Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Strippling]

Void Elves are part of the Silver Covenant?

Big news!!

The allied race Mag'har came from outland or durotar?

Big news!!

I said you could rp a silver covenant void elf.. just like you can rp a mag'har from outland...

[Aldo Hawk]

The allied race Mag'har came from outland or durotar?

Big news!!

I said you could rp a silver covenant void elf.. just like you can rp a mag'har from outland...

Ren'dorei aren't Silver Covenant members, Mag'har orcs are just orcs with brown skin.

If you don't see the problem here is not my fucking fault.

[Strippling]

Ren'dorei aren't Silver Covenant members, Mag'har orcs are just orcs with brown skin.

If you don't see the problem here is not my fucking fault.

Calm down buttercup, no need to get angry.

The allied race Mag'har orcs are not from Outland or from Durotar.. they are from AU Draenor.

You originally stated that you could play a Mag'har and say they came from Outland. I responded by saying you could play a Void Elf and pretend they were from the Silver Covenant... which is no different to your statement. What's the issue?

[Aldo Hawk]

Calm down buttercup, no need to get angry.

The allied race Mag'har orcs are not from Outland or from Durotar.. they are from AU Draenor.

You originally stated that you could play a Mag'har and say they came from Outland. I responded by saying you could play a Void Elf and pretend they were from the Silver Covenant... which is no different to your statement. What's the issue?

The issue is that you are doing a wrong comparison and treating it as a truth my dear, try to be a bit aware of what you are talking about.

[Deleted]

I just think that when people start to almost demand that they should be playable

It's annoying, as long as You are convenient people should not have such expectations. But in the relation between company making game for profit, and customers there is no reason for much sentiment. If people feel, that they are not allowed to experience the game in way they would like the most - they in fact should speak about it.

Of course - It would be a lot easier, if everyone was creative here, and do not just stop at looking at High Elves and simply demand them playable.
But -

First thing not everyone can. I - as for example - had never time to push own graphic skills on any serious level, despite being quite efficient in manual drawing. Second - with all due respect for all great fan made concepts, by all people on the world, who are and always will be creative from their own internal need - not all have to be willing, to do for free work, for which already someone else is taking money here. At least not beyond point of extend they feel fine with.

So in fact - it is perfectly fine, if someone is willing just to express support, or sign up under statement, that some specific ways of experiencing game are lacking, if that's all they are willing to. After all - that scale of interest matters. Even if it is, not the most pleasant thing, to being witness of that scale. As well as matters ensuring that feedback is understandable and accurate. I doubt that this threads can disappear, if expectations expressed in them will not be properly recognized and addressed.

As for saying that there is no need for more elves - Blizzards decisions since Legion suggest, that they are aware of need of recreating success of Blood Elves, even if they look like being at least partially oblivious of it's source. After all - population of one of the factions can not be based solely on one playable race. So we should expect more elves in future anyway.

Welp you just knockef soellforce up on my backlog list..still not started em even though i have had all 3 for ages lol

I played just first part. And recall that game as almost as well as Warcraft 3. Very pleasant combination of RTS and RPG, nice diverse, and very classically portrayed races to play. Just maybe units too similar to each other.

@FlubberPuddy - I'm an anti-heifer, but I'm NOT anti a fair skinned, traditional fantasy elf race being added to the alliance. I just don't think it should be high elves as they currently exist.

Tell us then, how would You like solve the case? By not searching closest points of attachment in game world?

Having in mind, of course, that already such introductions as Void Elves, Sethrak and Vulpera become criticized as so called "asspulls".

[Strippling]

The issue is that you are doing a wrong comparison and treating it as a truth my dear, try to be a bit aware of what you are talking about.

Wrong comparison? How? lol....

[FlubberPuddy]

Firstly, if it was about the lore and not the skin colour then why the heck have pro-high elfers basically only provided ideas and input on how to make HIGH ELFS playable??? I've seen barely any input and suggestions from pro-high elfers on how to progress the high elf story via the void elfs... all I see is ""wah wah we wanted high elfs, not grape elfs". So, tell me again how light skinned pretty elfs on the alliance wasn't the agenda?

Secondly, with regard to the royal guard:

Little is known of what exactly the Royal Guard's duties were, aside from the stated goal of defending high elven society. Due to their name, it is possible that they served as the personal guard force of the royal family, which would also lend credence to defending Regent Lord Theron. This is from https://wow.gamepedia.com/Royal_Guard_(Quel%27Thalas).

