Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

They will not introduce it as allied race cause...https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ization-option

Sorry to tear down this mega thread apart.

So... instead of writing your response here... you decide to make a completely new thread, just so you can make a link to it in this thread? Classy.

And no, you certainly didn't "tear down this mega thread apart". Hell, you didn't even shake it.

[vertigo12]

So... instead of writing your response here... you decide to make a completely new thread, just so you can make a link to it in this thread? Classy.

And no, you certainly didn't "tear down this mega thread apart". Hell, you didn't even shake it.

I made a new one so it won't derail it or spoil the content as a respect for the OP and his creativity. Aside from that, it is a a different concept although related to High Elven fantasy but on a different approach. I usually stay away from HE threads and don't regularly read new replies so I have no clue as to what this thread entails but as to my notion, it is something that encourages the game to bring HE finally into reality.

[Ielenia]

I usually stay away from HE threads and don't regularly read new replies so I have no clue as to what this thread entails

So you admit to "having no clue about what this thread entails"... and yet you still make a post saying your newly made thread "tears this mega thread apart". Arrogant much?

[vertigo12]

Just to make it short:

All Elves can be Nightborne once subjected to enough radation from the Nightwell but unfortunately, Thalysrra forbid it from being used.

All Elves can be Blood Elves which are technically Elves tapping into fel energy. Altough the transformation isn't to profound to transform them similar to Fel Orcs (red skins).
All Elves are Highborne except for the lower caste of NE who became Darnassian Elves. Higborne introduced during Cata into NE race are an exeption.

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So you admit to "having no clue about what this thread entails"... and yet you still make a post saying your newly made thread "tears this mega thread apart". Arrogant much?

I do have a clue as to how simple it is to deduce the content base from the title. I.E. BfA mega thread contains topic with all regards to BfA as to Legion or 9.0 megathread. i do not have a clue as to EACH INDIVIDUAL REPLIES as clarification.
The original purpose and intent of the thread is to somehow ask blizz to finally introduce HE as a playable race NOT as a character customization option. This breaks the purpose in pieces as when the next expac which definitely tackles about Zin'Ashara pre-sundering would definitely include Highbornes as all the Elf derivative races playable now are initially Highborne.

This is a High Elf mega thread not Kal'dorei megathread. There is a big difference.

[Combatbutler]

The original purpose and intent of the thread is to somehow ask blizz to finally introduce HE as a playable race NOT as a character customization option. This breaks the purpose in pieces as when the next expac which definitely tackles about Zin'Ashara pre-sundering would definitely include Highbornes as all the Elf derivative races playable now are initially Highborne.

No this thread became a Megathread because the forums were flooded with high elf threads constantly, all essentially boiling down to the same thing, so everything relating to the high elf race is to be discussed in here and nowhere else.

Mod note: This is now the officially designated High Elf discussion thread. Please keep all discussion regarding this race in here.

[vertigo12]

No this thread became a Megathread because the forums were flooded with high elf threads constantly all essentially boiling down to the same thing, so everything relating to the high elf race is to be discussed in here and nowhere else.

My main focus was about 9.0 particularly about HE being a race customization option for all elven race which I am doing now as my contribution to this discussion thread. I am talking about the future yet to come.

If you have seen or visited one of my latest thread upon my return from my long hiatus from mmo-c or wow discussion in general, I have been discissing 9.0 fairly often. To be specific the other is about 9.0 pre-patch/pre-purchase allied races.

[Ielenia]

I do have a clue as to how simple it is to deduce the content base from the title. I.E. BfA mega thread contains topic with all regards to BfA as to Legion or 9.0 megathread. i do not have a clue as to EACH INDIVIDUAL REPLIES as clarification.
The original purpose and intent of the thread is to somehow ask blizz to finally introduce HE as a playable race NOT as a character customization option. This breaks the purpose in pieces as when the next expac which definitely tackles about Zin'Ashara pre-sundering would definitely include Highbornes as all the Elf derivative races playable now are initially Highborne.

This is a High Elf mega thread not Kal'dorei megathread. There is a big difference.

