Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

I am speaking about the logical, financial and logistical reasons for downgraded models of NPC which are not important and do not have a playable race counterpart to draw models from.

You misunderstand this and spin it to your intention. What a fine demagogue you are.

It's not about being a demagogue. It's about honesty and admitting your argument fits the high elves just as much. Kul'Tiras NPCs did not need their own model because they weren't playable and had a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Stormwind humans. It's the exact same thing with high elves: they're not playable and have a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Horde blood elves.

You are like this pigeon who happens to get something good by chance after doing a pirouette, and now repeating pirouettes over and over hoping to get some more.

And you are the guy without a real argument who instead resorts to insults and demeaning comments.

Blood Elves are High Elves.

But not all high elves are blood elves.

[Neverafter]

It's not about being a demagogue. It's about honesty and admitting your argument fits the high elves just as much. Kul'Tiras NPCs did not need their own model because they weren't playable and had a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Stormwind humans. It's the exact same thing with high elves: they're not playable and have a playable race counterpart to draw models from: the Horde blood elves.

The only way I could see this whole High Elves being analogous to KulTiran's thing working is if there were a group of High Elves that had been separated from the rest of the population for a large enough amount of time and undergone some sort of transformation.

Before BFA, we only saw a handful of KulTiran's. Even in KulTiras, the "skinny" human model is used frequently. The muscular or "fat" KulTiran is used more for the "brutes" or guards of KulTiras, which makes sense given the idea of the harsh territory and strength, etc.

We see all of the known High Elves already. There hasn't been any great bodily differentiation between Blood Elves and High Elves aside from eye color which is minor and reversible. There would have to be some group of High Elves that had been absent from current Azeroth dealings to show up to make this analogy work. Whether it's the sheer strength of will to stave off addiction, exercise, feeding off crystals, being exiled for whatever reason near [demons, void, arcane ley lines, elemental planes, dragons, time travel, alternate dimensions, what have you], there would have to be some force to differentiate "these" High Elves from the High Elves we have seen in game already.

[Ielenia]

Did either of you actually read his post?

Did either of you actually look at his images?

He is playing a Void Elf, on the isle of Quel'Danas (which is neutral ground during the time period depicted which is why he isn't being attacked) wearing Silver Covenant type armor. So yeah, he can go to Stormwind quite easily wearing that get up.

Wow. Way to go and finally confirming what I've been saying for so long in this thread: people cannot tell the difference between a void elf and a blood elf without looking real hard and ignoring everything else around them.

You couldn't tell the difference between a void elf and a blood elf.

Look at the ears: they're pink, not purple.

I get what you are arguing. I just don't give it credence because there is no evidence for it.

Then you should go back and brush up on your WoW lore, because it's a hard canon fact that fel magic corrupts and transforms the body. To say there is no evidence for it is like claiming there is no evidence that Holy magic can heal people in the game or lore.

The only thing that changed is eye colour, and as golden eyes proves that isn't a permanent change as the Orc's green skin was.

It is permanent. It's just being undone. To day it's "not permanent" means it'd disappear on its own, and it's not the case here.

? Drug addictions in the real world are caused by the body becoming dependant upon and craving real addictive substances. We are discussing a fictional addiction to magic.

"This is not to say, however, that withdrawal from magic would leave the high elves unharmed. On the contrary, permanent mental or physical damage is possible."

So, yeah, magic withdrawal does have an effect on the body. Not to mention that entire section there backs up my claims that the high elves could have found a way to train their bodies to help deal with the symptoms of withdrawal.

Finally. For someone desiring honesty in the conversation we finally have some from yourself. There is no evidence in game, merely a hypothetical you are plugging based on experiences we have no idea are even analogous to the situation facing the thalassian elves.

Sorry, I'm "plugging" from canon sources, thankyouverymuch.

When the Warcraft encyclopedia was written and they discussed the addiction, they cited willpower and magical artefacts as the techniques used by the Alliance High Elves to deal with their addiction. Nothing at all about exercise which you think they might have covered there were it a genuine factor.

