Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Vasaru]

And where are you taking that conclusion from, your ass?


Night Elves have been a staple in this franchise for decades, the third most played race only beaten by Blood Elves and Humans. Nightborne are the most played of allied races introduced so far. Granted, Void Elves might not have been embraced by some/many, but you can find people that enjoy them.


Should take your own advice and piss off of this thread, your interventions are the usual shit. Go sort yourself and get out of that "dark place", you still seem to be in it.

So rude. That's just insulting.

[kyoloco]

So rude. That's just insulting.

dont worry

high elves will come

they just need to lose enough subs

people said demon hunters would never happen for years

and...well WoD happened LOL

[Vasaru]

Fair enough we all go into dark places from time to time... yet instead of just apologizing for your abusive language, you're instead trying to defend your actions?

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I love how Alex asked high elf fans to keep their requests respectful... and here we are yet again with high elf fans putting down or downright abusing people who express a differing opinion. It's a valid opinion if people are elf fatigued, or are worried about blurring factions lines, or are worried about detracting from blood elf uniqueness.. yet high elf fans treat these people like they're trolls. And yet you want Blizz to take your requests seriously...

I was depressed for 10 years. That shit does stuff to your brain, mate.
No, I wasn't trying to defend my behaviour, just trying to explain myself. I see now that it went poorly.
I'm very sorry to everyone for what I've said in the past.

[Obelisk Kai]

dont worry

high elves will come

they just need to lose enough subs

people said demon hunters would never happen for years

and...well WoD happened LOL

What silly logic. If sub loss was going to be the catalyst for granting High Elves, they'd have granted High Elves years ago.

[Lumineus]

I love how Alex asked high elf fans to keep their requests respectful...

https://www.firesofheaven.org/thread...ok-at-wow.353/

I'm done playing ball with you useless fuckers... it's my turn.

Alex "Keep It Respectful" Afrasiabi.

[Deleted]

This is wrong, and the proof to refute it has been brought up in the thread many times but keeps getting ignored by those that wish the implication stayed. You can speak to Magister Umbric in BFA. As a Void Elf player he has additional dialogue for you. The additional Void Elf player unique dialogue is bolded.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=284450/...magic-spoilers



The last question in particular cements that all Void Elves playable are de-facto Silvermoon Blood Elves.

"Do you believe we have earned the Alliance's trust?" Alliance High Elves don't have to do that. Did Alleria have to? No. Neither would those who are already loyal to the Alliance.

"So long as Silvermoon stands with the Horde, there will be those who distrust us." Here clearly is another nod to Void Elves being strictly Silvermoon Blood Elves because who are those in Silvermoon that stand with the Horde? Blood Elves.

"But the Alliance are where our people belong." Our people, again referencing the now Horde Blood Elves, since High Elves have existed on the Alliance at the beginning of World of Warcraft.

High Elves turned Void Elves wouldn't warrant any of those responses because 1) They've been in the Alliance forever, 2) They haven't lived in Silvermoon for ages.

This broadcast text has yet to be refuted in terms of showing that it references both High Elves and Blood Elves. Therefore the conclusion that can be deduced is all Void Elves for the time being are Blood Elves.

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There is no reinvention of the wheel that has to take place. Merely following the precedent set forth by the Nightborne. AKA taking a thematic unexpressed in a larger society (Night Elf Mages) and blowing it up to be its own unique selection.

If what Obelisk was saying is true, then the likes of Wildhammer Dwarves which seems to be incoming at some point would not exist. Since the WH can be reduced to be "dwarves with blue tattoos" same as High Elves get reduced to "blood elves with blue eyes".

The best bet that one can hope for who never wishes to see High Elves become a thing is to hope that Blizzard doesn't add 3rd iterations of already playable races. With Wildhammer coming in at some point, that hope needs to shift to being implemented in a way that makes High Elves on Alliance unlikely of being implemented. A way which I cannot see happening.

Especially since the latest official word is that there is a chance of getting the feeling of a High Elf through Void Elf customization. Giving that opening allows for further discussion and iteration on how much that option would suffice vs being their own stand-alone AR. Or a possible different way that Blizzard hasn't yet shown us of how they can implement various races, as are being discussed with Wildhammer Dwarves.

