Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Evilfish]

What about the fact that I don't care about Void Elves and your concerns that you have listed, really?

It's not really about how much you care apparently and it's more about justification which waved bye-bye to Helfs when Velfs were added. So no, there's no hope for Helfs no matter how much you care.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just reposting Ercarp's gallery of his high elven concepts, because these are just too good. https://imgur.com/a/QqsR8Hj

Holy snapss, I never saw that Priest one before.



And my favorite one:



Blood Elves will never reach this level of tattoos/feathers for their appearances.

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It's not really about how much you care apparently and it's more about justification which waved bye-bye to Helfs when Velfs were added. So no, there's no hope for Helfs no matter how much you care.

I'd say it's equally futile to attempt to stop people from talking about it. People will continue to request till WoW isn't a thing anymore I bet. High Elves still continue to be the most requested playable race, despite the existence of Void Elves. They haven't lost their standing.

Whether it actually comes to fruition is another case entirely.

[Evilfish]

Oh I don't think they are the most requested. I think people get that idea cause there's been a long cry about it and because the helf "community" (a few people actually) make a lot of noise.

[Andromedes]

This comment is somewhat nonsensical as it ignores the lore difference between Mag'har and ordinary Orcs, namely that the playable Orcs are corrupted by having drunk the demon's blood, and Mag'har Orcs are uncorrupted Orcs from an alternate timeline.
The lore rationale is that the Clan based structure of Orc society has heavily atrophied on Azeroth, due to being a part of a Horde designed to overcome those boundaries and in the concentration camps.
The Mag'har, who never went through that experience, have a much stronger clan structure which is why anyone who really wants to play a Blackrock Orc would be better served going Mag'har Orc than Green Orc. The tattoos and such are representative of that.

I get that now, fel corruption removes your tattoos and changes your hairstyle. In fact, even Kilrogg gained one more decorative skull on his beard.

We know what High Elves are and we know what their identity is. It is represented by the Blood Elves, the true (and confirmed) High Elves of Warcraft. The Alliance High Elves, who name Veressa a Ranger-General of their Farstrider copycat organization, who still undertake Sunwell pilgrimages, who still title their Mages 'Magister' show no signs of creating a new culture anyway. It's a pro High Elven attempt at differentiation that is doomed to failure. Particularly when the Alliance High Elves do show signs of cultural deviation, it is not in creating something unique but in aping their human hosts. Which is what Elisande told them if I recall.

I dont recall dark iron dwarves having flaming hair and beards, i dont recall Kul Tirans being half giants.. Why do they look like that? It wasnt represented ingame until BfA. Why sudden change?

[FlubberPuddy]

I get that now, fel corruption removes your tattoos and changes your hairstyle. In fact, even Kilrogg gained one more decorative skull on his beard.

Which also means Blood Elves won't get tattoos that they say should be theirs then since they have some fel corruption in em too

[RangerDaz]

Just reposting Ercarp's gallery of his high elven concepts, because these are just too good. https://imgur.com/a/QqsR8Hj

They are amazing!!

[Obelisk Kai]

I get that now, fel corruption removes your tattoos and changes your hairstyle. In fact, even Kilrogg gained one more decorative skull on his beard.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned they were driven into a collectivizing Horde that minimized those differences and then they were imprisoned for the better part of two decades in Concentration Camps? A lot of the diversity of the Orcs was 'sanded down' by these experiences, with clan becoming increasingly vestigial because Orcs no longer tattoo themselves or maintain many of the rituals we know were associated with each clan. They even lost contact with the elements and had to relearn shamanism. The Frostwolves and the Warsong alone maintained some vestige of what they had lost.

The Mag'har Orcs Iron Horde did not do this, it was a collective where each clan had it's own Warlord and it's own defined territory with Grom as the Warchief. It was not a puppet for the Shadow Council or the Legion. The Mag'har therefore did not go through the process that broke down old Orc civilization.

To compare the utterly different trajectories the Mag'har Orcs and the normal Orcs have travelled in an attempt to draw yet another false equivalence between High Elves and Blood Elves is disingenuous. No amount of words or concept art can change the fact that the Alliance High Elves and the Blood Elves are divided solely by politics. High Elves wouldn't even qualify as an Allied Race if the Horde was asking for them, they are identical to Blood Elves. As an Allied race for the Alliance they are an impossible leap.

I dont recall dark iron dwarves having flaming hair and beards, i dont recall Kul Tirans being half giants.. Why do they look like that? It wasnt represented ingame until BfA. Why sudden change?

Dark Iron Dwarves always had different skin tones and always had a different vibe to ordinary Dwarves, a steampunk vibe. They have been enhanced upon being made playable, not reinvented. And the half Giant Kul Tirans were not seen in Durotar because they hadn't been invented yet.

High Elves on the other hand are a known quantity. We have seen them. They are around, now. Both in that they are Blood Elves, confirmed by Blizzard and among the Alliance subset who live primarily in Dalaran. Both groups are clearly identical, divided by politics, and that is the point of the Alliance High Elf story. They cannot be reinvented as we know what a High Elf is.

