Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Theoris]

Is this thread still alive and people still discuss this topic?

This topic will be discussed until either Blizzard caves in and give people SC high elves or WoW shuts down. Would be interesting to see if this thread will still be around if or when (respectively) that happens.

[Darththeo]

The Void Elves are a matter of debate. It is heavily implied that the Void Elves are able to convert other thalassian elves willing to join their cause into Void Elves. If this is true, then the Void Elves would easily at this point outnumber the remaining Alliance High Elves as they would be able to draw from both groups to boost their numbers.

While informed speculation only, you cannot do the same thing for Alliance High Elves given that Blizzard has been very vocal and very consistent in letting us know they are almost all dead and that the survivors are likely interbreeding with humanity.

I personally don't bring up LFDraenei as they seem to be at least as numerous as the base race if not more so.

However, we know they are "recruiting" Blood Elves and High Elves, we have no idea if they are making more Void Elves. We can either speculate they are, or they are looking for like minded elves to join their cause. Even if they are recruiting and converting Blood Elves and High Elves into Void Elves it doesn't mean they A) do outnumber High Elves or B) ever will outnumber High Elves. What matters also is right now, they don't ... that isn't speculation that's a fact. They were a small group of Blood Elves that were converted into Void Elves ... there could be more Void Elves in the Future than High Elves, but right now there isn't.

Also, Blizzard has stated point blank that half elves like all half races are rare ... so High Elves aren't likely interbreeding with Humans.

[Sigxy]

The fact that people like Obelisk have to come in and continually "remind people it won't happen" means they aren't confident enough by Ion's own response. Otherwise they wouldn't be trying so hard to stamp out people's request/hope. <-- and that is exactly the purpose of posts like Obelisk's and a few others.

That's... not how it works... you know that, right...?

Right now what you're asking for, is that you want 100% pro high-elves on this thread and people are not allowed to speak against your thoughts. If you want that - go make your own forums.

[Aldo Hawk]

So instead of making an argument, you're going to appeal to a falsehood that I'm not stable or my feelings are hurt? You're aware that's another logical fallacy, right?

I think you just KO'd yourself with that last post. Talk about a deflection. I think you're done for the day.

Falsehood? Read your own post my dude, it seems wrote with anger.

I don't like to waste energy arguing with unstable people that can only provide anger and hate.

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That's... not how it works... you know that, right...?

Right now what you're asking for, is that you want 100% pro high-elves on this thread and people are not allowed to speak against your thoughts. If you want that - go make your own forums.

And what about wanting people with all kind of opinions but without goddamn biases and clear anger about the thread?

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Also, Blizzard has stated point blank that half elves like all half races are rare ... so High Elves aren't likely interbreeding with Humans.

High Elves are interbreeding with humans, the answer is: In what degree? and untill now we can't tell, there is the windrunner sisters and Elisande's hateful commentary, but that doesn't give a clear point about that.

[Strippling]

To those still pushing the pro-high elf agenda: Your persistence is acknowledged... but bloody hell some people are starting to sound like a child throwing a fit because their mummy bought them a blue Popsicle, not the red one.

As much as high elfs might sound plausible to be playable and as much as they are a popular request for some players, at the end of the day it does feel like their inclusion as an AR would blur faction identity too much. Unfortunately I think people need to accept that this is the way the story has been written, and that light skinned thalassian elfs are and will always be a core part of the Horde... not the Alliance.

[Enkrypt]

Falsehood? Read your own post my dude, it seems wrote with anger.

No argument. Only more of that, "I'm right and Blizzard's wrong." nonsense. Noted.

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To those still pushing the pro-high elf agenda: Your persistence is acknowledged... but bloody hell some people are starting to sound like a child throwing a fit because their mummy bought them a blue Popsicle, not the red one.

Indeed, this is the case. They claim Blizzard must be wrong. They claim lore. Yet here we are, with Blizzard saying they're too rare, and the lore stating that High Elves essentially joined Horde and became Blood Elves. The latest bit, and I hope you're sitting down, is that both the Night Elves and Nightborne are both purple. So, totally a precedent, right? That's that fine logic Blizzard is contending with.

I repeat, yet he we are.

[FlubberPuddy]

That's... not how it works... you know that, right...?

Right now what you're asking for, is that you want 100% pro high-elves on this thread and people are not allowed to speak against your thoughts. If you want that - go make your own forums.

That's exactly how it works. Someone who was confident that "High Elves would never be" from Ion's response would typically go: Finally he said it. It's done.

Then continue about their days not wasting time trying to still "convince others" it won't ever happen.

