Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varx]

That's not mine to ask for, they'll know what to put in the game, i'm posting here for high elves.

That's fine but this entire thread is revolving around some grand request by delusional players who only care about what they want and dont think about the impacts it would have towards the entire game.

They're all conviced that high elves makes sense because X reason this X reason that but dont think about the real questions.

Yeah yeah the High elves are a part of the alliance. Ok cool story now give me an appropriate Horde varient that would not disrupt race balance cuz if you cant answer that what makes you think there's even the slightest chance at helves.

[Aldo Hawk]

That's fine but this entire thread is revolving around some grand request by delusional players who only care about what they want and dont think about the impacts it would have towards the entire game.

They're all conviced that high elves makes sense because X reason this X reason that but dont think about the real questions.

Yeah yeah the High elves are a part of the alliance. Ok cool story now give me an appropriate Horde varient that would not disrupt race balance cuz if you cant answer that what makes you think there's even the slightest chance at helves.

I don't have to come with a race for HE to come in pairs for you or for demonstrate anything, if you want to suggest something, go on, i don't care.

Also, i don't know what's more delusional, if wanting that character option available to play or denying it because it feels like the game would be broken forever.

[Varx]

You're not doing a good job if you're in this thread to try and advocate for High Elves yet you act like your caught between a rock and a hard place when you cant answer a question that revolves around one of the most important pillars of world of warcraft, races. Then refuse to discuss it.

I already suggested it. Regular. Night elves with purple eyes and tattoos. Call them dusk elves. Obviously it's a joke but that's the point.

It wouldnt break the game. It would be unnecessary, lazy, and pandered to a small but loud minority. That is not delusional but fact. Alliance has velves take it or go horde.

[FlubberPuddy]

Yeah yeah the High elves are a part of the alliance. Ok cool story now give me an appropriate Horde varient that would not disrupt race balance cuz if you cant answer that what makes you think there's even the slightest chance at helves.

Can you show us proof of other threads focused on a race request trying to come up with equivalents? Let's throw out Vulpera and Mechagnomes because that's considered an "obvious one" by the community.

Show me in threads where people are requesting Ogres, Sethrak, Night Elf Worgen, Horde Eredar etc if they're giving a hoot about what the other faction gets as an equivalent.

You're acting like it's some requirement that people need to have an equivalent pair in mind when making a race request. That's been said nowhere. Most people also don't give a hoot about what someone else gets once they have what they want - case in point: the BE players in here and those who are happy with the already playable races in the game.

You're trying to put a responsibility onto players when it's not their responsibility. Players only need to make their requests known. It's Blizzard's responsibility to come up with how to implement it if they want to.

Just like no one had to come up with how make a DH class. Blizzard just did it through their own way.

[Garfurion]

Yes it does matter. It matters very much. Why do you think horde got nightborne and ally got velves. You think it was an accident or coincidence that each factioned swapped out their core elf races for reskins?

When it comes to major additions to the game their needs to be balance. You cant just add high elves, another belf AR, and then give the Horde something more exciting like vulpera, gilgoblins, ogres, etc.

People just spew out what they want like its nothing but don't think about how it would affect the game as a whole.

Void Elves and Nightborne came as a pair since it was a cross-faction swap. A Blood-Elf variant for the Alliance and a Night-Elf variant for the a Horde.

If Alliance ever gets High Elves it wouldn't be a cross faction swap since the Alliance already has access to the Void Elf model (or could get a new model).

I also don't think there is a rule that new elf races must come in pairs since the Alliance didn't get a new elf race when the Horde got Blood Elves.

Whether playable Alliance High Elves would be considered exciting depends on ones own point of view and on how they would be added but there are various potential Horde AR which could offer a similar experience.

I think Lightforged and Highmountain are less exciting than Kul Tirans or Zandalari from a design point but they were added as well.

[Varx]

Void Elves and Nightborne came as a pair since it was a cross-faction swap. A Blood-Elf variant for the Alliance and a Night-Elf variant for the a Horde.

If Alliance ever gets High Elves it wouldn't be a cross faction swap since the Alliance already has access to the Void Elf model (or could get a new model).

I also don't think there is a rule that new elf races must come in pairs since the Alliance didn't get a new elf race when the Horde got Blood Elves.

Whether playable Alliance High Elves would be considered exciting depends on ones own point of view and on how they would be added but there are various potential Horde AR which could offer a similar experience.

I think Lightforged and Highmountain are less exciting than Kul Tirans or Zandalari from a design point but they were added as well.

Racial options would be lopsided if alliance has two thalasian models while horde has one nelf model.

Guys this isnt hard. Think of races as a math equation.