This mega-thread has been created early 2018, but the desire for high elves, which is the reason for this thread, predates 2018 for a long shot.

As for your thread: post it here. There's a reason this is a mega-thread: it's so dozen of threads about one single topic litter the forums.

[vertigo12]

This mega-thread has been created early 2018, but the desire for high elves, which is the reason for this thread, predates 2018 for a long shot.

As for your thread: post it here. There's a reason this is a mega-thread: it's so dozen of threads about one single topic litter the forums.

I created and renamed it with a different title to avoid confusion and linking it here for relevance. But let me just quote what's inside:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-as-Highborne

[Combatbutler]

I created and renamed it with a different title to avoid confusion and linking it here for relevance.

It got closed, I wonder why.

Here is your viewpoint

As the title suggests,

IF the next expac would be time traveling/infinite dragon/ Black Empire or pre-sundered Azeroth,then again the hints of how thw storyline as of the current expac suggest it is HIGHLY LIKELY SO, it is logical for Blizz to finally introduce Highborne for RP flavor noto only Alliance but also Horde and that is through a quest similar to how Night Elves get their Night Warrior customization available for both Void Elves and Blood Elves and probably even Nightbornes too! This would bring Vereesa into the forefront of the storyline for a story progression along with the two Windrunner sisters and as a story moving forward to the three as they go back to their roots. Morden Evenshade would definitely br brought upfront as he is the leaders of Highborne under NEs while Thalysra would be the NPC for Nightborne and Lorthremar for BE similar to how they play in Rise of Azshara patch.

Aside from the blue eye color varrying from dark blue, bright blue, sky blue, bluegreen (for BE), blue violet(VE) both have options for skintone prior to the Highbornes becoming peach colored flesh for Blood Elves and an option for Void Elves to retain their peach colored skin tone with just void markings on their hair, hands and probably glow around them or have their eyes remain voidy. But wait,all elves could have this option unlocked for all Elves since each everyone has connection with the Highborne.
#EverybodyHappy
#ForHighElvesFans
#NotAHighElfFanaticAtAll

[vertigo12]

It got closed, I wonder why.

Here is your viewpoint

Thanks was still in the process of migrating it here. A bit delayed in doing so as I am doing things on my mobile phone and having hard time doing it real time.

Mea culpa: the title was primarily about race customization option for Elven races:Highborne

Currently in the process of editing the content apparently it got locked once again. So does it mean once a new topic with just the word Highborne automatically have to be in this thread? I was talking about Highborne not High Elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

For the sake of all that is holy, man, learn what a hypothesis is!!

I am well aware of what a hypothesis is. I am just not leaving it in splendid isolation, which seems to be your intent. There is no in game evidence supporting it therefore it is not a factor in the discussion.

Except you fail to see the reasoning for the thalassian elf model update: the blood elves became playable.

No, the Blood Elf faction of the high elf race became playable. The Blood Elves just happen to comprise the vast majority of that race, so using the term Blood Elf is pretty much synonymous with high elf. However, your logic falters because at the same time the models of the Alliance High Elves were also upgraded. The reason they were upgraded, with the exact same model, is precisely the same reason you list, their race became playable. If Blood Elves were seen as separate from Alliance High Elves, Alliance High Elves would not have been upgraded and would still be running around today with their low polygon classic models.

And the high elves, being closer cousins to the blood elves than they are to the night elves, 'hitched a ride' in the model update. If they were to become playable, I'm 99% sure they'll get a model update, to help differentiate them from blood elves.

They are not cousins to the Blood elves anymore than you are a cousin to yourself. They are the exact same race.

See above. I'm also quite amused how you say "the models themselves say it" immediately after being shown a picture of how "the models themselves say" that the thalassian elf body was only different to the night elf model in skin color only, back pre-TBC.

NPCs aren't subject to the same rules as player character models. That's pretty much a given. As High Elves of any sort weren't intended to be playable, reskinning a Night Elf rig was the cheap and easy solution. Basically, before High Elves became playable as Blood Elves, whatever happened is meaningless.

Things change with time. Populations grow, either through off-springs or others joining said population.