Chronologically it works like this:

High Elves become a thing after they get expelled from the Night Elf homelands. They change because of the Sunwell. Time goes by.
High Elves get overrun by the Scourge. The Sunwell gets destroyed. They start to suffer withdrawal symptoms and have 2 solutions how to solve this problem.
The main body of the High Elf populace favors solution 1 and gets a new name to honour the fallen ones, and become Blood Elves. The remaining fringe part does not want to follow the main body and keeps the moniker High Elves, becoming exciles from their people. Blood Elves join the Horde. Time goes by.
While being in the Horde, Blood Elves get to restore the Sunwell, and even allow High Elves to visit it. High Elves still keep to themselves, though there is no reason to do this anymore, because the 2 alternative lifestyles are not relevant anymore, and Blood Elves are more or less purified from the Legion's influence.
Suddenly, Alleria comes along with her Void powers, just like some insane Blood Elves tinker with the void. Both are a great danger to the Sunwell, so they are denied the homeland of the Thalassian Elves. Also, they are changed by the void and become a separate racial entity.

So... the main storyline revolves around High Elves becoming Blood Elves, and a tiny faction of these becoming Void Elves. Alliance Elves are a relic of the past, nothing more.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You deciding on what would be a compromise and getting exactly what you wanted all along is not a compromise. Keep trying.

It's really like you struggle to understand.

I'm literally saying that compromise is a spectrum, hence, there are several possibilities, how is that "exactly" getting what I want? Seriously Evilfish, stop being a reactionary trigger and actually read dear lord.

[Evilfish]

It's really like you struggle to understand.

I'm literally saying that compromise is a spectrum, hence, there are several possibilities, how is that "exactly" getting what I want? Seriously Evilfish, stop being a reactionary trigger and actually read dear lord.

No, what you are doing is bullshitting your way around. I'll make sure to drop a reality check whenever you start letting your bullshit take the reigns.

For posterity:

Vodi Elves were a compromise.

High Elves are not a compromise.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

While I understand you and several others care about lore, I believe the evidence and feedback on the forums shows that more people care about aesthetics. Ion was clearly under the impression that aesthetics were the issue when he ruled out playable High Elves and you cannot argue he was mistaken to have that impression given the feedback Blizzard received. The best that can be argued is that he had an incomplete picture but I would argue he was not wrong.
There is a perception that what is really sought is a fair skinned, blue eyed, blonde haired elf and that it doesn't matter how this is achieved, as long as it is the end result. And the reason this perception exists is that, for a large number of people, it is true.

The reason I bring this up is not to belittle your attachment to the lore, but to illustrate how the pro High Elf movement maybe perceived outside of itself.

The problem is that you keep conflating the "pro-helf" movement as anyone who wants High Elves, when the motivations people have are different. Some want the lore, some the aesthetic, some a mix of both. And to blame it on one portion being louder instead of actually listening to what different people of the fanbase are saying is weasily, is just like taking the worst Pro HE argument and making representative of a whole.

It's disingenuous. My first issue with Ion's answer what he dismissed all the lore based feedback, there were tons of threads about it, where blues responded. To say that he just didn't see any of that, that any of the dev team missed any of that feedback because the portion that only cared about the aesthetics is just very Pontius Pilatus.

You say Void Elves are at best a compromise for people who wanted to look like a Blood Elf on the Alliance. Yes, exactly. That is exactly the compromise. They provided the model and a variant of the people to those players. Given that Void Elves are the most popular Allied race, Blizzard was proved correct in the compromise.

Remember, the fundamental problem here is that Blood Elves are High Elves. As Blood Elves are already playable and are a core Horde race, a variant could only be defined by moving away from the High Elf ideal embodied by the Blood Elves. .

And the fundamental misunderstanding here is that you keep conflating looking like a Blood Elf with Playing a High Elf. There's a contextual difference that is relevant, and the reasons why many want High Elves. So if you can't see that your opinion on the issue will always be limited.

For those that is about the lore, it's about the differences between Blood Elves and High Elves, of how the first simply does not fullfill the same fantasy, so "moving away from the High Elf ideal embodied by Blood Elves" is moot, or even desired. Really, if you want to play a Blood Elf, just play a Blood Elf.

While you may have a point in that the Void Elves were depicted as former Blood Elves rather than Silver Covenant High Elves, in the end that has to be seen as a minor consideration. Particularly as it is implied that some High Elves are in fact being turned into Void Elves. The implication has not been refuted. Most of the pushback against the suggestion Void Elves can turn other Elves comes from pro High Elfers, who do not wish to deal with the consequences if that was to confirmed to be the case.