I can't find anywhere the states the royal guard were specifically paladins. If I've missed it please let me know. So, stating the royal guard were paladins is likely pure speculation... or in other words 'reaching' to suit a certain agenda (ie. muh elf paladins on the blue side!!). The only solid lore I can find on elf paladins is the order of blood knights.

In your own words, ignorance of the lore doesn't make something a reality... or in this case. head canon lore doesn't make something a reality.

You sound so illogical, "why are pro-high elfers wanting to make high elves playable!?" Why don't they love not High Elves?!! Are you understanding yourself when you create these sentences?

You're basically asking "why are people only pushing for what they want and not what I/others want?" Uhhh...because that's what they want!! Duhh

And I literally share with you from the Paladin races page, an excerpt showing that Royal Guard had Paladins right here:

"Blood elves were once high elves allied with the humans like the dwarves. Like the two others, high elves also believed in the Holy Light. A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard."

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Paladin_races

Can you be any more daft in your responses man??? It's taken from the Paladin Races page, it's all about Paladins. And I bolded where Royal Guard had Paladins! Not only that you are ignoring the sentences before where it says "a FEW were members of the Silver Hand, SUCH AS Mehlar Dawnblade" it's not stating Mehlar was the ONLY High Elf Paladin.

Jeezus dude, it's comments like these which make me just outright ignore further questioning. You obviously are ignorant of the proofs even when they're shown plainly to your face.

And not knowing exactly the duties of the Royal Guard doesn't preclude them from having Paladins in the first place, not that this point even matters. The Royal Guard existed before Blood Elves and was a High Elf thing and the Paladin Races page describes that some Paladins belonged to the Royal Guard - a High Elf thing - that alone should be proof enough High Elf Paladins existed.

[Deleted]

The issue is that you are doing a wrong comparison and treating it as a truth my dear, try to be a bit aware of what you are talking about.

Uh, it's a great comparison. If we're talking lore, if this entire discussion is really just about lore (lol), Blizzard didn't give us the MU mag'har people were asking for, we got this completely new group of mag'har from an alternate universe that's also somehow from the future. RPing as a regular mag'har from MU Garadar, the ones we've been seeing as Horde NPCs and fighting beside for years (does this story sound familiar? ), is lore-breaking.

It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation. RPers can and already are writing around this, saying their void elf was a Silver Covenant member or w/e, but strictly speaking your AU mag'har was not an MU mag'har, and your void elf was not a high elf.

I can pretend my AU mag'har was a former Garrosh loyalist, and you can pretend your void elf was a Silver Covenant member, but if lore is all that matters then neither of us should be happy. If lore is the core of the issue, that looks don't matter and void elves only suck because they're canonically derived from the group of Thalassian elves I dislike (Silvermoon) and not the group of Thalassian elves I like (Silver Covenant), then mag'har are in the exact same boat.

But I think it's all bullshit. I think it's much simpler, much shallower, and comes back to what Obelisk was saying. As we saw in the original void elf megathreads - before the same people running them wrote off Velves as a failure and turned them into high elf megathreads - the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

And honestly? So did I. I like my elves pretty, what can I say. I'd love my void elf (pretty though she is) to look like Alleria, her leader and inspiration. Heck, I still hope Blizzard comes out and says the Velf ritual is replicable and Locus-Walker is indeed making a new generation of Alleria-type void elves from the high elf and blood elf acolytes in Telogrus Rift, opening up some "normal" customization for Velves.

But I wouldn't want Blizzard to waste another race slot on what could easily be a skin color for void elves. No more than I'd demand they add brown orcs a second time because the AU mag'har have a weird backstory.

[FlubberPuddy]

Uh, it's a great comparison. If we're talking lore, if this entire discussion is really just about lore (lol), Blizzard didn't give us the MU mag'har people were asking for, we got this completely new group of mag'har from an alternate universe that's also somehow from the future. RPing as a regular mag'har from MU Garadar, the ones we've been seeing as Horde NPCs and fighting beside for years (does this story sound familiar? ), is lore-breaking.

It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation. RPers can and already are writing around this, saying their void elf was a Silver Covenant member or w/e, but strictly speaking your AU mag'har was not an MU mag'har, and your void elf was not a high elf.

I can pretend my AU mag'har was a former Garrosh loyalist, and you can pretend your void elf was a Silver Covenant member, but if lore is all that matters then neither of us should be happy. If lore is the core of the issue, that looks don't matter and void elves only suck because they're canonically derived from the group of Thalassian elves I dislike (Silvermoon) and not the group of Thalassian elves I like (Silver Covenant), then mag'har are in the exact same boat.

