1. #9141
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    His opinion post Blizzard is irrelevant.
    His comments on his tweet when he worked for Blizzard are not. If a Journalist were asked to comment on a piece they wrote for a newspaper they no longer work for a couple of years down the line, does that make their opinion on that piece irrelevant?

    You are holding an absurd position because what was said does not support your aims or position.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    First off, the idea it comes with the "same baggage" is pure speculation because Pandaren's problem was more with how they were written as opposed to just being neutral. The playable Pandaren are all part of the same society, they are all Wandering Isle Pandaren that merely distinguish themselves on philosophy ... many still maintain friendships (because of how they chose to write it).
    This response does not make sense. A neutral race or shared race is exactly that, a race available to both factions. The Pandaren are apparently divided on different philosophical interpretations of their way of life, Tushui against Huojin, which does not translate into physical differences in the character creator. Attempting to differentiate two groups via philosophy is pointless, you cannot express philosophy in a character creator. How do you express 'valor' or 'nobility'? These are attitudes, not physical differentiators.

    Even if they came from two groups explicitly written to live apart they would still look identical and thus share an aesthetic and a theme and therefore, they would fail just as Pandaren did by undermining the distinctiveness of the Alliance and the Horde.

    If on the other hand you argue that there could be some physical differences, to produce a different aesthetic and theme alongside the philosophical variations, then we are in Blood/High Elf versus Void Elf territory. Void Elves and Blood/High Elves are two physical varieties of the same race, but Void Elves are now physically different from the core group. This pairing does not mean Blood/High Elves are a shared race, as the Void Elves now exhibit physical, aesthetic and thematic differences. This means they do not infringe on the distinctiveness of the two factions.

    So you cannot use philosophy as the basis for a shared race because that cannot be represented on the model which the Pandaren demonstrate. And using physical differences invalidates the premise, as then they become different and are no longer shared.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    No, it is your attempt to lead the argument down a path that is irrelevant to the idea of neutral races ... the definition of a red herring. Allied races do not have anything pertinent to this discussion besides your lame attempts to distract from the argument. Nothing is preventing a neutral allied race, another neutral core race or anything. We do not know fully what they intend to do with this new system, anything is just speculation on your part and YET you continue to treat your speculation as if it were a fact.
    You state nothing is preventing another neutral race. This is incorrect.

    We have enough evidence, including the Game Director stating so directly twice in the past eighteen months, that keeping the boundaries between the factions firm is a design goal when it comes to choosing Allied races. We have evidence from a previous senior staff member that they were not keen on sharing Pandaren between the two factions. Just because you hold the division between the factions in such contempt as to disregard it does not mean everyone else has to.

    The Allied race system solves many of the issues that a neutral race was intended to mitigate. The Allied race system has none of the downsides a neutral race has. It has downsides of it's own, but not on the same level as a neutral race.
    You keep arguing that it's possible but possibility does not equate likely or even probable. If you arguing that the theoretical possibility that it could happen exists, then yes, that does exist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    How many races were added before BfA and after MoP ... a big fat zero. (the 4 pre-released races to BfA don't really count as it required a pre-purchase of BfA ... just like Demon Hunter isn't considered added in WoD).
    So to prove your point you rule out the time period when they have added eight new races to the game? That's like attempting to argue British politics is competent but insisting we stop examining events at the end of 2015. That isn't going to work.
    When Pandaren were announced, speculation ran rampant as to what the future neutral races added to the game could be. Seven and a half years and not one neutral addition. Not a single one. When the Allied race system debuted they returned to offering faction locked pairs. Technically there shouldn't be any issue with a shared Allied race, but they have refused to add any. And specifically cited faction diversity when asked about Alliance High Elves.
    We have four sets of new races since MOP where Blizzard could have opted to add a neutral race and in each case, faction locked races that protected faction diversity were selected. There are probably two more such sets to come. I suspect they will also be faction locked.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You mean the single opportunity in the story after MoP? One thing that has been constant with Blizzard is they value story over everything else and right now a story about Faction conflict doesn't suit a neutral race. I can easily state this as a complete counter to what you have stated here. The current story does not permit a neutral race to be added at this time. This does not mean neutral races will not a viable option.
    Every time Blizzard launched an expansion was an opportunity to add a new neutral race. WOD and Legion both passed by without them. Your point about the current expansion involving a faction war that doesn't facilitate neutral races is...inexplicable because the only neutral race that has joined the game so far, the Pandaren, were added during the last major war between the Alliance and the Horde. Maybe you remember it and if you don't, you can see it playing out in all the zones revamped by the Cataclysm. Or you can visit Theramore crater. In fact when Chris Metzen announced Mists of Pandaria, he hyped up the faction war aspect of it 'red and blue are going to get it on' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAz1...X&index=2&t=0s). When the Pandaren visit their faction capitals for the first time, they are explicitly warned against fraternizing with the enemy,