As for nobody on the pro High Elf side asking for Void Elves, of course nobody asked for them. Nobody even conceived they existed. But Void Elves exist because of the request. Blizzard was almost certainly never going to give the Alliance playable High Elves, and they told us why. Because Blood Elves are High Elves, it damages the faction wall. When you look at Void Elves, you can almost see the underlying thought processes they went through as they considered High Elves due to the requests, rejected them and then refashioned a variant that would give the Alliance the model but preserve the theme and aesthetic to the Horde.

But it is not a minor consideration, is a lack of understanding that has lead to months of pushback. Blizzard misunderstood the reasons many wanted High Elves -hint, it wasn't just about the model, it was about the lore- and has yet to offer any solution to that, any solution lorewise that could be considered a compromise. Cause no, it hasn't been implied that HE's can be turned at all. I'd be happy if that was the case, but all we know is that some BEs and HE's are studying the void. That's far to be an implication, hopefully it's the set up FOR the implication, but so far is nothing but a headcanon, and if that's all the High Elf people are getting, is bascially nothing.

Many people that like VE's are also pushing against the idea of including HE skin tones because it would rob the VEs of their identity, and MANY Blood Elf players are aginst because they don't want to lose any of their aesthetic. You keep pushing this narrative that is the HE side is the one causing the pushback, when many conversations within the HE side are about disagreeing about this, it is pretty disingenuous.

The entire basis of distinction in this game is race. Every Allied race has a justified level of differentiation from their parent. Basing a differentiation purely on minor differences goes against the grain of how the factions work in world of warcraft. I did not impose the limitations you see, Blizzard did when they created a race based faction system they clearly still care about.

High Elves being differentiated as you described would be forced, done for the sake of justifying their inclusion as a playable race. This goes against common sense and in game lore. Common sense in that twelve years is not enough to provide a believe level of difference, and in game lore which shows High Elves are NOT differentiating. They are either clinging to their traditions or, when they do differentiate, they are not creating a new ethos for the sake of it but assimilating into a Human culture (as Elisande said).

And yet they created Pandaren, so to pretend that it is a hard rule that will never be changed or revisited is silly. And i'm not even saying that they should do it the same way, but that as a concept it could have been far better than with pandaren, even allowing for exclusive customization.

I am making the case for High Elves, so I am using a "form follows function" approach on this. If what High Elves need to be playable is different enough, let's do it then. The case being made is how to make their lore differences into aesthetic ones, and the most sensible approach to me seems to be behavioral/demeanor, which would translate into different animation and idle stances.

"The Model" of each race/group is nothing but a representation of their heroic archetype, so the point is reframing how the "High Elf heroic archetype" differs from a Blood Elf.

To say that High Elves are not differentiating on the same breath that you admit that they are assimilating into human culture shows a real dissonance in what you are saying. They might not be willingly differentiation, but they are being affected by their context and circumstance, that's what leads to differentiation.

For example, do they tend to affect their mannerisms around humans? Has that assimilation lead to them adopting human mannerisms? Do they purposefully act and behave less haughty to differentiate themselves from Blood Elves? all of these behavioral implications could be translated to a model with more or less Blood Elven proportions, but human animations. All of it based on lore, yet to make HE's distinct enough.

That you think that a lorelol is justifiable to make purple Blood Elves is okay but expanding High Elf lore to make them playable is not really makes your argument suspect.

[Dellis0991]

How the hell is this thread still so active?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

No, what you are doing is bullshitting your way around. I'll make sure to drop a reality check whenever you start letting your bullshit take the reigns.

No, I literally I am talking about compromise being a spectrum of options and you somehow believe that means "i'm getting exactly what I want."

You literally can't read at this point and all you are doing is throwing tantrums.

Lol at you dropping a reality check when you live on constant misinterpretation of what other people are saying.

Let's be clear, so you can actually know one of my opinions before spewing hostility:

I believe the most relevant thing is to continue the High Elf storyline, and that doesn't necessarily mean making them an Allied Race on their own. Which means that I open for a narrative with them that might not be my my best case scenario.

Cause again, my priority here is seeing their narrative move forward, so a compromise for me will have to be about their narrative. How can something that doesn't touch their narrative be a compromise for me? How Void Elvesm which are exiled Blood Elves, fulfill any High Elf fantasy of not leaving the alliance?

Do you get why you are misunderstanding my stance from such a basic level is actually kinda funny?

Is exhausting answering to you because you never actually address any points one makes, just start screaming bloody murder like a lunatic. Behave dear baby j.

[Deleted]

How the hell is this thread still so active?