But I think it's all bullshit. I think it's much simpler, much shallower, and comes back to what Obelisk was saying. As we saw in the original void elf megathreads - before the same people running them wrote off Velves as a failure and turned them into high elf megathreads - the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

And honestly? So did I. I like my elves pretty, what can I say. I'd love my void elf to look like Alleria, her leader and inspiration. Heck, I still hope Blizzard comes out and says the Velf ritual is replicable and Locus-Walker is indeed making a new generation of Alleria-type void elves from the high elf and blood elf acolytes in Telogrus Rift, opening up some "normal" customization for Velves.

But I wouldn't want Blizzard to waste another race slot on what could easily be a skin color for void elves. No more than I'd demand they add brown orcs a second time because the AU mag'har have a weird backstory.

The developers, Ion in particular even refers to Void Elves as a type of Blood Elf. So therefore, people can headcanon all they want. At least Mag'har can actually LOOK like MU Mag'har.

Void Elf players RPing as a High Elf can't even do that.

And if you're going to say "oh stop focusing on looks" the entire purpose of Allied Races is all about looks. Lore is just a sprinkling.

But Void Elves, currently, are through and through Blood Elves. If you want to say "oh just RP" then people could've just RPed Dark Iron, or Lightforged, or Highmountain, or Mag'har.

It should be blatantly obvious why the "just RP" shtick doesn't cut it. Let's all just RP we're dragons then, no need for any new dragon race. Let's just all RP that our goblins are Vulpera and Worgen can be SNEKS.

Undermines the entire Allied Races system.

There is a huge difference between something being supported by the game, and something that isn't. And right now playable High Elves isn't. No amount of RP will bring that into reality.

Also yeah it really shows me the character of people who pretty much can look like the races they've always wanted, yet want to nitpick little ass details such as not being MU vs AU.

It's like the whole Nightborne thing with the "omg their eyes so round" they don't like their 'npc" at least they look damn 99% similar. Jeezus some people.

And the reason people switched from the Void Elf threads to High Elf threads is because those people were fed up with trying to compromise and said "you know what, let's just ask for what we really want - High Elves" and those why those discussion threads were born and Void Elf threads were left to rot.

To truly show Blizzard, nah all these "Void Elf threads" for "Void Elf discussion" it's not that people are so interested in Void Elves, it's that people wanted High Elves in the first place and got some unknown asspull elves out of nowhere.

[Aldo Hawk]

Wrong comparison? How? lol....

It's a shame that i have to explain that a Mag'har is a brown orc that you can role as any kind or brown orc in existance while a void elf is not a high elf by any means.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh, it's a great comparison. If we're talking lore, if this entire discussion is really just about lore (lol), Blizzard didn't give us the MU mag'har people were asking for, we got this completely new group of mag'har from an alternate universe that's also somehow from the future. RPing as a regular mag'har from MU Garadar, the ones we've been seeing as Horde NPCs and fighting beside for years (does this story sound familiar? ), is lore-breaking.

It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation. RPers can and already are writing around this, saying their void elf was a Silver Covenant member or w/e, but strictly speaking your AU mag'har was not an MU mag'har, and your void elf was not a high elf.

I can pretend my AU mag'har was a former Garrosh loyalist, and you can pretend your void elf was a Silver Covenant member, but if lore is all that matters then neither of us should be happy. If lore is the core of the issue, that looks don't matter and void elves only suck because they're canonically derived from the group of Thalassian elves I dislike (Silvermoon) and not the group of Thalassian elves I like (Silver Covenant), then mag'har are in the exact same boat.

But I think it's all bullshit. I think it's much simpler, much shallower, and comes back to what Obelisk was saying. As we saw in the original void elf megathreads - before the same people running them wrote off Velves as a failure and turned them into high elf megathreads - the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

And honestly? So did I. I like my elves pretty, what can I say. I'd love my void elf (pretty though she is) to look like Alleria, her leader and inspiration. Heck, I still hope Blizzard comes out and says the Velf ritual is replicable and Locus-Walker is indeed making a new generation of Alleria-type void elves from the high elf and blood elf acolytes in Telogrus Rift, opening up some "normal" customization for Velves.

But I wouldn't want Blizzard to waste another race slot on what could easily be a skin color for void elves. No more than I'd demand they add brown orcs a second time because the AU mag'har have a weird backstory.

