Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Deleted]

As for three elf races having blue skin colours (leaving aside that we have FOUR elf races in the game)...well that's not strictly true.

And it would not be true for High Elves either, as proposals showed here, at the beginning of the topic, showed skins ranging from current pale, to slightly brown, avoiding a wide arch red colorization, introduced in TBC era.

Moreover, I already stated, that poses used by current Thalasian elves, are also not best for what were High Elves portrayed once as. Which is obvious, since this model was created to present Blood Elf behavior and style. And this statement is not current invention, but opinion I sustain since more than 12 years.

[Obelisk Kai]

And it would not be true for High Elves either, as proposals showed here, at the beginning of the topic, showed skins ranging from current pale, to slightly brown, avoiding a wide arch red colorization, introduced in TBC era.

Moreover, I already stated, that poses used by current Thalasian elves, are also not best for what were High Elves portrayed once as. Which is obvious, since this model was created to present Blood Elf behavior and style. And this statement is not current invention, but opinion I sustain since more than 12 years.

The proposals at the start of this thread, no matter how much they impress you, are visual fanfiction. They have no bearing on the game.

There is no evidence that thalassian elves have a skin tone range exceeding the ones they currently have. Every thalassian elf skin ranges from pale white to a flushed skin tone. There is no evidence for any darker tones.

Even if there were darker tones, the idea that they can be confined to High Elves alone is ridiculous. Blood Elves are High Elves, therefore darker skin tones of the sort you describe would have to be available to Blood Elves also, as there is no rationale reason for them not to be.

Your opinion, as far as I can make out, seems to be that High Elves can be meaningfully differentiated from Blood Elves. They cannot. Redesigning High Elves to be different from Blood Elves yet still remaining High Elves is like reinventing the wheel. And given the developer's statements in the last Q and A, to even stand a chance you would have to reinvent the wheel in such a way that it is not ROUND. None of the artwork presented in this thread comes anywhere near accomplishing that.

Everything suggested from the tattoos to the hairstyles could easily be done with a Blood Elf.

[Deleted]

And yet, it was not done. Cause classical ranger tattoos, as presented for example on Alleria, rather broke current way of portraying Blood ELves. And so they stay unused since decade.

I pointed, that even if implementing such changes for Blood Elves was possible, it for sure would not serve their developmend well, as it rather would push further erosion of their concept, already softened to much since TBC era. Blood Elves with inclusion of those ideas only lose on their uniqueness. And we have already many people complaining, that they are not the same, as they were originally introduced. That they became to generic.

There is no other way for them, to being portrayed again as in TBC era, than make High Elves playable, based on WC2 art, and highlighting differences showed in WC3.

Last but not least - I see easy explanations for those appearance changes - more frequent crossbreeding, different ways of dealing with magic addiction in past, change in lifestyle etc. Much of those ideas were already presented here as well.

You seem to be very tied to what You consider possible... Like You were not present here during great Draenei retcon, when all word presented before, get just turned upside down, for no other reason, than one picture being more "cool" than another.

[Obelisk Kai]

And yet, it was not done. Cause classical ranger tattoos, as presented for example on Alleria, rather broke current way of portraying Blood ELves. And so they stay unused since decade.

Moreover - I pointed, that even if implementing such changes for Blood Elves was possible, it for sure would not serve their developmend well, as it rather would push further erosion of their concept, already softened to much since TBC era. Blood Elves with inclusion of those ideas only lose on their uniqueness. And we have already many people complaining, that they are not the same, as they were originally introduced. That they become to generic.

There is no other way for them, to being portrayed again as in TBC era, than make High Elves playable, based on WC2 art, and highlighting differences showed in WC3.

Last but not least - I see easy explanations for those appearance changes - more frequent crossbreeding, different ways of dealing with magic addiction in past, change in lifestyle.

You seem to be very tied to what You consider possible... Like You were not present here during great Draenei retcon, when all word presented before, get just turned upside down, for no other reason, than one picture being more "cool" than another.