It says they found other ways and it's a fact that magic withdrawal affects the body.

So, I feel quite within my rights at this point to dismiss the entire suggestion as headcanon.

Except you can't because what I proposed is well within the rules of the game and backed up by precedents. And you don't get to accuse me of "headcanon" when you did the exact same thing with your repeated implications that the drust and the humans of Kul'Tiras interbred, despite absolutely zero evidence for that. Hell, even less evidence than my "so-called" headcanon about the fel and blood elves.

No I am afraid not

Of course you don't. Why should I expect anything different? No one who rationalizes things in the way of "it matters when it doesn't benefit me, it doesn't matter when it benefits me" never admit to being wrong.

When did I say fel energy doesn't change a body? it changed Blood Elven eyes green. But that change is so minor, and demonstrably reversible, that I don't think it really counts.

Of course it counts, because it shows how easily susceptible to fel magic the blood elf body is, if just by being around fel crystals changed their eye color.Not by consuming fel magic. Just by being somewhat close to those green crystals.

Blizzard after all has been extremely consistent in saying Blood Elves and High Elves are identical, and in game nobody has suggested Blood Elves somehow look different from when they were High Elves beyond that eye colour shift.

Which is the exact same case as Kul'Tiras. We had no reason to even think they'd look different,

This passage is illuminating however in that you essentially admit you are calling for a retcon, to go back and pretend that the Blood Elves were changed by the fel to a far greater degree than they actually were so as to differentiate them from Alliance High Elves and therefore provide a more solid basis for an Alliance High Elf allied race.

You know what else supports my theory? Blood elves could not be warriors when TBC came along. They could be paladins... but not warriors. And I always found that curious, since gnomes could. Only after Cataclysm Blizzard allowed BEs to be warriors. Fel magic having made their bodies weaker, lowering their constitution, would easily explain that. Would it be a retcon? A minor one, yes, but one that doesn't change squat the current lore and presence of the blood elves, and even helps explain inconsistencies of the past.

They resemble the Blood Elves in build because they and the Blood Elves are the same race.

So are Stormwind humans and Kul'Tiras humans.

It is the height of hypocrisy to suggest that is a dishonest argument, when your own implies that they would give Alliance High Elves their own model if they had the time. They had the time, they created Void Elves in that time.

The irony in those sentences is baffling, to the point I'm kinda surprised you didn't pick on it yourself. To say that they "had the time" is dishonest as all hell, considering high elves are not playable, and the void elves are nothing but blood elves who got "sunburn" from the void. Why would void elves look different from blood elves since: a) they come from blood elves; and b) they're an allied race, which at the time we knew were "reskins" of current existing races?

Blood Elves are High Elves.

But not all high elves are blood elves.

As to 'not all High Elves are Blood Elves'...who really cares beyond your community?

That's not an argument. This is you having nothing to say. "Who cares?" is not an argument. We care. And apparently so does Blizzard considering high elves continue to be featured in varying ways throughout the expansions.

The High Elves who are not Blood Elves made a political choice.

And a moral one, too.

You keep making suggestions and pushing them, but you never have evidence for them.

No, I do have evidence for them and I keep presenting them. You just keep handwaving them away, or just outright ignoring them.

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The only way I could see this whole High Elves being analogous to KulTiran's thing working is if there were a group of High Elves that had been separated from the rest of the population for a large enough amount of time and undergone some sort of transformation.

Before BFA, we only saw a handful of KulTiran's. Even in KulTiras, the "skinny" human model is used frequently. The muscular or "fat" KulTiran is used more for the "brutes" or guards of KulTiras, which makes sense given the idea of the harsh territory and strength, etc.

We see all of the known High Elves already. There hasn't been any great bodily differentiation between Blood Elves and High Elves aside from eye color which is minor and reversible. There would have to be some group of High Elves that had been absent from current Azeroth dealings to show up to make this analogy work. Whether it's the sheer strength of will to stave off addiction, exercise, feeding off crystals, being exiled for whatever reason near [demons, void, arcane ley lines, elemental planes, dragons, time travel, alternate dimensions, what have you], there would have to be some force to differentiate "these" High Elves from the High Elves we have seen in game already.

