Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Asotcha]

Wow this diarrhea fest is still going on?

Stunning, isn't it? For quite awhile it slowed to a crawl, but then when they announced that blood elves would be getting heritage armor and the quest would involve an ingame thing of Arthas attacking Silvermoon etc, they started to ramp back up again. There's another thread on General Discussion about it, but I haven't noticed them start to derail other threads badly like before; or if they are, I simply haven't noticed or the mods are on-point in cleaning up.

If memory serves, page 117 of this thread is when the latest 'no' answer came from Ion's QnA about it, so when this thread reaches 417, we will have 300 pages of 'he just leads the game, what does he know? gimme helves.'

[Andromedes]

I have no offense against Undead/San'layn Elves, merely pointing out the hypocrisy among those who use the same reasonings to say Undead Elves are okay, but then High Elves are not.

I have no offense against getting more different Allied Races too, bring on more options.

I just believe that Alliance High Elves deserve a chance to be playable, and currently they are not.

Indeed, most of the HElf fans have no sharing issues. Horde wants nathanos style humans? No problem if that makes sense storywise. Wanna Alterac humans? Sure thing. But we havent seen any indication since WC2, that horde is allied with remnants of Alterac.

Well i agree, in general, that argument have always been weird, and even though i care little for the HEs, i always wondered... why not make just a different model for them?, people always says "but they are the same races a BE, why would they look different?!"

My answer:

We got different human models (Look Varian compared to other humans, or Anduin, or Old Tirisfal humans, etc...) they are all the same race, and have different looks, and by looks is just the model, may it just change the way they stand and some of their animation and add them tatoos Alleria style, and DONE!

Also we had the same happen with some other races (Orcs with Garrosh, Thrall and the normal playable model)

Dont forget fat and skinny humans from kul tiras. Are they no longer humans, because they are standing differently and have different body proportions?

And before someone comes with "that visual change you ask for, came in form of void elves and you still arent happy" Maybe because void elves dont represent anything high elves do. Void elves are more like your precious blood elf, than the high elf we ask for since vanilla.

[Evilfish]

Let it go dude, it's pretty clear you can't control yourself from getting the last word and are now just replying with nothing that adds to the overall discussion of the thread, nor to your hypocritical argument.

I could reply "Yes, also much less pathetic than you still repeating they won't be after Ion" and we could continue this wasteful back and forth.

So this is my last piece with you and then you can of course reply to it in your typical condescending non-relevant manner and continue on your merry way. Have a good day!

Right. Another Helf enthusiast just ignores 80% of the discussion and jumps up about how he won the debate.

And here we go with the same shit you fellas excel at. Mental gymnastics and ignorance. You are aware that comparting brown orcs and dark dwarves with Helfs is not correct since there's that faction difference. The fact that they added to the same faction a different "race" that is more or less the same with the original races belonging to the respective faction does not justify Helfs and it does not mean they couldn't add another race that follows the same pattern, namely being kept within the original faction and being different enough to count as a different race.

Let's take the stupid undead elves since you got all worked up about them. They would count as a new race as much as the brown orcs and dark dwarfs because they are, you know, undead and not sun worshipping or void worshipping elves. So in that respect, they are, at least in part, original something that does not go for your elves and that is the point. So when I told you that Ion pointed out you could choose to play an elf in the Alliance or the Horde that's what I meant. There is that choice and unlike the orcs and the dwarves and all known allied races who cannot jump across factions, that is exclusive to elves so your moronic excuse makes no sense and your logic is non-existent.

But once again you have stayed true to the Helf Fan, ignored arguments or rather large parts of the discussions and declared yourself victorious and ran off. That's why no one can take you seriously and that's why you won't ever change anyone's mind with your attitude.

[Deleted]

The point being a few pouty, vocal people being unable to get past skin color.

In that post you did not talk just about skin colour.

And no, I'm not afraid Blizzard will give in. They "gave in" when they gave you Velfs, giving you Helfs is just moronic right now, especially the way some of you ask for them. Twist and turn it you your head as much as you want to, I don't know, be able to live with yourself. The fact is what you want has come under the form of the void elf. It's over.

