Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

Easy one - Elven Civil war, started by Alleria.

Not enough to successfully retake Quel'Thalas, but enough to force the various known elven groups to take a stand. Easy to justify with increasing Alliance presence in Lordearon.

[KrakHed]

I would say classic. And I would not underestimate importance of them being classic. Cause the assumption that the classic is less interesting, lead us already to the Void Elf point of story.

What led us to Void Elves is an inability to do subtlety. They're too on the nose, and not even a natural development of their story. But I have no real care for Classics. I can get them anywhere. I'm rather fond of the Blizzard spin they put on things, at least when they manage it competently. Void Elves are not an example of this. I actually strongly dislike any tendency towards "Classic" in Blizzard, because that kind of fucked over everything that made their Orcs good and interesting.

Hell, one could argue that Blizzard created a new "Classic" mold for Orcs. And then fucked it up through nostalgic regression. Even Night Elves and the Alliance as a whole were probably fucked over by nostalgic regression to a "Classic", with Night Elf personality becoming more High Elvish and the Alliance more one-dimensional. As the writing has taken even more hits, I've reached a point where I just watch to see whatever creativity they have left.

That entirely aside, I do understand the aesthetic you're shooting for.

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Easy one - Elven Civil war, started by Alleria.

Not enough to successfully retake Quel'Thalas, but enough to force the various known elven groups to take a stand. Easy to justify with increasing Alliance presence in Lordearon.

The issue with Alleria is that she's more Void Elf than anything else now. And I don't think there are enough High Elves to actually threaten Quel'thelas these days. Still, I could see a leader inspiring and rounding them up. But I don't think you want them following in Alleria's path.

[Vasaru]

-snip

I don't get why you're so invested in this topic. Get a life.

[sighy]

What led us to Void Elves is an inability to do subtlety. They're too on the nose, and not even a natural development of their story. But I have no real care for Classics. I can get them anywhere. I'm rather fond of the Blizzard spin they put on things, at least when they manage it competently. Void Elves are not an example of this. I actually strongly dislike any tendency towards "Classic" in Blizzard, because that kind of fucked over everything that made their Orcs good and interesting.

Hell, one could argue that Blizzard created a new "Classic" mold for Orcs. And then fucked it up through nostalgic regression. Even Night Elves and the Alliance as a whole were probably fucked over by nostalgic regression to a "Classic", with Night Elf personality becoming more High Elvish and the Alliance more one-dimensional. As the writing has taken even more hits, I've reached a point where I just watch to see whatever creativity they have left.

That entirely aside, I do understand the aesthetic you're shooting for.

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The issue with Alleria is that she's more Void Elf than anything else now. And I don't think there are enough High Elves to actually threaten Quel'thelas these days. Still, I could see a leader inspiring and rounding them up. But I don't think you want them following in Alleria's path.

The reason for Void Elves is the necessity for strong visual distinction, because majority of the "suggested distinctions" other than the eye color carry the stigma of "why not just add it to blood elves tho"

Alleria had potential to be interesting, before being hamstrung by Void Elves


I think if we will ever see High Elf themed customisation optins it will just be rolled under blelves customisation...

[Deleted]

(...)

You are right, I don't want them to follow. I just want Void Elves to play role of the bad guys - starting a war, using void, and maybe forcing blood elves to use fel in self defense again.

Although Alleria is - still - respected enough by the High Elves, for them to be involved at least at the beginning. And starting of the war also opens the question of relation to its possible ending. And here differences may occur. I wrote here before, that only way I see Void Elves saved as a concept, is to make them Warhammer-like, and rejecting and questioning future authority of Quel'Thalas. This is path that Alleria could go - as she is clearly wiling to overtake Silvermoon, and clearly under some influence of void. In time (greater, than WoW lasting) they could even forgot for what sake did they started a war, and abandon their human allies.

This is however route that High Elves would not go. Thus establishing new settlements. But question was about gathering together. And it is possible in such manner.

I understand not everyone cares about classic themes. I just think that's is wrong to underestimate their influence, especially when it comes to requests for High Elves and reception of Void Elves. Seems enough people care. My whole point is here, that if High Elves would took most classical niche themselves, then Blizzard would have no other choice, than to start portraying Blood Elves and Night Elves as original again. Cause yes - they started to overlap that territory to much.

[KrakHed]

You are right, I don't want them to follow. I just want Void Elves to play role of the bad guys - starting a war, using void, and maybe forcing blood elves to use fel in self defense again.

Although Alleria is - still - respected enough by the High Elves, for them to be involved at least at the beginning. And starting of the war also opens the question of relation to its possible ending. And here differences may occur. I wrote here before, that only way I see Void Elves saved as a concept, is to make them Warhammer-like, and rejecting future authority of Quel'Thalas. This is path that Alleria could go - as she is clearly wiling to overtake Silvermoon, and clearly under some influence of void. In time (greater, than WoW lasting) they could even forgot for what sake did they started a war, and abandon their human allies.