But here's the thing: the "fat" Kul'Tirans did not exist until BfA. Because they didn't need to exist. Making such unique models, animations and voice lines for a race that isn't playable and are basically humans would be a waste of resources. But then said race became playable, and Blizzard decided to make them different.

I am confident that if HEs become an allied race, they'll have only minor changes in comparison to BEs. But if they become a "full-fledged" race, they'll look different, and there are plenty of reasons and ways for that to happen.

[Thalassian Bob]

Oh. So it's just a full armor trick for 5 minutes every 30 minutes.

Still a condescending 'demonstration'.

You are correct that I was using the Orb of the Sin'dorei there for the full effect (and to tease just a little), but here's another pic of my mage standing with his zealously anti-Sin'dorei qt girlfriend in Dalaran:


(Forgive the image quality - I'm on my dying potato laptop today.)

Here, I'm not using the orb and my character still looks near as dammit to the real deal with the right armour and tabard showing allegiance and intent. Plus, having the high elf wayfarers visiting the void elf starting area pretty much gives you all the ammunition you need to imagine that your specific Ren'dorei is actually a high elf who believed that, with Alleria leading in the tutelage of fledgling void elves, harnessing the power of the void was a legitimate way for Alliance-aligned Thalassians to help their faction when they need all the power they can get.

There have been tons of high elves (including some aligned with the Alliance) who have harnessed risque powers or done questionable things to advance their goals. High elves like Summoner Nolric. (The Silver Covenant itself is a pretty nefarious organisation.)

The idea that all high elves who stayed loyal to the Alliance when Silvermoon pledged itself to the Horde all did so because they were repelled by the idea of extracting arcane energy from living things is based on one stupid passing line from a fan story (which is otherwise good) that was made canon. There are plenty of reasons - not all of them righteous or noble - why a high elf may have chosen to turn their backs on Quel'Thalas. Some of them become Horde-friendly bootleggers or pirates, others join cults or pledge themselves to different causes.

The most simple and powerful argument for a high elf pledging themselves to the Alliance over the Horde is their simply being unable to forget the actions of the Horde in the Second War and feeling that maintaining relations with a faction and peoples they've known for centuries makes more sense. Even if that faction hasn't always been kind to them.

Playing a Ren'dorei who used to be Quel'dorei, never a Sin'dorei, makes plenty of sense and I believe is a satisfying middle-ground for the immediate future for players who want to think of their characters as Quel'dorei.

[FlubberPuddy]

It is entirely possible that Blood Elves will never get blue eyes. However, I don't regard eye colour as something major either. I would simply like the extra customization option for Blood Elves when they add a separate eye colour selector to the character creator.

Oh I know, I was just pointing out the argument you were using is flawed. It's flawed because we have no precedent of it with any of the other existing Allied Races. Is it just that you consider eye color something minor but not hairstyles/facial hair/tattoos?

Because the argument that you used could be applied to other Allied Races and seen to not be working, that's all I am pointing out.

I find that those in favour of Alliance High Elves are the ones extremely defensive regarding the blue eye colour, simply because it is the sole physical difference between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. But as golden eyes show, thalassian elf eye colour is mutable depending on circumstances. It can change, there is nothing permanent about it and so it is not a true mark of differentiation.

Indeed, some people do. I don't think it would make sense for Blood Elves to get blue eyes since that is a regression of their story (which is focused on progression). But not just that, if Blizzard is saying that they released Void Elves to give "something like a Blood Elf" but more unique, then it would seem weird to make that gap closer between the two (Void Elves and Blood Elves) when the sentiment is they wanted something more different added to Alliance.

Eye color may not be a huge distinguishing feature, but it adds a difference. Just like with other Allied Races and the minor differences between their customization (hairstyles, accessory customization, facial hair, tattoos). Eye color might seem minor but it was "major enough" for Jeremy Feasel to include it as part of the Allied Races system.

