1. #10441
    Stood in the Fire Strippling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    So all this fluster is made to prevent the addition, but as we know it makes one of his other arguments false. That somehow adding High Elves would destroy faction integrity.
    Blizzard themselves said high elfs would blur faction lines. Or are you going to put your fingers in your ears and pretend they never said that? Sorry bud, but your argument falls flat on your face.
    That one misunderstands much... and underestimates more - Broxigar the Red Axe

  2. #10442
    It's funny just viewing this thread for the last 200 pages has been the same 2 or 3 people going against albeit a few of the same names but a lot of new names only for them to be chased off by the foaming at the mouth 3 people who are purely against more thing for the Alliance faction.

    Keep up the good work guys you keep these lovely people occupied.

  3. #10443
    Warchief Benomatic's Avatar
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    Finally having complete factions after all this time surely should be a priority for the senior staff at Blizzard. It's 24 years in the making now.

    Horde finally having Ogres and the Alliance finally having High Elves would bound to reintroduce or reinforce faction pride and identity.

    We will finally have what we need and what we want.

    Already having both races in their respective factions but not making them playable is counter productive, unless the holding back of them being implemented is for a grandiose gesture.

    At this point those, the desire to have these races isn't fan service, but to finally complete the two factions initial line up of alliances.

  4. #10444
    Quote Originally Posted by Riversong View Post
    It's funny just viewing this thread for the last 200 pages has been the same 2 or 3 people going against albeit a few of the same names but a lot of new names only for them to be chased off by the foaming at the mouth 3 people who are purely against more thing for the Alliance faction.

    Keep up the good work guys you keep these lovely people occupied.
    There's not much point in arguing with people who only concern themselves with trying to be right, unfortunately. That's why it's better to have a discussion and ignore those people and their responses, but at least people attempt to enlighten them.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  5. #10445
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Missed the point much, uh?
    No, they are nothing alike, but people said they were just like you are saying that high elves are blood elves.
    High elves are represented in-game by unique skins not available to players, just like dark irons were. If they were the same thing, there would be no need for unique skins. But you are acting just like people comparing that dwarf skin with a dark iron, when they are clearly not the same.
    In regards to the unique skins not available to players on High Elf models, those skins are 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16.

    Skin 12 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
    Skin 13 appears to be the same shade as skin 7.
    Skin 14 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
    Skin 15 appears to be the same shade as skin 2.
    And Skin 16 appears to be the same shade as skin 9.

    In fact the greatest bother I had is that skins 12 and 14 look incredibly similar to each other and to skin 3.

    What is the only difference between these skins and already available Blood Elf skins? The blue eyes, which Blood Elf players such as myself hope will be made available as an option for us once customization is extended for all races (and Ion did heavily hint that separate eye colour would be among the first such customization options offered when it arrives).

    That is the sole reason these skins exist. Alliance High Elves do not have access to a unique set of palette options.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    If they were the same, there wouldn't be 4 unique high elf skins to differentiate them.
    They are not the same thing. You can tell a non-faction aligned blood elf, like Valeera, from a non-aligned high elf, like Inanis. And that's because they are not solely defined by faction, and they are not the same thing.
    They are the same thing in terms of biology, culture and aesthetics. Chris Metzen and Ion Hazzikostas have both said Blood Elves are High Elves, Chris when saying how Blood Elves are Warcraft's take on High Elves in much the same way Night Elves are their take on Dark Elves, and Ion in response to a question regarding why High Elves weren't playable (his answer being that they were). As for the 'four unique skins', that is covered above. Now, I would wager you may attempt to argue that the skins above are actually subtly different or look different in game, but I would ask you to recall how in the 7.3.2 PTR you thought Void Elf skin 3 had been significantly lightened and rushed to these forums and the official forums proclaiming that Blizzard was listening to your feedback to 'improve Void Elves'. And then it was pointed out to you it was the lighting in that room that Void Elf npc was standing in. You have form in misinterpreting skin tone.