First of all, Blizzard didn't give at least me anything. There is absolutely nothing in Void Elves that I wanted. Secondly, it doesn't change the fact that you constantly cry about people asking for HE as if something depends on it. So, what's the reason of you doing it?

No, how you interpret it is your problem and let's be honest, during our discussion your interpretation is all over the place, like for example your following line. I would imagine you were deliberately misinterpreting if I didn't know who I was talking to. How the fuck would I not believe velfs exist when I used them in my arguments several times. Like I said, you take my words and twist them in your head.

So, I've used a very obvious low effort sarcasm to disprove your point that BE are the sole successors of Thalassian history. But wow, you actually took it seriously. Well, if you take everything I say at face value, can you please give me your WoW account details? I am a Blizzard employee and and it was found that your account was affected by a bug that needs to be fixed. True story. Trust me.

Your last line is so stupid I honestly have no wish to reply to it.

No, please do

[baskev]

All NPS are in the Model Viewer, unless they are new and it needs to be updated, or there’s a bug that didn’t include them, in which case, it can be reported and fixed. Nathanos and Gallywix are in the Model Viewer.

This whole discussion started because you said there’s a distinction between the two based on hair color and skin tone. However, if BE’s also have the same skin tone and hair colors available, that’s not a true distinction. Only thing, as of now, that’s a physical distinction, is the eye color.

first part i stand corrected. was thinking of dressing room...my bad.

And second part...blizzard made that distinction very clear in suramar city patch. I even linked it to you. You clearly see the difference there. Yes some might have ( and option for) lighter skin. But blizzard clearly showed that there are more differences.
So it really shows that ingame their is a difference. Your or mine does not matter. INGAME it has been shown that blizzard sepperates them with more then just eye color.

[Deleted]

I'm pro High Elf, because I would like to play in groups where not every second character is a blood elf.

[Voltsmasher]

Can we just have no more elves... I mean honestly I wish BE wasn't even horde. I don't mind high elf concept but the elf population in WoW is hitting critical mass. No wonder Darnassus had to be burnt to the ground and all their lore ruined. This is blizzards elf control policy at work I guess.

[RangerDaz]

I am confident that in the next expansion (Shadowlands probably) at least one of two things will happen (or both!):

- Silver Covenant High Elves for the Alliance and Undead Elves (San'layn? Dark Rangers? Other Undead Elves?) will become playable Allied Races.
- Dark Rangers will become a Hero Class, with void and necromancy as their two magical arrows' ranged specs. We already have undead blood elves and night elves. Troll shadow hunters could merge with this hero class as well.

Fingers crossed

- - - Updated - - -

Can we just have no more elves... I mean honestly I wish BE wasn't even horde. I don't mind high elf concept but the elf population in WoW is hitting critical mass. No wonder Darnassus had to be burnt to the ground and all their lore ruined. This is blizzards elf control policy at work I guess.

nope We just can't get enough of world of elvencraft!

Gotta catch'em all

[Voltsmasher]

I am confident that in the next expansion (Shadowlands probably) at least one of two things will happen (or both!):

- Silver Covenant High Elves for the Alliance and Undead Elves (San'layn? Dark Rangers? Other Undead Elves?) will become playable Allied Races.
- Dark Rangers will become a Hero Class, with void and necromancy as their two magical arrows' ranged specs. We already have undead blood elves and night elves. Troll shadow hunters could merge with thos hero class as well.

Fingers crossed

- - - Updated - - -



nope We just can't get enough of world of elvencraft!

Gotta catch'em all

This is kinda off topic so forgive me but I would rather them do tinkers than dark ranger. Look at the gnome themed team for island expeditions each gnome is basically a potential tinker spec. plus they pushed gnome story alot and I don't see how you make ranger without destroying mm Hunter and lastly back on topic no more reasons for any more elves please

[RangerDaz]

This is kinda off topic so forgive me but I would rather them do tinkers than dark ranger. Look at the gnome themed team for island expeditions each gnome is basically a potential tinker spec. plus they pushed gnome story alot and I don't see how you make ranger without destroying mm Hunter and lastly back on topic no more reasons for any more elves please

I also agree with the Tinker Class. I have a feeling the next expansion will be the Hero Class expansion, as this one was the allied race one.