This is however route that High Elves would not go. Thus establishing new settlements. But question was about gathering together. And it is possible in such manner.

I understand not everyone cares about classic themes. I just think that's is wrong to underestimate their influence, especially when it comes to requests for High Elves and reception of Void Elves. Seems just enough people care. My whole point is here, that if High Elves would took most classical niche themselves, then Blizzard would have no other choice, than to start portraying Blood Elves and Night Elves as original again. Cause yes - they started to overlap that territory to much.

Well, I don't ever expect the Blood Elves to ever go full Fel again, but I can see them retaining a pragmatic edge. Blood Elf is an edgy name, as is "Blood Knight", and they still favor red, black, and gold colors there. If they're going to use the Light, I still want to see it done on their own terms. I want them to retain some of their "True Masters of the Light" mentality, where they don't rely on either Human or Draenei philosophy.

The thing I personally dislike about Void Elves is that I don't ever see them becoming a new classic. I don't see people looking back and actually remembering that they're part of the Alliance. Or even remembering them at all. The only fully-baked race the Alliance has gotten since Vanilla are the Draenei. If they wanted an allied race that might leave a real impression, instead of eyerolling, they'd have gone with the Krokul.

But I digress. Your suggestion is interesting, and I suppose I agree that Void Elves probably shouldn't be the evolution of High Elves. Though they're probably going to leech off population if Alleria starts a war against Silvermoon as a popular figure, probably with more than just Void Elves behind her because a war needs numbers. The number issue also being why her intention to retake Silvermoon for the Alliance strikes me as a bit detached from the reality of her situation. I honestly wouldn't mind Void Elves turning out badly for the Alliance, or them being used to further help shape what High Elves become.

Anyhow, I may as well sum up what personally stands out to me about the High Elf Population.

Firstly, they're low in overall number, and what remains of that number consists primarily of far from home militants. High Elves could be said to be a militaristic populace by default. A population of soldiers will form a different culture than one with a fully intact civilian base like Silvermoon's.

Secondly, they're kind of blended with other populations. Paired with their relatively small population, this might allow easy borrowing and spread of ideas. I've always been fond of the idea of some actually taking stuff from the Isle of Thunder. It could suit a race that is presently mostly composed of soldiers.

Thirdly, they resent Blood Elves and would likely seek to distance themselves from anything they saw as distinctly Sin'dorei. This here is helpful. They even favor cooler colors like blue and silver over the Blood Elf red and gold. So whatever energies they deal with, whatever themes we use, I'd favor what maximized blue and silver.

To make things short, I kind of favor the idea of more militarized High Elves serving as elite soldiers through one means or another. Being one of the more aggressive Alliance factions, as they were with the Silver Covenant. I may flesh out my thinking more when I'm more awake.

[Deleted]

So at this point our reasoning goes different ways, cause for me Silver Covenant would be interesting rather as connection between Alliance, and more ranger themed groups. I can't see them as being inspiring themselves, however I am open to other points of view. I was thinking rather of some refugee/exile camp revealing itself under the influence of Alliance in Lordearon, partially solving population problem. However only partially. Anyway, it's true that low population is a basic obstacle here, if not for the establishment playable race, then for the story story go. I would be open to retcons here, if they were necessary, and gave good effect.

Although what acts as obstacle in High Elf independent development, becomes advantage in possible Void Elves independent development. I actually suggested much more far-eaching scenario here -

Oh, and what I forgot to write about -

Why slavery? Why using mindless undead or enslaved demons (to the shock and disbelief of Alliance)? Because in hypothetical Dark Elf Empire, the ruling caste could be minority from the beginning. At first point we have society with serious lack of labor forces, then slowly the one that becomes more dependent on created institutions, and even forgets that once they were not a proof of being mighty. Everything fits.

And doe's that not sound to You like a scenario, that void would like to whisper straight to the willing ears? After all, it's about seeing possibilities.

[Obelisk Kai]

@Obelisk Kai So you say that Ion Hazzikostas is a god and is opinion is fact because of that, and then say that we are all just fans but you are on Ion's side so you are right just by that... pathetic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact

A fact is a statement that is consistent with reality or can be proven with evidence. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability <---- (Careful with that).

While is true that Ion is kind of a god in the game, it doesn't change the fact that he is a human, so your rationale is weak just by that, he was not the first and will not be the last main director, and what he said was his opinion and not verified facts, their rationale is not truth by default, is just that simple, i suggest you to change your mind on that.

It's a nonsense that you try to focus on opinions and twist them to making them facts by doing mental gymnastics.