    You are also representative of the group that is clearly pursuing a pure High Elf aesthetic within the Alliance, rather than the lore, as your posting from that time showed you would have been happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, which of course would have still been a Void Elf. It is ironic you would be happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, but refuse to take the option of playing a High Elf in a Void Elf skin which has been opened since it was confirmed Void Elves can recruit other Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Both blood elves and high elves reckognize themselves as different. Or else they'd not call themselves and each other by different names. They may be kin, but they are not the same.
    They recognise their currently divergent paths, but their paths diverged in the very recent past and has had no time to produce any meaningful difference aside from an eye colour change. And Elisande recognised where the Alliance High Elf path leads, complete assimilation into Human society. When an Alliance High Elf deviates, it is not a cultural innovation as Traycor pretends would happen. It is recognition of 'Human Potential'.

    Behold the future of the few Alliance High Elves who remain.

    https://ibb.co/12mgNzR


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    And yet there's still high elf characters with unique skins in the Alliance, doing Alliance stuff, and refusing to be called blood elves.
    Blood elves rose as the bigger group of thalassian elves after the high elf downfall, but high elves still exist, so blood elves may be a spin of high elf, but the original high elves are still there.
    As shown, the unique skin boils down to eye colour which is the subject of an ongoing request we may see movement on shortly.
    Blood Elves are the original High Elves, they are the evolution and redefinition of what a High Elf is, Warcraft's spin on the High Elf trope.
    If you attempt to cite Alleria, Alleria is no longer a High Elf. She is a Void Elf and has declared herself to be a Void Elf. Even then, all that she has which is unique are tattoos which, given they were available in Warcraft 2, are part of the heritage of the High Elves and which should therefore be available to Blood Elves. Another customization request for the future for Blood Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    And yet they've acknowledge us several times since Blizzcon 2017. We will not be silent anymore.
    Please get a sense of perspective. We will not be silent anymore? You are hardly the Uighurs, the Falun Gong or the Rohingya. As for being acknowledged several times since Blizzcon 2017, I count two occasions and both of them were no.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    There's not much point in arguing with people who only concern themselves with trying to be right, unfortunately. That's why it's better to have a discussion and ignore those people and their responses, but at least people attempt to enlighten them.
    The High Elf discord echo chamber link can be found on wowhead. If that's the sort of 'discussion' you seek, shorn of all dissent. Although I imagine a discussion where you all agree with each other would probably get dull pretty quick.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Riversong View Post
    It's funny just viewing this thread for the last 200 pages has been the same 2 or 3 people going against albeit a few of the same names but a lot of new names only for them to be chased off by the foaming at the mouth 3 people who are purely against more thing for the Alliance faction.

    Keep up the good work guys you keep these lovely people occupied.
    Kaira I believe we have been over this, not opposed to new things for the Alliance as long as it isn't something that is currently a part of the Horde.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not "arrogant", because they're really not playable. Blood elves are not high elves in terms of what it's being asked for. That's like saying non-worgen gilnean humans are playable... which they aren't.

    Blood elves were once called 'high elves', but no longer. There is a serious divide between the two, now. Not all high elves are blood elves, and people wanting high elves want those who did not follow Kael'thas' commands nor accepted the idea of draining magic from living beings. They want the thalassian elves who did not join the Horde, and opted to stay with the Alliance.
    It is arrogant. Multiple occasions the developers have said that Blood Elves are High Elves. It is therefore arrogant to presume that the pro High Elf community has a superior understanding to the people who created the universe. And note, this includes Chris Metzen.

    That Alliance High Elves exist is true, but they are too small in number (lore reason) and essentially identical to Blood Elves (gameplay reason) to become playable.
    If the desire for the thalassian elves who never joined the Horde, then you can play your Void Elf as a High Elf who has joined up with Alleria and embraced the void, as the High Elven Wayfarers inside Telogrus are clearly preparing to and as Moorgard clearly said was possible.