I was here during the great Draenei retcon. I remember visiting the village of the lost ones in the Swamp of Sorrows before the revelation of the new Alliance race but when it was heavily suspected to be Draenei and wondering if they would really be it.

That entire plot has seen been completely rewritten. No longer did Sargeras fall to evil because of his interactions with Demons, instead it was driven by his fear of the Void and the Old Gods. But the key thing about that retcon is that it didn't require them to make an in game change, it merely altered the background information in a way that was fully consistent with the way the game world is portrayed now.

Any retcons used on Blood/High Elves to produce a set of different skin tones would be noticed. They would stand out. They would be immersion breaking.

As for your concern regarding Blood Elves losing their uniqueness due to the introduction of concepts such as the tattoos or hairstyles, having a thematically and biologically identical race join the Alliance would be much, much worse in regards to their uniqueness. You cannot use Blood Elves losing their uniqueness as an argument in favour of playable High Elves, that is a complete contradiction.

High Elves cannot be portrayed differently from Blood Elves because both groups are the same and divided only by a political opinion. Void Elves are what Blizzard ended up with when they tried to differentiate a group of Blood/High Elves meaningfully from the rest of the group. They are the answer.

[Deleted]

IAny retcons used on Blood/High Elves to produce a set of different skin tones would be noticed. They would stand out. They would be immersion breaking.

That's just personal opinion. Distorted by personal assumption, that all players follow this discussion holding their breaths, with the heart on the shoulder. I would rather said, they would welcome end of this topic with open arms, for such little cost as those few new bronze skins.

You ignore the fact, that the said retcon changed completely what the players understood as 'Draenei'. And yet - we are still here. The sky over Azeroth did not collapse.

thematically and biologically identical

Thing is - themes of this races were always slightly different. Parallel - yes, very strongly. But not ever exactly the same.

And if Blood Elves now are recognized only by skin color, then they are already lost. And Horde already lost their most unique race, and even did not noticed it.

[Obelisk Kai]

That's just personal opinion. Distorted by personal assumption, that all players follow this discussion holding their breaths, with heart on the shoulder. I would rather tell, they would welcome end of this topic with open arms, for such little cost as those few new bronze skins.

You ignore the fact, that the said retcon changed completely what the players understood as 'Draenei'.

If you believe the player base is sick to death of this topic, perhaps you can make the first step, accept that Void Elves are the answer and resist from asking for a horde race to be made available to the Alliance.

And no, it is not personal assumption. A group of Elves previously presented as identical to the Blood Elves suddenly changing to the degree described would definitely be immersion breaking and to deny that is just minimizing the consequences of your suggestions.

Thing is - themes of this races were always slightly different. Parallel - yes, very strongly. But not never exactly the same.

And if Blood Elves now are recognized just by skin color, then they are already lost. And Horde already lost their most unique race, and even did not noticed it.

The themes of the High Elf and the Blood Elf identical. To quote the developer, a 'fair-skinned, light blonde haired majestic elf'. A traditional tolkien style elf in other words.
That is not parallel. Parallel is two roads going in the same direction that never cross. This is the same road.

[Darththeo]

If you believe the player base is sick to death of this topic, perhaps you can make the first step, accept that Void Elves are the answer and resist from asking for a horde race to be made available to the Alliance.

And no, it is not personal assumption. A group of Elves previously presented as identical to the Blood Elves suddenly changing to the degree described would definitely be immersion breaking and to deny that is just minimizing the consequences of your suggestions.



The themes of the High Elf and the Blood Elf identical. To quote the developer, a 'fair-skinned, light blonde haired majestic elf'. A traditional tolkien style elf in other words.
That is not parallel. Parallel is two roads going in the same direction that never cross. This is the same road.

How would playable High Elves break immersion? That is really not making any sense. If it does break immersion, how did Void Elves apparently avoid this fate?

[Deleted]

If you believe the player base is sick to death of this topic, perhaps you can make the first step, accept that Void Elves are the answer and resist from asking for a horde race to be made available to the Alliance.

Well I could... If only the High Elf fans ever really requested for "the horde race", as it is for sure unfortunately what they got. Thing is, they asked for the old Alliance race, that differs from what Horde get in TBC, and which is still to some point presented in game.