    To cite the faction war of BFA as a factor stopping the addition now and that the conclusion of this war will open the way to future neutral races displays an ignorance of the circumstances of Mists of Pandaria. The faction war is no barrier to the addition of a neutral race whether core or allied, because the only time they did it they did it turning the faction war. The real barrier to neutral races remains what they consistently tell you what it is, but which you stretch every sinew to avoid hearing. That neutral races weaken faction diversity and that they simply do not find that cost worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It would be like saying they'll never introduce a non-Hero Class again because we haven't had one since Monk ... you are speculating on an unknown, while treating said speculation as if it was a fully accepted fact.
    Has anyone come out and stated the development team weren't keen on the Monk class?
    Has anyone come out and stated that a new non hero class was a bad idea that damaged some other critical aspect of the game?

    They did state sharing a race between the factions wasn't a good idea. And because they stated keeping the factions distinct was important to them when selecting Allied races. If at some point they offer evidence regarding non hero classes being bad for the game, then you will be able to make that comparison.

    But as they have offered evidence that neutral races didn't work and have not provided evidence non hero classes don't work, your comparison is spurious. This is a perfect example of a false equivalence.




    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    If you entire argument is built on speculation and opinion, I can. And your entire argument is built on speculation and opinion. Your strongest argument is Ion's statement ... he is against playable High Elves and wants to keep faction identity and EVEN THAT doesn't discount the possibility of another neutral race.
    Ion's statement, Ghostcrawler's statement, Ghostcrawler's elaboration, seven years of no new neutral races and an allied race system that doesn't need them.

    Actions and words from Blizzard and by Blizzard.

    But as I stated earlier, a new neutral race is theoretically possible. But so is me winning the lotto.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-03-17 at 12:10 PM.

  2. #9142
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    His comments on his tweet when he worked for Blizzard are not. If a Journalist were asked to comment on a piece they wrote for a newspaper they no longer work for a couple of years down the line, does that make their opinion on that piece irrelevant?

    You are holding an absurd position because what was said does not support your aims or position.
    If he is asked concerning what a company he no longer works with ideology is ... yes, it is irrelevant. And beyond that it is merely his stated opinion and has no more weight than yours or mine. All this is is "Ghostcrawler's opinion" ... I don't care about his opinion.

    Stop acting like a Post Blizzard Ghostcrawler is worth anything in this discussion. His view isn't valid just because you assert it's validity. I have no evidence even to honestly support you spoke to Ghostcrawler, so I have merely humor you even bringing it up.

    This response does not make sense. A neutral race or shared race is exactly that, a race available to both factions. The Pandaren are apparently divided on different philosophical interpretations of their way of life, Tushui against Huojin, which does not translate into physical differences in the character creator. Attempting to differentiate two groups via philosophy is pointless, you cannot express philosophy in a character creator. How do you express 'valor' or 'nobility'? These are attitudes, not physical differentiators.

    Even, as you are bound to argue, they came from two groups explicitly written to live apart they would still look identical and thus share an aesthetic and a theme and therefore, they would fail just as Pandaren did by undermining the distinctiveness of the Alliance and the Horde.

    If on the other hand you argue that there could be some physical differences, to produce a different aesthetic and theme alongside the philosophical variations, then we are in Blood/High Elf versus Void Elf territory. Void Elves and Blood/High Elves are two physical varieties of the same race, but Void Elves are now physically different from the core group. This pairing does not mean Blood/High Elves are a shared race, as the Void Elves now exhibit physical, aesthetic and thematic differences.

