Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Doffen]

I, of course, disagree. Because it isn't just about the answer, it's about the question. The question contextualizes the answer. Attempting to rely on the answer alone leaves it open to spin and misinterpretation. Including the question reduces the numbers of interpretations that make sense to pretty much one.

To clarify, he was asked If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?.

And his first words in response?

“They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues.

Which of course is meant to show that the group who began as a small band of transformed researchers has expanded.

So, as I put to Flubberpuddy above, can you produce an interpretation that takes account of the following facts...

a.) The questioner was asking where Void Elf numbers come from
b.) Moorgard's answer began with the statement that the Void Elves start as a small group, therefore leading the reader to expect their numbers have increased since that start
c.) He talks about the Elves, not specifying Alliance High Elves or Blood Elves, just Elves, who have sought the Void Elves out to see if they can become Void Elves too (undergo a similar process)....

...that comes up with a different interpretation than they are able to reproduce by converting other Elves? Because I felt if one was out there, someone would have put forward by now.

So far I have Moorgard was being vague (which is only an explanation if you believe he wasn't answering the question) or that when asked about Void Elf numbers, he launched in an unconnected discussion of other Elves who have come to study the void but not become Void Elves...which would have no impact on Void Elf numbers and be completely unrelated to the question.
But if someone out there thinks they have a better explanation then I am all ears.

The thing is that they don't know, or haven't gotten a good enough explanation how Void Elves will increase in numbers to give us an actual answer, be it in game or outside it. And as long they have not, there is just speculation. When talking about this I do of course take the question into account, but the answer isn't answering the question. It vaguely says that there are elves that are interested in void magic.

For all we know, only other Blood Elves will turn into Void Elf, because he didn't answer the question with:
They start out as a small group, but those who already turned into the void are now recruiting both High Elves from the Alliance, and Blood Elves of Silvermoon. But he didn't say that, he even said they are not really recruiting. So far we don't know if, or who the Void Elf are recruiting to increase the Void Elf population.

If WoG is something we can interpret as we want, what's the meaning of the so called WoG then? It's just speculations before we get an actual answer of who or if the Void Elves are recruiting. Saying that other elves are interested in void magic doesn't say much. I am interested in football, I am literally delving into it and have been for many years, but I don't transform my body to be in super-shape to start playing it again. Being interested into void magic does not mean that they are going to be Void Elves.

[Ielenia]

Secondly, word of god is not and never is an eternal absolute. It is an absolute truth until contradicted by future word of god.

Then you should stop using that sentence. "Word of God" implies that the answer given is absolute and "set in stone", i.e. cannot and would not be changed. The moment you say "word of God" it heavily implies that what was said is static and will never change.

Evidence therefore that void elves are capable of transforming other beings into void based variants by blasting them with void energy.

Except those are beasts. We don't know the extent of what happened to their minds as they are transformed. On top of that, it heavily implies that the void also heavily speeds up their growth so they're adult in a matter of minutes, at most, considering there's adult "void-saurs" around, already, and that again we have no indication of the effects on their bodies are.

That they can do that to ravasaurs is not an indication that they can already do the same to other elves in a safe manner.

[delus]

The source of the question was the mismatch in game between Void Elf numbers, between those initially transformed and those we see. Attempting to divorce his answer from the question, so as to reinterpret the answer however you wish, is an intellectually dishonest approach. He was not asked about the non transformed elves hanging out in Telrogus.

He was asked 'where do the numbers come from?'.

We also see that the Void Elves are capable of converting other lifeforms into Void based variants, specifically the Ravasaurs in the relevant quest during the Alliance assault on Zuldazar.

Evidence therefore that void elves are capable of transforming other beings into void based variants by blasting them with void energy.
Evidence in the mismatch between Void Elf numbers in game and the initial transformation.
Evidence in that the senior narrative designer has said they can expand their numbers.

Nice try. You've gone over all that. Or at least tried to push your theories

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Then you should stop using that sentence. "Word of God" implies that the answer given is absolute and "set in stone", i.e. cannot and would not be changed. The moment you say "word of God" it heavily implies that what was said is static and will never change.