And no, it is not personal assumption. A group of Elves previously presented as identical to the Blood Elves suddenly changing to the degree described would definitely be immersion breaking and to deny that is just minimizing the consequences of your suggestions.

For one time as identical, for another as different. Seems to depend on Blizzards mood. But more seriously - I remember different behavior from RTS, so I assume, that for example High Elves having Blood Elf poses are just consequence on them having no own model. Would that really be something we have never seen before?

To quote the developer, a 'fair-skinned, light blonde haired majestic elf'. A traditional tolkien style elf in other words.

Praise our lord savior Ion Hazzikostas, the Elfbreaker! And who sounds like sectarian here?

No matter how many times Ion goes to tell people, that he decided, since now 2 +2 = 7, there will still be people who won't admit it, if they do not recognize High Elves in Blood Elves. And they don't.

That is not parallel. Parallel is two roads going in the same direction that never cross. This is the same road.

They made different decisions facing the same problems. They intentionally try to present to foreign as different. They fight each other, they can not have peace or unite.

Perfect parallel as for me. Just highlight differences, not similarities, and You got it.

[Obelisk Kai]

Well I could... If only the High Elf fans ever really requested for "the horde race", as it is for sure unfortunately what they got. Thing is, they asked for the old Alliance race, that differs from what Horde get in TBC, and which is still to some point presented in game.

They are the same race. The devs have acknowledged them to be the same race on multiple occasions. To argue that High Elves are different enough from Blood Elves to warrant being made an Allied race flies in the face of everything we have been told, they are not.

The Blood Elves are the same race as that 'old Alliance race'. They switched sides.

For one time as identical, for another as different. Seems to depend on Blizzards mood. But more seriously - I remember different behavior from RTS, so I assume, that for example High Elves having Blood Elf poses are just consequence on them having no own model. Would that really be something we have never seen before?

It does not depend on Blizzard's mood. Blizzard has described Blood Elves as High Elves consistently since 2005. There are multiple sources for this.

Praise our lord savior Ion Hazzikostas, the Elfbreaker! And who sounds like sectarian here?

No matter how many times Ion goes to tell people, that he decided, since now 2 +2 = 7, there will still be people who won't admit it, if they do not recognize High Elves in Blood Elves. And they don't.

Whether you like it or not, the position of a developer and the team outranks the position of a fan with an agenda. What I mean by that is you want playable High Elves. You are therefore incentivised to ignore or minimize all information that goes against that.

You personally believe High Elves are different from Blood Elves.

The developers have left us know that they do not hold that position. As a result, your belief is incorrect.

They made different decisions facing the same problems. They intentionally try to present to foreign as different. They fight each other, they can not have peace or unite.

If political differences resulted in biological differences, you might have a point. They do not. As it is, Blood Elves and High Elves are physically identical. What separates them is a political ideology. More than that, the vast, vast majority of thalassian elves elected to become Blood Elves.

Perfect parallel as for me. Just highlight differences, not similarities, and You got it.

There are no differences of any note. That is why this thread began as an attempt to invent some. That attempt failed, but the fact it exists is tacit acknowledgement of the truth that Blood Elves are High Elves and therefore High Elves are already playable, albeit as a Horde race. Duplicating a core race of the Horde for use on the Alliance, allowing Alliance players to play that race without having to commit to the Horde, is fundamentally unfair to the Horde.

If you desire to play a High Elf so much, you may join the Horde.

If you cannot stomach the Horde and wish to remain Alliance, the Void Elf variant is available to play.

If you want to play something thematically identical to a Blood/High Elf within the Alliance you are out of luck, the same way I am out of luck if I wanted to play a Horde Draenei.

[elbleuet]

High elves will never be a thing, unfortunately. But new void elf Lore satisfies me. Reclaiming Quel'Thalas (or let's say trying to) in the name of the Alliance, even if we probably aren't gonna see this in WoW is a good step.
Plus the fact Vereesa seems to survive post-BfA, so we'll still get 2 windrunner sisters. I just hope that the Silver Covenant is somewhat involved within the new void elf Lore.