    "Here’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?


    “They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”

    This particular point has been the subject of ferocious denial by the pro High Elf community. The interviewer is asking Moorgard where are Void Elf numbers coming from, and Moorgard says They start out as a small group. It is ridiculous in my opinion that we have to parse his words so closely to establish intent when the intent is explicit, but the denial is strong here. The use of the verb 'start' implies the beginning of something, in this case their group. Their group started at a small size, these are the few Elves who accompanied Umbric at the initial transformation event. As 'start' implies the beginning of a process, it stands to reason that the process is still continuing.

    He talks about the Elves who found out about them, who are want to undergo a similar process. 'Undergo a similar process', not learn about the Void, or master the void, 'Undergo a similar process'. When we talk about the process that initial batch of Void Elves underwent do we mean their learning about the void? Of course we don't, we mean them getting zapped and growing tentacles. Just as here it means other Elves volunteering to get zapped and become Void Elves.

    People want to pretend Void Elves cannot expand their numbers because they would mourn the loss of the retort against the still valid Alliance High Elf population issue and because it means Void Elves are going to be a fairly permanent feature now. A feature intended to replace Alliance High Elves as the thalassian elves of the Alliance.

    But that is immaterial, the facts are pretty clear. And if you want to play as an Elf who never betrayed the Alliance, you can.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-05-05 at 11:22 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  6. #10446
    Regarding the city for high elves, it should be an instanced zone in a district of Stormwind. In much the same way as the rogue class domain in Dalaran.
    It should be remembered that AR zones are instantiated and only for AR.




    I forgot to mention that high elf NPCs have light blue, silvery white (Vereesa) hair colors that blood elves do not have.

    It would be one more option to add to the playable high elves.
    Last edited by Frenchvince; 2019-05-05 at 11:33 AM.

  7. #10447
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It is arrogant. Multiple occasions the developers have said that Blood Elves are High Elves.
    And it the latest "occasion" the developers said that 'high elf customization for void elves' is possible. Also, the developers also said "kul'Tirans are humans"... but we have kul'tirans as a separate race.

    It is therefore arrogant to presume that the pro High Elf community has a superior understanding to the people who created the universe. And note, this includes Chris Metzen.
    So the famous "Red Shirt Guy" really did not have a superior understanding than the people who created the universe?

    That Alliance High Elves exist is true, but they are too small in number (lore reason) and essentially identical to Blood Elves (gameplay reason) to become playable.
    The "lore reason" is just a load of bull considering they added void elves, which are apparently even fewer in number, since they start as small research group that got stuck in the void. As far as "researching how to turn an elf into void elf", I have not found any mention that this research on this process wasn't still on-going. And what stops a blood elf abandon Silvermoon and the Horde and join the high elves again? Blood elves that no longer can take living in the Horde, or follow Lor'themar's commands? And considering the amount of high elves we see around, they do seem to have a decently sized population.

    As for the "gameplay reason", it's also a load of bull, considering void elves share the exact same model save for hairstyles and skin textures. Put on a robe or full armor and you'll be figuring out if it's "friend or foe" by the players' outline/name/health bar color long before you figure out through the very minor body and hair colors. Same thing with the nightborne and night elves.

    "Here’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?
    Same as above: what stops a blood elf leaving Silvermoon and the Horde, and ask to join the high elves? Blood elves that want no part in a Horde that continues to fracture itself, over and over?

    And if you want to play as an Elf who never betrayed the Alliance, you can.
    We can't, because the void elves are blood elves, not high elves.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  8. #10448
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    In regards to the unique skins not available to players on High Elf models, those skins are 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16.

