful but possible.

More likely is that Blizzard might feel...wrongly IMO...that High Elfs are still too close to the Blood Elfs and that the reason the Alliance didn't get High Elfs is simply because Blizzard didn't want Blood Elfs on the Alliance. They may also genuinely feel that Alliance players simply wanted the model and thus gave them Void Elves. That way, there was no Blood Elf baggage, and the Alliance got the model

Unfortunately, if this is true, I think they badly, badly, BADLY misjudged the situation. I understand how faction and racial identity works. It's why I am not a High Elf with green eyes. I am a Blood Elf. If this is true, it means that Blizzard...for all its talk about factional and racial identity...haven't got a clue about it.

Which would explain quite a bit.

However...this is what I try to address with my concept design. You post High Elfs with the same model. That won't work. The Alliance just got the Void Elfs. That's why I pushed the idea of a model change, to the Night Elf skeleton, or possibly the human rig. Nozdormu looks quite good IMO and he is a High Elf on a Night Elf rig.

You get new animations, new mounts, new emotes as part of the process. You get off to a good start with new cosmetic features - but it isn't enough.

Class selection also need to change. Paladins and Priests and Mages are iconic Blood elf classes. Which is why I kicked them. Thankfully, the existing High Elf story allows for that. Indeed, one can even say it requires that. Get rid of Warlockism and Death Knights as well (unless you pick up the Darkfallen idea...and you could give the High Elfs Koltira as a potential named character) and you end up with just six classes or so...depending on if you want Monks or not....and the Druid and Shaman classes fit in nicely with the idea of a retreat from magic. That doesn't mean such classes cannot be added later - just that now would be the wrong time.

And finally, the aesthetic. I'm not the first to see a Romanesque touch in the Night Elf Empire. Probably won't be the last. Which is why I suggested embracing it. If nothing else, it offers an opportunity to embrace the design style shown in the past and to increase the usage of such elements. Or we could go with the look of the lodges and use modern Night Elf buildings. Allied Races is, IMO, all about adding races on the cheap and doing so works well and also ties win with the idea of High Elfs looking to the past as they recover. It also offers an obvious aesthetic and style choice for the Heritage armour set.

You have some interesting design elements here, but I don't think they go far enough to justify High Elfs, especially if we surmise that the fear of creating Alliance Blood Elfs is the reason there is no High Elf Allied Race now. If the Alliance wants High Elfs, and I think it does, then it needs to embrace even more radical change than you are suggesting with this post.

A change in model. A change in mounts, racials, emotes, animations. A change in classes - Druids and Shamans instead of Mages. A change in architectural style, making use of existing art assets. For example...a Botani style form for the High Elfs Balance or Tree form. A Hawk for their travel form. A Polar bear for their tank form. Zandalaris = Dinos. Night Elf = Forest. Worgen = Wolf. Tauren = Savannah. High Elf could equal Polar regions. Can a druid transform into a mammoth?

The one thing I would suggest is not worth changing is their color scheme. Keep it blue and silver. That's already different from the Blood Elfs Red and Gold. Fire vs Ice.

[Garfurion]

More likely is that Blizzard might feel...wrongly IMO...that High Elfs are still too close to the Blood Elfs and that the reason the Alliance didn't get High Elfs is simply because Blizzard didn't want Blood Elfs on the Alliance. They may also genuinely feel that Alliance players simply wanted the model and thus gave them Void Elves. That way, there was no Blood Elf baggage, and the Alliance got the model

I can understand if Blizzard feels the Silver Covenant Elves are too close to Blood Elves, especially after the restoration of the Sunwell but if they think all the playerbase has been asking for was the 3D mesh of the Blood Elves then they are seriously out of touch with their customers. One of the most prominent reasons why people want High Elves on the Alliance is so they can make an Blue Eyes Elf Paladin, not the 3D mesh.

The Void Elves are badly developed and their looks and emo-theme don't appeal to a lot of players. Blizzard gave the players the thing they least cared about when requesting playable High Elves. Since Alleria still has her High Elven form it must have been clear for the design artists that the Void Elf skin-colors don't make appealing characters. It makes you wonder if Void Elves are a PR-mistake or deliberate malicious design decision aimed at a part of the player-base.