Many of the races of Azeroth are cited as being close to extinction. Gnomes, Tauren, Blood Elves. Yet Alliance High Elves, if seen as a separate group, have been singled out for how few they are in number and the point was made in 2005 that even the Gnomes vastly outnumber them. Elisande made the comment that they are mingling their blood with lesser races. So not only are incredibly few in number, many of those who are reproducing are not doing so with other Alliance High Elves and are instead having Half Elf children. As for others joining the population, prove it.

Yes, they can. Just as much. Just as easily. Here's one possible option just off the top of my head:

"The recent inner conflicts in the Horde has left a group of blood elves unsure of the benefits of their continued allegiance to the Horde. Those elves, disgruntled with Lor'themar's insistence in remaining with the Horde, decides to leave Silvermoon and the Horde, and seek refuge with their strangled cousins, the high elves, shunning the name 'blood elves' and returning to their original name and heritage."

There you go. A decent population boost for the high elves.

I concede that would work, but it again relies on Blood Elves willingly making that choice and, once again, we have no evidence that it has happened. What has tempted Blood Elves to defect is the promise of power offered them by the Void Elves, which again is far more in tune with the race's millenia long relationship with magic.

I never said they do. But if you want to claim void elves are a "compromise", then it's within their rights to judge if it's a worthwhile compromise or not... or if it could even be considered a 'compromise'. And considering the latest interviews regarding a possible HE customization for void elves, or even the possibility of adding actualy playable high elves to the Alliance, while the community doesn't have veto power... it seem they do have some influence.

Again, that interview, while it acknowledged the possibility, was not information volunteered by Blizzard but was posed by a question from a third party. The answer of 'it's possible' is the bare minimum non-comittal response that could be given. Now are those customizations possible? Yes, but what I object to is this false notion that it is now somehow a promise or even likely.

And yes, the pro High Elf community has the right to offer an opinion on the result that is Void Elves, but your judgement they have failed is not an absolute command for Blizzard to go back and try again. Time and again the pro High Elf community believes itself to wield far more influence than it actually does, and time and again they are disappointed. We only need to look back at the period between Blizzcon 2017 and the April Q and A to see how that community fooled itself into thinking it had changed Blizzard's mind and was on the cusp of a victory.

Alleria already demonstrated void-based powers in her very first appearance in Argus, when she saved you and Turalyon from being killed by the giant demon.

And? Shadow priests demonstrate Void based powers all the time and most of them aren't Void Elves. Being a void elf is more than using void magic, it is making the void an intrinsic part of yourself. That is what Alleria did when she consumed the fallen Naaru, it is what thalassian Elves become when they are exposed to huge amounts of concentrated void energy. Prior to become a Void Elf, Alleria was simply skillful at using void magics. Now they are a part of her.

They are.

They are not.

Except the times they said the opposite, right?


(1) Which they are;
(2) It's not. It's the closest thing (As in, "the 'closest thing' you'll ever have for that girl to pay attention to you is her laughing at you when you trip"), but it's not the fantasy the pro-high elf community is asking for;
(3) Which is enough, by itself.

Point 2 is an ad hominem attack, no matter how sly you think you are in phrasing it that way.

All I'm having here you paraphrasing Ion's words and your interpretation of said paraphrasing. Where's the quote from Ion, or any other developer, stating that "political differences are not enough for a separate race, or 'allied race'?

The guys says Blood Elves are High Elves, the only difference between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves is that they are on different factions, therefore political difference is not enough.

[Garfurion]

i mean, they are not, clearly as water, they are two times the size and eight of a regular human, this alone already si enough evidence and proof that they ARE NOT the same specie of human, they also have different racials, showing their different lineage.

two times the height of regular humans ? are we discussing the same Kul Tirans ?

If the previous two official Blizzard sources stating Kul Tirans are humans wasn't enough to convince you. How about a third ?