    So you cannot use philosophy as the basis for a shared race because that cannot be represented on the model. And using physical differences invalidates the premise, as then they become different and are no longer shared.
    And essentially the differences between Blood Elves and Void Elves are essentially purely cosmetic with different active powers ... Just like Mag'har Orcs and Green Orcs. Void elves don't really have a significantly different culture than Blood Elves. They don't really have hugely different philosophies. They still view themselves as Void elves.

    The answer doesn't make sense to you because of YOUR limited view of what a neutral race means. You are essentially pigeon holing a neutral race into one possible set. Look at Vrykul again ... it could be a neutral race but with Stormheim Vrykul and Northrend Vrykul on different sides of the conflict. It doesn't make sense to you, because you see neutral races only being like Pandaren without any reason to hold said viewpoint.

    You state nothing is preventing another neutral race. This is incorrect.

    We have enough evidence, including the Game Director stating so directly twice in the past eighteen months, that keeping the boundaries between the factions firm is a design goal when it comes to choosing Allied races. We have evidence from a previous senior staff member that they were not keen on sharing Pandaren between the two factions. Just because you hold the division between the factions in such contempt as to disregard it does not mean everyone else has to.

    The Allied race system solves many of the issues that a neutral race was intended to mitigate. The Allied race system has none of the downsides a neutral race has. It has downsides of it's own, but not on the same level as a neutral race.
    You keep arguing that it's possible but possibility does not equate likely or even probable. If you arguing that the theoretical possibility that it could happen exists, then yes, that does exist.
    States what I said was incorrect, continues to point out using his own flawed arguments. No reason even to respond to this part.


    So to prove your point you rule out the time period when they have added eight new races to the game? That's like attempting to argue British politics is competent but insisting we stop examining events at the end of 2015. That isn't going to work.
    When Pandaren were announced, speculation ran rampant as to what the future neutral races added to the game could be. Seven and a half years and not one neutral addition. Not a single one. When the Allied race system debuted they returned to offering faction locked pairs. Technically there shouldn't be any issue with a shared Allied race, but they have refused to add any. And specifically cited faction diversity when asked about Alliance High Elves.
    We have four opportunities since MOP where Blizzard could have opted to add a neutral race and in each case, faction locked races that protected faction diversity were selected. There are probably two more opportunities to come. I suspect they will also be faction locked.
    Counting one possibility as if it was really 4 is pretty sad.

    Every time Blizzard launched an expansion was an opportunity to add a new neutral race. WOD and Legion both passed by without them. Your point about the current expansion involving a faction war that doesn't facilitate neutral races is...inexplicable because the only neutral race that has joined the game so far, the Pandaren, were added during the last major war between the Alliance and the Horde. Maybe you remember it and if you don't, you can see it playing out in all the zones revamped by the Cataclysm. Or you can visit Theramore crater. In fact when Chris Metzen announced Mists of Pandaria, he hyped up the faction war aspect of it 'red and blue are going to get it on' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAz1...X&index=2&t=0s). When the Pandaren visit their faction capitals for the first time, they are explicitly warned against fraternizing with the enemy,

    To cite the faction war of BFA as a factor stopping the addition now and that the conclusion of this war will open the way to future neutral races displays an ignorance of the circumstances of Mists of Pandaria. The faction war is no barrier to the addition of a neutral race whether core or allied, because the only time they did it they did it turning the faction war. The real barrier to neutral races remains what they consistently tell you what it is, but which you stretch every sinew to avoid hearing. That neutral races weaken faction diversity and that they simply do not find that cost worth it.
    WoD and Legion didn't add ANY races so to count them as "potential neutral race" possibilities is like saying last month I had a chance of getting a new job ... despite never applying or even looking for a new job that entire month. There is no evidence they considered a new race at all during either expansion so it doesn't count as a possibility.

    The Faction War is more of a barrier to adding neutral races than any of your points. Literally it is the same level as any of your arguments against Neutral races ... in fact, it is the core aspect of your "faction identity" argument. If there was no faction war, what need is there for unique faction identity? The war is a driving point for faction identity. This weaken your own argument.

    Has anyone come out and stated the development team weren't keen on the Monk class?
    Has anyone come out and stated that a new non hero class was a bad idea that damaged some other critical aspect of the game?
    Given that monks are Less played that Demon Hunters (a class introduced after them as a Hero Class).
    And developers have been asked about it ... I would say that it would be the case. It is the same logic you are using to defend your "no neutral race" stance.

