Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Maxilian]

When you roll a Void Elf, you start off in Telogrus and are given quests specifically framed around you being a Void Elf. When you hit max level, you will be given a heritage armor set only Void Elves use. When you make any kind of emote, you will be speaking in the reverb voice Void Elves have. When you joke, the jokes will reference you being a Void Elf. When you fight, you will embrace the void through entropic embrace or short range void teleports.

That is Blizzard stepping in, not the impossibility of them policing a choice that doesn't match with the rest of the game, but by ensuring there is no way the 'fantasy' you have in mind can be sustained.



A dragon in disguise is plausible. Dragons have been shown to disguise themselves as any race they wish. Except Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei, whose respective transformations will have been certified and witnessed.
As for those who roleplay their Humans as high elves, those people have very good imaginations. But they are still playing humans, the rest of the gaming community doesn't have to indulge that notion. If it looks like a Human, talks like a Human, jokes like a Human, fights like a Human and emotes like a Human, then it's a human.



Nope, if an Orc can wear it a plausible story can be written as to why they are wearing it. I am not arguing against extreme situations. I am arguing against narrative impossibilities. If you roleplay a Void Elf, you have to accept you are playing a Void Elf.



Yet it will still be a Void Elf. And as I said, if they persist in pushing this impossibility, that they are a High Elf who never became a Void Elf, the game itself has delivered us a narrative explanation. That this particular Void Elf has gone mad.

Now, if you wanted to play Void Elf who had gone nuts and thought they were uncorrupted, then by all means, that is something there would be no issue with.

I mean... i do understand what you're saying, and lorewise, you're right, but they are also right that you can RP whatever you want, though you also have to understand that others may not willing to RP with someone that's going for something that's not "canon", in general, what i want to say, is that... RP doesn't matter, in the end, if we go with that, i RP as a Maghar Priest that use Crystal to channel the light instead of actually having faith in the light, is that canon? NOPE, is that plausible? I think so (we do see different races using this type of magic -Like Non-corrupted Arakkoa-), but in the end, is just RP, is nothing to argue about

[Obelisk Kai]

I mean... i do understand what you're saying, and lorewise, you're right, but they are also right that you can RP whatever you want, though you also have to understand that others may not willing to RP with someone that's going for something that's not "canon", in general, what i want to say, is that... RP doesn't matter, in the end, if we go with that, i RP as a Maghar Priest that use Crystal to channel the light instead of actually having faith in the light, is that canon? NOPE, is that plausible? I think so (we do see different races using this type of magic -Like Non-corrupted Arakkoa-), but in the end, is just RP, is nothing to argue about

If they personally want to play a lie that is up to them. Personally I think it much better if the roleplaying works within the bounds established by the choice of race, class and faction. But while it is up to them to play how they want to play, they are still playing something that breaks narrative and which falls apart if poked too closely.

I will take being right generally against the person roleplaying an impossibility being right inside their own minds.

[Maxilian]

Which is weird because they only appeared in storylines when Dalaran was involved and are barely seen when Dalaran isn't involved.

Perhaps that is because they live in Dalaran and owe that city a greater loyalty than they do the Alliance? They sat out the recent war after all.

Well... i don't care much about HEs, but did they really sat down during the recent war? if i remember correctly, there were many HE NPC in the Alliance side in the Arathi Highlands, i think....

[Obelisk Kai]

Well... i don't care much about HEs, but did they really sat down during the recent war? if i remember correctly, there were many HE NPC in the Alliance side in the Arathi Highlands, i think....

There were two 7th Legion Shield Mages on the airship in arathi. They did no fighting.

There was a Mage who opened portals between the warfront and Boralus. She did no fighting.

There was Frostfencer Seraphi who was the only one who did any actual fighting.

Grand total of four.

Even I, who maintain High Elf numbers are incredibly low (because every time Blizzard is asked, that is what they say), would maintain that if they were a true part of the Alliance, they'd have put on a better showing.