I only read it for ludic purposes, but this thread keeps going the same way the one in the official forums does. People want High elves. It's impossible to deny it, no matter how you rationalise they won't come.

I think Blizz should just get them and Ogres in. Maybe have Silvermoon change hands and have the blood elves be the outcasts as that is what makes more sense given their fantasy (getting magic forcefully from other sources), and just have Ogres Settle in the ruins of the Exodar and make it a seat of magic power. Those would be interesting developments that could be used to revamp the zones and take them out of the TBC map.

[Varx]

Honestly at this point as long as Blizzard doesn't waste an allied race slot on blue eyes belves for the alliance instead of a gnome, worgen, or horde swap allied race then idc. Obviously this means either expand Velf customization or make belves neutral and replace them with Ogres.

[Evilfish]

No, I literally I am talking about compromise being a spectrum of options and you somehow believe that means "i'm getting exactly what I want."

You literally can't read at this point and all you are doing is throwing tantrums.

Lol at you dropping a reality check when you live on constant misinterpretation of what other people are saying.

Let's be clear, so you can actually know one of my opinions before spewing hostility:

I believe the most relevant thing is to continue the High Elf storyline, and that doesn't necessarily mean making them an Allied Race on their own. Which means that I open for a narrative with them that might not be my my best case scenario.

Cause again, my priority here is seeing their narrative move forward, so a compromise for me will have to be about their narrative. How can something that doesn't touch their narrative be a compromise for me? How Void Elvesm which are exiled Blood Elves, fulfill any High Elf fantasy of not leaving the alliance?

Do you get why you are misunderstanding my stance from such a basic level is actually kinda funny?

Is exhausting answering to you because you never actually address any points one makes, just start screaming bloody murder like a lunatic. Behave dear baby j.

Calm down helfboi, you are not being misunderstood. I don't care about your interpretation of a compromise because it's false. That's what's happening, so cut the drama.

You don't get to say that a compromise isn't a compromise or isn't good enough cause it didn't give you what you wanted. Deal with that, or don't but there was a compromise.

But hey I'm not unreasonable. If it's the Helf storyline you feel needs attention, then by all means, merge them with Velfs and you'll get what you want (and before you get all excited, when I say merge I mean turn them into Velfs). The narrative moves forward and that's that.

[Toho]

Calm down helfboi, you are not being misunderstood. I don't care about your interpretation of a compromise because it's false. That's what's happening, so cut the drama.

You don't get to say that a compromise isn't a compromise or isn't good enough cause it didn't give you what you wanted. Deal with that, or don't but there was a compromise.

But hey I'm not unreasonable. If it's the Helf storyline you feel needs attention, then by all means, merge them with Velfs and you'll get what you want. The narrative moves forward and that's that.

you are one of the most elitist and condescending people I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

[RangerDaz]

its still going? blood elves are high elves, get over it
we created the game
we created the lore
we created the character
we tell you high elves are blood elves end of discussion
do you want me to get chris metzen say it loud and clear?
the poor guy couldn't handle the stress he nearly killed himself, leave it alone.

??????????

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Calm down helfboi, you are not being misunderstood. I don't care about your interpretation of a compromise because it's false. That's what's happening, so cut the drama.

You don't get to say that a compromise isn't a compromise or isn't good enough cause it didn't give you what you wanted. Deal with that, or don't but there was a compromise.

But hey I'm not unreasonable. If it's the Helf storyline you feel needs attention, then by all means, merge them with Velfs and you'll get what you want (and before you get all excited, when I say merge I mean turn them into Velfs). The narrative moves forward and that's that.

It's hilarious you still need to be an hostile rant machine while still actually agreeing with my point.

I mean you still wholly misunderstand that both parts have to get something on a compromise, so a compromise that doesn't address even a little of what I want, I.E. the lore, is not a compromise by default.

So you are basically saying that I am wrong about what a compromise is, continue to flail about it, yet you actually agree with one of the cases of compromise I would find acceptable.

You are quite something Evilfish.

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This.

The sunwell changing thr Blood Elves and not the Silver Covenant is basically what i have been saying for the last 200 pages on this thread.

If we are going by implications as people like to go around, yeah, that no High Elves have golden eyes, implies that for some reason only Blood Elves are getting them.

Is it proximity? active channeling of the light energies? Whatever the case might be, there is the implication that the golden eyes are just for SOME blood elves, and so far, no High Elves.

That itself creates even more differentiation, and since the implication is there already, not hard at all to expand upon.

