1. #10541
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Ok so you could roleplay that a mag'har is from the MU time line but you cant role play that a void elf is a silver covenant helf that decided to embrace the void like alleria?

    And it is not a false equivalence. They all would share the same model but are from a different faction and culture which is exactly the same as what you guys are asking.
    Void elves are presented as former Blood elves that got exiled from Silvermoon, got changed by a nether prince void trap and rescued just in time by Alleria Windrunner. The only thing that could make a Void elf a former High elf is if the Moorgard interview ends up materializing into actual Void elf development.

    While we could end up with Void elves that are former High elves from the Alliance, there is still the part where they still aren't the High elves of the Alliance that would still exist within it, while also lacking their own Hub, voicelines, mount, heritage armor, classes that Void elves can and cannot be, racials, and character customization.

    The only way for Void elves to be not just an actual compromise but the true Alliance High elf option would be for the HE to turn into Void elves as a whole. If that happens that would be fine by my standards, but until then let's still advocate for the initial desire.

    Also, it -is- a false equivalence. Adding Void elves in the response modifies the initial meaning of what you clearly tried to imply, it's disrespectful to dismiss an answer changing the meaning of what has been said to fit with the response you got. Remember: 'Would be absurd to demand normal Kul'tirans or normal Gilneans, just play a plain Stormwindian'.

  2. #10542
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Void elves are presented as former Blood elves that got exiled from Silvermoon, got changed by a nether prince void trap and rescued just in time by Alleria Windrunner. The only thing that could make a Void elf a former High elf is if the Moorgard interview ends up materializing into actual Void elf development.

    While we could end up with Void elves that are former High elves from the Alliance, there is still the part where they still aren't the High elves of the Alliance that would still exist within it, while also lacking their own Hub, voicelines, mount, heritage armor, classes that Void elves can and cannot be, racials, and character customization.

    The only way for Void elves to be not just an actual compromise but the true Alliance High elf option would be for the HE to turn into Void elves as a whole. If that happens that would be fine by my standards, but until then let's still advocate for the initial desire.

    Also, it -is- a false equivalence. Adding Void elves in the response modifies the initial meaning of what you clearly tried to imply, it's disrespectful to dismiss an answer changing the meaning of what has been said to fit with the response you got. Remember: 'Would be absurd to demand normal Kul'tirans or normal Gilneans, just play a plain Stormwindian'.

    Ok fair enough, as long normal helves exist that wont work. Makes sense.

    Still dont see how thats a false equivalence.

    Blood elf = human

    =

    High elf = normal gilnean/kul tiran

    The only difference is the faction barrier but unfortunately you can't always have your cake and eat it too.

    The PLAYABLE pure model was meant to be horde. Otherwise alliance would have gotten something similar to the OP and not void elves. Anything more and then you open up the flood gates with people asking for redundant shit like regular kul tirans because "my immersion".

    "Hey guyz lets pull a race out of our ass, waste resource on designing a culture and lore around them. However, lets still give them high elves too."

    I don't think so.

    Nothing but logic here folks. No bad intentions, disrespect, or malice. Just logic.
    Last edited by Varx; 2019-05-06 at 03:10 PM.

  3. #10543
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post

    Then they wouldn't be High Elves. As long as there is a physical change to accompany this, it would not infringe on the thematic or aesthetic integrity of the Horde or the Blood Elves. This is actually a good idea with one drawback.

    This is exactly what they did with Void Elves. Find an external energy source, apply it to a group of elves to provoke a physical and thematic differentiation from the Blood Elves, and add it to the Alliance.