    Skin 12 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
    Skin 13 appears to be the same shade as skin 7.
    Skin 14 appears to be the same shade as skin 3.
    Skin 15 appears to be the same shade as skin 2.
    And Skin 16 appears to be the same shade as skin 9.
    Holy stubborness, Batman! I meant skin as the textures, not the skin color. There are several high elf-only skins that differentiate them for in-game purposes. You can tell a high elf apart from a blood elf, and that's a fact. You can identify a neutral high elf and a neutral blood elf, because it's not just about faction. No one calls Valeera a high elf just because she aids the Alliance.

    The playable versions will make the differences even more stark, just like dark irons got new skin tones, more noticiable eyes, tatoo options and glowy beards.

    What is the only difference between these skins and already available Blood Elf skins? The blue eyes, which Blood Elf players such as myself hope will be made available as an option for us once customization is extended for all races (and Ion did heavily hint that separate eye colour would be among the first such customization options offered when it arrives).
    You won't get it, because you play as a blood elf, not a high elf.

    They are the same thing in terms of biology, culture and aesthetics.
    Biology? Kinda, but the blood elves were slightly mutated by magic and high elves weren't.
    Culture and aesthetics? Don't confuse the limitations of art assets for NPCs with what a playable race would get.
    High elf lodges even use night elf architecture, just because Blizzard didn't bother to work on them.
    And high elves have been using Dalaran aesthetics for some time. Every place that uses blood elf buildings are bases built during the Second or Third War. Apart from those.

    Chris Metzen and Ion Hazzikostas have both said Blood Elves are High Elves
    You are twisting their words.
    Specially Chris' words. He uses the high elves as the origin point of the blood elves, but he makes a clear difference between past and present.
    And even Ion reckognizes that they are different in eye color and relationship to magic. Notice both physical and cultural differences.

    You are also representative of the group that is clearly pursuing a pure High Elf aesthetic within the Alliance, rather than the lore, as your posting from that time showed you would have been happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, which of course would have still been a Void Elf. It is ironic you would be happy with a High Elf skin on a Void Elf, but refuse to take the option of playing a High Elf in a Void Elf skin which has been opened since it was confirmed Void Elves can recruit other Elves.
    I won't bother arguing against a strawman.
    It's not up to you to tell me what I want.
    And you call us arrogant!

    They recognise their currently divergent paths, but their paths diverged in the very recent past and has had no time to produce any meaningful difference aside from an eye colour change. And Elisande recognised where the Alliance High Elf path leads, complete assimilation into Human society. When an Alliance High Elf deviates, it is not a cultural innovation as Traycor pretends would happen. It is recognition of 'Human Potential'.

    Behold the future of the few Alliance High Elves who remain.

    https://ibb.co/12mgNzR
    Who cares? Gimme that. You clearly don't value it, but we do.
    If we wanted blood elves on the Alliance, we'd be happy with void elves.
    But we want high elves instead, and that includes them proudly being integrated into the Alliance.

  9. #10449
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    And you call us arrogant!
    Are you saying the Alliance High Elf stance isn't arrogant?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Who cares? Gimme that. You clearly don't value it, but we do.
    That, that is the definition of being arrogant. To hell with lore, to hell with the devs and their stances, to hell with other players thoughts and opinions, give us what we want.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

    To the High Elfers out there... If it doesn't workout how you believe/want don't try to paint Blizzard as the bad guy for your own hype building.