"Do you have any plans for Allied Races after the Kul Tirans and Zandalari Trolls?

JF: I feel like Allied Races are an awesome addition to the game. You have seen us taking this system in a bunch of directions now, we kinda pieced it apart, we've added Allied races and then we said "hey, wait a minute, I like being a Dwarf!", so we added a Dwarf heritage armor set. We added that, then we thought about Blood Elves wanting golden eyes or Night Elves, what do they get? So they got different customization options. So we really like the different levels of player customizations that came out of this and we're definitely not done yet, but we don't have anything to announce today."

https://www.wowhead.com/news=288498/...ns-flying-in-n

That question is focused on Allied Races and he talks about how they're piecing the system apart and mentions Dwarf heritage armor and golden eyes for blood elves and what do night elves get, so they got eye color customization.

But I'm also a big proponent of "Blizzard can do whatever Blizzard wants" as we have seen them do with features like Transmog, Vicious mounts becoming account-wide, removal of PvP servers.

They are beholden to anything they say in the past until they don't want to be.

[Neverafter]

But here's the thing: the "fat" Kul'Tirans did not exist until BfA. Because they didn't need to exist. Making such unique models, animations and voice lines for a race that isn't playable and are basically humans would be a waste of resources. But then said race became playable, and Blizzard decided to make them different.

I am confident that if HEs become an allied race, they'll have only minor changes in comparison to BEs. But if they become a "full-fledged" race, they'll look different, and there are plenty of reasons and ways for that to happen.

I agree that there would be plenty of ways of making High Elves look different. I highlighted a few in my other post. The important distinction would be why? What reason would Blizzard have to make High Elves look any different? You said "fat" KulTirans did not exist until BfA, which is true. But KulTirans did exist. We only saw a small portion of the population, so saying that mainland KulTirans could have different characteristics is plausible. This isn't the same for High Elves.

There isn't some island somewhere full of High Elves that have been separated for hundreds of years. We have seen the major populations of High Elves. We know where they congregate. We can visit them in game. It is the complete opposite of KulTirans before BfA.

[FlubberPuddy]

You are correct that I was using the Orb of the Sin'dorei there for the full effect (and to tease just a little), but here's another pic of my mage standing with his zealously anti-Sin'dorei qt girlfriend in Dalaran:

First, I just enjoy your posts lol. I like that you are making do with what you can in the immediate present. I don't doubt others are doing the same as well.

Here, I'm not using the orb and my character still looks near as dammit to the real deal with the right armour and tabard showing allegiance and intent. Plus, having the high elf wayfarers visiting the void elf starting area pretty much gives you all the ammunition you need to imagine that your specific Ren'dorei is actually a high elf who believed that, with Alleria leading in the tutelage of fledgling void elves, harnessing the power of the void was a legitimate way for Alliance-aligned Thalassians to help their faction when they need all the power they can get.

An interesting thing yesterday. As I was perusing the Void Elf wowpedia page, I see they updated it to include that interview with Moorgard/Steve Danuser. Frankly, it seems even Wowpedia doesn't believe that interview means Void Elves are able to turn others.

Here is what Wowpedia's interpretation is of that interview point (at the time of this post): "The void elves are not recruiting, but they are open to those who share similar interests. Their research has attracted other elves to Telogrus, with both Silvermoon scholars and high elven wayfarers arriving to study the ways of the Void. They are trying to find out if they can reproduce the original process that transformed the void elves.[12]"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_elf

Another thing I noticed is in their introduction of Void Elves at the top of the page. It used to say something like "Void Elves are blood elves and high elves" and it doesn't include that anymore. Just says Void-infused elves. It appears that the more we're learning about the Void Elves. The more they're simply Blood Elves turned Void, and less appear to have a connection to High Elves.

[Thalassian Bob]

-snip-

Glad you enjoy my posts! Thanks!

You raise an interesting point about that interview but remember that WoWPedia, as good a resource as it is, is a third-party platform and their articles can include speculation that isn't backed up by hard evidence.

That does seem to be how the writers of the WoWPedia article have interpreted that interview but I'm not convinced they've taken it correctly having just looked at that interview myself.