The void look of Void Elves locks them into a theme, the looks from a Mag'har doesn't, don't overcomplicate it, it's a crap what they did with Mag'har? yes, everyone expected those from Outland, but it doesn't stop you from having a Mag'har from Outland, at least pretending, you can't do that with a VE just because of how it looks.

A silver covenant member being transformed into a Void Elf (don't forget Void Elves are ALL Blood Elves) is total headcanon.

Vould be nice if they added to the VE lore a new way to transform elves into void elves and then present a group of FORMER HIGH ELVES being transformed into, that would give a good excuse, but is not comparable to a Mag'har where their looks aren't completely tied to the lore they asigned to them.

[Deleted]

It's actually very similar to the high elf/void elf situation.

Cosmic level of absurd...

Mag'har are Mag'har - uncorrupted orcs by definition. Resonants of original orcish culture - no matter what world do they come from. Void Elves, when comes to term of themes and motifs are simple opposite of High Elf, opposite of classical elf niche. As it was stated in this thread before - You can not play void elf, without being actual practitioner of Void magic, controversial form of magic - by definition rejected by High Elves. You can not call Void Elf form of implementation of classic elven motifs.

the overwhelming request was simply that they look normal. They wanted their elf to be Alleria, caucasian and pretty and blonde. Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

If I like Allerias look just because she is caucasian, then answer my - why do You think I hate High Elven reskins of Sylvanas?
Why did I criticized ideas of turning Quel'Thalas Alliance here, using such phrases like being disappointed of >>simple recoloring<<?
Why would I straightly speak against so called normal skins for Void Elves?
Why would I be against giving blue eyes to Blood Elves?
Why was I arguing so much, that equating both Void Elves and Blood Elves with High Elves harms them, and do not allow to follow their core concepts?

I will answer one of this questions for You - I hate Sylvanas reskins, cause they are so similar to current Blood Elves. They are easy to describe just by Ion's worlds - "majestic", and in fact - nothing more. Meanwhile Alleria - who was not character from the WC3, but WC2, still keeps in her appearance memory of the period when they were portrayed in the most classic way. The same memory, that pushes people to create Ranger themed concepts like ones in the beginning of this thread. I don't care existing lore at all, I care for current High Elves being a starting point for recreating classical elves, and reusing oldest Blizzard's elven concepts. And them being independently developed further in that tracks. I care about concepts, themes and niches fulfilled by different types of elves. And I know absolutely for sure, that as long, as this lacking point is not fulfilled, identifies of Blood, Void or Night Elves will undergo further erosion, cause of pushing them and extending to become appealing for people interested in classical elves. What makes them all tasteless jokes.

Yes, it counts also for Night Elves growing pumpkins instead being warrior amazons. It's connected vessels system.

Quite literally a blood elf with blue eyes.

If that was true, it would mean there is no Blood Elves in this game anymore. Ion's worlds are their tombstone, and people like Obelisk are dancing on their grave, pushing their buried uniqueness straight further in the ground. If You can't even define them more precisely - they are finished.

Blood Elves were once ambiguous, morally ambivalent, scared people, who made difficult choices. Under layer of their beauty, there were hidden wildness, danger and hunger for power, even cruelty. They were like Drows in disguise. That was the Elves, who once get me truly impressed, as one of the most unique known to me elven implementation.

Not a f*****g caucasian blondes with no character and no properties. I want erosion of the (all) elven concepts reversed. And all elements of the puzzle back to their place. If You wan't to play innocent, pure elf, with no hard story, any controversies and moral ambivalence - It's Alliance, that should wait for You.

what could easily be a skin color for void elves

For You. That does not mean this is everything what other people can see in them.

[Strippling]

You're basically asking "why are people only pushing for what they want and not what I/others want?" Uhhh...because that's what they want!! Duhh

Which goes back to what I originally stated... some people want playable pretty light skinned elfs on the alliance BUT they don't consider the effect it could have on others (such as faction pride...which you know...is a CORE part of this game). They then get upset because these other players express their concern about blurring faction lines, even though they have a legitimate reason to be concerned. Their concerns are then normally responded to with some form of attack (whether it be finger wagging, nasty comments, arrogant or snide remarks, stubborness, etc...). Not all pro-high elf supporters respond negatively, but from reading multiple threads on the topic it's safe to conclude that a vast majority normally beat their chests when a counter-argument is put forward to them.