Class selection also need to change. Paladins and Priests and Mages are iconic Blood elf classes. Which is why I kicked them. Thankfully, the existing High Elf story allows for that. Indeed, one can even say it requires that. Get rid of Warlockism and Death Knights as well (unless you pick up the Darkfallen idea...and you could give the High Elfs Koltira as a potential named character) and you end up with just six classes or so...depending on if you want Monks or not....and the Druid and Shaman classes fit in nicely with the idea of a retreat from magic. That doesn't mean such classes cannot be added later - just that now would be the wrong time.

I think High Elves without Paladins as a playable option would be a mistake. Although a half-elf, Arator the Redeemer has been one of the poster-boys of Alliance High Elves since TBC. Similarly, having the Silver Covenant without mages wouldn't be believable given their appearance in the game so far and the relationship between the Kirin Tor and the Silver Covenant.

I think some of the designs shown in this thread look really nice but I'm not sure if war-paint is the solution to Silver Covenant playable elves, since it would fit some classes but not all and it would also require an option without war-paint (which would look too much like a Blood Elf).

Lightforged Elves led by Arator as an evolution of the Silver Covenant would be a better idea since it would give more options to differentiate Blood- and Light-Elves and strengthen their ideological differences (pragmatic aristocratic Blood-Elves vs idealistic humble Light Elves). It would also give the possibility for some nice discussions between Arator and his mother

[KyrtF]

I think High Elves without Paladins as a playable option would be a mistake.

Maybe...but I would argue that "now" would be the wrong time to add them

My concept had High Elf Paladins but shunted them off to the Silver Covenant grouping. Doing so created a thematic and aesthetic difference between High and Blood Elfs. Paladins could be added later once the High Elfs had firmly established their own identity.

Same for Mages and Priests. High Elf lore...right now...is that a good segment of them is moving away from the arcane. Embracing that storyline creates the space Blizzard might need to establish the race as a player faction.

In short...players would be the Hinterlands High Elf and not the Silver Covenant or Outland factions and would be limited as a result.

[Traycor]

Same for Mages and Priests. High Elf lore...right now...is that a good segment of them is moving away from the arcane.

What's the source on that? Not questioning you, I just haven't seen that so I'm curious.

As for the model, I personally would not be satisfied with the Night Elf model or aesthetic. We already have Night Elves and that doesn't do the trick. It's about more than skin color or name. Especially since Alliance has the model now anyway.

I would argue that the warpaint, hairstyles, and eye color would be as big a change as what we got for the Lightforged Draenei and the Highmountain Tauren. It would be enough.



- - - Updated - - -

The last thing I was thinking of adding was the option for some faces to have Battle Scars! High Elves have been constantly on the move with no city of their own, fighting for every scrap of ground and constantly struggling to survive. These are subtle enough to not be distracting and give a slight variation from the oh-so-pretty Blood Elves.

[Deleted]

While I like most of the art you've suggested I still think it's too close to belves and velves. Drop the retarded naked chest thing, if it's based upon the Silver Covenant and Ranger Corps then their style should be more practical and down-to-earth. Belves and velves already cover the decadent and vain, let the high elves be practical and conservative.

Practical and functional but light should be their motto.

[EbaumsTipster]

. Since Alleria still has her High Elven form it must have been clear for the design artists that the Void Elf skin-colors don't make appealing characters. It makes you wonder if Void Elves are a PR-mistake or deliberate malicious design decision aimed at a part of the player-base.

Or maybe it's because Umbric is their leader, and two purple Windrunner sisters would be the dumbest design move on the planet.

[KyrtF]

What's the source on that? Not questioning you, I just haven't seen that so I'm curious.

IIRC, there's a questline involving High Elfs in the Hinterlands which mentions it. I only remember it because at the time I thought it was a neat twist. Don't ask me which quest or NPC says it.

It is also mentioned in one of the Legends books. That info might be easier to find.

The "withdraw from the Light" twist was an extension of this concept, tying in that High Elfs traditionally did not have Paladins and the fact that the Draenei are essentially acting as missionaries of the Light. It serves to create differentiation which, at this stage, is good if you want High Elfs.