Except those are beasts. We don't know the extent of what happened to their minds as they are transformed. On top of that, it heavily implies that the void also heavily speeds up their growth so they're adult in a matter of minutes, at most, considering there's adult "void-saurs" around, already, and that again we have no indication of the effects on their bodies are.

That they can do that to ravasaurs is not an indication that they can already do the same to other elves in a safe manner.

It's not even word of god, it's word of god through his own interpretation. As for the ravasaurs, they are basically just meat puppets being used by void entities.

[Aldo Hawk]

I can't believe there are still people giving so much credit and importance of Void elves being able to turn others.

Goddamn guys, seriously. As I said, only a fool would not understand that unless the entirety of the High elves pass through something that makes them disappear or whatever that makes them CEASE TO EXIST, the High elf request will still have it's reason to be. It's so simple that it demonstrates how much bullshit some are inclined to take just to go against it.

Seriously... There are some who can't stand the simple concept of High elves being wanted because they have been seen in the lore and in the game as part of the Alliance, even WAY WAY WAY after the majority of their homeland turned to a new chapter into the Horde.

Void elves turning High elves would not change shit, High elves would still be there, existing, and that's what the whole request is all about. Seriously, all this argument of Void elves turning whatever is pure bullshit that do not lead to anywhere. It's the biggest red herring I have seen in the entire thread.

Yes, Moorgard's response was a clear non-answer. It's totally ridiculous to try to push it as a truth. We will have to SEE what will happen with the Void elves. What Moorgard said -did not- clarify shit -at all-. He just added onto what we ALREADY KNEW, that there are other Thalassian elves learning about void magic with them because they seek for them after the news about Alleria, the stupid decisions of Rommath, and the possibility of learning about this magical force in an advanced and secure place.

WOW WHAT A REVELATION WOW OMFG HOW INCREDIBLE ISN'T IT?!?!

Seriously, don't answer anymore about the red herring that is the hypothetical Voidification, as even it if it's true, it doesn't even lead to anywhere important to the discussion.

Are High elves there? Simply existing? We want them. Dancing around this fact is pathetic.

[Strippling]

I can't believe there are still people giving so much credit and importance of Void elves being able to turn others.

Goddamn guys, seriously. As I said, only a fool would not understand that unless the entirety of the High elves pass through something that makes them disappear or whatever that makes them CEASE TO EXIST, the High elf request will still have it's reason to be. It's so simple that it demonstrates how much bullshit some are inclined to take just to go against it.

Seriously... There are some who can't stand the simple concept of High elves being wanted because they have been seen in the lore and in the game as part of the Alliance, even WAY WAY WAY after the majority of their homeland turned to a new chapter into the Horde.

Void elves turning High elves would not change shit, High elves would still be there, existing, and that's what the whole request is all about. Seriously, all this argument of Void elves turning whatever is pure bullshit that do not lead to anywhere. It's the biggest red herring I have seen in the entire thread.

Yes, Moorgard's response was a clear non-answer. It's totally ridiculous to try to push it as a truth. We will have to SEE what will happen with the Void elves. What Moorgard said -did not- clarify shit -at all-. He just added onto what we ALREADY KNEW, that there are other Thalassian elves learning about void magic with them because they seek for them after the news about Alleria, the stupid decisions of Rommath, and the possibility of learning about this magical force in an advanced and secure place.

WOW WHAT A REVELATION WOW OMFG HOW INCREDIBLE ISN'T IT?!?!

Seriously, don't answer anymore about the red herring that is the hypothetical Voidification, as even it if it's true, it doesn't even lead to anywhere important to the discussion.

Are High elves there? Simply existing? We want them. Dancing around this fact is pathetic.

What baffles me is players who are happy to neglect faction identity and race uniqueness all because they want a Horde race available on the Alliance too. And it's "the biggest red herring" that these players claim it's all about the lore, not the aesthetics. If you truly appreciated the lore then you'd accept that A) blood elves are high elves, and are THE high elves of WoW, and B) alliance high elves are a dying breed (unlike the void elves who appear to be growing in ranks) who are becoming more n more 'human' as each year passes, as they're assimilating into human society and slowly fading away.