Having normal high elves fighting alongside void elves would be a good start.

[Sorrior]

They don't have HE plans, if by high elves you mean Alliance high elves becoming playable.

They bluntly told you they have no HE plans.

Saying 'I think they have HE plans' after they bluntly tell you they don't isn't even grasping at straws. There is no straw to grasp.



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I suspect this thread is kept open for one reason only, to contain this never ending discussion. Prior to it's existence there were multiple pro High Elf threads as everyone and their mother came up with some new angle they felt justified another new thread, yet it always rapidly devolved back into the same topic and arguments.

By keeping this megathread open, the moderators probably think they are sparing the rest of the forums from being overwhelmed by countless High Elf threads. The moderators on the official forums took a similar stance as well recently and they now actively lock or delete High Elf topics outside of one main one.

- - - Updated - - -



Source please, because I have never heard that said.

Fact you cannot even pay attention to context yet again proven.

No i meant story wise thus why turning them down

- - - Updated - - -

And then this...



Genuine curiosity, what makes you suspect it?

Their constabtly turning HE down implies to me they plan to do something storywise or SOMETHING we as players don't know prevents it. If so they really should have hinted at it.

Buut i am also in the suspecting this is the last faction war camp and maybe the divide between races will go away soon in favor of old god, void lord and light war. We have MUCH bigger fights coming up and much bigger wars. The petty faction wars mean nothing compared to what we have and will fight.

[Sigxy]

High Elves won't happen in BFA, but I think they will eventually, provided the allied race system doesn't slow/stop. When they are available, I'll have one for sure.

At this rate, I'm expecting them to do what Ion said during the interview.

Giving Blood Elves blue contact lenses. >_>

[Sorrior]

Here is my obligatory "get my opinion in before it's lost to the flaming/arguing" of this thread:

People who want playable high elves for the Alliance only want to play a white skinned elf character with non-green eye customization(ie: blood elf model) on the Alliance side. It has nothing to do with lore reasoning for these people.

The utter refusal to play Horde as an elf proves it. They want the exact same kind of elf that the Horde gets, but waving the blue and gold flag instead. So you get your blood elf model race on the Alliance finally... only the skin is not white and the hair isn't your typical brown, blonde and/or dark.

At the end of the day it's all ABOUT THE SKIN COLOR!

Msny of us also do have BE buut would love to have HE as an option as well.

[Sigxy]

Msny of us also do have BE buut would love to have HE as an option as well.

Then wouldn't you say it's a better idea to just ask Blizzard to make blue eyes a thing for blood elves? Golden eyes are a thing, so it's likely they can add blue later on. That way, both pro-high elves and anti-high elves can come to some agreement, for sure. You get to play 'high elves'.

[Sorrior]

I was here during the great Draenei retcon. I remember visiting the village of the lost ones in the Swamp of Sorrows before the revelation of the new Alliance race but when it was heavily suspected to be Draenei and wondering if they would really be it.

That entire plot has seen been completely rewritten. No longer did Sargeras fall to evil because of his interactions with Demons, instead it was driven by his fear of the Void and the Old Gods. But the key thing about that retcon is that it didn't require them to make an in game change, it merely altered the background information in a way that was fully consistent with the way the game world is portrayed now.

Any retcons used on Blood/High Elves to produce a set of different skin tones would be noticed. They would stand out. They would be immersion breaking.

As for your concern regarding Blood Elves losing their uniqueness due to the introduction of concepts such as the tattoos or hairstyles, having a thematically and biologically identical race join the Alliance would be much, much worse in regards to their uniqueness. You cannot use Blood Elves losing their uniqueness as an argument in favour of playable High Elves, that is a complete contradiction.

High Elves cannot be portrayed differently from Blood Elves because both groups are the same and divided only by a political opinion. Void Elves are what Blizzard ended up with when they tried to differentiate a group of Blood/High Elves meaningfully from the rest of the group. They are the answer.