Alex Afrasiabi at Blizzcon 2017:

"Kul Tirans by nature are monster hunters, specifically big nasty sea monsters which has led to a much hardier breed of human like these big fellas over here." -- Alex Afrasiabi at the World Of Warcraft Whats Next Panel at BlizzCon 2017, 8:30

In case you are wondering what a "breed" is :

"A breed is a specific group of domestic animals having homogeneous appearance (phenotype), homogeneous behavior, and/or other characteristics that distinguish it from other organisms of the same species. -- wikipedia"

[Syegfryed]

two times the height of regular humans ? are we discussing the same Kul Tirans ?

kul'tirans are giant, same size as a tauren, did you even saw one?

If the previous two official Blizzard sources stating Kul Tirans are humans wasn't enough to convince you. How about a third ?

are you rly reading? who said they are not human? they are human, the same way highmountain taurens are taurens

do you think highmountain taurens are not tauren? just a different kind of tauren/human

In case you are wondering what a "breed" is :

"A breed is a specific group of domestic animals having homogeneous appearance (phenotype), homogeneous behavior, and/or other characteristics that distinguish it from other organisms of the same species. -- wikipedia"

good, right here you proof that kul'tirans humans are not just regular humans but a variation of a human unlike elves who are the exactly same, congratulations you refute yourself.

since we are using animals lets use dogs as exemple to compare with humans, a bulldog and a pit-bull are clearly dogs yet still completely different, the same way normal humans and kul'tirans are clearly humans, yet, still completely different

BE/HE are just poodles, exactly the same.

[Uthan]

Void Elf conversion is a thing, implicit in game from Void Elf numbers and explicitly stated in the polygon interview.

I have no idea where the notion that the High Elf ideology should be based around rejecting questionable magic came from. The very foundation of their race was the opposite, messing with questionable magic. Arcane is a questionable magic. It is destructive, it is addictive and it's use was like a beacon to the Burning Legion and yet the Quel'Dorei did it anyway. The only thing it had going for it was that unlike Fel and Shadow, it isn't in thrall to darker powers.

The point of divergence wasn't over the use of questionable magic, it was over draining that magic from other living things. The Alliance High Elves still had to feed their addiction after the split, they just used more difficult methods. The Warcraft encyclopedia said some went cold turkey, others used magical artifacts to sate their addiction.

While I sympathise that you feel Void Elves are a sub-par answer to what you want, the unfortunate fact is that there is no way a High Elf can be differentiated from a Blood Elf and the core reason why is that as Blood Elves are High Elves, and as Blood Elves are still acting like High Elves did from the pre-war period, an Alliance High Elf can only be differentiated by moving them away from what a true High Elf is. And as you move the Alliance High Elf away from the High Elf fantasy as embodied by the Blood Elves, then they become less and less what you want and therefore unlikely to be accepted. It was precisely this dynamic that led to the creation of Void Elves in the first place.

Regarding your points on faction distinctiveness, they do not currently undermine faction distinctiveness precisely because they are not a playable group. Being a player race accords a group a certain status among the playerbase. The Alliance High Elves' status as NPCs reflects their low population and fringe status within the Alliance.
Void Elves do not damage faction distinctiveness too much because, as everyone here surely agrees , Void Elves are not truly High Elves. They are a different flavour, a different spin, with their own culture, their own theme and their own aesthetic, but they do not conform to the trope as embodied by the Blood Elves.

I have never really given credence to the argument that Void Elves, who are truly their own thing, do more damage to the faction wall than a duplicate (which is what Alliance High Elves would be) would do. Distinctiveness is about being different, about what makes you unique. Void Elves are distinctive from Blood/High Elves. Alliance High Elves are not distinctive from Blood Elves. That Void Elves are more damaging, despite being different, than a duplicate would be...that has never made sense as an argument in my opinion.

Blizzard is unlikely to build on the perceived differences between Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves. Were they minded to, Alliance High Elves would have been added as an Allied race and Void Elves never even created. Void Elves were created with the express purpose of giving the Alliance a thalssian elf option that didn't damage the faction wall that could be it's own thing. We can already see the results of this in BFA as Void Elf NPCs are being used with increasing regularity and the number of Alliance High Elves added across all BFA can be counted one hand (four fingers, one thumb, one fist). Blizzard seems to have a long term plan for the Void Elves, and for them to fulfil that role they have to usurp a role formerly held by Alliance High Elves, that of foil to the Blood Elves.