    They did state sharing a race between the factions wasn't a good idea. And because they stated keeping the factions distinct was important to them when selecting Allied races. If at some point they offer evidence regarding non hero classes being bad for the game, then you will be able to make that comparison.
    They did not state that, that is YOUR interpretation of what was stated.

    But as they have offered evidence that neutral races didn't work and have not provided evidence non hero classes don't work, your comparison is spurious. This is a perfect example of a false equivalence.
    Using your speculation on what is said as evidence again.

    Ion's statement, Ghostcrawler's statement, Ghostcrawler's elaboration, seven years of no new neutral races and an allied race system that doesn't need them.

    Actions and words from Blizzard and by Blizzard.

    But as I stated earlier, a new neutral race is theoretically possible. But so is me winning the lotto.
    Keep repeating yourself ... it doesn't make anything other than Ion's statement your only actual evidence and weak at that.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2019-03-17 at 01:26 PM.
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  3. #9143
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Yes, it annoys a lot of people. I’m one of those that if they would’ve done something like you suggested wouldn’t be here still requesting for playable High Elves.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Mag’har are a redundant orc model. They’re just brown. Why did people want em??

    Dark Iron are a redundant dwarf model. Why did people want those??

    Same for Lightforged Draenei and Highmountain Tauren, although I’ll admit those weren’t asked for in terms of being a playable race.

    Still, the point is people don’t give a fuck if the model is redundant or not, people want to play the races they want to play. And if it’s a community favorite then it’ll be requested.

    People want to play Alliance High Elves and it’s a community favorite, therefore it’ll be requested.

    Saying shit like “just pretend you’re X” is a weak statement because a feature like Allied Races wouldn’t exist if that’s what Blizzard intended people to do. I could just as easily say, “make believe you’re a brown Orc who turned Green” it’s not the same as playing an actual Mag’har Orc.

    Note the prefix being important, because as I said the AR feature wouldn’t exist if the prefix meant nothing. And the High Elf are not playable. Blood Elves are playable, Void Elves are playable.

    Restating a third time because some people don’t or won’t get it: the actual race, and prefix matters otherwise the AR system wouldn’t exist in the first place.

    There is meaning to playing a Zandalari Troll, a Kul’tiran Human, a Dark Iron Dwarf, a Nightborne Elf. Just as there is meaning to play a High Elf that is not satisfied by playing a Void Elf or Blood Elf.

    Having to say “make believe it is so” is a non-answer. There’s a difference between an actual supported feature in-game and having to make believe. And with how so many of those who consider “High Elfers” out of touch with reality or whatever the hell, it’s the most absurd answer to give.
    None of those ARs are redundant, are you delusional? There are very clear lore AND physical differences between them.

    Now are there physical differences between helf origin velves or belf origin belves? No ffs.

    Imagine how stupid it would be to add regular gilneans or KT just because their lore is different from stormwind.

    This is why it would be REDUNDANT to add high elves as a separate race as they are physically the same as belves. And there is 0 justification for a difference in appearance similar between normal human and kt.

    Saying the alliance has the belf model doesn't matter because A. I doubt blizzard would make a AR from and AR and B. You would still be copy pasting belves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No. It's not. Stop embarrassing yourself. The Alliance already has the "blood elf model" in the void elves.
    Oh it's not? So you're telling me its ok to repeat models just as long as their lore is different?

    ARs are clearly not the same model. All the do is share the same race and rig but their model are different enough to justify their ARs.

    You tell me to stop embarrassing my self when you sit in front of your keyboard and say velves would have been a helf compromise if they had started off as alliance high elves when it would literally not change anything from the velf model its self. Plus there are already high elves in their zone so who says u can't pretend your velf wasn't silver covenant.

  4. #9144
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Oh it's not? So you're telling me its ok to repeat models just as long as their lore is different?
    Holy dishonesty, Batman!

    At no point I claimed that.

    ARs are clearly not the same model. All the do is share the same race and rig but their model are different enough to justify their ARs.
    It's arguable simple palette swaps are "difference enough" to say it's "not breaking the faction barrier".