Both DKs and DHs had no love in Battle for Azeroth. Maybe Blizzard wants to give them some love in the next expansion as well, while adding other hero class(es)? I have a strong feeling both Tinker and Dark Ranger will be BOTH added.

While it isn't natural for two classes to be added at the same time in WoW, well, Allied Races was also a new concept. Both Dark Rangers and Tinkers have been asked for ages, and both are having quite a development in BfA: Makkatorque vs. Gallywix boss fight in Zuldazar raid, and Sylvanas Dark Rangers in the war campaign and rising undead night elf dark rangers in the warfront.


And Dark Ranger won't ruin Marksmanship. Dark Rangers use magic and arrows, while Marksmans use arrows/bullets and no magic... and pet.
Dark Rangers are magically enhanced and spooky marksmanship hunters, we could say.

Tinkers and Dark Rangers will appear in WoW somehow. I have a good feeling about both of them

[Evilfish]

I am confident that in the next expansion (Shadowlands probably) at least one of two things will happen (or both!):

- Silver Covenant High Elves for the Alliance and Undead Elves (San'layn? Dark Rangers? Other Undead Elves?) will become playable Allied Races.
- Dark Rangers will become a Hero Class, with void and necromancy as their two magical arrows' ranged specs. We already have undead blood elves and night elves. Troll shadow hunters could merge with this hero class as well.

Fingers crossed

- - - Updated - - -



nope We just can't get enough of world of elvencraft!

Gotta catch'em all

While San'layn are a possibility, a real slim one and really unlikely in the near future, I think, the Helfs are not for sure. I'm not gonna quote Ion, but you know what I mean.

[RangerDaz]

While San'layn are a possibility, a real slim one and really unlikely in the near future, I think, the Helfs are not for sure. I'm not gonna quote Ion, but you know what I mean.

Yes I remember his speech, and he said that they wouldn't come in BfA, which honestly was kind of obvious, considering they just implemented Void Elves. He also said that the future was open, and that is why i say that they are a good possibility for the next expansion.

[Evilfish]

Yes I remember his speech, and he said that they wouldn't come in BfA, which honestly was kind of obvious, considering they just implemented Void Elves. He also said that the future was open, and that is why i say that they are a good possibility for the next expansion.

They are not, not after void elves. Game over.

You got choices on both factions now and you can pick one, that's what Ion told you. I didn't see him winking when he said that. Anything beyond this is unreasonable.

[RangerDaz]

They are not, not after void elves. Game over.

You got choices on both factions now and you can pick one, that's what Ion told you. I didn't see him winking when he said that. Anything beyond this is unreasonable.

Well, the future is quite unpredictable. They said for years that Vanilla WoW would never be released again, and here it is now.
He clearly said the future was opened, so it is a possibility. As considering they have a huge fanbase waiting for them, i think it has a good chance to become playable at some point.

[BTHSE]

Well, the future is quite unpredictable. They said for years that Vanilla WoW would never be released again, and here it is now.
He clearly said the future was opened, so it is a possibility. As considering they have a huge fanbase waiting for them, i think it has a good chance to become playable at some point.

Did they ever say that Vanilla would never happen? I only remember them saying that new infrastructure made it complicated and not something they wanted to be focusing on. Not that they were ruling it out altogether.

[FlubberPuddy]

Did they ever say that Vanilla would never happen? I only remember them saying that new infrastructure made it complicated and not something they wanted to be focusing on. Not that they were ruling it out altogether.