    In other words, what you are suggesting is exactly what they have already done and for a small, vocal group of players it wasn't enough. Why would this suggestion work?
    More to the point, whilst Blizzard's writing isn't exactly stellar, I think even they would baulk at the idea of another random group of Elves encountering yet another magical artifact and undergoing yet another unique transformation.
    This is exactly the point many have been making for the past 500 pages. The fact blizzard used blood elves when making void elves is what makes the whole thing so frustrating. They had the perfect chance to finally give us a playable version of the group many people have wanted playable since forever, and instead opted to use the opposite group that was already playable, basically giving blood elves to the alliance with a new paint job (and in a way doing more harm to the faction divide than the always alliance aligned ones would have). Yes yes blood elves are high elves, but it's not the name that's important, it's the story behind it all, the names are simply used as a means to try and convey the backstory that's attached to it, which seemingly isn't getting across.

    Sure to some it's all about the aesthetic and those people are either happy with void elves as is or would settle for some more skin options, but a lot of us mainly care about getting to play the group/faction that we've seen and played with since WC2, that has always stuck to and helped the Alliance despite the majority of its people and rulers trying to distance themself and later breaking with the Alliance completely. The group that broke ties with their own kin for what they believed were right (whether misguided or not) and have continually kept showing up throughout wow's history. That's the only race I've ever wanted and the only one I could see myself race changing my main to (which I would in a heartbeat), whereas void elf is pretty much the furthest thing from what I want, if that's the fantasy I wanted I'd just have gone horde and played a blood elf already.

    Warcraft 2 was one of the first computer games I played at the age of 7, it was also as far as I can remember my first encounter with this fairly classical type of fantasy, and the elves was straight away my favorite. And they've stayed that way all the way up to current day wow. Sure, the blood elves came into existance with WC3 and are what replaced them in many ways, and yet blizzard have continually kept showing us that those original elves including Alleria that even in WC2 and WC3 were supposedly renegades putting the Alliance above the wishes of their leaders and people are still here. Yes, lorewise I'm sure some of those original WC2/WC3 elves are now blood elves, and yet blizzard keeps showing off the remaining high elves as the true legacy of that alliance (be it literally with the allerian stronghold or simply implied with most of them being rangers like the original WC2 units, etc). I don't care if they have to change their name or their appearance or whatever (just not butcher the lore they've built for them since then either), as long as it's that group of elves that's always been my favorite that I get to play.

  4. #10544
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Still dont see how thats a false equivalence.
    Because you can effectively roleplay as a normal sized Kul'tiran or a main universe Mah'gar that doesn't mean you can play a classic High elf just because another kind of Thalassian exist. (well tho stormwindians can't be druids, but it's one detail let's not get that picky shall we? ). Those examples only share one common point, being similar playable choices. While ignoring everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    The only difference is the faction barrier but unfortunately you can't always have your cake and eat it too.
    Yeah, that's the thing that worries most people, but i hope we could get more open minded and accept that factions are what it's members makes of them and not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    The PLAYABLE pure model was meant to be horde. Otherwise alliance would have gotten something similar to the OP and not void elves. Anything more and then you open up the flood gates with people asking for redundant shit like regular kul tirans because "my immersion".

    "Hey guyz lets pull a race out of our ass, waste resource on designing a culture and lore around them. However, lets still give them high elves too."


    I don't think so.

    Nothing but logic here folks. No bad intentions, disrespect, or malice. Just logic.
    Bolded: The underlined comes out as anything but what you said. Not good intentions, disrespectful, malicious. And everything but logical.

    Logic, remember?

  5. #10545
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    That's not exactly true though, for Void Elves to surpass HE's you'd need enough HE's to simply convert into VE's. Whether that be from personal choice or villainous action tbd by story.
    An unwilling transformation is the only way I can see it being done. High elves chose integrity over their well-being, they wouldn't suddenly choose to turn into void elves in mass without betraying the very reason they split from blood elves in the first place.

    But such mass transformation hasn't happened yet, so it's still speculation.

    And people need to understand that if high elves are turned into void elves, the void elves themselves will lose their identity. You will suddenly have tragic void elves seeking a cure or unwilling to use the void as the majority of the race.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-06 at 03:39 PM.
    Not a native english speaker, so pardon my typos and grammar errors.