    Either way, read what I post, and you'll find your post very irrelevant.

    You tell me to stop embarrassing my self
    Because you are.
    when you sit in front of your keyboard and say velves would have been a helf compromise if they had started off as alliance high elves when it would literally not change anything from the velf model its self.
    Because of the lore. You would know that if you bothered to read what I, and others, have posted, instead of just skimming through, looking for key words.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #9145
    The Lightbringer Cerilis's Avatar
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    At this point I'd be happy if void elves had paladins...

    ...would still prefer proper high elves though.

    One reason that stops me from coming back is that my favourite char is my blood elf paladin, but I kiiiiinda dont identify anymore with the horde right now. And I kinda dont want to lose her(the paladin's) identity with a complete race change.

    If only the "celtic" high elf fan-idea i read somewhere was true.

  6. #9146
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post

    Because of the lore. You would know that if you bothered to read what I, and others, have posted, instead of just skimming through, looking for key words.
    Because of the lore? Dude come on that is so pitiful. What if I wanted to play a shadow fang keep Worgen without having to be a DK. See how silly that is?

    You know how many races there would be if Blizzard wanted to cover as many race factions as possible. When it comes to game-play and playable races there is only one thing that matters and one thing only, the model.

    So if velves started off as helves or belves it shouldn't matter to you because you got your thalasian elf.


    Saying, "because of the lore" makes it sound like you're a 16 year old from Beverly Hills complaining about getting a violet Lambo over a purple one.

    I'll admit it would have been better and smoother for velves to have been from the silver covenant or w/e. But if you tell me that they are not a compromise to helves just because of their origin then there is something very wrong there.
    Last edited by Varx; 2019-03-17 at 02:53 PM.

  7. #9147
    If only the "celtic" high elf fan-idea i read somewhere was true.
    And wouldn't that be an asspull like the Ren'dorei? Neither the Highvale Quel'dorei nor Vereesa's followers have that celtic/tribal look to them. Clearly the Quel'dorei have evolved from their initial appearance in Warcraft II, which was 20 years ago.

  8. #9148
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Because of the lore?
    Yes.

    Dude come on that is so pitiful.
    Why does a community wanting to play a race that has been part of the Alliance since day 1 of WoW offends you so?

    What if I wanted to play a shadow fang keep Worgen without having to be a DK. See how silly that is?
    That would be "pitiful" because "shadowfang keep worgen" do not exist as part of the Alliance, and worse yet, have not been part of the Alliance since before the game's launch.

    So if velves started off as helves or belves it shouldn't matter to you because you got your thalasian elf.
    Again, it's not about the model.

    Saying, "because of the lore" makes it sound like you're a 16 year old from Beverly Hills complaining about getting a violet Lambo over a purple one.
    Insulting only makes you look bad. And on top of that, your comparison fails so damn hard it's "pitiful", because, once again, it's not about the model.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  9. #9149
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes.


    Why does a community wanting to play a race that has been part of the Alliance since day 1 of WoW offends you so?


    That would be "pitiful" because "shadowfang keep worgen" do not exist as part of the Alliance, and worse yet, have not been part of the Alliance since before the game's launch.


    Again, it's not about the model.


    Insulting only makes you look bad. And on top of that, your comparison fails so damn hard it's "pitiful", because, once again, it's not about the model.
    I was not insulting you i was using that as an analogy. You get a thalasian elf which is part of the lore as you say but not from the faction that u wish from.

    High void elf good = compromise omg im happy!

    Blood void elf = no compromise, how dare you blizzard!

    Like really man? How piti is that?

    On top of that there are high elves learning how to harness the void as well so u got ur alliance high elves turned void also.

    Also it doesnt matter if helves were part of the alliance since day one. Truth is the playable pure thalasian elves are horde.

    There are Horde KT humans in that town in kul tiras, does that mean we should get playable horde KT.

  10. #9150
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Because of the lore? Dude come on that is so pitiful. What if I wanted to play a shadow fang keep Worgen without having to be a DK. See how silly that is?