Go watch the question being asked at Blizzcon, the "you think you do but you dont" by J Allen Brack. The first word out of his mouth is "No"

[BTHSE]

Go watch the question being asked at Blizzcon, the "you think you do but you dont" by J Allen Brack. The first word out of his mouth is "No"

Here saved you a search:

Thanks, I did try to look it up but I didn't know what keywords to search for since the ones I thought of only brought up current Classic wow news and announcements.

[Obelisk Kai]

Thanks, I did try to look it up but I didn't know what keywords to search for since the ones I thought of only brought up current Classic wow news and announcements.

The parallel with the initial refusal to grant classic would be more pertinent if there was a group in the classic community hellbent on getting the 1.2 version of the game. Who campaigned, begged and pleaded with Blizzard to give them 1.2 Classic. And when Classic was finally announced, the fact that it was the 1.12 version proved for them to be a deal-breaker.

This isn't what they wanted, they would say. This isn't what they were expecting. And so they resume the campaign, determined to press on for a 1.2 version of classic despite it being obvious to all and sundry that having granted a 1.12 version of classic that Blizzard would have gone through an internal deliberative process that led them to pick 1.12 over 1.2, that 1.12 was the answer to the request for classic, and they weren't going to create a 1.2 version for this sub-group. The 1.2 community would argue about the virtues of 1.2 or why 1.12 just doesn't work for them, but everyone would know the 1.12 iteration of classic was it.

In this metaphor, Void Elves are the answer to the request from the Alliance for thalassian elves. It is the product of an internal deliberative process that produced a result that best serves the game. That the Void Elves aren't the High Elves the High Elf community hoped for is immaterial, there is now a thalassian elf option on the Alliance.

And before anyone responds and tries to point out the imperfections in my metaphor, I would like to state that the comparison to J. Allen Brack's 'You think you do, but you don't' and their very public reversal years later is one I personally find ridiculous. Boiled down it's 'Blizzard caved on this, so they will cave on what we want'.
There is no proof this will be the case. Blizzard has taken many decisions over the years that people have been vehemently against and they've stuck to their guns and not backed down.

Classic's unveiling was the end point of a true mass movement in video gaming attempting to recapture a lost moment in time. While the pro High Elf community undoubtedly has the passion for their project, they lack the appeal. Everyone understands the nostalgia behind the WoW classic community's request. Even those games unfamiliar with WoW have seen the story and grasped it. The pro High Elf community lacks an easily communicable narrative, relying on an interpretation of lore that sees High Elves as a major Alliance race (that I believe to be incorrect, many other players believe to be incorrect and which Blizzard believes to be incorrect) that is appreciated only by very few and which will be incomprehensible to outsiders, even gamers.

Complicating this is the belief that High Elves are an 'oh shit' button that Blizzard will hammer the moment subs get too low with the number of race changes generating...and I quote...$$$. This has been repeated by pro High Elfers so often that it is apparently an article of faith. Which is of course, also easily disproved. Subs for the modern game are far, far lower than they were in the game's heyday. If High Elves were such an 'oh shit' button, that button would have been pushed a long time ago. It wasn't.

Void Elves, Blizzard's answer to playable thalassian elves on the Alliance, are currently the most popular Allied race by quite a bit based upon the evidence we as players have access too, while admittedly limited in terms of exact numbers. As Void Elves were created to be a thalassian elf to be used by the Alliance but which did not infringe on the identity of Horde Blood Elves (the actual and playable High Elves of the franchise) then Blizzard's internally would see Void Elves as a massive success that has already gotten them $$$. High Elves as an oh shit button proved completely unnecessary.

So long story short, if you want to imagine a future day where Ion comes out, does a mea culpa, and announces playable Alliance High Elves on stage a la J Allen Brack, you are completely free to do so. But trying to use it as some kind of debating point 'oh blizzard did this with that so they will it again for us' is a false equivalence.

[FlubberPuddy]

Blizzard has taken many decisions over the years that people have been vehemently against and they've stuck to their guns and not backed down.

They've also initially refused to allow many things into the game at one point and later allowed it: Transmog, Horde/Alliance on same server, Cross-faction BGs, Cross-faction chat (Through Pandaren, Void Elves/Blood Elves, DHs).