Humans=orcs
Dwarves=tauren
Night elves=undead
Gnomes=trolls
Draenie=blood eld
Worgen=goblin
...... Pandaren.....
Mag'har=dark iron
Hightmountain=lightforged
Kt humans=zandalari
Void elves=nightborne
High elves=vulpera??????!;!\!;;::!@@

It doesnt take a genius to figure out why high elves arent practical if you look at that without high elf goggles on.

[FlubberPuddy]

Other than you Varx, who else keeps insisting High Elves are coming with Vulpera?

[Varx]

Other than you Varx, who else keeps insisting High Elves are coming with Vulpera?

Im using them as an example. Could be them, ogres, gilgoblins we. Pairing then with anything other than some bs nelf race would tip the scales on playable races out of balance.

And yes race option balance is extremely important in a two faction game. The fact that i have to stress that is mind boggling.

[FlubberPuddy]

Im using them as an example. Could be them, ogres, gilgoblins we. Pairing then with anything other than some bs nelf race would tip the scales with race balance.

And yes race option balance is extremely important in a two faction game. The fact that i have to stress that is mind boggling.

There's a lot of players asking for Undead Elves/San'layn. There's your pair if you want it so badly. Especially since San'layn are one of the other really popular requests, what would be their equivalent on the Alliance other than a High Elf?

Again, regardless it's not up to the players. It's Blizzard's responsibility. It doesn't help to ask a question that only Blizzard has power over.

[Varx]

There's a lot of players asking for Undead Elves/San'layn. There's your pair if you want it so badly. Especially since San'layn are one of the other really popular requests, what would be their equivalent on the Alliance other than a High Elf?

Again, regardless it's not up to the players. It's Blizzard's responsibility. It doesn't help to ask a question that only Blizzard has power over.

You're right, it is up to blizzards discretion. But if you look at all the patterns ive listed its very safe to assume that blizzard will continue to follow said balance patterns through out the relevancy of WoW.

I got a decade+ of evidence. All you guys have is your suped up wishful thinking based on some very vague bones blizz threw you.

Also undead nelves also fuck up the scales as they are vastly different from normal nelves as compared to blood elves and high elves. Though sanlyan would work if belves/helves had the pandaren treatment.

[FlubberPuddy]

You're right, it is up to blizzards discretion. But if you look at all the patterns ive listed its very safe to assume that blizzard will continue to follow said balance patterns through out the relevancy of WoW.

I got a decade+ of evidence. All you guys have is your suped up wishful thinking based on some very vague bones blizz threw you.

Also undead nelves also fuck up the scales as they are vastly different from normal nelves as compared to blood elves and high elves. Though sanlyan would work if belves/helves had the pandaren treatment.

You don't have a decade+ of evidence on a system that just released last year and Blizzard have said they're still taking in different directions.

[Varx]

You don't have a decade+ of evidence on a system that just released last year and Blizzard have said they're still taking in different directions.

Im not just talking About AR man. Blizzard has been very careful, or tried to at least, to keep the two factions balanced where it really matteres: races and classes.

TBC: ally gets sham and horde gets pally.

Cata: druids are the most racd restrictive class but both factions got two new ones

Legion: DH only playable by both factions elves.

Bfa: Both factions have swapped out two of their core races for the other. Both factions also have ARs from their two continents with each having completely new skeleton rigs and skins. I know male zanda use nelf rigs but they have been heavily modified.

You see the patterns? Adding high elves with anything other than normal nelves would fuck this up.

[FlubberPuddy]

Im not just talking About AR man. Blizzard has been very careful, or tried to at least, to keep the two factions balanced where it really matteres: races and classes.

TBC: ally gets sham and horde gets pally.

Cata: druids are the most racd restrictive class but both factions got two new ones

Legion: DH only playable by both factions elves.

Bfa: Both factions have swapped out two of their core races for the other. Both factions also have ARs from their two continents with each having completely new skeleton rigs and skins. I know male zanda use nelf rigs but they have been heavily modified.

You see the patterns? Adding high elves with anything other than normal nelves would fuck this up.

Then what would be the equivalent on Horde to a 3rd dwarf type if that came to be? Can't be more Orcs since they came with a plethora already. I think you're coming to a conclusion too quickly as we still haven't seen the rest of the Allied Races coming out in this expansion. By either what types or models they'll be.

Sure we have high plausibility with Vulpera and Mechagnomes. But Vulpera look nothing like a goblin. That's a very strong visual deviation from your proposed balance/pattern. And again we still don't know the remaining pair to end with in BFA.

[Dristereau]

Rather amused this thread is still going but I won't complain as it's still relevant. For those who don't know and keep complaining or spouting nonsense, all elves were originally Night Elves. The Kaldorei or Night Elves exist as the standard Elves, and the Quel'dorei/Highborne who were exiled by the Night Elves travelled to the Eastern Kingdoms and became the High Elves of Quel'thalas. All High Elves relied on the Sunwell and it's magical energy.