If high elves were to be playable this would suggest they're thriving, which we know is not the case. We have developers stating this, and we have in game events emphasizing this (such as Elisande's observations). As time passes, alliance high elves are fading away. But that's ok, because the high elven legacy and future continues on through the blood elves.. which was and is Blizzard's intention. A handful of high elves amongst the alliance do exist, but they are not progressing or have a society as other races or ARs have. This is why the conversation about void elves growing their ranks is important to the discussion. It shows the void elves may have started small, but they're growing and progressing as a group. The same cannot be said for alliance high elves... it's pure head canon if you think they're progressing as a collective group of elves. Again, we have senior developers and the game itself showing us that they're a dwindling group, a remnant of the past... their future (as in high elven future) continues on through the blood elves and to a lesser degree the void elves. It's a hard pill to swallow for some, but it's the reality. Blood elves are our high elves. As such, alliance high elves being playable would directly impede on the uniqueness and identity of the blood elves. That's the reality of this debate, and why alliance high elves are likely to never playable.

[Goldielocks]

Good news Helf zealots. It's not a coincidence that High Elves are being rumored as an allied race at the same time of the factions breaking down in 9.0. So, the devs are definitely sticking to their guns on faction identity, but hey at least you get your Helves!!!!!!!!

[Aldo Hawk]

Don't you realize -Alliance- High elves are -Alliance- identity? Is that so hard to understand?

Honestly, there's not much to do with someone who denies such fact.

High elves are not Blood elves. Sorry, it's the truth.

[Obelisk Kai]

The thing is that they don't know, or haven't gotten a good enough explanation how Void Elves will increase in numbers to give us an actual answer, be it in game or outside it. And as long they have not, there is just speculation. When talking about this I do of course take the question into account, but the answer isn't answering the question. It vaguely says that there are elves that are interested in void magic.

For all we know, only other Blood Elves will turn into Void Elf, because he didn't answer the question with:
They start out as a small group, but those who already turned into the void are now recruiting both High Elves from the Alliance, and Blood Elves of Silvermoon. But he didn't say that, he even said they are not really recruiting. So far we don't know if, or who the Void Elf are recruiting to increase the Void Elf population.

If WoG is something we can interpret as we want, what's the meaning of the so called WoG then? It's just speculations before we get an actual answer of who or if the Void Elves are recruiting. Saying that other elves are interested in void magic doesn't say much. I am interested in football, I am literally delving into it and have been for many years, but I don't transform my body to be in super-shape to start playing it again. Being interested into void magic does not mean that they are going to be Void Elves.

I believe claiming he wasn't answering the question is not a realistic counter-point. He was answering the question. The wording he uses shows he was answering the question.

'They START as a small group' he said. He has just been asked about Void Elf numbers. The source of the question is the common point raised about Void Elves, how can a group so small in number at the initial transformation be so numerous in game? Phrasing it as 'they start' in response to a question about numbers immediately conditions the reader to assume that if they start as a small group, then that small group has since gotten larger.

He then segues to talking about the 'Elves', note he does not clarify either Blood Elves or Alliance High Elves, he just says Elves who have heard about them, who are seeking them out and who are looking to undergo a similar process. Remember, the answer on this point is still about Void Elf numbers. He said they start as a small group, leading to the expectation they are expanding in numbers. He is now talking about the Elves who are seeking them out to see if they can undergo a similar process. At no point has he said that that process is unavailable...if that process was unavailable it would make the entire answer nonsensical, as Elves who cannot turn into Void Elves are not increasing Void Elf numbers, which is the point of the question. His final line on this point is as follows

They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”

Which means while they are not out they proselytising, they are open to other Elves joining them who want to do so. And he is not talking about studying the void...he is talking about Void Elf numbers. Attempting to confuse an answer regarding Void Elf numbers so that he talks about other Elves who want to study the void, in other words not answering the question, strikes me as a deliberately wrong reading of what he is saying.

That he answered the question he was asked, and that the obvious reading of that answer, that Void Elves are turning other willing Elves into Void Elves and thus expanding their numbers, is the simplest explanation.

Occam's razor applies here.

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Then you should stop using that sentence. "Word of God" implies that the answer given is absolute and "set in stone", i.e. cannot and would not be changed. The moment you say "word of God" it heavily implies that what was said is static and will never change.

On multiple occasions I have said that Word of God is an absolute until contradicted by future word of god. The thing about it though is that only Blizzard can use word of god, we can't. Until such time as it is contradicted, it is absolute truth.