[Ielenia]

And what evidence do you have it's outdated?

The fact it has stopped being updated for over ten years, was removed from the website over ten years ago, with no evidence in sight of its return. And the fact its stories are over ten years outdated, with much having changed in the lore since then.

Which is weird because they only appeared in storylines when Dalaran was involved and are barely seen when Dalaran isn't involved.

And when they show up, they always side with the Alliance against the Horde. They never sided with the Horde against the Alliance. That alone should tell you of their allegiances.

[FlubberPuddy]

I mean... i do understand what you're saying, and lorewise, you're right, but they are also right that you can RP whatever you want, though you also have to understand that others may not willing to RP with someone that's going for something that's not "canon", in general, what i want to say, is that... RP doesn't matter, in the end, if we go with that, i RP as a Maghar Priest that use Crystal to channel the light instead of actually having faith in the light, is that canon? NOPE, is that plausible? I think so (we do see different races using this type of magic -Like Non-corrupted Arakkoa-), but in the end, is just RP, is nothing to argue about

Yes you understand 100% completely what I've been trying to say.

In that people can choose to RP how they want and no one has "a right" to say "that's wrong" "that's not possible" because it is all made up roleplay.

Do people have to RP with that person? Nope. Is what they RP canon? No, by nature RPing isn't canon in an established game with established set pieces/story. We are all the exact same Blood Elf/Night Elf/Human/Orc hero when we do all the set piece quests etc that are laid out for us by Blizzard.

What we RP in the meantime though is open and doesn't matter to the established game. Therefore it is very open for interpretation.

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Snip, narrative impossibilities blah blah

You're still not understanding. Whether to choose to engage someone on whether their RP is canon or not doesn't matter, because all RP in the game isn't canon. You could RP as an Orc that doesn't agree with the faction conflict, that doesn't change that the only way for you to do the War Campaign is to participate in the faction conflict.

In a game with established quests/stories, RPing by nature becomes non-canon in every sense of the word.

But the thing is, if people want to participate in that RP then they're able to do so and all involved as well. If you don't want to, that's cool too. But nobody is beholden to anything while RPing in WoW.

As you said, the people that RP humans have good imagination, that's the very essence of RP. Using your imagination. If you can't fathom imagining someone's RP that's okay, you do not have to and they do not need your blessing/agreement to do so.

[Zantos]

Have you considered that you maybe don't want to get the point at all?

High elves are an unplayable part of the Alliance, that is why they are asked, period.

If I didn't want to get the point, then I wouldn't ask a question that you are clearly incapable of answering. So I hope someone else can at least answer it since I see no point in getting a race that is 100% a different race, but called high elves.

[Maxilian]

There were two 7th Legion Shield Mages on the airship in arathi. They did no fighting.

There was a Mage who opened portals between the warfront and Boralus. She did no fighting.

There was Frostfencer Seraphi who was the only one who did any actual fighting.

Grand total of four.

Even I, who maintain High Elf numbers are incredibly low (because every time Blizzard is asked, that is what they say), would maintain that if they were a true part of the Alliance, they'd have put on a better showing.

Fair Enough, i still think that for the Alliance, the HE are a dead race that will slowly but surely transform almost completely into Void Elves, heck, we might end up with a big group of Void Elves and Half-elves in the Alliance before we get a big group of HEs (Though i guess the HEs number can increase depending how Void Elves reproduce)

[Manariel]

@Obelisk Kai
I have a question regarding the joke you were talking about, the one trashing the High Elves according to you.

Is it a female joke ? Because - at least in French - the only one which mentions the High Elves is roughly translated from French would be "First high Elves. Then, Blood Elves. And then Void Elves. Yes, the order is important."

Which seems to imply that all playable Void Elves are indeed former Blood Elves. Is there another one for the men ?

Edit :

Found the jokes on Wowhead.