They pretty much had one opportunity to add Alliance High Elves. Adding Void Elves has almost certainly foreclosed it. And they must have known it would even as they introduced Void Elves.

I'm sure Blizzard will confirm the more void elves being made thing eventually, I maintain it's still speculation until that point (those who take the polygon information as just that are free to do so I guess.)

Hence why I said outcasts, ie those that were banished from Silvermoon due to not accepting what they saw as questionable magic (sucking mana from living beings sounds like a pretty clear case of questionable magic to me at least?). There's also the Highvale elves who have rejected magic altogether. I vaguely recalled there being other similar instances but maybe that was just something imagined, Ion stating "a different relationship in regards to magic and the Sunwell" would imply there's something there of the sort at least, but yeah, it might not be as clear as some people make it out to be myself included (but is either way very much a theme I'd like them to expand upon for the Alliance aligned ones to help set them apart further, as said).

Moving them further and further away from that is exactly what I'd want (and probably a lot of others too). Maybe it is the use of the word High Elves that keep giving the wrong impression (not really sure what other terms would work though, as it's the only one really used for them in game etc), but I'm not interested in what a "true High Elf" and their whole magical focus etc is, I'm interested in what these "new" whatever to call them High Elves are, the ones who rejected kingdom, family and home based on their principles/friendship with other races, and who are even (to varying degrees) rejecting magic, which is a pretty big thing considering their past. Yeah, the dalarani elves complicate matters as they seemingly haven't embraced the latter concept much, and I'm not sure how that'd be easily solved, and is probably also why people see and want very different things here (the elves out in the lodges having a completely different culture than the dalarani ones who are much closer to their old ways still).

Your arguments on faction distinctiveness make as little sense to me, so let's just agree to disagree on that point then ^^ (clearly a very subjective thing no matter how you spin it)

As for why they chose Void Elves, my guess it started from them deciding they wanted a void race to help build upon what the void is and utilize when proper void content shows up, and deciding to make it void elves came after. Using the Alliance High Elves was probably ruled out as it would just complicate the whole thing too much and require a lot more work to have it make sense. Those parts of the High Elves who rejected sucking mana from living beings or even rejected magic completely probably wouldn't be too willing to use these new powers they had been cursed with, especially in the ways we've seen Void Elves used so far (which I'm sure is intended to add more morally questionable stuff to the Alliance). Starting out with more or less willing participants lets them use them more freely, which is a lot easier to justify with Blood Elves. Hard to say without knowing what their ultimate plans are but I still wish in some ways they'd just changed the story to make it fit using Helves instead and rolled with that, though I kind of get why they didn't as well.

[Aldo Hawk]

Elisande's character is intentionally bitchy, it's a shame that i have to point that out.

At the same time, we also -know- for a fact that half-races as a whole are too strange to take it as a honest commentary from Elisande's part.

Having in our knowledge the existence of only 3 alive Half-elves and maybe (i don't remember well) just another one that is dead.

I can see the motives of why half-races are so strange. Garona, the Mok'nathal and 3 alive Half-elves.

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I concede that would work, but it again relies on Blood Elves willingly making that choice and, once again, we have no evidence that it has happened. What has tempted Blood Elves to defect is the promise of power offered them by the Void Elves, which again is far more in tune with the race's millenia long relationship with magic.

You acknowledge then that Void elves already damaged Blood elf characterization having a premise that borrows from Blood elf character. Thing that cannot happen with High elves since they already are separated and already has enough build up in that regard.

Being playable would simply mean players playing as that, the Alliance High elves already exist and every time that they appeared it didn't lessened anything about Blood elves, the Alliance, the Horde, or any existing character.

Given that there's a strong case in what someone can easily point that a HE AR would not damage any faction identity at all while Void elves already did it in a magnitude High elves would not be able to do.

The same a player can ask why the same race is in both factions by looking at players or playable choices, the exact same question arises when a player sees High elves in game as part of both factions. And nothing happened. Ever.