While I think that High Elves are still connected to the Sunwell -In the Shadow of the Sun tells us that- I do believe that for some reason, the Sunwell is affecting Blood Elves differently because of context.

And there's also the possibility of Blood Elves willfully cutting off any traitors.

[Evilfish]

It's hilarious you still need to be an hostile rant machine while still actually agreeing with my point.

I mean you still wholly misunderstand that both parts have to get something on a compromise, so a compromise that doesn't address even a little of what I want, I.E. the lore, is not a compromise by default.

So you are basically saying that I am wrong about what a compromise is, continue to flail about it, yet you actually agree with one of the cases of compromise I would find acceptable.

You are quite something Evilfish.

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If we are going by implications as people like to go around, yeah, that no High Elves have golden eyes, implies that for some reason only Blood Elves are getting them.

Is it proximity? active channeling of the light energies? Whatever the case might be, there is the implication that the golden eyes are just for SOME blood elves, and so far, no High Elves.

That itself creates even more differentiation, and since the implication is there already, not hard at all to expand upon.

While I think that High Elves are still connected to the Sunwell -In the Shadow of the Sun tells us that- I do believe that for some reason, the Sunwell is affecting Blood Elves differently because of context.

And there's also the possibility of Blood Elves willfully cutting off any traitors.

You see me as hostile because I disagree with you and call your bs when you let it flow and you do let a lot of it flow. That's fine with me.

You can keep going about misunderstandings as much as you want, I'm not taking that bait and I'm certain you can build your strawman arguments without my help.

But once again, there was a compromise, your very biased opinion regarding the respective compromise does not change the fact that Velfs were the compromise. I'll make sure to repeat that as often as you act all misunderstood again.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You see me as hostile because I disagree with you and call your bs when you let it flow and you do let a lot of it flow. That's fine with me.

You can keep going about misunderstandings as much as you want, I'm not taking that bait and I'm certain you can build your strawman arguments without my help.

But once again, there was a compromise, your very biased opinion regarding the respective compromise does not change the fact that Velfs were the compromise. I'll make sure to repeat that as often as you act all misunderstood again.

It's like talking to that meme of Patrick Star dear lord bhahah.

[FlubberPuddy]

It's like talking to that meme of Patrick Star dear lord bhahah.

At this point I would just ignore and/or report, and move on. But definitely just ignore.

There's some people that come into the discussion just to make inflammatory posts (like Evilfish) where nothing of substance is brought to the discussion and keeps going round and round in circles.

Then there's those who actually make an effort towards creating posts against High Elves and discuss the different events occurring in-game and out-of-game towards their position (like Obelisk).

I think we're at a point in the discussion now where it's pretty clear to see who posts just to throw some quick jabs about the discussion and those who post to actually participate in it.

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While being in the Horde, Blood Elves get to restore the Sunwell, and even allow High Elves to visit it. High Elves still keep to themselves, though there is no reason to do this anymore, because the 2 alternative lifestyles are not relevant anymore, and Blood Elves are more or less purified from the Legion's influence.

So... the main storyline revolves around High Elves becoming Blood Elves, and a tiny faction of these becoming Void Elves. Alliance Elves are a relic of the past, nothing more.

The issue I take here is that people take Lor'themar allowing High Elves pilgrimage to the Sunwell as implied indication that High Elves are welcome back to their homes/families etc.

Allowing pilgrimage to the Sunwell =/= no rivalry between Blood Elves and High Elves towards the other. Yet some think this.

Allowing the pilgrimage is more like Lor'themar declaring the Sunwell to be a holy site and he's not wanting to stop those that wish to go pray there or whatever. He's sort of making it neutral grounds - unless of course something causes it danger as we saw with the Void.

But nothing from that says High Elves are welcome again in Silvermoon or even the general kingdom of Quel'thalas. Nothing is shown toward this being the case. Nothing is said by Blizzard, or even hinted by them that this is the case.

Yet people keep touting it around (typically Blood Elves who wish for High Elves) as if it is the case.

As we see a couple posts up, we know that the Golden Eyes on Blood Elves hasn't affected the High Elves thereby showcasing a differentiation of reliance/use of the Sunwell.

Again to end it, allowing =/= "GG welcome back home brothers and sisters". It's basically a neutral religious site where no one should stir up any animosity and focus on their prayer or whatever. It could also be that many High Elves still refused the offer, even if some are shown there. A few being there doesn't come close to the amount of High Elves still shown among Alliance citizenship, lands, and armies.