The male one would be : "I know what you're thinking... "Oh goody, another elf." Well... I bet you weren't expecting a VOID elf, now were you?"

the female one would be : "First was high, then blood, and now void. Get the order right."

Which still reinforces the posit that all playable Void Elves are former Blood Elves. And nothing in there take a shot to High Elves in my eyes. I mean, if you squint perhaps the male joke can do that. But in that respect, I kindly offer to Blizzard to create a seventh Primordial Force and imbue Taurens with it. It'll be just as unexpected.

[Obelisk Kai]

@Obelisk Kai
I have a question regarding the joke you were talking about, the one trashing the High Elves according to you.

Is it a female joke ? Because - at least in French - the only one which mentions the High Elves is roughly translated from French would be "First high Elves. Then, Blood Elves. And then Void Elves. Yes, the order is important."

Which seems to imply that all playable Void Elves are indeed former Blood Elves. Is there another one for the men ?

Edit :

Found the jokes on Wowhead.

The male one would be : "I know what you're thinking... "Oh goody, another elf." Well... I bet you weren't expecting a VOID elf, now were you?"

the female one would be : "First was high, then blood, and now void. Get the order right."

Which still reinforces the posit that all playable Void Elves are former Blood Elves. And nothing in there take a shot to High Elves in my eyes. I mean, if you squint perhaps the male joke can do that. But in that respect, I kindly offer to Blizzard to create a seventh Primordial Force and imbue Taurens with it. It'll be just as unexpected.

'Trashing the High Elves' is a bit harsh. They are subtly mocking, and as I recall feelings regarding Void Elves were so raw in the pro High Elf community following their announcements that these light jokes were taken personally by some people as Blizzard insulting them.

In regards to the 'First high Elves...' joke, that does not imply that the void elf making the joke can only be a former blood elf at all. It could be interpreted to refer to the order of appearance of each group. First High Elves emerged, then almost all High Elves changed their name to Blood Elf, then Void Elves emerged.

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Fair Enough, i still think that for the Alliance, the HE are a dead race that will slowly but surely transform almost completely into Void Elves, heck, we might end up with a big group of Void Elves and Half-elves in the Alliance before we get a big group of HEs (Though i guess the HEs number can increase depending how Void Elves reproduce)

I don't think that is required. I think there are only a few high elves left, a combination of rangers exiled for refusing to drain mana to sate their addiction and those high elf mages who remained in Dalaran and chose that city over Silvermoon. Because of Veressa's relationship with Rhonin, when he became the head of the Kirin Tor, many of the former moved to the same city where the later where already dwelling.

This is why Dalaran is the only city containing anything approaching a noticeable population of high elven exiles. This has been borne out in game as well. There have been three occasions in which the Silver Covenant has played a substantial role in the story.
During Wrath of the Lich King, when Dalaran relocated to Northrend to aid efforts against the Scourge and the blue dragonflight.
During Mists of Pandaria, when Dalaran officially allied with the Alliance and high elf exile forces were present as part of the Kirin Tor offensive on the isle of thunder.
During Legion, when the Silver Covenant joined the Hunter order hall and participated in the liberation of Suramar, at a time when anti-legion efforts were concentrated in Dalaran.

On all three occasions, Dalaran played a major role in that expansion's storyline. Any area with a noticeable concentration of high elven exiles has almost always been associated with Dalaran (quel'lithien lodge being an exception, but that isn't a major population center for the exiles).
During the recent war, the Silver Covenant was not present. Dalaran was neutral during the recent war. In fact, I believe dataminers discovered that the two 7th Legion shield mages who are on board the Alliance airship are actually tagged as Silver Covenant in the data, but to even do this much for the Alliance they had to put on 7th Legion uniforms

I believe the evidence is pretty straightforward. Whilst the surviving high elf exiles favour the alliance, and seek to aid the Alliance whenever they can, they are technically not a part of the Alliance as they live in the city of Dalaran. In the same way any Kirin Tor human mage would favour the Alliance for obvious reasons, but are not part of the Alliance because Dalaran must maintain a position of neutrality towards the Horde. Any Silver Covenant elf who did want to fight for the Alliance had to put on a uniform of the 7th Legion to wage that war. Exceptionally few did. This would imply most surviving high elves do not wish to imperil Dalaran's neutrality. After all, the Silver Covenant put on a better showing for the Alliance on the isle of thunder than the measly four elves they managed in BFA.