As for the model, I personally would not be satisfied with the Night Elf model or aesthetic. We already have Night Elves and that doesn't do the trick. It's about more than skin color or name. Especially since Alliance has the model now anyway.

Which is one problem....the Alliance just got the Void Elfs. You want High Elfs? I don't see Blizzard handing out the same skeleton to the same faction twice this soon. More, if the similarity to Blood Elfs is still an issue for them - I don't believe it is, but it's what Blizzard feels that is important - then having the same skeleton is a MAJOR issue and the Alliance will have to accept it isn't going to get the High Elf model with the Blood Elf skeleton.

More - if it is the faction identity you are interested in more than the model, then it shouldn't matter about the skeleton so long as it looks appropriate. Looking at Nozdormu, he is recognisable as a High Elf so the skeleton itself works for the High Elf concept, especially if the idea that these are the "outdoors" High Elfs and so more muscular, is pushed.

Warpaint and hairstyles and the like may be enough for you, but it is Blizzard who needs convincing. Maybe they'd be OK with the Blood Elf model being on two Alliance races but I can almost guarantee that a section of Horde players would also be very vocal about it, about the Alliance having more races using the Blood Elf model than the Horde. I'm trying to avoid any problems or objections by ensuring the two are as different as possible.

The simplest solution, all round, is to accept that High Elfs are unlikely to get the Blood Elf skeleton and to accept the likelihood that they will need a new rig. We can see an example of a High Elf with a Night Elf skeleton with Nozdormu so we know that works. And if that route is chosen, there is no need for warpaints. New hairstyles would be the norm anyway, and eye colour would be hidden by the eye glow....which would interfere with the concept of warpaint anyway.

Better - IMO - to base High Elfs around the Night Elf skeleton and use the High Elf eye glow be a factional identity thing. Red = DarkFallen (Warlock and Death Knight). Yellow = Silver Covenant (Paladin and Priest). Blue = Everyone else.

I would argue that the warpaint, hairstyles, and eye color would be as big a change as what we got for the Lightforged Draenei and the Highmountain Tauren. It would be enough.

Problem being that those aren't exactly equivalent because the relevant models belong with the same faction.

No - whether we agree or not, the possibility that Blizzard still sees High Elfs as encroaching upon the Blood Elf identity is the only (acceptable) reason why Blizzard chose not to give High Elfs to the Alliance. The only counter is to ensure that High Elfs do NOT encroach upon Blood Elf identity.

That means a new model must be selected. I suggested the Night Elf model because we can already see that it works.
That means iconic Blood Elf classes must be denied - at the start. No Paladins, no Priests, no Mages. The story element for such a ban is already in lore, it need not be permanent, and I suggested the High Elfs get Druids and Shamans instead. Maybe even Demon Hunters and Monks. I suggested the eye glow thingy for a special twist and I suggested the DarkFallen join the High Elfs because a: it gets rids of them as a loose end b:loathe as I to say it, they wouldn't have anywhere near the impact on the Blood Elfs because we already have warlocks and Death Knights and the Darkfallen wouldn't really fit in to the established story in game. Well, it could but it'd be more difficult with less impact. Not to say DarkFallen can't join the Horde/Blood Elfs but they shouldn't be shown in game or available as a player element. It's much simpler to add them in as a High Elf element right from the start.

To end, the Allied Race I am suggesting would still be High Elfs, would still have their factional identity, would still be following their story but would also have an ingame and in lore identity very different from Blood Elfs.

Blue and Silver vs Red and Gold
Ice vs Fire
Magic shunning rather than Magic obsessed
Paranoid and defensive rather than angry and lashing out
Distrustful of the Light rather than users.
Isolationists (at the start) rather than part of a group
Embraces the Nature magic of their ancestors rather than avoid it.

And lest I forget again

Druid forms:
Bear - Polar Bear
Cat - Siberian/Amur Tiger
Balance - Botani
Tree - Crystalline Keeper
Travel - GyrFalcon or Snowy Owl; Snow leopard

[Traycor]

That means a new model must be selected. SNIP

Druid forms:
Bear - Polar Bear
Cat - Siberian/Amur Tiger
Balance - Botani
Tree - Crystalline Keeper
Travel - GyrFalcon or Snowy Owl; Snow leopard

I get your point on the model, and it is carefully thought out. However, I think it's very far from a foregone conclusion. Even with Nozdormu, he just looks like a pale Night Elf to me. The look is quite distinct. We have Night Elves for the Alliance already, and they even have a skin tone that is reasonably close to skin color. If we make High Elves look like Night Elves and give them only Night Elf classes... why do we have High Elves? And if that would satisfy the players, they wouldn't want High Elves in the first place.