[Andromedes]

Dark Iron Dwarves always had different skin tones and always had a different vibe to ordinary Dwarves, a steampunk vibe. They have been enhanced upon being made playable, not reinvented. And the half Giant Kul Tirans were not seen in Durotar because they hadn't been invented yet.

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

[Deleted]

It's not really about how much you care apparently and it's more about justification which waved bye-bye to Helfs when Velfs were added. So no, there's no hope for Helfs no matter how much you care.

It is about how much I care about these things because whether I ask for High Elves now or not depends entirely on that.

[Evilfish]

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

I think you should get past the appearance cause it's not about that. Sure they could give Helfs longer ears or slimmer arms, but in the end, it's still belfs with different political ideologies. But hey, if you did get past the appearance you wouldn't be posting here, would you? You'd be playing your Velf in sweet silence.

[FlubberPuddy]

You'd be playing your Velf in sweet silence.

Not so, no one who wanted Alliance loyal High Elves was looking to play Silvermoon Exiled Blood Elves. Which arguably is 95% of High Elf fans I'd bet.

[Deleted]

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

As I've said before, Obelisk Kai doesn't argue in a genuine way, he simply generates arguments against High Elves and posts them, regardless if he believes in them himself or not.

[Obelisk Kai]

Nice dodge of my question. W H Y S U D D E N C H A N G E?
Also i dont get why you lecture me with lore, when i simply ask, why fel corrupted orc has different hair.

As i see it. Obelisk Kai is fine with every appearance retcon, unless it is for High elves. White shattered hand orc? Fine. Half giant kul tirans? Fine. Glowing hair and beard on Dark irons? Fine. Braided hair with feathers on High elves? GTFO

What you want is an admission that because they dolled up Dark Iron Dwarves or invented Kul Tirans, they could do the same for High Elves.

You are not going to get that.

White Shattered Hand Orcs became green Orcs in our timeline, but not in the AU Draenor playable ones come from.

Dark Iron Dwarves were separated from other Dwarf clans centuries ago, lived under a mountain, were enslaved by Fire elementals developed their own steampunk vibe and when made playable received some extra customization options.

Kul Tirans were pretty much isolated on their own continent, we have only met a small garrison in Durotar and when we meet them in their home it turns out a few are much bigger than normal.

All of the above have perfectly rational explanations for the differences. Often accompanied by a traumatic event that induced physical changes or centuries or millenia of separation or sometimes both.

But you want to believe that a tiny group that has been separate for a mere ten years and whose only difference from the main group is their political opinion is worthy of a similar level of treatment? That's on you.

I use the lore because it is the in game explanation.

You want the out of game explanation? Blood Elves are High Elves, Blizzard took a look, determined High Elves would be as redundant as another option for green Orcs and created a Void Elf substitute that just happens to have been the most successful Allied Race by a country mile, validating their choice.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

So are we going to pretend that the Alliance didn't betray the High Elves in their hour of need?

When people show you who they really are...

believe them!

[Andromedes]

So are we going to pretend that the Alliance didn't betray the High Elves in their hour of need?

Source on that?

Dark Iron Dwarves were separated from other Dwarf clans centuries ago, lived under a mountain, were enslaved by Fire elementals developed their own steampunk vibe and when made playable received some extra customization options.

Thank you, that is all i wanted to hear.

[Obelisk Kai]

Thank you, that is all i wanted to hear.

I noticed you removed all the context from my answer and literally highlighted a single snippet, taken out of context, as some kind of admission.

It is nothing of the sort. If you want to be so selective about the commentary you accept and use it as some kind of validation, that is on you. But it seems a lot of pro High Elfers tend to do this and then play the martyr when, yet again, High Elves for the Alliance are not coming.

This happened when they got an occasional blue post extended a forum cap, or Muffinus made a joke, or a Blizzard employee in a private capacity supported High Elves. Can't see the forest for the one tree you happen to like.

The Dark Iron Dwarves whom my answer there was about received extra customization in line with a culture established via the lore. The flaming beards for example reflect their association with Fire elementals.

They are SPECIFICALLY not analogous to High Elves.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Source on that?



Thank you, that is all i wanted to hear.

Source: WC3

[baskev]

You get our most popular race we get yours
Would settle for nathanos humans

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/

So high elves to get nathanos style forsaken....fair deal. Would not be against it.

But as they have ressed celia menthil and they redid uther's grave etc...i think we rather be seeing nathaons/ celia style "undead" for the alliance. Witch i find cool, but i think its not fair for the forsaken players in the horde.

[Andromedes]

Source: WC3

Hmm. Now that i think of it. Yeah. It is werid, that Forsaken of Lordaeron dont get shit for not helping Quel'Thalas. They should totally not be in the same faction together. How dare they not help quel thalas, when they are already dead. /s

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Hmm. Now that i think of it. Yeah. It is werid, that Forsaken of Lordaeron dont get shit for not helping Quel'Thalas. They should totally not be in the same faction together.

Is this the same forsaken that is led by a Blood Elf and comprised partially of undead Blood Elves?