What Obelisk is doing is nothing other than trying to stamp out the discussion/people's hopes. He wants those who still strive for High Elves to be playable to stop wishing it so, he wants them to feel utterly defeated by Ion's statement. Which is why he has to keep trying to rub it in.

This isn't anything new, the moderators of this thread have even come in here and stated so that people who make comments such as this thread shouldn't be alive anymore or the constant berating of others needs to stop.

I'm not going to say the berating doesn't happen on both sides, so try not to focus on that too much.

The people who are still here discussing possibility of High Elves or come to leave comments hoping still that one day they are playable are doing just that, making their request still known EVEN WITH Ion's response.

It's not like the people who wish for High Elves are ignoring Ion's response. Some are saying he's incorrect, to say that means to acknowledge it in the first place.

Yet Obelisk and a few others like to hide behind that the people who are asking for High Elves are in "denial". Denial would be never acknowledging Ion's response in the first place.

But this is just a smokescreen to veil the blatant attempt and trying to end the discussion on High Elves, that's truly what he and a few others wish.

Because why else would people need to be "constantly reminded" about Ion's response when they are making their comments from acknowledging Ion's response.

That's exactly how it works and you know this as well yet try to feign ignorance and strawman me by saying I only want 100% pro HEs. When there are posters here that don't come with the sole purpose of stamping out hope/hating on the thread for existing yet still disagree with the notion of playable Alliance High Elves.

It's not about speaking against thoughts, it's about berating those that have a different opinion which certain anti-helf posters seem to do.

Again the mods of this website and thread have even acknowledged that this is going on in this thread so nice try.

[Byleth]

@FlubberPuddy - I'm an anti-heifer, but I'm NOT anti a fair skinned, traditional fantasy elf race being added to the alliance. I just don't think it should be high elves as they currently exist.

Don't make generalized, sweeping statements about anti-helfers goals.

Also, this is the High-Elf megathread. Claiming that it's for pro-helfers only, when in reality it's the one and only designated place to discuss the topic for both sides is not a good look.

[FlubberPuddy]

@FlubberPuddy - I'm an anti-heifer, but I'm NOT anti a fair skinned, traditional fantasy elf race being added to the alliance. I just don't think it should be high elves as they currently exist.

Don't make generalized, sweeping statements about anti-helfers goals.

Also, this is the High-Elf megathread. Claiming that it's for pro-helfers only, when in reality it's the one and only designated place to discuss the topic for both sides is not a good look.

It's not about speaking against thoughts, it's about berating those that have a different opinion which certain anti-helf posters seem to do.

Please re-read. I don't generalize at all. I've always used "certain" and "few" when describing the specific peeps I'm talking about.

EDIT: Here's from the previous post of mine before the more recent one I made.

and that is exactly the purpose of posts like Obelisk's and a few others.

[Doffen]

How about Vrykul Elves? Kval'dorei got a nice ring to it.

[FlubberPuddy]

How about Vrykul Elves? Kval'dorei got a nice ring to it.

That actually sounds pretty cool, Viking Elves? Hell yeah! (Please let them be Paladins)

[Doffen]

That actually sounds pretty cool, Viking Elves? Hell yeah! (Please let them be Paladins)

Yeah, they can be the sea elves right Kvaldir+elf=Kval'dorei!

[FlubberPuddy]

Yeah, they can be the sea elves right Kvaldir+elf=Kval'dorei!

I would actually love that so much. I pictured High Elves being near the sea sorta kind of like Kul'Tiras - where it was said before that High Elves were a part of.

So it's all very fitting

Kval'dorei!

[Strippling]

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Hell yeah! (Please let them be Paladins)

Comments like this (and many others similar to it) suggest that the pro-high elf rallies were more founded upon 'pushing to get the pretty light skinned elf model on the alliance...oh and who can also be a paladin', rather than their claims of 'it's not about the model, it's about the lore'. Lorewise high elfs were not paladins...

I don't see an issue with high elfs per se, but I do see an issue when people have been blindly willing to blur the faction lines (even though WoW is and always will be heavily focused around two opposing factions) just so they can have their coveted thalassian model on the blue side... whilst hiding behind the pretense of 'it's about muh lore'. If it's about the lore, then why is story progression for NPC high elfs not sufficient??

I understand some may not see an issue with requesting to play the light skinned thalassian model on alliance, but unfortunately to others this would detract from their faction identity (which you know... is a core aspect of this franchise). Although you or some others may not care about faction identity, I DO, many others do and Blizzard does too. So when you feel 'berated' because people like Obelisk express their views on the matter, please realise that your 'innocent' request is actually coming at the potential expense of others who value faction pride.