You claimed initially that you cared about the lore progression of high elfs not the aesthetics, but now you're saying the opposite. Make up your mind, is it about the lore or is it about the aesthetics??

If it's about the lore then how about you offer up suggestions as to how blizz could progress the high elf story via void elfs.. or separately (but if separately it should not come at the expense of or detract from the void elf story progression).

If it's about the aesthetics, then expect plenty more push back from anti-high elfers and blizz. Although your bias toward playable high elfs might cloud your vision, the reality is that requesting the aesthetic will impact many others faction pride/identity...which again...is a CORE aspect of the game. I know this may be hard for you and others like you to accept, but don't act like a victim when you experience push back or are presented with counter-arguments. Also, stop claiming that any counter-arguments have been debunked....because they haven't (regardless of your head canon) and Blizz agrees too.

As long as you and others keep requesting playable blue eyed blood elfs on the alliance, expect resistance. Your request literally comes at the expense of others game experience. Requesting NPC high elf progression via void elfs is more appropriate, and you'll likely experience less resistance on the forums if you focus on that agenda. If you want to play a light skinned elf, the Horde is waiting for you. If I want to play a short, stocky dwarf with a mighty beard, the Alliance is waiting for me.

Also, regarding your paladin comments (which by the way are truly reaching)... here's an excerpt from the very same link you gave me.

High elves paladins are rare,[8] but do exist. The few high elf paladins and priests proved invaluable in the Third War

Night elf paladins are rare, with only a few being seen in game.

Notice how both night elf and high elf paladins existed but were rare???

If I apply your logic that lorewise high elfs were paladins because of a couple rare) cases, then with that same breath we can also say that lorewise night elfs were paladins too. This is not the case, you know it and I know it too...

[Deleted]

Which goes back to what I originally stated... some people want playable pretty light skinned elfs on the alliance BUT they don't consider the effect it could have on others (such as faction pride...which you know...is a CORE part of this game).

Think about what You have written for a moment - creating new light skinned elven race, would be "harming to the faction pride". But creating four different elven races in all shades of blue and purple is no harm for any faction, right? This casts rather bad light on the source of this pride.

No. People don't want High Elves just because they are pretty. They want High Elves, because they are unsatisfied of lacking classical elves in game. It's much more than being pretty - it's following references, and tropes that are included in "High Elf" name not by Blizzard's definition, but by common meaning of this name.

And not every light skinned elf is archetypal classical elf. As many people, including me, do not recognize as such Blood Elves in any way.

[Strippling]

Think about what You have written for a moment - creating new light skinned elven race, would be "harming to the faction pride". But creating four different elven races in all shades of blue and purple is no harm for any faction, right? This casts rather bad light on the source of this pride.

No. People don't want High Elves just because they are pretty. They want High Elves, because they are unsatisfied of lacking classical elves in game. It's much more than being pretty - it's following references, and tropes that are included in "High Elf" name not by Blizzard's definition, but by common meaning of this name.

Blizz have created four different elven races with various colours and shades to provide the player base a variety of options each with own uniqueness, flavour and allegiance. Adding high elfs would detract from this uniqueness (mainly limited visual distinction between high and blood elf) and as such detract from the Horde (more so than what the existing playable elf races do).

The 'classical' elfs you are referring to may have existed in WC II, but in WC III they became what we call today the blood elfs (and yes a small minority ala the current high elfs did not join them). But, Blizz chose to take this 'classical' elf concept in other direction... that direction being the blood elfs and now the void elfs. This new direction of classical elfs has become a core part of the Horde, with another flavour of them being added to the alliance. To many, adding high elfs would detract from the direction Blizz chose to take them and also detract from the faction pride that has now been established with them over the past decade.

WoW focuses heavily on faction identity, so any matter (such as high elfs) that could blur this identity needs to be seriously considered. In this case, Blizz considered it a risk to blurring faction lines and consequently responded in the recent Q&A. Anti-high elfers recognised the risks too, and have expressed their concerns. Unfortunately, a few individuals on both sides don't like it when someone doesn't agree with them so hostilities have gradually risen over the last couple of months. Unfortunately, I'm guilty of falling into this trap of throwing hostile missile verbals back and forth, and so are many others in this forum. So with that, I appreciate your respectful counter-comments toward me.

[Deleted]

Blizz have created four different elven races with various colours and shades to provide the player base a variety of options each with own uniqueness, flavour and allegiance.

And this is exactly, what should be continued in independent High Elf development, as proposed on the begging of this thread skin colors differs as much from the Blood Elves, as Nightborne differs from Night Elves.