For me, it's the full package. The lore is the biggest part, but I want a High Elf to look like a High Elf. The only "new" model that would be acceptable imo would be a new one built off the Blood Elf skeleton. They could change proportions or whatever making them sleeker maybe. Their lifestyle has been very different so it makes sense. Maybe the females could have a bit more muscle. If Horde cares about the number of models, give them Void Elves as well. I'm sure Blizz could come up with a justification that is as well thought out as their initial implementation.
Or Horde could have the undead elf models mentioned several times in this thread. Dark Rangers and whatnot.

I like where you are going with the Druid forms. That one is getting posted up in the OP. Might try to think of some others as well.

[KyrtF]

I get your point on the model, and it is carefully thought out. However, I think it's very far from a foregone conclusion.

Of course it is. If Blizzard is OK with the current model, then the entire debate is pointless. But the possibility that it isn' t, that it still sees the High Elfs as too similar to Blood Elfs...same language, same culture, mostly same beliefs, same race, same architecture, etc...is not one that can be ignored.

And even if they were, I can just about guarantee a vocal segment of Horde and Blood Elf players would indeed object. And Blizzard would most likely listen to them

If Alliance players want High Elfs, they have to be prepared to accept a different skeleton.

Even with Nozdormu, he just looks like a pale Night Elf to me

You are the first person I know of who has compared Nozdormu with a Night Elf. Everyone else I know sees a High Elf. A Night Elf skeleton, true but the skin tone is High Elf, not Night Elf. The blue eye glow is a dead giveaway.

For me, it's the full package.

Then give up. I really don't believe the Alliance will get what you are arguing for. Even if Blizzard had no objections, certain Horde players will. Either accept the likelihood that the Alliance will never get High Elfs on a Blood Elf skeleton, or stop agitating for High Elfs.

Either works for me...I'm simply sick of this debate. I'm certain this will die down as it always does...but also that it'll flare up again, as it always does.

The lore is the biggest part, but I want a High Elf to look like a High Elf. The only "new" model that would be acceptable imo would be a new one built off the Blood Elf skeleton. They could change proportions or whatever making them sleeker maybe.

I doubt that will happen. Nozdormu looks like a High Elf. He has the skin tone. He has the blue eye glow. He has the upright ears. And the skeleton can no doubt be tweaked a bit.

But you have, I feel, a choice. Which is better - no High Elfs, or High Elfs on a Night Elf skeleton? If you had to pick one, which one would it be?

If Horde cares about the number of models, give them Void Elves as well.

I'm ticked you are getting the model at all. If I had my way, then giving you the Blood Elf model would NEVER have happened. I don't care how many Elf races each side has.

Or Horde could have the undead elf models mentioned several times in this thread. Dark Rangers and whatnot.

Sure. That's one possibility. The big reason I suggested adding them to the High Elfs was because they don't really add much to the Horde. We already have undead Elfs. We already have Warlocks. We already have Death Knights. The entire point was to create thematic and aesthetic differences between High Elfs and Blood Elfs so that there can be no **reasonable** objection from anyone. You could add those aspects to the High Elf faction anyway but this way, you'd get a little flair.

Horde players can't object to the High Elfs using a Night Elf skeleton.
Blizzard can't object to a faction which embraces their own storyline to create a faction identity which is very different from the established Blood Elfs.

Maybe Blizzard doesn't really care about faction identity. Maybe it would ignore the Horde players who object.

But there is something that is stopping Blizzard from adding High Elfs, and a decade of proposing Blood Elf spin offs that use the same classes, that use the same model, that use the same stereotypes has resulted in the Alliance getting Void Elfs.