[Lumineus]

Lorewise high elfs were not paladins...

Uh, you might want to do further research before basing your entire finger-wagging post on such an audacious claim as this.

[Sigxy]

And what about wanting people with all kind of opinions but without goddamn biases and clear anger about the thread?

The problem with this is that we all have different opinions on things. And given how this is the -ONLY- thread we can discuss High Elves in, you have to accept the fact that we're going to get both Pro-High Elves and Anti-High Elves. Some people just don't want a high elf race of it's own.

And there's anger from both sides, believe me. Not to mention that while I'm against the idea of High Elves as their own playable race, even I am not too fond of people coming in and say something rude, saying high elves won't be a thing, and just telling people to get over it.

Yet whenever people bring up good reasons, like Obelisk, I'm happy about it because he can actually bring in a discussion about stuff.

That's exactly how it works. Someone who was confident that "High Elves would never be" from Ion's response would typically go: Finally he said it. It's done.

Then continue about their days not wasting time trying to still "convince others" it won't ever happen.

What Obelisk is doing is nothing other than trying to stamp out the discussion/people's hopes. He wants those who still strive for High Elves to be playable to stop wishing it so, he wants them to feel utterly defeated by Ion's statement. Which is why he has to keep trying to rub it in.

This isn't anything new, the moderators of this thread have even come in here and stated so that people who make comments such as this thread shouldn't be alive anymore or the constant berating of others needs to stop.

I'm not going to say the berating doesn't happen on both sides, so try not to focus on that too much.

The people who are still here discussing possibility of High Elves or come to leave comments hoping still that one day they are playable are doing just that, making their request still known EVEN WITH Ion's response.

It's not like the people who wish for High Elves are ignoring Ion's response. Some are saying he's incorrect, to say that means to acknowledge it in the first place.

Yet Obelisk and a few others like to hide behind that the people who are asking for High Elves are in "denial". Denial would be never acknowledging Ion's response in the first place.

But this is just a smokescreen to veil the blatant attempt and trying to end the discussion on High Elves, that's truly what he and a few others wish.

Because why else would people need to be "constantly reminded" about Ion's response when they are making their comments from acknowledging Ion's response.

That's exactly how it works and you know this as well yet try to feign ignorance and strawman me by saying I only want 100% pro HEs. When there are posters here that don't come with the sole purpose of stamping out hope/hating on the thread for existing yet still disagree with the notion of playable Alliance High Elves.

It's not about speaking against thoughts, it's about berating those that have a different opinion which certain anti-helf posters seem to do.

Again the mods of this website and thread have even acknowledged that this is going on in this thread so nice try.

As I said above - This is the -ONLY- thread where we can discuss High Elves now because people kept spamming the forums with different High Elf threads over and over. People are allowed to come here and say whatever they want. And they can repeat whatever people say because pro-high elves tend to keep repeating themselves too.

The reason people prefer to listen to people like Obelisk - someone I like to listen to - is that they brings up a lot of good points. I'm the type that prefers to see facts and I'm sorry to say, he has brought up a LOT more facts about them than the pro-High Elves. I'm fairly sure I even asked you the other week that, since you said High Elves would bring in a -lot of money- for Blizzard, I would like to see proof of any single race that is the cause for Blizzard getting a -lot of money-. Because I believe it's always been the gameplay content that has provided the money and the races are just a flavour. You never came back to me on that.

Honestly, this is the -ONLY- thing I've been gathering from Pro-High Elves, with VERY FEW exceptions (and I appreciate them for being more original): "We want WHITE, PRETTY Elves on the non-savage sage. Void Elves will not do because they are NOT WHITE." You don't care about the Lore. You don't care about what's really going on. You want to play an elf that looks pretty on Alliance.

And with that said; that's your opinion and I am actually fine with it. And what I said is my opinion which I am allowed to say on a public forum, especially on the ONLY High Elf thread allowed to exist here.

[Strippling]

Uh, you might want to do further research before basing your entire finger-wagging post on such an audacious claim as this.

Care to enlighten me on the history of high elf paladins? Mr pretentious

Also, I recommend you read my post again to understand what it is based on. I'd also recommend you read things properly before responding to quotes.

[Obelisk Kai]

But you have to deal with it, stop using points that got already debunked, it's nonsensical that you repeat a hundred times things that does not provide any point at all.

HE are still possible, you like it or not, but please don't try to do as you have the only truth based on your desires, there's nothing pointing to HE being added or denied forever.

Simply, deal, with, it.

I see no points that have been debunked.