The 'classical' elfs you are referring to may have existed in WC II

But they are just way of portraying elves - in behavior, character, look (not limited to physicality). And moreover - that niche extends further, than what was shown in WC2, as this is just best possible starting point.

But, Blizz chose to take this 'classical' elf concept in other direction... that direction being the blood elfs and now the void elfs.

Neither of whom are classical anymore, as Void Elves for example take nearly all look from Warhammer's dark elves, and are by lore practitioners of forbidden magic, and so - they are on totally different territory now.

but in WC III they became what we call today the blood elfs (and yes a small minority ala the current high elfs did not join them).

And got huge part of story time, as close parallel stories are not harming faction divisions, but strengthening them and making more interesting, more attention catching. Constant appearance of High Elves on screen is in fact proof that Blizzard to some point acknowledges it.

Only identify that is endangered here is identify of other elves - like Blood Elves, if they are going to be further equated with High Elves, with whom they were never identical in way of portraying - when comes to themes, character and behavior. They were very close parallels, and so it is to this day.

Unfortunately, a few individuals on both sides don't like it when someone doesn't agree with them so hostilities have gradually risen over the last couple of months.

There are people who are here for discussion, and there are people who are here for crusade.

When people currently opposing to High Elves implementation were honest, and willing to listen about what exactly High Elves fans want to get - I had no troubles to convince them, that in fact a compromise field is huge, as implementing High Elves:

- Do not requires Thalasian elf model - in fact I stated, that imho this model is to aggressive in poses, and Nightborne skeleton would be better,
- Do not requires identical skins, as proposed on beginning of this thread are different, and still consistent with classical elven themes,
- Do not requires taking anything from the Horde, as bases mostly on unused and useless for current Blood Elf development direction motifs,
- Do not have to use the same architecture, as for example - I proposed here ideas of new settlements, created as rediscovered hidden refugee/exiles camps etc.
- Do require a story, and independent development, what creates occasion to highlight the differences (new lifestyle, more frequent crossbreeding, new solutions of balancing nature and arcane problem etc).

And still can be consistent with classical elven themes, in ways Blood Elves and Void Elves can not.

Also have few bonuses:

- Allows continue so called "mirroring" - close paralell storytelling, just with more highlighted differences, aside of independent development,
- Allows, or rather forces Blizzard to keep Blood Elves, Void Elves and Night Elves in niches close to their own core concepts, stops them from eroding, For Example - Void Elves released from task of being appealing to High Elven fans, can be pushed more in dark elven territory and stop being just silly joke,
- Stimulates discussion about fair share of elven motifs - I proposed here runic tattoos for Blood Elven faces, and anthers for Night Elves, as new customization options, while old school ranger tattoos for High Elves.

Blizzard in fact considered answering to High Elven demands, but failed in recognizing what people want. They just took blue eyes and Thalasian model, and pushed it as far from classical elf territory, as it was actually possible. However - after such move it is very hard to defend statement, that classical elf - in fact much less blurring lines can not be added.

Blizzard's answer in Q&A is just "we have no idea what to do with them". Well - if they do not tried to find out, or got distorted feedback, then it's not surprising. That however doesn't mean, there are in fact no good ways of solving this case.

PS: I might also loose temper a little, when someone tells me, that elves are defined just by look, not by their relation to archetypes.

[Aldo Hawk]

@Strippling Well, seeing that you don't want to continue the goddamn hostility of this thread i'm going to answer you in the most kind way i can.

You are concerned by the possibility of damaging the faction identities, but i can only say to you that there are ways to make HE different from BE when we talk about looks, may it be throught hairstyles/hairstyles with feathers or various decorations, jewelry, optional warpaint (with somekind of glow even throught armor), facial hair/facial hair with feathers or various decorations, slightly modified faces, or even restricting them the tanner skin options of some range (not so much) and giving two pairs of paler tones.

I would have missed something, but what i wrote can be seen in fan art inspired in Alleria and how HE were and are presented in wow, and that for me is enought to diferentiate them visually, because lorewise it's yet clear the differentiation.

There is an important thing about the discussion. That this is a mix of lore and looks, while the lore already allows such thing as alliance HE, the looks is what makes people worried, lore should only be taken when speaking of looks, because otherway we end in dishonesty and headcanon.