Except those are beasts. We don't know the extent of what happened to their minds as they are transformed. On top of that, it heavily implies that the void also heavily speeds up their growth so they're adult in a matter of minutes, at most, considering there's adult "void-saurs" around, already, and that again we have no indication of the effects on their bodies are.

That they can do that to ravasaurs is not an indication that they can already do the same to other elves in a safe manner.

It shows that they can void-ify beings and not convert them into ethereals. The principles of void-ifying a beast and void-ifying an elf are similar, considering we have seen both processes and both involved being bombarded by void energies.

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I can't believe there are still people giving so much credit and importance of Void elves being able to turn others.

Goddamn guys, seriously. As I said, only a fool would not understand that unless the entirety of the High elves pass through something that makes them disappear or whatever that makes them CEASE TO EXIST, the High elf request will still have it's reason to be. It's so simple that it demonstrates how much bullshit some are inclined to take just to go against it.

Seriously... There are some who can't stand the simple concept of High elves being wanted because they have been seen in the lore and in the game as part of the Alliance, even WAY WAY WAY after the majority of their homeland turned to a new chapter into the Horde.

Void elves turning High elves would not change shit, High elves would still be there, existing, and that's what the whole request is all about. Seriously, all this argument of Void elves turning whatever is pure bullshit that do not lead to anywhere. It's the biggest red herring I have seen in the entire thread.

Yes, Moorgard's response was a clear non-answer. It's totally ridiculous to try to push it as a truth. We will have to SEE what will happen with the Void elves. What Moorgard said -did not- clarify shit -at all-. He just added onto what we ALREADY KNEW, that there are other Thalassian elves learning about void magic with them because they seek for them after the news about Alleria, the stupid decisions of Rommath, and the possibility of learning about this magical force in an advanced and secure place.

WOW WHAT A REVELATION WOW OMFG HOW INCREDIBLE ISN'T IT?!?!

Seriously, don't answer anymore about the red herring that is the hypothetical Voidification, as even it if it's true, it doesn't even lead to anywhere important to the discussion.

Are High elves there? Simply existing? We want them. Dancing around this fact is pathetic.

The point about Void Elves being able convert is key to one of the core arguments of the pro High Elf community.

The accusation is that you seek Alliance High Elves solely for the aesthetics and culture of a group identical to a core race of the Horde, the sole difference between the two groups being political opinion. The defense is that that is not the case, what you seek is an Elf that has never served the Horde, never betrayed the Alliance and who has served the Alliance for as long as possible.

If that defense is true, then aesthetics and culture should not matter. Therefore, being able to roleplay a Void Elf as a former Alliance High Elf who has embraced the Void means that the lore objection has been met and that Alliance High Elves are not required in their own right.

If Void Elves do include former Alliance High Elves, and yet are still rejected, it becomes clear to all that the lore objection was a fig leaf and that it really is all about the aesthetics and culture of a Horde race.

[Amaterasu65]

It's pretty sad seeing one person filling almost 600 forum pages objecting to pixels being allowed to a group of players, with this kind of arguements. Legit cringe.

[Obelisk Kai]

Don't you realize -Alliance- High elves are -Alliance- identity? Is that so hard to understand?

Honestly, there's not much to do with someone who denies such fact.

High elves are not Blood elves. Sorry, it's the truth.

No, they are not a part of the Alliance's identity. There are simply too few Alliance High Elves left. They have no leader within the upper ranks of the Alliance. Most of them live in the neutral city of Dalaran.

The identity of the Alliance is Human (both types), Dwarvish (both types), Draenei (both types), Gnomish (both types?), Worgen, Night Elven with some Pandaren and Void Elves making up the fringes.

Alliance High Elves are equivalent to the Scryers, a non Horde group of thalssian elves living in a neutral city pursuing their own ends. Alliance High Elves are as different from the Blood Elves as the Scryers are.
Alliance High Elves have as much right to be regarded as a distinct race as the Scryers do.

[RangerDaz]

Good news Helf zealots. It's not a coincidence that High Elves are being rumored as an allied race at the same time of the factions breaking down in 9.0. So, the devs are definitely sticking to their guns on faction identity, but hey at least you get your Helves!!!!!!!!