  10. #10450
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And it the latest "occasion" the developers said that 'high elf customization for void elves' is possible. Also, the developers also said "kul'Tirans are humans"... but we have kul'tirans as a separate race.
    And has been pointed out often since, that was not a possibility brought up by Blizzard but was brought up instead by the Lost Codex guys. As Ion said 'anything is possible'. For those who want Alliance High Elves, the fact Holinka was nodding along as the Lost Codex guys described Void Elves as filling the 'void where the High Elves are' and then quickly segued from his affirmation that, to paraphrase, 'anything is possible' into a commentary on keeping things civil on the forums...I would find that very discouraging in terms of how the request is perceived.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So the famous "Red Shirt Guy" really did not have a superior understanding than the people who created the universe?
    You mean the incident where one minor NPC was mistaken for another minor NPC? And which, when it was pointed out to Blizzard, they changed? I'm going to make the argument that that is a very different situation in that mixing up two minor NPCs is quite different from mixing up entire races. And when it was pointed out to Blizzard that some people really want Alliance High Elves, they didn't 'fix' the oversight as they did with the two wildhammer dwarves, they restated their position that Blood Elves are High Elves and that Void Elves are an Alliance alternative.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The "lore reason" is just a load of bull considering they added void elves, which are apparently even fewer in number, since they start as small research group that got stuck in the void. As far as "researching how to turn an elf into void elf", I have not found any mention that this research on this process wasn't still on-going. And what stops a blood elf abandon Silvermoon and the Horde and join the high elves again? Blood elves that no longer can take living in the Horde, or follow Lor'themar's commands? And considering the amount of high elves we see around, they do seem to have a decently sized population.
    Nothing stops a Blood Elf defecting to the High Elves. The moment you find an in game example or someone on the dev team saying it's possible is the moment it will stop being merely a hypothesis.

    As for the number of High Elves you see around, given their time and again referenced low population, unless that NPC has a name it is likely you are seeing the same small group of elves moving from zone to zone. Someone guarding Dalaran in Wrath could have been present on the Isle of Thunder in MOP, could have been one of the few to accompany the assault on Suramar and could be one of the two High Elves maintaining the shield aboard the Alliance airship in the warfront.

    We do have implicit in game evidence that Void Elves are converting other Elves into Void Elves, namely the Elves now clustering in Telogrus delighted they can study shadow magic and the fact the in game representation of Void Elf numbers is completely at odds with the tiny group present at the initial event that created them. Coupled with the explicit confirmation from Moorgard in the polygon interview that they can create Void Elves, and the end result is that the lore based argument against Alliance High Elves is not rendered moot by Void Elves. Blizzard can always handwave away Void Elves as being Blood Elves AND High Elves who have joined recently, whereas any Alliance High Elves who dies (or becomes a Void Elf) is pretty much irreplaceable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    As for the "gameplay reason", it's also a load of bull, considering void elves share the exact same model save for hairstyles and skin textures. Put on a robe or full armor and you'll be figuring out if it's "friend or foe" by the players' outline/name/health bar color long before you figure out through the very minor body and hair colors. Same thing with the nightborne and night elves.
    Then I fail to see what your problem is. If the differences are virtually invisible, then dress up in a suit of armour and pretend your Void Elf is a noble High Elf. Or is it because you would know it isn't the real thing that that is an unacceptable answer? Perhaps those of opposed don't feel too aggrieved at Void Elves for the same reason they are unsatisfactory to you, because we know that while a Void Elf may have been a Blood/Alliance High Elf, it no longer is?

    That difference is important in the end.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    We can't, because the void elves are blood elves, not high elves.
    Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Your demand is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the developers. If you accept the developers at face value, that Blood Elves are High Elves, then the absurdity of the request becomes manifest because you admit that the race you seek is already playable. This is of course why there is a refusal to accept this most basic fact, because to accept it is the beginning of understanding as to why Blizzard is so resistant to the idea. So even if there was zero evidence for Alliance High Elves embracing the path of the void, you would still be playing a high elf transformed by the void when playing a void elf.

    Having said that, Moorgard confirmed other Elves can be recruited into being Void Elves. High Elves are actually in Telogrus right now, learning. The Void Elf racial leader, Alleria, skipped the Blood Elf stage when she became a Void Elf albeit a unique kind of Void Elf.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-05-05 at 02:55 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  11. #10451
    The Lightbringer The-Shan's Avatar
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    This thread is giving me brain damage
    thinly veiled high elf thread

  12. #10452
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    Are you saying the Alliance High Elf stance isn't arrogant?
    Asking for something is not arrogance.
    Pretending to know what others think or can or can't do is.