[Ielenia]

I am well aware of what a hypothesis is.

I don't know, statements such as "it's only a hypothesis only in that it is a plausible idea" say otherwise.

No, the Blood Elf faction of the high elf race became playable.

Me: "The blood elves became playable."
You: "No. The blood elves became playable."

Seriously, dude.

They are not cousins to the Blood elves anymore than you are a cousin to yourself. They are the exact same race.

So are stormwind humans and kul'tiran humans.

NPCs aren't subject to the same rules as player character models. That's pretty much a given. As High Elves of any sort weren't intended to be playable, reskinning a Night Elf rig was the cheap and easy solution. Basically, before High Elves became playable as Blood Elves, whatever happened is meaningless.

I just love how you initially deny my point... and then immediately repeat my point in your own words. The reason high elves (and blood elves) didn't have their own model prior to TBC was because they weren't playable at the time. BEs became playable, got a new model, and the high elves 'hitched a ride' for being closer 'cousins' to the blood elves than the night elves. And hence: why high elves will look different from how they currently look when/if they become playable.

Many of the races of Azeroth are cited as being close to extinction. Gnomes, Tauren, Blood Elves. Yet Alliance High Elves, if seen as a separate group, have been singled out for how few they are in number and the point was made in 2005 that even the Gnomes vastly outnumber them. Elisande made the comment that they are mingling their blood with lesser races. So not only are incredibly few in number, many of those who are reproducing are not doing so with other Alliance High Elves and are instead having Half Elf children. As for others joining the population, prove it.

It's been 14 years. Things change.

As for Elisande: how do we know she simply did not take Veressa's example and assumed that was the case for all high elves? After all, Elisande was depicted as most evil nobles are: classist, arrogant, 'superior-than-thou'. And we only know of two example of high elves shagging with humans: the Windrunner sisters.

I concede that would work, but it again relies on Blood Elves willingly making that choice and, once again, we have no evidence that it has happened.

Dude. Stop with this "no evidence it has happened" nonsense when we're talking about hypothesis and possible future events. It doesn't matter that it hasn't happened because I'm not saying it has already happened!

Imagine this conversation, 80 years ago:
Man: "It'd be nice if we could one day get to the moon!"
'That guy': "We have no evidence that it has happened."

You're "that guy".

Again, that interview, while it acknowledged the possibility, was not information volunteered by Blizzard but was posed by a question from a third party. The answer of 'it's possible' is the bare minimum non-comittal response that could be given. Now are those customizations possible? Yes, but what I object to is this false notion that it is now somehow a promise or even likely.

So what? It's not outright denial, like you claim Blizzard's stance is.

And yes, the pro High Elf community has the right to offer an opinion on the result that is Void Elves, but your judgement they have failed is not an absolute command for Blizzard to go back and try again.

It doesn't mean people will stop asking just because they've been delivered something they weren't asking for.

And? Shadow priests demonstrate Void based powers all the time and most of them aren't Void Elves.

Except she's not a priest, is she? No. No, she is not. And remember: Xe'ra imprisoned Alleira for dealing with the void, under Locus Walker's tutelage.

Point 2 is an ad hominem attack, no matter how sly you think you are in phrasing it that way.

WHAT!? How in the hell is point #2 an "ad hominem attack"? You mean the example for "as close you'll get"? Dude, I wasn't even talking about you. I simply used the word "you" as the 'generic you', not you specifically.

If I were to specify someone, the example would've become much larger than it already was.

The guys says Blood Elves are High Elves, the only difference between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves is that they are on different factions, therefore political difference is not enough.

No, that's your inference. For all we know, other races fit the previous expansions' stories better.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and before I forget, something that just crossed my mind:

I concede that would work, but it again relies on Blood Elves willingly making that choice and, once again, we have no evidence that it has happened.

Yes, it has happened: void elves. Other than the original research group, the rest are blood elves that willingly made that choice.

[Garfurion]

kul'tirans are giant, same size as a tauren, did you even saw one?