You start lying when you say that you 'understand' (but avoided the answer about objectivity totally, pretty convenient) that the only solid argument that we have is that developers can change their minds. Maybe you say that because that possibility bothers you? Or surely it is.

But the best part is you answering me that you have years of Blizzard's statements, the last time you gave me one it were an interview from late 2005 in where you twisted it saying that HE and BE were used as something interchangable, when in that interview the usage of HE and BE were used to refer to the Silvermoon society before and after the scourge invasion, if you have that much of Blizzard's statements from over the years that support the fact that HE aren't possible, show it, just try to be honest with that not like usual.

And i'm not going to comment very fondly on the whole 'all you got is praying' because at this point it just seems that you are projecting yourself in others (remember devs are gods and i am in their side? check that).

And i'm just going to finish pointing your dishonesty by saying that HE would be a copy without alteration, you don't have more to backup that than i have by just saying that playable races always get modified when added, even Mag'har and Dark Iron are getting tweaked, and they could have been just copy pastes, what do you have to backup that?.

This entire retort is nonsense.

The facts are what the developers say they are, they are not 'opinions'. You are a fan. You have an opinion. You may wish the game to go one direction or another, but you have no power to influence it's direction beyond voicing that opinion. The developers, by virtue of being developers, have the agency to change the game world, they are in effect Gods over that world. So when a developer says something it is not an opinion, it is a fact.

And whether you like it or not, the game director's facts will always trump your biased opinions on this matter and every other matter. You may appeal to the developers in the hope that they will come around to your point of view, but you don't get to pretend that all they offer is 'opinions'.

And they have been extremely consistent on the place of High Elves for many, many years.

As for the High Elves being a copy without alteration, that is all they are. You accuse me of dishonesty, but when Blizzard did give the Alliance altered High Elves it sparked a seven month whingefest on how 'it wasn't what we asked for!'. Every suggestion on how to introduce High Elves is the same tolkien style elf with different hairstyles and the occasional tattoo.

Void Elves prove the lie that some pro High Elf players spout when they say they'd accept an altered High Elf.



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snip

That there are High Elves in the Alliance is irrelevant. If the Grimtotem aligned themselves with the Alliance I'd be equally opposed to allowing you to have playable Tauren.

High Elves and Tauren are available, playable options. If you don't want to play Horde that is fine, but the price of that is denying yourself access to those options.

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Even without the ****ing platitude, basic English tells you they left the door open and the fact the game evolves over time leaves the door open. The people who have "latched" onto the platitude isn't the Pro-Helfers ... it's your side "It's just a platitude!"

It is just a platitude. You are the one incapable of understanding a condescending pat on the head is just a condescending pat on the head. If you view the entire answer he made as one piece, and do not cherry pick the end for false hope.

Because a summary of his answer would be "This is why adding High Elves would be a terrible, terrible idea that would be immensely detrimental to the game and story we want to tell and we invented Void Elves as something distinct, but who knows, despite all those negatives, maybe someday".

This is self-evident. The rationale for rejecting playable High Elves is not going to change just because the expansion ends. Or the expansion after that. Or the expansion after that.

Did you even read my original quote? You post it but clearly didn't read. Read it again. Do you know how I know you haven't read it? YOU ARE LITERALLY NOW REPEATING MY POINT as proof I was wrong. I didn't say anything about it BEING a compromise ... I stated about SEEING IT as one. Do you not know the difference?

And then basically, you proved how it wasn't a compromise in your explanation ... so I don't see why you bothered.

It is a compromise. Just one you reject.

Here is the thing, the Pro-Helfers are annoying ... the Anti-Helfers feel the need to argue with them ... which is worse? I rather an annoying group than a person that feels the need to tell said group they are wrong when they aren't doing anything beyond stating what they want.

What you don't get to do EVER is assert why I am making my argument and state I am wrong in why I do what I do. You don't get to dictate what I am because it doesn't fit your little world view. Which, FYI, is literally the worst possible offense in debating ... so thank you for proving yourself wrong.

Stating why your argument is wrong is called debating. That you consider holding a contrary opinion worse than conspiring to silence the opposition through abuse of the reporting systems demonstrates that your priorities are out of order.

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Perhaps it could be seen as whiny, but it is far more honest, and doesn't use tired logical arguments that no longer make sense within not only the lore, but within how systems are setup these days.

Ithekro remember, before you critique my arguments using the lore, you have in recent days talked about

1.) The Horde purging Light infected Elves and

2.) The Sunwell turning Elves back into Trolls.

Before you critique my use of the lore, perhaps you would like to get a grip on it yourself instead of sharing those nonsensical theories with us?

The problem people have with my arguments is that mine are sourced and based on in game evidence, word of God from the developers and a thorough understanding of the in game lore.