After all this you (or others) may think: 'Well, it seems that this is all about looks then'. I can only answer one thing: Yes and no, while looks is what attract some people the lore is what is keeping this thing alive, some of the people here who supports HE would never play one if they get added (not every HE supporter is alliance for example, and some alliance supporting it would not play one), HE were the obvious choose in the first place and we got VE with weak excuses, that is what fueled all this discussion apart from having the new allied race system, we respect the lore and want the factions to be the most complete as they can be, me personally would not be here asking for it if HE were not alliance in the first place, but they are, and they deserve a second look.

I don't expect everyone to agree with this, but what i expect understanding and not just finger pointing and blaming for wanting something.

Edit: I would even accept VE being formed by some HE, that would be shitty but at least they would be HE from the alliance in the alliance.

Me, as a horde player, feel more insulted about VE being formed of BE than if in the first place they were formed of HE, and i would not care at all if they added HE, i would be totally fine to see that.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just bravo post @JdRobespierre really sums it up.
@Strippling you are very incoherent right now. By your own notion it's okay to have 3+ variations of blue/purple elves (that's exactly what Nightborne and Void Elves are) yet for some strange reason there can only be one fair-ish skin type elf?

I advocate for what makes sense in the game. Alliance High Elves make sense, them being playable make sense. The only reason they aren't right now is because Blizzard considers it to "blur faction lines" and honestly it's more what Jd said, Blizzard has no idea what to do with them. So they just keep Alliance High Elves mosey-ing on along.

I have already stated and restated for you that if Void Elves were not just Blood Elves and indeed the major High Elf story got sucked into Void Elves then I wouldn't advocate for playable High Elves because then one can see the High Elf story going forward is Void Elf story.

That's not what happened though, Void Elves are entirely Blood Elves and even the newest lore that came out about them from Magister Umbric continues to state and show that they're ALL exiled Silvermoon Blood Elves that are part of his crew. It's head canon to think any Void Elves are High Elves right now.

Could this change in the future? Absolutely, but that's not the case right now.

Besides, it wouldn't even make sense for the majority of High Elves to even become Void Elves by their own admission they rejected the Fel, a dark form of magic, they wouldn't then just all of a sudden change their minds about that and be happy using Void magic.

What you're trying to do is make Void Elves more appealing to High Elf fans like me, but I'll tell you this: I don't give a shit about Void Elves, exiled Blood Elves are not what I wanted. I don't even like the Blood Elves on Horde as they are, not because they're Horde but because they're the archetypical stuck up bitchy elves that think they're better than the rest.

Alliance High Elves admonished those themes when they left Quel'thalas, the way Elisande berates them is pretty much how Blood Elves would berate them too.

This whole notion of "Lor'themar allows all elves to pilgrimage to Sunwell" okay but everyone's taking it to mean that ALL High Elves go to the Sunwell. That's such a dumb line of thinking.

It's more like this: You have a huge family feud and the family splits into two groups, one smaller and one bigger, the Head of the Household of the bigger group says "I know we have our differences but the house is always welcome to you guys" That doesn't negate all the animosity between most of the group members of each split family.

It's stupid to think just because it's allowed, that then all High Elves must be doing that. Nowhere in the game does it show this, players are just blowing this out of proportion.

If I'm considered a lame ass dude that no one wants to be around, but I have an awesome gaming setup, and say anyone can come play, I bet most people still won't come because they'd have to deal with my lame ass self while they're playing my awesome gaming setup.

Hope these examples explain well enough, that just because he allows it, doesn't mean it's actually happening. The pilgrimage's to the Sunwell didn't stop the Dalaran Purge from happening basically.

Anyways that was a tangent, but basically I don't give a shit about Void Elves so I'm not going to waste my time "trying to make them better" there's already people that enjoy them for what they are, and the new lore that keeps coming keeps showing that these elves are through and through Blood Elves.

All it does is actually reveal that all Blood Elves weren't so gung ho about the Horde, and that leaves one to wonder how many current Horde Blood Elves are also not as loyal but feigning their loyalty.

And about the Paladin bit: Seriously man, that section that you are quoting is talking about Post Blood Elf/High Elf split. My mention of High Elf Paladins being in the Royal Guard comes before that, before Blood Elves even existed. High Elf Paladins being members of the Silver Hand, and other High Elf Paladins being members of the Royal Guard comes BEFORE Blood Elves even exist.

The section you're quoting is about current day groups, that's why High Elves, Half-elves, and Night Elves are mentioned. And why they mention current High Elf Paladin NPCs in that section that exist in WoW.

I'm going to let this be probably one of the last times, if not the last time, I spend this much time trying to explain stuff to you because I hate long-winded posts both writing and reading them.