In game ? yes. In real-life not

Actually Kul Tiran Females seem to be around 7'3" tall and Males around 7'9.4". Stormwind Females are around 5'8.5" and Males 6'0.8". That really means there a factor 1.27-1.28 height difference (if my calculations are correct), not a factor two difference as you claimed:

i mean, they are not, clearly as water, they are two times the size and eight of a regular human, this alone already si enough evidence and proof that they ARE NOT the same specie of human, they also have different racials, showing their different lineage.

Tauren Height depends on if they are hunched or not. Female Tauren are between 7'8.6" - 8' and Male Tauren between 7'2.4"- 8'9" so hunched Tauren are similar in height but fully upright Mulgore Tauren are significantly taller than Kul Tiran.

are you rly reading? who said they are not human? they are human, the same way highmountain taurens are taurens

You claimed they weren't the same species:

i mean, they are not, clearly as water, they are two times the size and eight of a regular human, this alone already si enough evidence and proof that they ARE NOT the same specie of human, they also have different racials, showing their different lineage.

I just showed a lore source which makes it clear they are the same species.

do you think highmountain taurens are not tauren? just a different kind of tauren/human

If you mean are Highmountain Tauren, Tauren as in are Night-Elves and Blood Elves both Elves then clearly yes.

If you mean are the Highmountain Tauren the same species as Mulgore Tauren then I think it's a bit unclear.

The Blessing of Cenarius which defines the Hightmountain Tauren and gives them their Moose Horns is inherited by their offspring (unlike the Worgen curse), but a blessing of Cenarius doesn't always have to mean your species changes.

Malfurion was also blessed by Cenarius although he got antlers, not moose horns so it could just be a different kind of blessing.

"Sprouting from his forehead and thrusting forward were two proud antlers. More than two feet in length, they were no defect of birth, but rather the gift and the mark of Cenarius. Few there were of the druids who bore the four-legged, hooved demigod’s blessing and of that few, the first and greatest was he who lay here." -- Stormrage

We know there is no significant cultural difference between Highmountain an Mulgore Tauren, as Ion Hazzikostas stated when asked about Allied Race class options:

"Obviously when you look at the Highmountain Tauren, they’re culturally very similar to the [regular] Tauren. [They have] moose horns versus bull horns. But the question of, what does it make sense for them to be, we came up with the same answers as the regular Tauren." -- Ion Hazzikostas in a Forbes interview

I haven't been able to find a lore source stating they are officially different species, or an official definition when a species diverges from another species in WoW. The scientific definitions certainly don't seem to apply in WoW. Therefore I don't think we can tell if Highmountain and Mulgore Tauren are the same species. If you know of any other lore sources that do give us a definitive answer then please share them with us

good, right here you proof that kul'tirans humans are not just regular humans but a variation of a human unlike elves who are the exactly same, congratulations you refute yourself.

How did I refute myself ?

And which elves "are the exactly same"? (Please add a link to the lore source).

[FlubberPuddy]

We know there is no significant cultural difference between Highmountain an Mulgore Tauren, as Ion Hazzikostas stated when asked about Allied Race class options:

"Obviously when you look at the Highmountain Tauren, they’re culturally very similar to the [regular] Tauren. [They have] moose horns versus bull horns. But the question of, what does it make sense for them to be, we came up with the same answers as the regular Tauren." -- Ion Hazzikostas in a Forbes interview

Man idk how you do it, but finding this info from when it was there all along. So we have admission by "Word of God" that "culturally very similar" isn't an issue for becoming an Allied Race. Also for the class bit he speaks of "what it makes sense for them to be".

And since we know High Elves are more likely to be playable on Alliance than become some new customization option for Blood Elves since it wouldn't "make sense for them to be" High Elves with blue eyes when that truly nullifies their story.

Just like Mag'har had to be added as a separate player option instead of becoming attached to Green Orcs.