I think it's time to accept that Blizzard has absolutely no intention of giving the Alliance High Elfs with a Blood Elf model and that it is time to think WAAAAYYYYY outside the box on this issue. If you don't want the Night Elf skeleton...pick one you do like. Alliance High Elfs need to be different from Blood Elfs, at least at the start. Paladins and so on can arrive later. But for the start...the High Elf faction cannot be a near identical copy of the Blood Elf. Major differences are needed and my suggestion, I feel, delivers those major differences - and does so cheaply without the need for major investment on Blizzards part.

I like where you are going with the Druid forms. That one is getting posted up in the OP. Might try to think of some others as well.

Most druid forms have some form of theme. If you go with High Elf "Ice" versus Blood Elf "Fire" then arctic creatures would seem to be suited for a High Elf druid.

Shaman totems? Got me.. Going with the ice theme, perhaps a crystalline shard shaped as an icicle? Or would that be too Christmassy?

[Traycor]

If Alliance players want High Elfs, they have to be prepared to accept a different skeleton.

If the skeleton was the problem, they wouldn't have given us Void Elves. Theme is the issue (I believe). They felt the two groups had the same theme. Clearly, it doesn't take too much to create a theme split for Allied Races. Highmountain are only slightly divergent. The main difference is the horns. Lightforged are almost identical, since all the Draenei could arguably be lightforged Draenei if you follow their history and what they are about.

So give High Elves a more paramilitary/Ranger culture, and use the visual design from Warcraft 2 (as shown in the thread). War-like hair (instead of super model hair), war paint, some scars, new eye color, and give them druids. I'd even be open to restricting arcane classes. It's a LOT more changes than the Lightforged. I believe Blizzard has shown us that this would be enough. I also think they never went this route because they feared it would be too close to Night Elves (essentially wood elves).

Up until now... I just don't think Blizzard has put any design work into making them different. They've been using the High Elves for several expansions and never tried to give them a theme. We've got one right here in this thread, and I think we've shown that it doesn't step on the toes of Night Elves, which is likely the biggest roadblock of all behind the scenes.

But if they want to remodel them using the same Blood Elf skeleton? I'm fine with that, as long as they don't look like something other than High Elves. In BC the Blood Elves were sleeker anyways, so a modest redesign could be done. A different face shape would be awesome. I'd also like a different standing stance.

Side Note:
Primary Blood Elf Themes: Arrogance, Power, Loss, A Return to Greatness
Primary High Elf Themes: Endurance, Unwillingness to Compromise Their Integrity, Rugged Survivalists, Fiercely Loyal

[KyrtF]

If the skeleton was the problem, they wouldn't have given us Void Elves.

It's the whole package and it has to change.

More, as the Alliance has Void Elfs, the reuse of the skeleton, especially this soon, is very unlikely to happen

More...you keep overlooking that Blizzard also has to deal with Horde players.

Blizzard is not likely to push a High Elf faction that is thematically and aesthetically similar to Blood Elfs, not least because of the reaction of Blood Elf players but also because the Alliance just got the model.

Alliance players have been forever rubbishing Horde claims that you just wanted the pretty model. Yet...here you are. Insisting that High Elfs should keep the Blood Elf model.

Which is it? Is it the lore or the model?

No....if Alliance does get High Elfs then they MUST be added in a manner which addresses Blizzards concerns

Not yours...not mine...but Blizzards. If the feeling that High Elfs would remain too similar to Blood Elfs is true, then for the Alliance to get High Elfs, you HAVE to sacrifice the model. You MUST look for a faction that is VERY different from Blood Elfs in looks...in culture...in values. You CANNOT suggest 'this aspect has to stay the same'.

You have to choose. Which is more important? The model or the lore/identity. With Allied Races, Blizzard has shown that the same race can have multiple models.

If High Elfs using an alternate skeleton are unacceptable to you...then you want the model. Play a Void Elf.

If you want to play a High Elf because of High Elf "identity", then even if you'd prefer the existing model you should be prepared to sacrifice it to get High Elfs. Choose one....Night Elf or Human.

But if this issue is as important to Blizzard as some suggest, then you will not get High Elfs with the Blood Elf skeleton. Accept that and accept that in this situation you have a choice...either no High Elfs, or a different model, amongst other changes.

And no....the biggest roadblock has never been Night Elfs. Its been Blood Elfs.