    That, that is the definition of being arrogant. To hell with lore, to hell with the devs and their stances, to hell with other players thoughts and opinions, give us what we want.
    To hell with lore? You know high elves exist in lore, right? You can see them in-game, you can quest with them. We are not asking for anything that isn't supported by lore.
    To hell with devs and their stances? You know this is a game, and that there's a constant back-and-forth between dev plans and players wishes, right? Devs are not unquestionable gods.
    To hell with other players thoughts and opinions? We just want a new option, we are not taking anything from anyone. No one is losing nothing.

  13. #10453
    Herald of the Titans FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Blizzard themselves said high elfs would blur faction lines. Or are you going to put your fingers in your ears and pretend they never said that? Sorry bud, but your argument falls flat on your face.
    "in an expansion where the faction conflict is so prominent" there was a desire for them to make Allied Races that were more distinct. Don't put your fingers in your ear and forget the context in which he was speaking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    As shown, the unique skin boils down to eye colour which is the subject of an ongoing request we may see movement on shortly.
    Blood Elves are the original High Elves, they are the evolution and redefinition of what a High Elf is, Warcraft's spin on the High Elf trope.
    If you attempt to cite Alleria, Alleria is no longer a High Elf. She is a Void Elf and has declared herself to be a Void Elf. Even then, all that she has which is unique are tattoos which, given they were available in Warcraft 2, are part of the heritage of the High Elves and which should therefore be available to Blood Elves. Another customization request for the future for Blood Elves.
    And here it is ladies and gentlemen! Obelisk finally throwing the gloves off and outright saying all the brainstorming for High Elves here and elsewhere will just go ahead and go to Blood Elves.

    Even being as ridiculous as citing Alleria's design coming WCII to mean that should also go to Blood Elves when she's got a specifically Alliance aesthetic going on as an Alliance leader.

    This is what I'm talking about, this is how you know when the pro helf arguments are taking an effect.

    Blizzard would be shit-canned to take customization ideas created by and so clearly meant for members of the Alliance and just plant them onto the Blood Elves. This is a straight up nonsensical statement happening right here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    That, that is the definition of being arrogant. To hell with lore, to hell with the devs and their stances, to hell with other players thoughts and opinions, give us what we want.
    As if fans of Sethrak and Gilbins aren't trying to do the similar things that we're doing here. Stop trying to enforce some pristine level of etiquette that fans of High Elves need to abide by or something if they're not doing anything more or less than what other fan race requests are doing.

    The only thing different here is developers responding to and acknowledging the high elf request which allows the fans to then reorganize their requests by working with developer statements.

    Unless you believe that if say Blizzard said something like "Sethrak would have trouble putting helmets on" that Sethrak fans wouldn't be doing what they could to show Blizzard playable Sethrak are possible with a proposed solution to the helmet issue?

    It actually is something that has happened already because other players were saying such a thing, so that group went ahead and showed how it can work.

    Exactly the same as High Elf fans are doing here, so again - don't try to put some extra requirements on this group specifically that isn't being required of other groups. High Elf fans don't all need to be paragons of virtue in order to get their request playable, we just gotta be as respectful about it as any other person.

    If someone starts showing disrespect then it makes sense to not give them the time of day either, "treat others how you wish to be treated" and most High Elf fans aren't the ones to be starting off with saying things like "arrogance".

  14. #10454
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Holy stubborness, Batman! I meant skin as the textures, not the skin color. There are several high elf-only skins that differentiate them for in-game purposes. You can tell a high elf apart from a blood elf, and that's a fact. You can identify a neutral high elf and a neutral blood elf, because it's not just about faction. No one calls Valeera a high elf just because she aids the Alliance.
    The skins are different only in the eye colour they have on them. The skins are player character quality, and housed on the Blood Elf model because High Elves and Blood Elves are the same race.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    The playable versions will make the differences even more stark, just like dark irons got new skin tones, more noticiable eyes, tatoo options and glowy beards.
    The Dark Iron Dwarf model built on differences that were already there. Blood Elves and High Elves are the exact same race in terms of culture, theme and aesthetics. There is nothing to build upon.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    You won't get it, because you play as a blood elf, not a high elf.
    Blood Elves are High Elves, and if eye colour reflects the energy coursing through their body, I as an arcane wielding mage should be able to have blue eyes as much as a Paladin and Priest is able to have golden.