  6. #10546
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    An unwilling transformation is the only way I could see it being done. High elves chose integrity over their well-being, they wouldn't suddenly choose to turn into void elves in mass without betraying the very reason they split from blood elves in the first place.

    But such mass transformation hasn't happened yet, so it's still speculation.

    And people need to understand that if high elves are suddenly turned into void elves, the void elves themselves will lose their identity. You will suddenly have tragic void elves seeking a cure or unwilling to use the void as the majority.
    Let's not forget the fact High elves has enough population to have soldiers, civilians and different groups within themselves.

    That's more or the same than certain playable options.

    Edit: Hell, there are even Moonfaire workers and High elves with all kinds of professions out there.
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2019-05-06 at 03:51 PM.

  7. #10547
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    The PLAYABLE pure model was meant to be horde. Otherwise alliance would have gotten something similar to the OP and not void elves. Anything more and then you open up the flood gates with people asking for redundant shit like regular kul tirans because "my immersion".

    "Hey guyz lets pull a race out of our ass, waste resource on designing a culture and lore around them. However, lets still give them high elves too."

    I don't think so.

    Nothing but logic here folks. No bad intentions, disrespect, or malice. Just logic.
    People already have been asking for "redundant shit" like regular Kul'Tirans though.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ody-type/70089

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-in-lore/85629

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764166318

    There's lots more threads that pop up just from googling, "kul tirans should have regular body options". Heck there's even threads about being able to play "normal gilneans".

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9497691?page=1

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/7979989393

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748476563

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...2167753?page=1


    As you can see, people have already been asking for these types of things for a long time. It's just never been as popular as requesting High Elves has been which is why there's been little support/or it's not known as much about.

    I mean look at that, you didn't think people were already asking for these sorts of things and thought High Elves would be the cause of opening up that can of worms.

    But clearly that's happening already, it just goes to show the popularity of the High Elf request and the amount of support it has compared to other similar requests for the other races.

    There's people who strictly play Horde, strictly play Blood Elves that have supported the High Elves becoming playable. That speaks volumes from the community side of the request.

    Ball is truly in Blizzard's court as I said. We just have to wait and see how they decide to go about it once the current AR in BFA finish up.

    I mean I was thinking about it some, and can you honestly tell me once BFA is over, and we all Mechagnomes and whatever else is the final Alliance race coming -

    What sorts of Allied Races for the future do you see Alliance getting excited about???

    These asks for "Forest Trolls, Ogres, Vulpera, San'layn, Tuskarr" are either mostly Horde based races or neutral (Tuskarr).

    There's not a whole lot of options that people are gathering around and supporting in big numbers for Alliance other than High Elves or Wildhammer Dwarves from what I've seen.

    You could say "Jinyu/Ankoan" but that could be the last race coming in BFA. "Night Elf Worgen" I barely see much support for that, both in-game and from players.

    What could Alliance possibly get? Just continue to get a bunch of new races that no one desires? That'd be silly as fuck if compared to Horde getting long-time requests in the future.

    Especially now that Blizzard has said they're now at a point where they're able to look into the feedback they've been getting "and its interesting". They're going to get shit on if Alliance continues to start getting absolutely new races out of nowhere there hasn't been any threads/feedback about.

    I just cannot see a feasible way for Alliance players to get excited for incoming ARs past the Mechagnomes, and even those are pretty tepid overall - most people just accept it because they already knew they were coming at some point.
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2019-05-06 at 03:46 PM.

  8. #10548
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Because you can effectively roleplay as a normal sized Kul'tiran or a main universe Mah'gar that doesn't mean you can play a classic High elf just because another kind of Thalassian exist. (well tho stormwindians can't be druids, but it's one detail let's not get that picky shall we? ). Those examples only share one common point, being similar playable choices. While ignoring everything else.

    Yeah, that's the thing that worries most people, but i hope we could get more open minded and accept that factions are what it's members makes of them and not the other way around.