Your standard tactic is to counter in game sources or word of god from the developers with your biased opinion and then expect me to concede the point on the basis that your biased opinion has more weight than in game sources or word of god. I am not going to do that.

If you want to debunk my points, rather than simply saying you think they are wrong before embarking on an unearned victory lap, provide meaningful evidence proving it to be so.

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He is not, that's for sure, it's impossible that someone makes those claims with a straight face.

I can assure you I believe absolutely what I post. Because unlike your position, I can provide evidence to back up my assertions.

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Also, Blizzard has stated point blank that half elves like all half races are rare ... so High Elves aren't likely interbreeding with Humans.

Half breed races are rare. But just because they are rare does not mean that the majority of the tiny number of Alliance High Elves are not interbreeding with Humans.

Elisande made the dig at the High Elves that they were mingling their blood after all.

Ion pointed out in the first interview that they are assimilating into their host societies (not going out of their way to create a brand new culture for the sake of it as some in this thread wish to believe). This agrees with what Elisande said.

The logical conclusion is that the incredibly small number of High Elves are open to relations with Humans that will result in the birth of new Half Elves...but because there are so few Alliance High Elves to begin with the resulting Half Elf population is still going to be tiny and rare too.

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Care to enlighten me on the history of high elf paladins? Mr pretentious

Also, I recommend you read my post again to understand what it is based on. I'd also recommend you read things properly before responding to quotes.

The first Paladins on Azeroth were the Knights of the Silver Hand, created to serve the Alliance during the Second War by Archbishop Alonsus Faol when he was still breathing.

The first Paladins were mostly Humans. In fact the only High Elven (now Blood Elven) Paladin I can find evidence for is Mehlar Dawnblade

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mehlar_Dawnblade

He was a student of Uther's. Mehlar is proof that some High Elves WERE Paladins during the Second War era, at least one.

If we reason that any remaining High Elf Paladins would likely show up on the isle of thunder with the Silver Covenant, the last group of organised High Elves on the planet, I checked the isle of thunder npc page on wowhead.

Of the wandering Silver Covenant NPCs I found the Silver Covenant Captains who use warrior abilities, and the Silver Covenant Spellblades who use mage themed melee attacks such as a moon slash that deals arcane damage.

There are no Silver Covenant Paladins present on the Isle of Thunder, suggesting a lack of High Elf Paladins in the modern era.

In game I can only think of the Dalaran Paladin class trainer Rulean Lightsreap...who was replaced by the Draenei Varlean in the Legion version. If there are others it would be nice to know.

[Lumineus]

Care to enlighten me on the history of high elf paladins? Mr pretentious

Also, I recommend you read my post again to understand what it is based on. I'd also recommend you read things properly before responding to quotes.

Oh, so you want me to do your legwork for you too?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mehlar_Dawnblade now a Blood Elf, but backstory identifies him as a founding member of the Silver Hand
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Thalorien_Dawnseeker - pre Scourging, Paladin armor, mana bar (and in fact it's known that most of the https://wow.gamepedia.com/Royal_Guard_(Quel'Thalas) survivors became Blood Knights) yeah he has Warrior skills; so did Bolvar when he was regent of Stormwind
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Rulen_Lightsreap clearly was never a blood elf
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Champion_Isimode this guy is a joke character, but frankly, so was Zen'kiki and he was the first and only named Darkspear Troll Druid
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Caladis_Brightspear I've heard it said this guy is maybe a hunter but note that his brother, first name unknown, who appears at the lodge in Legion does NOT have a mana bar

And before you say "that's only five guys!" keep in mind that it only took one (Zen'kiki/Nathanos) to approve Troll Druids and UD Hunters, and frankly, Zen'kiki was ex post facto in addition to being comic relief.

I did read your post up until that point, unfortunately I couldn't let your coloring of LITERALLY EVERYONE requesting this based on faulty logic go unanswered, don't talk about the lore if you don't know what the lore is!

Parrots "pretty light skinned elves!" (clearly not dogwhistling or anything, kek) yet calls me pretentious! Projecting much? Never mind that void elves have 4/6 obnoxiously light skin tones, to the point where they're so white you can only tell them apart if they take off their gloves, and are pretty/have better beards, so clearly that's NOT the point.

I wasn't inclined to read the rest of it, and I see you align with that serial misanthrope Obelisk, so I'm going to write you off based on that alone. Your faction identity? Your faction pride? Funny how you didn't give two shits how Blizz stepped on our faction identity in 2006 and our faction pride in 2011. And from what I can see, BfA is shaping up to double down.