    "The mind of a worgen who has not undergone the purification ritual beneath Tal'doren is in a state of constant battle between the wild, animal instincts of the curse and the rational mind of a human. Almost invariably, the curse overwhelms the human mind and renders the worgen little more than a ravenous beast.""-- Ask CDev Round 3

    A non-DK SFK Worgen would thus be a "ravenous beast", meaning it wouldn't be able to interact with any other characters (playable or otherwise) which doesn't make much sense in an MMORPG but perhaps it would be an interesting AR idea for Blizzard
    "I guess only blood elves feel like the odd man out for the Horde. I hope that we've engineered that into it as deftly as we could, but you know, it's the equivalent of a bunch of white chicks hanging out with goblin or tauren. It's weird." -- Chris Metzen

  11. #9151
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Strippling, do yourself a big favor and stop responding. The more you respond, the more you publicly humiliate yourself.

    Go get a book, or access the Wikipedia page or any other online dictionary like Collins Dictionary or Cambridge Dictionary and educate yourself in the meaning of the word compromise.

    I just find it incredibly amusing how dishonest you are as you bolded two parts of the last paragraph in my post... yet completely fails (intentionally, in my opinion) to notice the nine words in between those bolded parts that completely destroy and pulverize your attempt at pulling a strawman.


    No, it's not a compromise.


    Again, educate yourself in the meaning of the word 'compromise'. It's not about "fully satisfying", it's about reaching a middle ground, which void elves, as per their current iteration, absolutely fail to do.

    You know how Void Elves would actually be a compromise? Imagine this scenario instead of what we got for void elf recruitment:

    Alleria Windrunner: "Champion. I've received word from the Silver Covenant, and it's troubling news. In light of my dealings with the Void, some high elf magisters of the Kirin Tor decided to do their own research into the Void. They have relocated out of Dalaran to avoid putting the city in danger in case something went wrong. And, it seems, something happened: communication between Dalaran and the magisters ended abruptly a few weeks ago. Seeing how I have experience dealing with the void, Veressa asked me to investigate the matter. I would like you to accompany me."
    You seem to be under the impression that getting everything you ask for is a compromise so maybe look up the definition yourself.

  12. #9152
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Also it doesnt matter if helves were part of the alliance since day one. Truth is the playable pure thalasian elves are horde.
    The question matters because some people come in here talking as if those wanting playable High Elves on Alliance have no ground to stand on, when they've basically always been what an Allied Race is before the Allied Race system came out.

    It's similar to those who ask for Ogres or Alterac Humans for Horde, except there's been more instances in WoW of High Elf NPCs aiding the Alliance than Ogre or Alterac Human NPCs aiding the Horde.

    And as I said before, in-game canon you as a VE player are a Silvermoon Blood Elf prior, this is supported when you talk to Umbric in BFA in Boralus/Zandalar. As a VE player he goes on about how you guys must work hard to earn the Alliance's trust because of joining up with the Horde in the past.

    High Elves in the Alliance in WoW never did that, so again the only way to have "alliance high elves turned void also" is if you make believe. Which I already posted how if that's what Blizzard intended we wouldn't have the AR system in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    It's dishonest of you to pretend that Void Elves aren't a compromise.

    The Alliance got the playable model they wanted, just not the right skin tone and eye color you all demand. Looks like a middle ground, or as you said, a compromise. Did you expect them to ask for your permission first, to approve the "terms"?

    Lol.
    It's dishonest to pretend it is a compromise. It's never been stated as a compromise. Calling it a compromise has only came from player's mouths, not the actual people who do decide what it is (aka the developers).

    Alliance players asking for high elves never said "we want the blood elf model on Alliance" they always asked for the High Elves shown around the Alliance.

  13. #9153
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I was not insulting you i was using that as an analogy.
    You had the intention to insult, otherwise you'd use a less condescending attempt at analody.

    High void elf good = compromise omg im happy!

    Blood void elf = no compromise, how dare you blizzard!

    Like really man? How piti is that?
    And again with the insults. Just give it up. You refuse to accept the answer that the pro-high-elf as a whole want the high elf race for their lore, and continue to assert "it's all about the model" despite numerous times being told you're wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    You seem to be under the impression that getting everything you ask for is a compromise so maybe look up the definition yourself.
    You seem to be under the impression you know what you're talking about. You don't. Maybe look at the responses I wrote before making assumptions that only serve to make you look real bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    It's dishonest of you to pretend that Void Elves aren't a compromise.
    A compromise is a middle ground. Void elves aren't a middle ground. I even posted an offering of how they'd be a decent 'middle ground'.