Are you talking about one of the "leaks"?

Because as we know from the past, "leaks" are usually made by attention seeking trolls... being 1-2% originated from true leakers.

Btw, i'm all for High Elves in the Alliance, just not Void Elves with High Elf skins.
Its just like giving a Wildhammer skin to Dark Iron Dwarves, it just doesnt make sense lorewise.

[Obelisk Kai]

It's pretty sad seeing one person filling almost 600 forum pages objecting to pixels being allowed to a group of players, with this kind of arguements. Legit cringe.

On the contrary they are denying themselves. Those pixels are already available to anyone who wants them.

[Amaterasu65]

No, they are not a part of the Alliance's identity. There are simply too few Alliance High Elves left. They have no leader within the upper ranks of the Alliance. Most of them live in the neutral city of Dalaran.

The identity of the Alliance is Human (both types), Dwarvish (both types), Draenei (both types), Gnomish (both types?), Worgen, Night Elven with some Pandaren and Void Elves making up the fringes.

Alliance High Elves are equivalent to the Scryers, a non Horde group of thalssian elves living in a neutral city pursuing their own ends. Alliance High Elves are as different from the Blood Elves as the Scryers are.
Alliance High Elves have as much right to be regarded as a distinct race as the Scryers do.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant

Totally neutral.

[Doffen]

Which means while they are not out they proselytising, they are open to other Elves joining them who want to do so. And he is not talking about studying the void...he is talking about Void Elf numbers. Attempting to confuse an answer regarding Void Elf numbers so that he talks about other Elves who want to study the void, in other words not answering the question, strikes me as a deliberately wrong reading of what he is saying.

You can stop reaching. He stated that other elves are interested in the void, you use the word studying, as well as interested, both legit words to use on this matter, I have used both, you are using both. That you even try to make it so that I confuse his answer with something else when it was part of the quote is silly. It's a non-answer. You are once again trying to refute other peoples argument by twisting the words, both from posters and the actual quote. It is not stated that any other elves than blood elves are turning into void elves, yet. And stop saying it is, when even WoG don't have something that proves that point.

He is indeed talking about Void Elf numbers, he just don't have the real answer to the actual question. It's speculating. Again, it's not shown anywhere that Alliance High Elves are being turned into Void Elves. As long as it isn't, you and the rest of us are speculating.

[scubi666stacy]

Don't you realize -Alliance- High elves are -Alliance- identity? Is that so hard to understand?

Honestly, there's not much to do with someone who denies such fact.

High elves are not Blood elves. Sorry, it's the truth.

They are not since the Alliance stabbed them in their backs in WC III.
End of story.

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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant

Totally neutral.

Still they belong to the Kirin Tor, and are there to represent them in the game. They just serve the same function as the Sunreavers, being the "city contacts" for the two factions.

[Ielenia]

What baffles me is players who are happy to neglect faction identity and race uniqueness all because they want a Horde race available on the Alliance too.

Thank goodness nobody her wants that. All we're asking is to play a race that has already been part of the Alliance since day 1. We don't want blood elves. We want high elves.

It's funny how people against the idea of high elves seem to think that those that do want high elves apparently want to "rip blood elves out of the Horde" or something, that they'll somehow "lose lore" or something to that effect... when none of that would happen.

And it's "the biggest red herring" that these players claim it's all about the lore, not the aesthetics.

It is about the lore.

If you truly appreciated the lore then you'd accept that A) blood elves are high elves, and are THE high elves of WoW,

False. Blood elves are the blood elves of WoW. High elves are the high elves of wow. High elf NPCs are a thing that exists in the game. The high elf group exists in the game.

and B) alliance high elves are a dying breed (unlike the void elves who appear to be growing in ranks) who are becoming more n more 'human' as each year passes, as they're assimilating into human society and slowly fading away.

140% irrelevant. Because lore about more high elves can be written in the game. Blizzard didn't just write in a completely new group of tauren back in Legion? The exact same thing can be done for the high elves. And that's just one of many possibilities. Worst case scenario, Blizzard can just retcon their "dying breed" nonsense. Wouldn't be the first time.

Blood elves are our high elves. As such, alliance high elves being playable would directly impede on the uniqueness and identity of the blood elves. That's the reality of this debate, and why alliance high elves are likely to never playable.