    Bolded: The underlined comes out as anything but what you said. Not good intentions, disrespectful, malicious. And everything but logical.

    Logic, remember?
    Just because i threw in a few swears doesn't mean im being disrepectful unless who ever reads it as skin as thick as wet toilet paper.


    It is pure logic. Asking for exactly duplicate races but from a different faction is redundant model wise, and models are the meat of a playable character, not the lore or the player's nostolgia fueled immersion.

    Seriously, why would blizzard waste time and money on an ass pull like velves when they could have just given alliance helves to begin with. Once again just using unbiased logic.

  9. #10549
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Seriously, why would blizzard waste time and money on an ass pull like velves when they could have just given alliance helves to begin with. Once again just using unbiased logic.
    They made lots of money off of Void Elves. Imagine later on they release actual High Elves, that's double dipping extra money they've just made. Whereas if they'd made High Elves first do you honestly believe more people would have

    Switched from High Elf -> Void Elf

    or switched from Void Elf -> High Elf

    ?

    That'll answer the question of why they "ass pulled velves"

  10. #10550
    On the "high elves will turn into void elves" possibility, like I said above, I can only see it happening if it's an unwilling transformation. There's no way the high elves will betray the very reason they split from blood elves. Sure, there's always the odd scholar or crazy extremist that may be willing to do so, but the entire race? Even its civilians and non-magic users?

    I can see two ways of it happening, thought. And both require a story where we go back to Quel'thalas as the end of BfA, which then means you get most high elves working with the few void elves.

    The first is that the Sunwell will be corrupted, and that corruption will spread like a disease. Maybe Rommath has prepared for such an event and found a way to ward most of the blood elves, but then the high elves everywhere and some blood elves are caught in the effect and transformed.

    The other is that maybe Umbric is lying, his calm and rational behavior is a sham. Maybe the REAL void elves are the crazy ones in Island Expeditions or those summoning dangerous elite mobs in Faction invasions. Which only the Horde sees, BTW.

    In that case, when their real face is finally shown, they’ll lay a trap for the Alliance. They’ve been serving the Void all along. Maybe they’ll join the high elf army in the Quel’thalas effort, only to reveal they still have the Cube and transform everyone into void elves. Suddenly, the void elves we knew were villains all along, and the new ones introduced, now as a proper numerous race, are cursed victims that never wanted anything to do with the Void. High elves became void elves, end of the discussion.

    But, again, that means the end of the void elves as their own race. They've been overtaken by tragic elves that never wanted to dabble with the void but now must learn to control it, while seeking a way for a cure.

    Would I be fine with such stories? Only if they are told very well, with the proper respect for the high elf identity. But these ideas are not very popular among high elf fans.
    Not a native english speaker, so pardon my typos and grammar errors.

  11. #10551
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    On the "high elves will turn into void elves" possibility, like I said above, I can only see it happening if it's an unwilling transformation. There's no way the high elves will betray the very reason they split from blood elves. Sure, there's always the odd scholar or crazy extremist that may be willing to do so, but the entire race? Even its civilians and non-magic users?
    This is something I never see brought up by the anti-side. The whole reason a High Elf / Blood Elf split occurred is because Blood Elves leaned to utilizing dangerous magic and siphoning from creatures.

    Why the hell would High Elves suddenly turn around and accept to utilize dangerous magic just because it's "purple" instead of "green"?

    This is part of what makes a High Elf a High Elf, supported by those quotes you shared, they "upheld their ideals over their well-being".

    Neither Blood Elves, nor Void Elves, offer that. It would be like telling someone they can "RP" their Nightborne on Alliance by just playing a Night Elf mage, when the entire backstory and theme of Night Elves is that they forsake using Arcane and delved into the more natural/spiritual magics.

    Can someone honestly say with a straight face/no sarcasm that playing a Night Elf mage is equivalent to playing a Nightborne on Horde side?