    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Biology? Kinda, but the blood elves were slightly mutated by magic and high elves weren't.
    Culture and aesthetics? Don't confuse the limitations of art assets for NPCs with what a playable race would get.
    High elf lodges even use night elf architecture, just because Blizzard didn't bother to work on them.
    And high elves have been using Dalaran aesthetics for some time. Every place that uses blood elf buildings are bases built during the Second or Third War. Apart from those.
    Blood Elves and High Elves are biologically identical. The Fel tainted changed the energy emitting from their eyes. That fel taint is now being cleansed by the Sunwell, on which both groups feed.
    Culturally and aesthetically they are pretty much identical, except where they are beginning to be assimilated into human culture. Assimilation into humanity is a far cry from the 'wood elf concepts' Traycor put at the start of this thread, which are a dead end because the chances of Blizzard undercutting their actually Wood Elves, the Night Elves, is pretty much zero.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    You are twisting their words.
    Specially Chris' words. He uses the high elves as the origin point of the blood elves, but he makes a clear difference between past and present.
    And even Ion reckognizes that they are different in eye color and relationship to magic. Notice both physical and cultural differences.
    Really? Chris was quite clear that Blood Elves are their twist on High Elves, I don't think he was even considering those few Alliance High Elves who chose exile. Blood Elves are the High Elves of the Warcraft universe, and over ten years later Ion Hazzikostas stood by that. At the end of the day, all you have to go on is the eye colour you continually come back to...and on which Ion promised us contact lenses. We shall see where that goes of course, but the thing is, nobody really thinks Blizzard is going to base an entire Allied race on an eye colour difference. For evidence I cite a.) common sense and b.) the fact that when offered the opportunity to do so they went out of their way to invent Void Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Who cares? Gimme that. You clearly don't value it, but we do.
    If we wanted blood elves on the Alliance, we'd be happy with void elves.
    But we want high elves instead, and that includes them proudly being integrated into the Alliance.
    It is hard to be proudly integrated into the Alliance when the last meaningful interaction between the two was the Blood Elves (who are the High Elves) leaving the Alliance. Void Elves are the variant created to give you a sort of High Elf without undermining the faction distinctiveness of the Horde.
    IF Blizzard decides to take any further action, it will be to either give the Void Elves some High Elf like (not High Elf exact) customization or a Half Elf allied race. The chances of them creating a third thalassian option in the game is incredibly low...and the chances of them creating a fourth so as to balance the Alliance having two bites at thalassian elves whereas the Horde (where the vast, vast majority of the race resides) only having one is even more vanishingly low.

    You fail to appreciate that Blizzard would have to consider a whole slew of additional factors in regards to the creation of a High Elf allied race now because they had one opportunity to do it cleanly, and they created Void Elves instead. As for myself, I focus my opposition entirely on the undermining of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft universe and how it would compromise the integrity of the Horde faction.

    Something not really articulated in this thread, but which you can be sure Blizzard has to factor in, is the impact of playable Alliance High Elves on the position of Void Elves as THE thalassian elves of the Alliance.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  15. #10455
    Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.

  16. #10456
    Herald of the Titans FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Having said that, Moorgard confirmed other Elves can be recruited into being Void Elves. High Elves are actually in Telogrus right now, learning. The Void Elf racial leader, Alleria, skipped the Blood Elf stage when she became a Void Elf albeit a unique kind of Void Elf.
    Moorgard literally says in the same quotation, "they're not recruiting" and this is exactly why that piece of information wasn't plastered around media sites. Because he and everyone else besides you it seems understands the way in which a Void Elf came to be. "Seeing if they could replicate the process" doesn't mean "they are able to replicate the process".