There’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?

“They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”

Now, to me, that doesn't say that the void elves are unable to recreate the accident that turned them into Ren'dorei. That, to me, says that they - sensibly - are not looking to add more elves to their ranks through recruitment because it is a taxing process and being transformed requires an iron will to battle the whispers of the Void, but they are also not turning away volunteers who have come to undergo the transformation willingly.

That's how I interpret the interviewee's response to the question of how void elves can go from being a small group of Silvermoon exiles to a fully fledged Allied Race.

[FlubberPuddy]

Btw, the only Void Elf Hearthstone card in existence I believe.

https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Cartographer



Seems even Hearthstone developers know the approximate populations of Blood Elves, High Elves, and Void Elves

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Glad you enjoy my posts! Thanks!

You raise an interesting point about that interview but remember that WoWPedia, as good a resource as it is, is a third-party platform and their articles can include speculation that isn't backed up by hard evidence.

That does seem to be how the writers of the WoWPedia article have interpreted that interview but I'm not convinced they've taken it correctly having just looked at that interview myself.

True, true. I do understand it being a 3rd party website and open to its own interpretation. What I meant by sharing that is essentially anyone that is thinking "High Elves are turning into Void Elves" is stating something unsubstantiated and under their own personal interpretation.

Given, as I said in previous posts, that even the big media outlets (MMO-C and Wowhead) when they covered this interview didn't post anything like "Void Elves are turning other elves" or "Elves can be turned into Void Elves if they wish on their own accord" I'm guessing that most places do not see that answer provided by Moorgard to be compelling enough to agree.

That's all I meant, that right now it's still up in the air essentially, with more media outlets erring on the side of "Void Elf pop increased but we still don't know exactly how".

[Thalassian Bob]

True, true. I do understand it being a 3rd party website and open to its own interpretation. What I meant by sharing that is essentially anyone that is thinking "High Elves are turning into Void Elves" is stating something unsubstantiated and under their own personal interpretation.

Given, as I said in previous posts, that even the big media outlets (MMO-C and Wowhead) when they covered this interview didn't post anything like "Void Elves are turning other elves" or "Elves can be turned into Void Elves if they wish on their own accord" I'm guessing that most places do not see that answer provided by Moorgard to be compelling enough to agree.

That's all I meant, that right now it's still up in the air essentially, with more media outlets erring on the side of "Void Elf pop increased but we still don't know exactly how".

Fair enough, dude. There's definitely nothing concrete. But, I think there's enough wiggle room there for people to think of their Ren'dorei as Never Sinners ().

[Ielenia]

I agree that there would be plenty of ways of making High Elves look different. I highlighted a few in my other post. The important distinction would be why? What reason would Blizzard have to make High Elves look any different? You said "fat" KulTirans did not exist until BfA, which is true. But KulTirans did exist. We only saw a small portion of the population, so saying that mainland KulTirans could have different characteristics is plausible. This isn't the same for High Elves.

And so do high elves exist, right now. As for saying a "only saw a small portion of the population" is an argument that doesn't really hold water, because you're then faced with the question of why those "fat" Kul'tirans were not part of their navy. Were they prejudiced against those who are "bulkier" than the "average" human? Well, we saw that was not the case, in BfA.

There isn't some island somewhere full of High Elves that have been separated for hundreds of years.

That isn't a viable argument. That exact same thing could be said about an island full of humanoid pandas. Or about a tribe of tauren with moose antlers instead of bovine horns. You can't say something "doesn't exist" in a work of fiction when we don't have evidence that something like that does not exist. And absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. New areas, new islands, new continents, new worlds... all can be created.

[Aldo Hawk]

Fair enough, he is indeed using the orb. However, the only way to determine that was to look at the one unobscured part of the body, the tips of the ears. A Void Elf in the same get up would be almost indistinguishable from a Blood/High Elf.

Stop grasping at straws. It's disgusting and creates a bad environment in the thread.