I have never experienced someone quoting a developer to undermine my arguments, because your side literally has nothing. If you were able to provide some evidence to back up your assertions, I would consider it, as I did when Garfurion posted a statement from Kosak saying half-breeds were rare and so Half Elves and Mok'Nathal are unlikely.

But you don't, because you can't, because you have nothing on this topic that sustains your case. Merely the same argument it always boils down to with the pro High Elf community.

That if you complain long enough and loudly enough, Blizzard will cave and give you what you want.

I am counting it as coming up on thirteen years since Caydiem made the first response to a question on playable High Elves in 2005. They haven't broken yet.

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I don't get why you're so invested in this topic. Get a life.

Welcome back. I see you've recovered from your meltdown following Ion's interview.
@Arrashi has not killed himself as you last suggested, for which we are thankful.

Kill yourself.

Infracted [ML]

After all, it would be terrible to so invested in a topic that you wished death on others because you didn't get your way.

[Doffen]

When you search the #Warcraft on Twitter this also pops up with 1.3k <3s !



<3 for the High Elves

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Warcraft?src=hash

Wow that was nice. Arcane Mage ftw!

[RangerDaz]

Man, i stay away for 50 pages and when i come back the posts are the same as always

I guess this will reach the 1000 posts until the high elves are playable

Ps: i didnt say announced, because that will only require the 500th post

[Xrzq]

Lets get some!

[RangerDaz]

When you search the #Warcraft on Twitter this also pops up with 1.3k !

<3 for the High Elves

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Warcraft?src=hash

Nice drawing!

[serendipity11]

You can have high elves. But I want San'layn or undead elves of some kind. Y'all obviously don't have a problem with elf inflation so might as well go all out eh? They could be released at the same time too. Finally make my dream of being a dark ranger come true! Or a vampire fighting against werewolves!

[RangerDaz]

You can have high elves. But I want San'layn or undead elves of some kind. Y'all obviously don't have a problem with elf inflation so might as well go all out eh? They could be released at the same time too. Finally make my dream of being a dark ranger come true! Or a vampire fighting against werewolves!

I want them all!

*Gets a pokemon vibe*

Actually i have a feeling dark rangers will be a hero class in the next xpac, as they are giving Sanlayn now.

As hero classes are confirmed not to get love in this xpac, i guess they will in the next one.

I even bet 2 hero classes will come out: dark ranger and tinkerer.

[Arrashi]

Welcome back. I see you've recovered from your meltdown following Ion's interview.
Arrashi has not killed himself as you last suggested, for which we are thankful.
After all, it would be terrible to so invested in a topic that you wished death on others because you didn't get your way.

High elven fans sure are very violent and volatile people.

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Man, i stay away for 50 pages and when i come back the posts are the same as always

I guess this will reach the 1000 posts until the high elves are playable

Ps: i didnt say announced, because that will only require the 500th post

That was the case since 13 years now not 50 pages. Since you know, for all the yammering, high elves aren't any closer to ever be playable.

[Obelisk Kai]

I want them all!

*Gets a pokemon vibe*

I was happy with two groups of elves, one per faction.

Four is overkill, but it has happened and we can adjust to it.

Please, no more Elves. No San'layn. No Undead Elves. No High Elves. No Felbood Elves.No Wood Elves. No Dark Elves. No Storm Elves. No Elves without borders. No Arcane Elves. No Time Elves. No I can't believe it's not an elf.

Why can't we have long nearly three hundred page topics on playable Jinyu?

[serendipity11]

I want them all!

*Gets a pokemon vibe*

Actually i have a feeling dark rangers will be a hero class in the next xpac, as they are giving Sanlayn now.

As hero classes are confirmed not to get love in this xpac, i guess they will in the next one.

I even bet 2 hero classes will come out: dark ranger and tinkerer.

Wait really?

[arcaine]

elves are great - btw how many pointless replies do i need to make to unlock image to post application?

[serendipity11]

Because obviously NOT everyone want's to play a Night elf with a badly textured fish head that only has one gender...

I mean seriously if you don't want Elves why hang around in a elf thread you're just making your persistence seem annoying.

Jinyu have one gender just like ogres do. Which is to say they don't. But the gameplay mechanic (Read: Dev Laziness) means we only see one gender in game. Jinyu have neat lore and are a cool race. Idk if I'd play one though. I'd rather a naga with regular legs while on water. Like a rebellion or dissident group against Queen Azshara and the old gods.

[RangerDaz]

High elven fans sure are very violent and volatile people.

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That was the case since 13 years now not 50 pages. Since you know, for all the yammering, high elves aren't any closer to ever be playable.

Well i am very nice, i dont feel volatile nor violent!

But Arrashi, 13 years ago there was no allied race system where random wow races totally unknown to players before their announcement become playable *glares at void elves*

And i dont complain... i like them as well