[Deleted]

@JdRobespierre I think it's like how @Darththeo mentions it, surviving High Elves being too diverse for any group to represent em.

And game developers job is to see chances in such situation, not only obstacles. And so I'm staying critical about this statement.

I say, that this pushes High Elves into further likeness with the Mag'har Orcs. Those are Orcs that have no specific cultural variation from the existing green Orcs, heck from a recent interview Blizzard even said the point of making Mag'har into Orc Clans is because with armor on they would look too similar to current existing Orcs. Thus came born the idea that they'll vary up the skins with different colors and tattoo textures.

High Elves could then follow suit and become an amalgamation of various High Elf groups brought together. That's been touted already as one of their potential recruitment scenarios. Gather all the diaspora High Elves and bring them collectively together under one banner (just like Mag'har Orcs have done). "Stand as One!" as Anduin says (see this stuff just writes itself).

Also, I don't see why it really matters in the first place that the Alliance High Elves have become dispersed so much that none of the groups are large enough to say what High Elves are. Sounds like Humans to me! And what happened when Blizzard added Stormwind Humans? Those were the generic humans. What happened when Gilneans released? They made em British and Werewolf-y. What happened when Kul'Tiras was released? They made them burly sea-monster hunters.

Each different form of Humans were created to be diverse because Blizzard willed it so. That's really the bottom line here. They can, if they wish to, make High Elves more diverse from Blood Elves. They have enough material to work with as evidenced by the ideas in this thread and elsewhere.

Or alternatively, as I suggested - some of this groups can be written as seeds of the pillars of the new society.

Argument about assimilation sounds rather poor to me too - history knows example of cultures, that survived hundreds of years without home - in occupation, annexation, diaspora etc. There is no reason for devs to hurry up with that assimilation so much.

"No, we do not drink blood--that's the San'layn. Totally different emo elf." - that's just a joke.

Unfortunately - current design of Void Elves is not to serious. Either they will do in the near future something that will allow them to move to the positions of real dark elves - for example start a war, or they will remain a joke. Anyway, any tries of making them acceptable for High Elves fans do not serve them well, as they do not serve well Blood Elves.

Right now what you're asking for, is that you want 100% pro high-elves on this thread and people are not allowed to speak against your thoughts.

Of course they can. However judging this situation strongly depends of how we see how this topic could look like - it could be for example based on sharing ideas of what High Elves actually are, and what they could become, thus - quite helpful in understanding what High Elf fans actually want. Or it might be also time to time place of fair sharing doubts and searching for field for a compromise - which is always easier, when two sides listen to each other. But it could also be a eternal battlefield, and source of insults, where two sides just sit in to sit in trenches, and throw the same, and same arguments for thousand time again. And unfortunately there are people who openly admit, they are on crusade here - just to ensure no place of sharing ideas will exist, and no one will be satisfied.

There are for example threads where people share fan made concepts of Botani as a race. Or Ogres. Ogres are better example, cause we can see examples of some disagreements there - if Ogres shall be muscular, based on Cho'Ghal appearance? More practical, and for sure - more appealing to new players? Or should they stay as they are now in game, and in lore? I have not seen anyone pull out the hardest artillery of destroying game, and lore, about unjustified changes in appearance or anything similar, after suggestions to slim down the Ogres. No one seem to have problem in understanding, that it is practical decision about game in first place, so it should be evaluated in terms of whether it is required and necessary, and all in game explanations are secondary.

Same is with implementation of classic elves to Alliance. Stories about them finding new settlements, new practices, do not have to already exist in game, as they could be introduced in every moment. Thing is - what kind of stories? In what points of game world and game lore they shall be rooted, to avoid being such miss like Void Elves? Cause clearly Blizzard's level of expectation analysis preceding the decision of "giving something like a Blood Elf to the Alliance" was not deep enough to solve the case for this time, and further searchings are rather needed.

Void Elves will not do because they are NOT WHITE.

I personally stated, that It would be much harder to criticize Blizzards deep love to purple and blue elves, if such appearance was given to Storm Elves, as continuation of High Elves story. It was however decided otherwise. Void Elves are not, because they fall in to category of dark elf, and trying to address High Elves fans from such position makes them really indigestible hybrid.

But yes - classical elves are usually rather white to bronze, when it comes to skin color, not purple or orange. Less often, gold or green. But it is also usually dark elves, who can be white in a completely literal sense.

Thread should be imho renamed as "Official High Elf And/Or Classical Elf for Alliance Discussion Megathread" - to highlight it's more creative, problem-dealing side, and mute the aspects related to simple conflict.