  12. #10552
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    On the "high elves will turn into void elves" possibility, like I said above, I can only see it happening if it's an unwilling transformation. There's no way the high elves will betray the very reason they split from blood elves. Sure, there's always the odd scholar or crazy extremist that may be willing to do so, but the entire race? Even its civilians and non-magic users?

    I can see two ways of it happening, thought. And both require a story where we go back to Quel'thalas as the end of BfA, which then means you get most high elves working with the few void elves.

    The first is that the Sunwell will be corrupted, and that corruption will spread like a disease. Maybe Rommath has prepared for such an event and found a way to ward most of the blood elves, but then the high elves everywhere and some blood elves are caught in the effect and transformed.

    The other is that maybe Umbric is lying, his calm and rational behavior is a sham. Maybe the REAL void elves are the crazy ones in Island Expeditions or those summoning dangerous elite mobs in Faction invasions. Which only the Horde sees, BTW.

    In that case, when their real face is finally shown, they’ll lay a trap for the Alliance. They’ve been serving the Void all along. Maybe they’ll join the high elf army in the Quel’thalas effort, only to reveal they still have the Cube and transform everyone into void elves. Suddenly, the void elves we knew were villains all along, and the new ones introduced, now as a proper numerous race, are cursed victims that never wanted anything to do with the Void. High elves became void elves, end of the discussion.

    But, again, that means the end of the void elves as their own race. They've been overtaken by tragic elves that never wanted to dabble with the void but now must learn to control it, while seeking a way for a cure.

    Would I be fine with such stories? Only if they are told very well, with the proper respect for the high elf identity. But these ideas are not very popular among high elf fans.
    There is another problem to this.

    And is a storyline one.

    When you create a Void elf, the initial scenario is what it is, they would have to modify it in order to fit the narrative that they are not only Blood elf infused with void by force, if not a new set of Thalassians that joined them one way or another.

    I see it as very early to do so and taking it too far would make it wacky, if it does happen if would be more of a last, flavor line of writing adding a bit to them. It's a similar situation as Death Knights.

  13. #10553
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    They made lots of money off of Void Elves. Imagine later on they release actual High Elves, that's double dipping extra money they've just made. Whereas if they'd made High Elves first do you honestly believe more people would have

    Switched from High Elf -> Void Elf

    or switched from Void Elf -> High Elf

    ?

    That'll answer the question of why they "ass pulled velves"
    Ok so then it'll all be a matter of if Blizzard will become harder sell outs than they already are and add high elves for the sake of generating extra stripper money for their weekends.

    Nice way of introducing an uneeded playable race instead of sticking to their guns and adding more to velf/belf lore and eventually making the helves a distant memory.

    If that's not the case then void elves absolutely killed any chance of playable helves when blizz decided on making them the official belf AR and not the high elves.

  14. #10554
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    This is something I never see brought up by the anti-side. The whole reason a High Elf / Blood Elf split occurred is because Blood Elves leaned to utilizing dangerous magic and siphoning from creatures.

    Why the hell would High Elves suddenly turn around and accept to utilize dangerous magic just because it's "purple" instead of "green"?
    Not only that. The very inception of Void elves took characterization from Blood elves by simply getting exiled for deeply studying void.

    Blood elves were advantageous, rational and highly measured. Why this now? Ugh...

  15. #10555
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Ok so then it'll all be a matter of if Blizzard will become harder sell outs than they already are and add high elves for the sake of generating extra stripper money for their weekends.

    Nice way of introducing an uneeded playable race instead of sticking to their guns and adding more to velf/belf lore and eventually making the helves a distant memory.

    If that's not the case then void elves absolutely killed any chance of playable helves when blizz decided on making them the official belf AR and not the high elves.
    You still didn't reply to my post where I showed people already ask for normal gilneans/kultirans btw, and what else is there for Alliance to get post BFA ARs.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on those subjects, unless you don't have commentary for that entire post.