False. False. And false. Blood elves are your blood elves. High elves are our high elves. They're two separate groups in the game. We have high elf NPCs and blood elf NPCs. Void elves did not "impede on the uniqueness and identity of the blood elves" despite being actual blood elves, not high elves. Yet I don't see you making a fuss about them.

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On multiple occasions I have said that Word of God is an absolute until contradicted by future word of god. The thing about it though is that only Blizzard can use word of god, we can't. Until such time as it is contradicted, it is absolute truth.

They it's not "word of god". It's merely "I want to call it 'word of god' in an attempt to quell any dissent toward my opinions".

"Word of god" is ever immutable. Never changing. If it can change, then it's not "word of god".

It shows that they can void-ify beings and not convert them into ethereals.

How do you know that those raptors aren't dead (or brain-dead) and just "puppets" to the void magic controlling them? Remember: the void-infusion likely caused rapid-growth on the raptors in those eggs to make them adults. Or how do we know that they're simply not void aberrations that took the shape of those raptors?

The principles of void-ifying a beast and void-ifying an elf are similar, considering we have seen both processes and both involved being bombarded by void energies.

Uh... no? Not unless you're bringing both down to their simplest, most basic definitions. But then again it would border on dishonesty because then we could say that dancing and walking are similar, since both involve putting a foot in front of the other.

[FlubberPuddy]

They it's not "word of god". It's merely "I want to call it 'word of god' in an attempt to quell any dissent toward my opinions".

"Word of god" is ever immutable. Never changing. If it can change, then it's not "word of god".

It's almost like trying to say, "until it changes then it can't change". Which makes no sense. Either something is immutable or it is mutable.

One can say "it is true until it changes" but that misses the point of the discussion which is that it can change.

[Obelisk Kai]

They it's not "word of god". It's merely "I want to call it 'word of god' in an attempt to quell any dissent toward my opinions".

"Word of god" is ever immutable. Never changing. If it can change, then it's not "word of god".

Then you have a profound misunderstanding of what Word of God is in regards to developer commentary. Word of God is not immutable, and I have never claimed that it is immutable. Word of God represents the truth as we know it, provided through developer commentary. If a developer says something in future that proves a previous comment wrong, then THAT becomes the absolute truth in it's place.

Word of God characterizes the game world as it is, not as how you wish it to be. So long as the last word on the subject proves you wrong on what you want or how you interpret events, then you are wrong. Only the developers, as creators of the game, can alter word of god.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Whatever they say is true until they say it isn't. How else could it be with a work of fiction they control?

How do you know that those raptors aren't dead (or brain-dead) and just "puppets" to the void magic controlling them? Remember: the void-infusion likely caused rapid-growth on the raptors in those eggs to make them adults. Or how do we know that they're simply not void aberrations that took the shape of those raptors?

Throwing out possibilities at random rather than going with the obvious one isn't exactly the best form of debate, however this one is easy to dismiss. We know because Horde players have to check in with Gonk, the Ravasaur loa, before engaging in the quest to harvest Void Elf heads.

'The Elven puppets of the Void have come to infest my children with their dark magics' is his response. So they aren't undead, they aren't void-shaped aberrations, and the void elves corrupting eggs does not preclude them from corrupting adults as well.

Uh... no? Not unless you're bringing both down to their simplest, most basic definitions. But then again it would border on dishonesty because then we could say that dancing and walking are similar, since both involve putting a foot in front of the other.

Umm...yes? As I said, we have seen both processes and the fundamentals are the same. Take a living being, blast it with void energy until it begins to change, stop before it becomes an ethereal.

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One can say "it is true until it changes" but that misses the point of the discussion which is that it can change.

But that is what I am saying, that it can change is irrelevant to the debate because at that point why even bother having a debate? They can change what they want, it's their game. What is important is that it is true right now.

The issue is that the more they do on a topic, the harder it is to justify a retcon. Saying the Eredar were always evil beings whose awfulness corrupted Sargeras and then saying they were an advanced civilization that was corrupted by Sargeras was an easy retcon, because there was nothing in game that contradicted this change until it was made explicit by the addition of the Draenei in the Burning Crusade. Who in the end cared that a few lines of text in a game manual that had no other impact had been disregarded?