Well, yes, he would be a Void Elf, not a Blood/High Elf. If you wanted a traditional high elf you would have to play a Blood Elf on the Horde. Isn't it wonderful to have so much choice if you are a high elf fan? Traditional elf on one side, a clear variant on the other?

What is wonderful is that some people still think they have the reason when pointed in front of their noses what the situation is.

'Traditional elf' is not a warcraft concept, making up concepts does not do anyone any favor. It's just a way to kick the bee nest.

In warcraft, we have the high elves and the blood elves.

A Void elf is -not- a High elf, and a Blood elf is a High elf -just- in race, not in name. And High elves, in name, are -not- horde nor Void elves.

High elves are -not- Blood elves. Void elves -are- Void elves, not anything else.

Saying the request is shallow while telling others to be shallow is hypocritical and nonsensical.

The bullshit has to stop.

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Here, I'm not using the orb and my character still looks near as dammit to the real deal with the right armour and tabard showing allegiance and intent.

It is not a High elf. A flimsy costume doesn't change voicelines, classes, -actual- appearance, world interaction, or racials. Nor it gives you a racial mount or armor set.

There have been tons of high elves (including some aligned with the Alliance) who have harnessed risque powers or done questionable things to advance their goals. High elves like Summoner Nolric. (The Silver Covenant itself is a pretty nefarious organisation.)

That NPC may probably be there for utilitary purposes, given the context of the inclusion (wotlk) in which class trainers were much more important.

However, even if it's a genuine warlock HE (the title is summoner), that would make High elf warlocks rarer than
half-elves.

The idea that all high elves who stayed loyal to the Alliance when Silvermoon pledged itself to the Horde all did so because they were repelled by the idea of extracting arcane energy from living things is based on one stupid passing line from a fan story (which is otherwise good) that was made canon.

There is more into the situation but opinion of lore does not change anything.

It's your opinion that this part of the lore is stupid. I think the Void elf lore is the stupid one. So what?

Some of them become Horde-friendly bootleggers or pirates, others join cults or pledge themselves to different causes.

Exactly as any other race. This is a non argument that does not point to anything.

The most simple and powerful argument for a high elf pledging themselves to the Alliance over the Horde is their simply being unable to forget the actions of the Horde in the Second War and feeling that maintaining relations with a faction and peoples they've known for centuries makes more sense. Even if that faction hasn't always been kind to them.

Zandalari were not always kind to the horde. Even less the Draenor orcs or the undead.

A faction doesn't have to be perfectly glued together.

[The Silver Covenant]

I just repeat: Blizzard continued the story of Quel'thalas first via Blood Elves, and then - after Allerias return and transformation - via Void Elves.

What is so hard to understand about that? It's an organic development.

It isn't organic development. Blood Elves were only put with the Horde to get people to play Horde, and all of the lore developments since then — while valid by necessity — are tainted by that fact. Hence people will always ask to play a simulacrum of the iconic Thalassian race as part of the Alliance, especially since High Elves continued to exist alongside Blood Elves the whole time. I personally suspect this is because there are some Blizzard developers who've always found the move distasteful themselves, and do their best to keep true Warcraft alive beyond playable race options.

The request is justified and righteous, and will always be made to Blizzard until High Elves are playable.

[Aldo Hawk]

It isn't organic development. Blood Elves were only put with the Horde to get people to play Horde, and all of the lore developments since then — while valid by necessity — are tainted by that fact. Hence people will always ask to play a simulacrum of the iconic Thalassian race as part of the Alliance, especially since High Elves continued to exist alongside Blood Elves the whole time. I personally suspect this is because there are some Blizzard developers who've always found the move distasteful themselves, and do their best to keep true Warcraft alive beyond playable race options.

The request is justified and righteous, and will always be made to Blizzard until High Elves are playable.

https://twitter.com/Xelnath/status/1...429662208?s=20

Blood elves were a good move in many ways, and just felt forced to those against the idea. It's pretty similar to the anti HE position.

However, defending the inclusion of HE as playable does not have to have anything to do with the perception you have on Blood elves.