Yet they have done many in game changes see BE AND HE models being changed from the prior NE version in most cases or Sylvanas.

Your argument about in game changes is already proven to be false

[Deleted]

There are multiple sources for this.

Which we seem to interpret totally different.

incorrect.

I don't think there is such thing like "correct" or "incorrect" when it comes to story interpretations... And even If it would be - it applies only as long, as they don't change mind on that matter, like on many things before.

My views are just my views. I knowledge disagreement, however I am kind of person who would still rather speak loud, even if having disagreement with Judeo-Christian god. Unfortunately for You, these are views shared by thousands of people, who do not recognize Blood Elves, as High Elves.

If political differences resulted in biological differences, you might have a point.

First - not all differences mentioned here were political, and some - like more frequent crossbreeding, mentioned even in game - have far more reaching outcome, than just political. Secondly - saying, that political differences can't have biological consequences would be untrue even in real world (division of Korea example), and in fantasy world is just silly, and was disproved few months ago, by that unfortunate accident, called Void Elves.

If you cannot stomach the Horde

Who told You I ever played Alliance?

I loved Blood Elves once. When hey were introduced. Cause there was no similar elf in any other fantasy world. And calling them - then - " traditional tolkien style " would probably make audience laugh. However I can not stand devs destroying them, by making identical with High Elves anymore, without any objection. It is people who speak for reading them as identical, are those who actually harm them.

All the rest of the post is just repeating the same opinion in different ways as kind of spell, in case the summoning of the lord and the saviors name was not enough in this time to banish evil spirits. Well... I disagree as much times, as You repeat.

And last, but not least - I absolutely have no feeling that this thread "failed".
It rather showed already many possibilities of highlighting differences, and huge field for compromises

Giving Blood Elves blue contact lenses. >_>

Well, for me the case would be effective solved, cause lost. But I would still disagree, that such solution was the best one.

[KrakHed]

Yet they have done many in game changes see BE AND HE models being changed from the prior NE version in most cases or Sylvanas.

Your argument about in game changes is already proven to be false

I think you misunderstood his argument. Yes, they do change models. But BE and HE models were always consistent with one another for the most part. Adding something new would probably require explaining, and not just lazy retconning.

[Deleted]

Not exactly. Blood Elves used redskined Night Elf model before they got their own. What other explanation do we need, that High Elves use Blood Elf model now, cause there is no model created especially for them, yet?

And this one is the closest, however not perfect fit.

If if it turns out to be true, that vampires will be using straight back undead model remake, not Blood Elf model reskin, neither Blood Prince NPC model as they do now, would you been waiting for explanations, too?

They just do new model, if further differentiation is needed, and go.

[Sigxy]

Not exactly. Blood Elves used redskined Night Elf model before they got their own. What other explanation do we need, that High Elves use Blood Elf model now, cause there is no model created especially for them, yet?

There was no lore that showed the Blood Elves & Night Elves having the same body types.

There is, however, lore that shows Blood Elves & High Elves having the same body types.

[Deleted]

There was no lore that showed the Blood Elves & Night Elves having the same body types.

Yes. But there were also differences in presenting High Elf and Blood Elf behavior in WC3, that are not reproduced by model showing them all in aggressive and challenging poses, fitting mostly Blood Elves. I personally hold this opinion since their introduction, so it's little bit older, than this thread, and I rather could not be accused of wanting just "thalasian model with blue eyes".

And so - model similar to Nightborne could be in fact better. If we also give similar explanations as for Tirasians - slightly different heritage (crossbreeding), slightly different lifestyle (more turned in favor of nature was proposed here before, as for answer for finding their way of elven nature-magic balance - cause of being the most consistent with favored by many fans earliest WC2 ranger concepts) then in fact problem is solved.

Understanding, that for High Elf fans their classical elf theme is much more crucial, than "thalasian model with blue eyes" is best way to avoid mistakes similar to Void Elves. And shut down the case. Benefit comes mostly for Night Elves, and Blood Elves, who can not be portrayed anymore as "generic", and have to be pushed further back in roles consistent with their core concepts. This is actually thing that many players wanted.