    The Alliance got the playable model they wanted,
    It's not about the model. Stop insisting on being objectively wrong. Stop insisting on being ignorant about what the pro-high-elf community wants.

    Lol.
    Yes, you are laughable.

  14. #9154
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You had the intention to insult, otherwise you'd use a less condescending attempt at analody.


    And again with the insults. Just give it up. You refuse to accept the answer that the pro-high-elf as a whole want the high elf race for their lore, and continue to assert "it's all about the model" despite numerous times being told you're wrong.

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    You seem to be under the impression you know what you're talking about. You don't. Maybe look at the responses I wrote before making assumptions that only serve to make you look real bad.

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    A compromise is a middle ground. Void elves aren't a middle ground. I even posted an offering of how they'd be a decent 'middle ground'.


    It's not about the model. Stop insisting on being objectively wrong. Stop insisting on being ignorant about what the pro-high-elf community wants.


    Yes, you are laughable.
    Yes, I saw them, really sad.

    And by the way, middle ground is still not what you want it to be, but what it has to be. You guys keep yapping about compromises and middle ground but you still want it all and act as if you are owed everything you ask for. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over hoping you'd get a different response. It is, as I said, really sad.

  15. #9155
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Strippling, do yourself a big favor and stop responding. The more you respond, the more you publicly humiliate yourself.

    /I]
    This thread is for discussion of high elfs, whether you're for or against them. Don't try shut down someone else from expressing their views, just because they don't match yours... that's childish.

    Also, a certain pro high elfer has been banned twice in recent days.... I wonder why? Probably because he too can't accept that people are against the idea of playable high elfs or high elven customization for void elfs. Instead this certain individual decides to resort to inflammatory remarks and comments.

    No wonder Alex ended his reply on high elven customization with "but please be respectful". Pro high elfers like @FlubberPuddy love to quote Alex's "anything is possible" quote and act like it means "high elfs confirmed", but they're quick to forget his "be respectful" comment and proceed to attack anti's simply because they don't feel playable high elfs are valid and good for the game.

    Also, with regards to the compromise. I'll repeat myself, void elfs are the compromise. It's so blatantly obvious they were I don't know how anyone could disagree. ]And void elfs aren't ex alliance high elfs cause A) alliance high elfs are nigh extinct and lore wise are literally just a few stragglers, and B) alliance high elfs rejected their horde kin for "playing with naughty magic"... so why would they then turn to the void when they rejected the fel?
    Last edited by Strippling; 2019-03-17 at 11:19 PM.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  16. #9156
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    The Alliance got the playable model they wanted, just not the right skin tone and eye color you all demand.
    The requests for playable Alliance High Elves pre-date the introduction of the Blood Elf models introduced in TBC. They have been requested since WoW launched, if not earlier, at a time when High and Blood Elves still used Night-Elf models with crappy skins.

    For examample, Caydiem's often quoted lore post regarding High Elves dates back to September 2005 which was a month before the Burning Crusade was announced and the playable Blood Elf model was revealed for the first time.

    So, unless the Alliance players had the foresight to request a model before they even knew it existed I think it's save to say that the requests for playable Alliance High Elves predate the model and are not limited to it.
    "I guess only blood elves feel like the odd man out for the Horde. I hope that we've engineered that into it as deftly as we could, but you know, it's the equivalent of a bunch of white chicks hanging out with goblin or tauren. It's weird." -- Chris Metzen

  17. #9157
    Remember anything can change over time. During Bc it was really unthinkable to see Shaman and Paladins go to the other faction, and Demon hunters took 5 expansions worth of requesting for it to happen despite all odds being against the class happening with the death of Illidan in BC. Maybe over time they'll warm up to the idea if the constant request becomes too big to ignore.

  18. #9158
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Snip
    Trying to act as if the disrespect comes from one side only, and thinking that Alex was only referencing pro-helfers is a misnomer. There was a question preceding the Void Elf one speaking upon how players (in general) should be conducting themselves on forums. Every. Player. Not just pro-helfers, he just brought it up again in that statement because the conversation was geared toward those wanting high elf fantasy on the Alliance.