However, if they were minded to go the other way NOW, and to decide that in actual fact the Eredar had been evil all along and their awfulness had corrupted Sargeras, then while they could do that, and while they have the authority to do that, to do that they would have to go against the past thirteen years of established lore including hundreds of characters, quests and multiple events spanning twenty five thousand years of Warcraft history. In other words, even though they could do it if they wanted, the reality of the game as the game is now would prevent it.

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You can stop reaching. He stated that other elves are interested in the void, you use the word studying, as well as interested, both legit words to use on this matter, I have used both, you are using both. That you even try to make it so that I confuse his answer with something else when it was part of the quote is silly. It's a non-answer. You are once again trying to refute other peoples argument by twisting the words, both from posters and the actual quote. It is not stated that any other elves than blood elves are turning into void elves, yet. And stop saying it is, when even WoG don't have something that proves that point.

He is indeed talking about Void Elf numbers, he just don't have the real answer to the actual question. It's speculating. Again, it's not shown anywhere that Alliance High Elves are being turned into Void Elves. As long as it isn't, you and the rest of us are speculating.

I am afraid your answer doesn't make sense. You state he is talking about Void Elf numbers, but then argue his response is vague and he doesn't have the answer. I believe you are tying yourself in rhetorical knots attempting to argue that the answer he gave wasn't an answer. Because this guy is the Senior Narrative Lead...the one they sent to talk to Polygon about the Allied races. If anyone knows the answer, he does, and he gave one.

I also refute that I am twisting his words, particularly as I have gone through his answer with a fine tooth comb and shown how the phrasing of the answer supports that Void Elves are expanding their numbers.

I did ask earlier for an explanation of his answer that covered the main points I have raised which are, again

a.) The questioner was asking where Void Elf numbers come from
b.) Moorgard's answer began with the statement that the Void Elves start as a small group, therefore leading the reader to expect their numbers have increased since that start.
c.) He talks about the Elves, not specifying Alliance High Elves or Blood Elves, just Elves, who have sought the Void Elves out to see if they can become Void Elves too (undergo a similar process).

I am still waiting for an alternative that is serious, not a 'he didn't know' or 'he decided to talk about non Void Elf elves when asked about Void Elf numbers'.

[Ielenia]

Then you have a profound misunderstanding of what Word of God is in regards to developer commentary. Word of God is not immutable, and I have never claimed that it is immutable. Word of God represents the truth as we know it, provided through developer commentary. If a developer says something in future that proves a previous comment wrong, then THAT becomes the absolute truth in it's place.

"Word of god" is immutable. That's the whole reason for using the word "god" in it. Like Flubberpuddy mentioned in his post above yours, saying "it doesn't change, until it changes" is completely pointless since the entire point of this thread is that things do change.

Throwing out possibilities at random rather than going with the obvious one isn't exactly the best form of debate,

Um.. sorry. There is nothing "obvious", here. Do put down your bias, please.

however this one is easy to dismiss. We know because Horde players have to check in with Gonk, the Ravasaur loa, before engaging in the quest to harvest Void Elf heads.

'The Elven puppets of the Void have come to infest my children with their dark magics' is his response. So they aren't undead, they aren't void-shaped aberrations, and the void elves corrupting eggs does not preclude them from corrupting adults as well.

No, sorry. That doesn't mean anything. Because the exact same thing can be said if my hypothesis was true: they are infesting the children of Gonk with the void, regardless if the end result are living aberrations, dead aberrations, or "living but brain-dead" aberrations.

Umm...yes? As I said, we have seen both processes and the fundamentals are the same. Take a living being, blast it with void energy until it begins to change, stop before it becomes an ethereal.

Then your point is completely meaningless because you don't know the exact process and are just drawing conclusions from inconclusive evidence based solely on your bias. It really shows how you're reaching because you're ignoring a truck-load of details and particulars in and effort make both process "similar" in nothing but their most basic concepts.

[Neverafter]

Ok, so we know only a handful of Blood Elfs undertook the original process that created Void Elves.

We see in game Blood Elves and High Elves in Telgorus.

We can see in game there are more Void Elves now than that original process.

So is the question whether or not the elves are being converted against their will or voluntarily or what?