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snip.

Then if you don't actually need a high elf to roleplay as a high elf, then you've demonstrated you don't require a distinct high elf allied race or normal skin tone options on void elves to achieve it. A blue void elf as is should completely suffice.

Given how hard the pro High Elf community has pushed for these options, I sincerely doubt many of them will share that point of view.

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The fact it has stopped being updated for over ten years, was removed from the website over ten years ago, with no evidence in sight of its return. And the fact its stories are over ten years outdated, with much having changed in the lore since then.

It was removed because the project was abandoned, but the articles they had published were confirmed to be canon by Sean Copeland aka Loreology. Changes in lore since their publication reflect the evolution of the story, not retconning.

And when they show up, they always side with the Alliance against the Horde. They never sided with the Horde against the Alliance. That alone should tell you of their allegiances.

They sided with the Alliance on one single occasion, when Dalaran declared for the Alliance during Mists of Pandaria. In WOTLK they facilitated the Alliance, but they did not side with the Alliance. In Legion they fought beside Alliance and Horde forces during the liberation of Suramar, under the clear aegis of the Kirin Tor.

They are Alliance aligned, but Dalaran loyal. There is a distinction.

[Ielenia]

It was removed because the project was abandoned, but the articles they had published were confirmed to be canon by Sean Copeland aka Loreology. Changes in lore since their publication reflect the evolution of the story, not retconning.

So what? It still doesn't change the fact that it's outdated information. Just like you wouldn't use a political magazine from 2006 to find out what's the political scenario in 2019, now would you?

And that's the point.

They sided with the Alliance on one single occasion, when Dalaran declared for the Alliance during Mists of Pandaria. In WOTLK they facilitated the Alliance, but they did not side with the Alliance. In Legion they fought beside Alliance and Horde forces during the liberation of Suramar, under the clear aegis of the Kirin Tor.

They are Alliance aligned, but Dalaran loyal. There is a distinction.

High elves also helped the Alliance and were against the Horde in The Burning Crusade. And in Wrath of the Lich King. High elf NPCs would attack Horde players on sight outside of neutral grounds (Dalaran/Argent Tournament). High elves are fighting for the Alliance right now in BfA too.

[Obelisk Kai]

So what? It still doesn't change the fact that it's outdated information. Just like you wouldn't use a political magazine from 2006 to find out what's the political scenario in 2019, now would you?

And that's the point.

Actually a magazine from 2006 would be important in trying to understand where the scenario in 2019 came from, so yes, there would be value in that. Just as the encyclopedia articles have value today are still canonical as of the moment they were written. The story today flows from how it was set up then, and nothing in those articles has been retconned.

High elves also helped the Alliance and were against the Horde in The Burning Crusade. And in Wrath of the Lich King. High elf NPCs would attack Horde players on sight outside of neutral grounds (Dalaran/Argent Tournament). High elves are fighting for the Alliance right now in BfA too.

The few high elves in TBC were the five or six in Allerian Stronghold...which itself was more Human than elf. And yes, the High elf exiles in WOTLK assisted the Alliance. They are pro-Alliance. They are just not a formal part of the Alliance, as evidenced by their absence from the fourth war except two individuals who had to join the 7th legion to participate.

[elbleuet]

Dalaran is an Alliance nation working with the Horde, ruled by Khadgar, an Alliance character.

All high elves in Dalaran are either Alliance, or Alliance but neutral with the Horde.