    Another case of twisting a developers words to suit your own instead of taking what is said at face value.

  17. #10457
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.
    Because he needs some everyday hobby. Also, I learn more lore here.

  18. #10458
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Because he needs some everyday hobby. Also, I learn more lore here.
    True I suppose. He tends to twist lore to his agenda though, completely ignoring the variety and subfactions the High elves have in the Alliance to try and lump them all as identical to Blood elves.

    If you want to get a deeper understanding of High and Blood elves, check their respective wowpedia page, then check also the Silver Covenant, Quel'danil and Allerian Stronghold pages.

  19. #10459
    Herald of the Titans FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    This thread is giving me brain damage
    Run and never look back D':

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.
    I find it interesting to set straight some of the things he mentions because he takes quotes and misrepresents them, when literally in what he quotes it doesn't say what he interprets.

    Even though he has on me ignore so he doesn't get to see my responses until someone quotes them. Then he replies to my post indirectly once he sees it.

    Crazy how some people can be that.....(word that would probably get me banned) silly, let's go with silly.

  20. #10460
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    And has been pointed out often since, that was not a possibility brought up by Blizzard but was brought up instead by the Lost Codex guys. As Ion said 'anything is possible'.
    I'd say "high elf customization for void elves" is included in the "anything". Do you not?

    You mean the incident where one minor NPC was mistaken for another minor NPC? And which, when it was pointed out to Blizzard, they changed? I'm going to make the argument that that is a very different situation in that mixing up two minor NPCs is quite different from mixing up entire races. And when it was pointed out to Blizzard that some people really want Alliance High Elves, they didn't 'fix' the oversight as they did with the two wildhammer dwarves, they restated their position that Blood Elves are High Elves and that Void Elves are an Alliance alternative.
    I'm pretty sure fixing a mix-up between two NPCs can be more quickly be resolved than adding an entire race to the Alliance.

    Nothing stops a Blood Elf defecting to the High Elves. The moment you find an in game example or someone on the dev team saying it's possible is the moment it will stop being merely a hypothesis.
    I don't think I ever claimed it as being anything but?

    As for the number of High Elves you see around, given their time and again referenced low population, unless that NPC has a name it is likely you are seeing the same small group of elves moving from zone to zone.
    Hardly, considering we see big groups at the same time, like, for example, in the quests leading to Zul'Aman.

    Someone guarding Dalaran in Wrath could have been present on the Isle of Thunder in MOP, could have been one of the few to accompany the assault on Suramar and could be one of the two High Elves maintaining the shield aboard the Alliance airship in the warfront.
    I find it a bit hard to consider that idea, as I don't think Dalaran would leave itself unguarded, or barely guarded, at any time.

    We do have implicit in game evidence that Void Elves are converting other Elves into Void Elves, namely the Elves now clustering in Telogrus delighted they can study shadow magic and the fact the in game representation of Void Elf numbers is completely at odds with the tiny group present at the initial event that created them.
    It still doesn't mean they're a group big enough "to be a race" while still disqualifying the high elves on the same grounds. I mean, the original void elf group is just the research team that were banished from Silvermoon. I honestly doubt that a horde of elves suddenly flocked to that group at nearly the same time and asked to be turned into void elves to make them a "viable playable race" in terms of population.

    Then I fail to see what your problem is.
    You don't "fail" to see what our problem is. You just refuse to see it. We don't want blood elves. We want high elves. And void elves? They're blood elves.

    Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Your demand is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the developers.
    But not all high elves are blood elves. And your refusal is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the game's lore itself. The Silver Covenant are not comprised of blood elves. They're high elves. So are the elves in Allerian Stronghold, etc.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

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