If you can't grasp it by now then Idk what else to say. I'll let others who are better at it like Jd handle it instead.

[Byleth]

Tell us then, how would You like solve the case? By not searching closest points of attachment in game world?

Having in mind, of course, that already such introductions as Void Elves, Sethrak and Vulpera become criticized as so called "asspulls".

I've already given my stance on that. Please refer back to previous posts before calling me out.

Also, I have never referred to allied race as ass-pulls, I actually hate that term. But yes, I do believe something fresh and new could be added relatively quickly to fill the gap. Blizz have proven they can do it.

- - - Updated - - -

When people currently opposing to High Elves implementation were honest, and willing to listen about what exactly High Elves fans want to get - I had no troubles to convince them, that in fact a compromise field is huge, as implementing High Elves:

- Do not requires Thalasian elf model - in fact I stated, that imho this model is to aggressive in poses, and Nightborne skeleton would be better,
- Do not requires identical skins, as proposed on beginning of this thread are different, and still consistent with classical elven themes,
- Do not requires taking anything from the Horde, as bases mostly on unused and useless for current Blood Elf development direction motifs,
- Do not have to use the same architecture, as for example - I proposed here ideas of new settlements, created as rediscovered hidden refugee/exiles camps etc.
- Do require a story, and independent development, what creates occasion to highlight the differences (new lifestyle, more frequent crossbreeding, new solutions of balancing nature and arcane problem etc).

And still can be consistent with classical elven themes, in ways Blood Elves and Void Elves can not.

This is pretty much how I fell on the matter. Except for the Nightborne skeleton, that part is just weird.

I'm pretty much fine with anything that does not use the Thalasian model, even if it's labelled a high elf.

[FlubberPuddy]

As long as you and others keep requesting playable blue eyed blood elfs on the alliance, expect resistance.

Also, this is literally what Void Elves are. So if that's truly all people were asking for then Void Elves should've been the huge runaway success and we'd have tons of High Elf fans praising Blizzard for finally after so many long years requesting it, adding High Elves.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: I would even accept VE being formed by some HE, that would be shitty but at least they would be HE from the alliance in the alliance.

Me, as a horde player, feel more insulted about VE being formed of BE than if in the first place they were formed of HE, and i would not care at all if they added HE, i would be totally fine to see that.

What's interesting is that this is pretty much known feedback since even the Unofficial Void Elf threads. Blizzard is often times quick to respond to feedback when it's pretty blatant.

This would've been a very easy fix, they could've had Magister Umbric include or mention that Alliance High Elves turned into/making more Void Elves with their newest lines from him.

But they didn't.

They kept it only to Void Elves being Blood Elves.

It can maybe point to potentially Blizzard wanting to keep High Elves available for something later.

Because everyone's been saying what you've commented as well and even anti-helfers would consider this to be an easy fix through that way. Yet they didn't do that, why not?

They changed stuff like Sylvanas's letter in Stormsong Valley when people were so offended by "how evil it blatantly makes her" so why not change the lines Umbric says?

[Garfurion]

What's interesting is that this is pretty much known feedback since even the Unofficial Void Elf threads. Blizzard is often times quick to respond to feedback when it's pretty blatant.

This would've been a very easy fix, they could've had Magister Umbric include or mention that Alliance High Elves turned into/making more Void Elves with their newest lines from him.

But they didn't.

They kept it only to Void Elves being Blood Elves.

It can maybe point to potentially Blizzard wanting to keep High Elves available for something later.

Because everyone's been saying what you've commented as well and even anti-helfers would consider this to be an easy fix through that way. Yet they didn't do that, why not?

They changed stuff like Sylvanas's letter in Stormsong Valley when people were so offended by "how evil it blatantly makes her" so why not change the lines Umbric says?

Having some no-name High Elves willingly submitting to transformation into Void Elves doesn't really make sense though and it will take any High Elf studying the void like Alleria did years before the can master it (and they would end up looking like normal High Elves like Alleria).

They could have based the Void Elves on Auric Sunchaser and Outland High Elves being forcefully transformed into Void Elves but Blizzard either didn't consider this or the Void Elves being former Blood Elves will turn out to be an important story arc (e.g. Umbric knowing how to disable Silvermoon's defenses)

The Silver Covenant could not be used as the basis for Void Elves since it would have meant transforming Vereesa into a Void Elf and Blizzard needs her at the moment as the "normal" Windrunner sister.