    There's toxicity from the anti-helf side which have been banned or spoken to by moderators before due to some of those posters harassing people in this thread, even bringing outside chats out of context for the sole reason of making fun of them. Those anti-helfers have been banned and received infractions multiple times as well.

    Says a lot about one's character when they come in just to shit on others.

    The reason I make a big show of quoting Alex is the same reason you do love to quote his "be respectful" comment. Because his "don't give up" is a specific call-out to those wanting High Elf fantasy on Alliance to literally don't give up, and he said that part with pizzazz to encourage the endeavor. Please find where I say "high elfs confirmed".

    You sure seem to love putting words in people's mouths and taking things out of context. I'm going to assume you do it intentionally going forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    The requests for playable Alliance High Elves pre-date the introduction of the Blood Elf models introduced in TBC. They have been requested since WoW launched, if not earlier, at a time when High and Blood Elves still used Night-Elf models with crappy skins.
    Good catch, proof that the movement originated not based off the contemporary Thalassian model, but the request for a fan-favorite race of the Alliance.

    Hell, after unlocking Kul Tiran Humans and playing around with em, I wouldn't mind haven't jacked High Elves. Like so:



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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyeonh View Post
    Remember anything can change over time. During Bc it was really unthinkable to see Shaman and Paladins go to the other faction, and Demon hunters took 5 expansions worth of requesting for it to happen despite all odds being against the class happening with the death of Illidan in BC. Maybe over time they'll warm up to the idea if the constant request becomes too big to ignore.
    I think from Afrasiabi's comment this past Blizzcon 2018, and Ion's (if the Discord person isn't lying) off-the-mic comment at this past Blizzcon 2018 already show they're warming up to the idea. Or at least not as staunchly against it, because probably they thought it would die down instead of flaring up like it did.

    But also at the same time I know they're super focused on BFA and the next expansion and whatever "fixes" or "changes" may come to Void Elves or the Alliance, if any, in regards to High Elf stuff is clearly set off to the side right now for more pressing matters.

    I don't expect to hear anything from this year's Blizzcon or the next one.

    But then again, I didn't expect to hear anything High Elf-related from Blizzcon 2018 either. One can only keep hoping.

  19. #9159
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Long explanation insert here

    Yeah been around long enough to see weirder things happen throughout WoW, and I would say that high elf is indeed on the back burner with the shape of bfa currently is right now. Also it's far from being the most unlikely thing to expect in this game. SHould of seen the day Draenei were made playable that was quite the storm.

  20. #9160
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post

    Sooo as @Strippling has been saying it's not "just about the lore" as you've been parroting, it's also the choice of color palette. If it was purely about the lore then nothing would change if VE customization was added to reflect the looks of HEs, as that's not what people are upset about.
    The mere fact that they would "settle" for the customizations (which has absolutely nothing to do with the lore) shows that a vast majority of pro high elfers purely just wanted the aesthetic and masked their request behind lore reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Trying to act as if the disrespect comes from one side only, and thinking that Alex was only referencing pro-helfers is a misnomer. There was a question preceding the Void Elf one speaking upon how players (in general) should be conducting themselves on forums. Every. Player. Not just pro-helfers, he just brought it up again in that statement because the conversation was geared toward those wanting high elf fantasy on the Alliance.
    The question was asked on behalf of the pro community. Subsequently, the response was directed toward the group asking the question. Don't beat around the bush.

    Accept that fact that a lot of your community is toxic, as you claim the opposition are.


    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Says a lot about one's character when they come in just to shit on others.
    @Aldo Hawk says hi... oh wait he's banned for doing just that (ps. he's on the pro side). By the way, he's been very aggressive toward me simply for just expressing my concerns and opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    The requests for playable Alliance High Elves pre-date the introduction of the Blood Elf models introduced in TBC. They have been requested since WoW launched, if not earlier, at a time when High and Blood Elves still used Night-Elf models with crappy skins.
    The intensity of high elf requests were relatively mellow until the new thalassian model was released during BC. That speaks volume of the people wanting them.

    Yes, some were after alliance high elfs for the lore. But it's safe to say the aesthetics are a key factor for most of the requests from pro high elfers. Recent discussions and threads on various platforms prove this.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

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