[Syegfryed]

In game ? yes. In real-life not

then why you proceed to point out ingame size model as source?

not a factor two difference as you claimed:

its a big factor of difference if the average of a race is that high compared to the variation of the race

You claimed they weren't the same species:

because its way more easy to talk about when we talk about specie, breed is not something objective or biologically verifiable classification, like its said in your post,

I just showed a lore source which makes it clear they are the same species.

it don't show rly, by real life methods and evidences we would put then as different race/specie of human, or at least a sub-specie, like we did with ancient humans like H. neanderthalensis H. habilis etc.

If you mean are Highmountain Tauren, Tauren as in are Night-Elves and Blood Elves both Elves then clearly yes.

so?

If you mean are the Highmountain Tauren the same species as Mulgore Tauren then I think it's a bit unclear.

its the same thing as kul'tirans and normal humans

The Blessing of Cenarius which defines the Hightmountain Tauren and gives them their Moose Horns is inherited by their offspring (unlike the Worgen curse), but a blessing of Cenarius doesn't always have to mean your species changes.

they are different enough to be considered another specie/race or at least a subspecie/race

We know there is no significant cultural difference between Highmountain an Mulgore Tauren,

being culturally very similar don't mean they do not have significant cultural difference

I haven't been able to find a lore source stating they are officially different species, or an official definition when a species diverges from another species in WoW. The scientific definitions certainly don't seem to apply in WoW. Therefore I don't think we can tell if Highmountain and Mulgore Tauren are the same species. If you know of any other lore sources that do give us a definitive answer then please share them with us

its because we can have dna or genetic studies about then, so we can only differentiate species/races in wow by the old method of comparrison and morphology

they are clearly different morphological, and with other factors like genetic isolation show how they can already be new species/race

How did I refute myself ?

cause it show that kul'tirans are not regular humans

And which elves "are the exactly same"? (Please add a link to the lore source).

HE and BE are exactly the same, said many times by the devs and lore sources

Blood elves are, biologically and physiologically, high elves

The Warcraft Encyclopedia


unlike other allied races

for HE become another thing they would need some sort of speciation, this mean hundred of years of isolation and different conditions of "evolution"( something did not happen and will not so soon) or have some kind of magic to change then( and this already happened: void elves)

[Alixie]

]i mean, they are not, clearly as water, they are two times the size and eight of a regular human, this alone already si enough evidence and proof that they ARE NOT the same specie of human, they also have different racials, showing their different lineage.


its rly funny when you guys want to use "word of god" yet ignore every other "word of god" against the HE shenanigan, rly funny, but again, this still don't proof your point, yes kul'tirans are humans, yes highmountain taurens are taurens, dark iron dwarf are dwarves

yet just not the same humans/tauren/dwarf, is not hard to grasp.

Because fat, tall, skinny, muscular, pale and dark skinned humans are found throughout all Human Kingdoms, Kul Tirans are not a race of exclusively fat humans. Look at all those famous Kul Tirans that use the totally separate race, the "Stormwind Human" model. You cant say the same for Tauren for example. The Moose Horns are only found in Highmountain.

Ironically, you keep insisting that we can play multiple versions of the same race by giving the new group their own racial, superficial, and ancestral differences, which is the argument in favor of High Elves. "Oh hey, maybe these guys are bigger because their environment requires them to live like lumberjacks instead of the ones living pampered in a magical city."

Lets say the Kul Tirans have Drust ancestry. (Even though all humans already have Vrykul ancestry) Why cant High Elves have Human ancestry that changes their appearances too? We've got confirmed mixed blood elves, but no confirmed half Drust Humans. Or are we only allowed to pull mix blood theories out of the air about Kul Tirans, but mixed blood elves are forbidden?

the humans were born from vrykuls directly a degeneration from the curse of flesh, it was not a gradative evolution

Vrykul are already "degenerations" of Iron Vrykuls, because they are afflicted with the Curse of Flesh. They are half giants made of meat not metal. A small group of Vrykul in Northrend were producing weak, deformed offspring. Most were culled, few escaped to the EK and started Humanity. The parents of these offspring were killed by Skadi to stop this bloodline of birthing more freaks. Apparently this worked because the Vrykul continued to exist as thier own race. We hung out with them in Stormhiem.

yeah, drust ancestry its not for everyone, you play those ones.

Citation needed.