    Anyways, you'd have to show me where its defined what is "an uneeded playable race" because there's already existing Allied Races that some people consider un-needed such as Lightforged Draenei and Highmountain Tauren which many feel could've been extra customization options added to their existing races.

    Did Blizzard say they're only adding "needed races"? I've only heard them say adding AR "where it makes sense", that's a vastly different statement.

  16. #10556
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    There is another problem to this.

    And is a storyline one.

    When you create a Void elf, the initial scenario is what it is, they would have to modify it in order to fit the narrative that they are not only Blood elf infused with void by force, if not a new set of Thalassians that joined them one way or another.
    They can easily update Telogrus, as well as Alleria's intro narration.
    Not a native english speaker, so pardon my typos and grammar errors.

  17. #10557
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Just because i threw in a few swears doesn't mean im being disrepectful unless who ever reads it as skin as thick as wet toilet paper.
    And now you are insulting my intelligence, neat!

    It's pretty clear who you were referring to with:

    The PLAYABLE pure model was meant to be horde. Otherwise alliance would have gotten something similar to the OP and not void elves. Anything more and then you open up the flood gates with people asking for redundant shit like regular kul tirans because "my immersion".

    "Hey guyz lets pull a race out of our ass, waste resource on designing a culture and lore around them. However, lets still give them high elves too."
    While also trying to evade answers for it by writing:

    Nothing but logic here folks. No bad intentions, disrespect, or malice. Just logic.
    Also... who has 'thick as wet toilet paper skin'?

    Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    It is pure logic. Asking for exactly duplicate races but from a different faction is redundant model wise, and models are the meat of a playable character, not the lore or the player's nostolgia fueled immersion.
    In fact, it is everything but redundant since the option is not available while also being supported by lore. It's kind of an unique situation isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Seriously, why would blizzard waste time and money on an ass pull like velves when they could have just given alliance helves to begin with. Once again just using unbiased logic.
    The answer we got is that they wanted to create something cool and also something similar to a Blood elf. Who knows if they already had lore reasons to it for things we hadn't already seen, as Nightborne having special interactions within Nazjatar for example. They write the lore with years of advance, maybe their lack of lore is kind of on purpose and it's meant to be fulfilled during BfA storyline.

    For anything else, go ask them.

  18. #10558
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Not only that. The very inception of Void elves took characterization from Blood elves by simply getting exiled for deeply studying void.

    Blood elves were advantageous, rational and highly measured. Why this now? Ugh...
    Yes it's a very clearly shallowly designed allied race. My guess is why Blizzard is trying to have them more involved in BFA, and so far are failing to add depth, or after this expansion where they've gotten some "interaction lime light" they'll be forgotten about if we aren't headed to something Void-themed.

    I expect Blizzard to add more depth to them, but so far they haven't added much, if any, at all.

    The majority of people playing Void Elves today are mostly doing it for visual/model reasons because their story depth is absolutely pathetic. Hell I've even seen some people say they play Void Elves because they're the only thin males on Alliance - so something not even related to them being Void!

  19. #10559
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    They can easily update Telogrus, as well as Alleria's intro narration.
    I hope they left less half-baked things from now on.

  20. #10560
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    An unwilling transformation is the only way I can see it being done. High elves chose integrity over their well-being, they wouldn't suddenly choose to turn into void elves in mass without betraying the very reason they split from blood elves in the first place.

    But such mass transformation hasn't happened yet, so it's still speculation.

    And people need to understand that if high elves are turned into void elves, the void elves themselves will lose their identity. You will suddenly have tragic void elves seeking a cure or unwilling to use the void as the majority of the race.
    Yep, it is very much speculation on my part, but it is a potential path for adding a new villain into the Alliance. And considering how lack luster Blizzards writing is.. I can see them going this route.

    Enough from me again, I'll show up randomly again in the future.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

    To the High Elfers out there... If it doesn't workout how you believe/want don't try to paint Blizzard as the bad guy for your own hype building.

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