Blood elves are more than the pretty race horde player got to bolster their numbers. It's a nice and creative addition that helped to create a cooler warcraft aesthetic and lore.

That said. High elves are not Blood elves and are Alliance since the very beginning of World of Warcraft, they are Alliance pride and Alliance identity.

While HE exist, there will always be someone asking for them to appear in the character selection screen, and now with allied races it has become a stronger request than ever.

[Traveler Voltin]

i love how every suggestion is to change high elves into something they are not just to try to make them playable.

[The Silver Covenant]

Blood elves are more than the pretty race horde player got to bolster their numbers. It's a nice and creative addition that helped to create a cooler warcraft aesthetic and lore.

Disagreed. Blood Elves could have been everything they are today if they were put with the correct faction in TBC. Two of the three points in Brazie's tweet confirm that Blood Elves went to the Horde for out-of-lore reasons and the third point just shows that they had a connection to the expansion for their introduction.

Guess we're just in disagreement on this. That's okay. High Elves still exist as an acceptable alternative to the sullied Blood Elf option and are, in fact, a cooler possibility in many ways because they're the original flavor of Thalassian elf.

[Aldo Hawk]

Disagreed. Blood Elves could have been everything they are today if they were put with the correct faction in TBC. Two of the three points in Brazie's tweet confirm that Blood Elves went to the Horde for out-of-lore reasons and the third point just shows that they had a connection to the expansion for their introduction.

Guess we're just in disagreement on this. That's okay. High Elves still exist as an acceptable alternative to the sullied Blood Elf option and are, in fact, a cooler possibility in many ways because they're the original flavor of Thalassian elf.

I'm just saying that there is not a 'correct' faction. At that point the Blood elf lore was open, and they headed it into the horde. Just that.

And he presented just three points. There are surely more but I don't want to bother him. Devs feel like busy people who don't like to be approached with these things, I hope that's just my view on it xd

[Thalassian Bob]

It is not a High elf. A flimsy costume doesn't change voicelines, classes, -actual- appearance, world interaction, or racials. Nor it gives you a racial mount or armor set.


That NPC may probably be there for utilitary purposes, given the context of the inclusion (wotlk) in which class trainers were much more important.

However, even if it's a genuine warlock HE (the title is summoner), that would make High elf warlocks rarer than
half-elves.


There is more into the situation but opinion of lore does not change anything.

It's your opinion that this part of the lore is stupid. I think the Void elf lore is the stupid one. So what?


Exactly as any other race. This is a non argument that does not point to anything.


Zandalari were not always kind to the horde. Even less the Draenor orcs or the undead.

A faction doesn't have to be perfectly glued together.

I bring up that some high elves do non-lawful, morally grey or downright nefarious things to highlight that some of them might decide to become void elves. Thereby allowing some of the people in here who so desperately want to play high elves to think that their personal Ren'dorei were actually always loyal to the Alliance, went straight from being Quel'dorei to Ren'dorei and didn't do the back-and-forthing that the Sin'dorei-origin void elves did.

I get the impression there isn't much point in attempting to rebut or discuss your other points cos your stance seems pretty all or nothing on the subject.

[The Silver Covenant]

Thereby allowing some of the people in here who so desperately want to play high elves to think that their personal Ren'dorei were actually always loyal to the Alliance, went straight from being Quel'dorei to Ren'dorei and didn't do the back-and-forthing that the Sin'dorei-origin void elves did.

This requires too much mental gymnastics and headcanoning of something that doesn't explicitly appear in-game. Plus, Void Elves aren't Quel'dorei who go all void-y during combat. They're blue. So they'll never really satisfy the request for High Elves until they get some normal flesh tones and hair choices.

[Thalassian Bob]

This requires too much mental gymnastics and headcanoning of something that doesn't explicitly appear in-game. Plus, Void Elves aren't Quel'dorei who go all void-y during combat. They're blue. So they'll never really satisfy the request for High Elves until they get some normal flesh tones and hair choices.

I'd definitely say that the void elves could use a few more non-tentacle-y hair styles and maybe a dirty blonde hair colour option.