A recent one would be saying no Zandalari Druid Dinosaur forms and giving a drawn out BS reason for why not, then later on we see exclusive Zandalari Druid Dinosaur forms.

Point is, while there are certain things Blizzard have stuck to their guns with, they also have made many changes based on player requests as well. There is no definitive leaning towards either side for Blizzard on this, thus the reason that Classic WoW is brought up as comparison is because it's the most prominent case of Blizzard -definitively- saying "No" and yet a few years later having changed their mind.

Something which takes a much more massive effort than requesting an Alliance loyal race to become playable.

Void Elves, Blizzard's answer to playable thalassian elves on the Alliance, are currently the most popular Allied race by quite a bit based upon the evidence we as players have access too, while admittedly limited in terms of exact numbers. As Void Elves were created to be a thalassian elf to be used by the Alliance but which did not infringe on the identity of Horde Blood Elves (the actual and playable High Elves of the franchise) then Blizzard's internally would see Void Elves as a massive success that has already gotten them $$$. High Elves as an oh shit button proved completely unnecessary.

You could say it makes it unnecessary, or it just further proves that High Elves being added would be even more of a hit. If Void Elves are argued to be "the replacement for High Elves on Alliance" which indicates they are a substitute choice of the actual choice and they are successful, then that further reinforces that the actual choice would prove further success.

Game developers do this all time, they institute something related to a request and use it to gauge popularity of that particular request. Games like Nosgoth were made to see if there was still interest in the Legacy of Kain franchise, even though that game had nothing similar to Legacy of Kain games other than being in-universe with vampires vs humans.

There are probably tons of other examples of this, but this was the one that came off the top of my head. Anyway it's very common practice in the games industry, just as FF7 was made into so many ports while fans of it for years were asking for a PS3 remake of it because it was teased through a techinical demo by the company.

Game companies usually tend to take roundabout approaches to ideas, even when players have a clear indication of the idea they would like.

So long story short, if you want to imagine a future day where Ion comes out, does a mea culpa, and announces playable Alliance High Elves on stage a la J Allen Brack, you are completely free to do so. But trying to use it as some kind of debating point 'oh blizzard did this with that so they will it again for us' is a false equivalence.

Again, not really false equivalence if it's just one example of many where Blizzard initially was against something and then later changed their mind. It's not the first time they've done this, nor the 5th, and it definitely won't be the last. That's truly all it's meant to point out.

[FlubberPuddy]

EDIT TO THE DISCLAIMER: Video actually talks about High Elves, more info below!

DISCLAIMER: Not necessarily about High Elves, but I think it's something very important to point out about Blizzard's decisions in general and to have since it's probably the most recent, best example that even official Blizzard decisions can have internal disagreements, even among some of the bigger names in WoW development.

Blizzcon 2018 Lost Codex Interview: Alex Afrasiabi & Patrick Dawson - Story and Systems



Time: 14:47-17:10 For the whole context on why Kul'Tiran can't be Mages, but 15:52-16:50 is really the insight into design decisions I want to point out.

Alex: And this is just to show you that we're all passionate developers and we don't just come out like a bunch of automatons that are looking at the same thing and agreeing about the same thing. We all have our different opinions...but I can promise you that we will have the discussion...we don't do anything out of spite. We do things out of passion and love for the game. Even not allowing Kul'Tiran to be Mages. 'Dammit why?!'

Patrick: We really want to get it right and healthy disagreement is really how we iterate and just really come to the right answer.

Some players think that once a decision is made into the game that there still aren't disagreements about the implemented decision, this video is proof that even after a decision is made and implemented, not all designers/developers are necessarily 100% on board with it.

EDIT: Time for High Elves is 24:17-24:39

Question: Any future customization coming to Void Elves to bring them closer to High Elf fantasy? Through Skin color/Hair color change to "almost give the High Elf feeling"?

Alex: I'd say yes, there's always a chance. Don't give up hope! But just be respectful when you make your posts!