The High Elves were in conflict with the Trolls and eventually allied the with the Humans of Arathi and eventually the Alliance of Lordaeron. This Alliance would splinter in time with the majority of the High Elves returning to Quel'thalas but smaller amounts staying in the Alliance through the Kirin Tor or with Alleria as part of the Alliance Expedition to Outland.

With these High Elves away from Quel'thalas Arthas attacked Silvermoon and slaughtered nearly all of the High Elves and destroyed the Sunwell. The majority of the surviving Elves united in the remnants of Silvermoon, and Kael'thas Sunstrider named his people Blood Elves in honor of those who had been killed. But the destruction of the Sunwell had another affect, the Elves were all addicted to the magical Sunwell, and began to suffer as a result. Kael'thas allied with Illidan and began to siphon Fel Magic from demons and it would sate the Blood Elves. The High Elves however were horrified by this idea and refused to do this and as a result were exiled from Quel'thalas.

At this point there are three named groups, the High Elves of the Kirin Tor, who would become the Silver Covenant with a strong dislike of the Horde. The High Elves of the Alliance Expedition, who were on Outland. The Blood Elves of Silvermoon, who still inhabited the Kingdom of Quel'thalas. Another split would occur within the Blood Elves, when a group led by Magister Umbric were exiled for delving into the Void. Alleria Windrunner would rescue these Elves from the Ethereals and the Void and they would become the Void Elves.

All the Elves on the Eastern Kingdoms are Quel'dorei or High Elves. Those who joined the Kirin Tor became the Silver Covenant and the Alliance Expedition remain High Elves. Those who siphoned Fel and followed Kael'thas Sunstrider and then Lor'themar Theron became the Blood Elves. The Blood Elves who were exiled for dabbling with the Void became the Void Elves. All three groups remain High Elves, but Blood Elves those who were addicted to Fel/Holy Magic, the Void Elves transformed Blood Elves and the High Elves those who were relatively free from the Sunwell.

It's assumed the remaining High Elves in the Silver Covenant and Alliance Expedition were able to overcome their addiction to the Sunwell as they did not succumb to being Wretched or siphon magic from other sources. Their attitudes towards the Blood Elves are hostile and unlikely to return to the Sunwell at all after the purification. The Silver Covenant is considered the main and most strongly identified High Elf bastion even being recognised by the Nightborne independently and being led by Vereesa Windrunner primarily as Mage and Rangers. High Elves are also found among the 7th Legion as well as integrated into the Alliance, as well as a few studying the Void.

The point of this is that High Elves do exist and there's a significant and suitable lore that is easy to develop to make the High Elves of the Silver Covenant playable. There is no other race to really compare to them as this thread has been going four months are is near to 500 pages long discussing one Allied Race. Ion does say anything is possible in the future and there have been hints Blizzard notices the support for High Elves.

My question really is why are people against Blizzard adding an additional Allied Race? What are your issues? In terms of the models I don't personally mind Horde getting Alliance models, specifically Undead Humans (Think Nathanos) or Night Elves and Zandalari are very similar to Night Elves as well with Animations (The original model was a Night Elf). In terms of variety I think myself and others have said they can be changed enough to differentiate them enough from Blood Elves. The model for Blood Elves/High Elves has already changed from before TBC when Blood Elves were added.

The next Allied Races are likely Mechagnomes and Vulpera with the Alliance forcing the Vulpera towards the Horde in 8.1 and a faction of Mechagnomes integrating with the Alliance and regular Gnomes. However after that time who knows. If High Elves do become an Allied Race, and it is possibly the final patch of BFA when the focus is on N'Zoth or 9.X when the Faction War is less relevant.

[Varx]

Then what would be the equivalent on Horde to a 3rd dwarf type if that came to be? Can't be more Orcs since they came with a plethora already. I think you're coming to a conclusion too quickly as we still haven't seen the rest of the Allied Races coming out in this expansion. By either what types or models they'll be.

Sure we have high plausibility with Vulpera and Mechagnomes. But Vulpera look nothing like a goblin. That's a very strong visual deviation from your proposed balance/pattern. And again we still don't know the remaining pair to end with in BFA.

Now you're getting me. This is why i dont see wild hammers as a race and more of an option for dwarves. Blue tattoos like black nElf eyes.

Vulpera for me are an enigma. Here's how i envision it.

Vulpera share the gob rig but are not a gob race. So the alliance equivalent would be a race that shares the worgen rig. Maybe those fishmen from the 8.2 preview.

Or maybe we dont get vulpera and the mechagnome equivalent are gilgoblins who are also on the 8.2 preview. Followes by light undead for ally and ,shooting in the dark, orc worgen as a result of loa shenanigans.

And as Thanos would say, perfectly balanced as things should be

[Moonrage]

I don't get why everyone thinks the Vulpera are going to be an allied race. People don't like playing small races and Blizzard knows that, so adding Vulpera would be downright dumb.
OT as much as I love High Elves, I doubt they're ever going to make it as an allied race. Especially after the addition of Void Elves.

[Garfurion]

Cata: druids are the most racd restrictive class but both factions got two new ones

BFA: druids are still the most race restricted class but Horde gets 2 races and Alliance gets 1 (as it currently stands).

Shaman, Paladins, Mages, Priests and perhaps some other classes are unbalanced at the moment.

If I recall correctly the Alliance also had 1 race/class combo less than the Horde from Cata till Legion when Gnomes Hunters became playable.

Blizzard doesn't care about balancing everything that much, and certainly not at balancing everything in pairs.

For example: Nightborne got a modified model, Void Elves just a copy. Nightborne were introduced with their own zone, dungeons and a raid and out of game content before becoming an AR. Void Elves weren't seen in or out of the game prior to being announced as an AR.

- - - Updated - - -

Now you're getting me. This is why i dont see wild hammers as a race and more of an option for dwarves. Blue tattoos like black nElf eyes.

Vulpera for me are an enigma. Here's how i envision it.

Vulpera share the gob rig but are not a gob race. So the alliance equivalent would be a race that shares the worgen rig. Maybe those fishmen from the 8.2 preview.

Or maybe we dont get vulpera and the mechagnome equivalent are gilgoblins who are also on the 8.2 preview. Followes by light undead for ally and ,shooting in the dark, orc worgen as a result of loa shenanigans.

And as Thanos would say, perfectly balanced as things should be

Blizzard has stated on at least 1 occasion that since AR are not technically sub-races there are no limitations to what they can do.

I also don't think Blizzard cares about which race is/was introduced with which other race.

Worgen were added to the Alliance because they wanted a darker race (thematically) for the Alliance which links them to Forsaken on the Horde side. Goblins were added to the Horde because they wanted a small comical race on the Horde, similar to the role Gnomes play on the Alliance.

- - - Updated - - -

Then what would be the equivalent on Horde to a 3rd dwarf type if that came to be?

There are still plenty of options for Horde AR: troll tribes, Taunka, Yaungol and of course Forsaken versions any race that can be a DK except Worgen.

The question is if we will see an AR for Pandaren and if that AR will be neutral or not, and if it's not neutral if the model will still be shared between Horde and Alliance.

[Aldo Hawk]

@Dristereau It's a good quick summary, nothing really wrong with it, but i want to point something that is widely misunderstood and that is that high elves do not become wretched by not feeding on magic, they can live and even overcome the addiction, it isn't a necessity like Nightborne had (Some died for not having their fix but it was due them being old or weak), what happens to a high elf in order to become a wretched is that they have to consume high quantities of mana in a short period of time.

[Dristereau]

@Dristereau It's a good quick summary, nothing really wrong with it, but i want to point something that is widely misunderstood and that is that high elves do not become wretched by not feeding on magic, they can live and even overcome the addiction, it isn't a necessity like Nightborne had (Some died for not having their fix but it was due them being old or weak), what happens to a high elf in order to become a wretched is that they have to consume high quantities of mana in a short period of time.

Thanks for the feedback. Just something I wrote about the main groups;
'It's assumed the remaining High Elves in the Silver Covenant and Alliance Expedition were able to overcome their addiction to the Sunwell as they did not succumb to being Wretched or siphon magic from other sources. Their attitudes towards the Blood Elves are hostile and unlikely to return to the Sunwell at all after the purification.'
However in Cataclysm the High Elves of Quel'Lithien Lodge became Wretched. All High Elves and the subsequent branches (Blood/Void) have an addiction to Magic and it would affect those who used Magic (Mages and Priests) more than Rangers. The High Elves of the Silver Covenant and the Alliance Expedition have likely been able to overcome their addiction, or in terms of the Silver Covenant, the energy from Dalaran itself supplies a base level of magic to keep the High Elves there normal but given that they have spent many years without the Sunwell they are less affected than the Blood Elves who remain in Silvermoon.

[Garfurion]

High/Blood Elves become wretched if they consume too much arcane or fel energy in a short period of time. Interestingly enough, being pumped full of void energy seems to not have this effect although the end result is probably the same, insanity.

The High Elves didn't overcome their addiction after the Sunwell was destroyed. But where Blood Elves gave in to their addiction and resorted to the vampiric behavior of draining energy from living beings, the High Elves tried to fight their addiction and limited themselves to only arcane objects of energy such as magical artifacts, mana stones, etc...