[FlubberPuddy]

Then if you don't actually need a high elf to roleplay as a high elf, then you've demonstrated you don't require a distinct high elf allied race or normal skin tone options on void elves to achieve it. A blue void elf as is should completely suffice.

Given how hard the pro High Elf community has pushed for these options, I sincerely doubt many of them will share that point of view.

The point of this line of convo is that people can RP however they wish and no one else can dictate that with any amount of authority except for maybe Blizzard. And one can either choose to engage in that person's RP or not.

You have been coming off as being some sort of authority on what people can and cannot RP which is ridiculous, which is why I said no one needs your blessing to RP how they wish.

Now about your attempt to be a smartass here, if Blizzard actually agreed with the statement you're making here then we wouldn't have such things as increased customizations or Allied Races or new races in the first place. It saves them time/money/resources to do nothing vs do something.

Nobody needed any of the Allied Races to play a race, a Mag'har wasn't required to play an Orc, nor to RP as a Mag'har. But the option is nice. And most players in WoW love more options rather than less options.

You're trying to couple our RP convo we're having as if it's linked to the requests of additions people want in the game. They are separate. Hence what someone RPs as has no bearing on what someone wants to request for in the game.

[Obelisk Kai]

Dalaran is an Alliance nation working with the Horde, ruled by Khadgar, an Alliance character.

All high elves in Dalaran are either Alliance, or Alliance but neutral with the Horde.

Dalaran declared neutrality the moment they reinvited the Horde back in during Legion. This is why Jaina left.

Khadgar leads the Council of Six, and in the Legion epilogue quests in Silithus declared he had fought beside Horde and Alliance and would not choose between them. Dalaran persisted in it's neutrality during the course of Legion where the number of Kirin Tor mages or Kirin Tor forces assisting the Alliance war effort was zero.

Two high elf shield mages who shielded the airship (and did not fight) were tagged as silver covenant in the data, but were listed as 7th Legion NPCs.

The high elven exiles did not have a meaningful participation in the war. The only high elven exile we have evidence for who actually struck a blow for the Alliance was Frostfencer Seraphi.

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The point of this line of convo is that people can RP however they wish and no one else can dictate that with any amount of authority except for maybe Blizzard. And one can either choose to engage in that person's RP or not.

You have been coming off as being some sort of authority on what people can and cannot RP which is ridiculous, which is why I said no one needs your blessing to RP how they wish.

Now about your attempt to be a smartass here, if Blizzard actually agreed with the statement you're making here then we wouldn't have such things as increased customizations or Allied Races or new races in the first place. It saves them time/money/resources to do nothing vs do something.

Nobody needed any of the Allied Races to play a race, a Mag'har wasn't required to play an Orc, nor to RP as a Mag'har. But the option is nice. And most players in WoW love more options rather than less options.

You're trying to couple our RP convo we're having as if it's linked to the requests of additions people want in the game. They are separate. Hence what someone RPs as has no bearing on what someone wants to request for in the game.

Customizations mean the options have heft and are real. There is a distinction between roleplaying something which has a customization that means the game's narrative allows it and something you have to roleplay in your own head because everything in the game tells you that you are indulging a narrative nonsense.

If you want to pretend to be a high elf by using a Void Elf, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. But the lack of customizations supporting that position means that reality exists so far as your own mind, and those who deign to humor it.

[Ielenia]

Actually a magazine from 2006 would be important in trying to understand where the scenario in 2019 came from, so yes, there would be value in that.

"This political magazine from 2006 says that the president is George Bush. That means that the president today, in 2019, is not Trump, but Bush." That's how you're sounding, right now.

It doesn't matter what were the relations between high elves and humans because things evolved from that, as shown in-game, as we have more and more high elves being active participant in the Alliance matters.

[FlubberPuddy]

If you want to pretend to be a high elf by using a Void Elf, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. But the lack of customizations supporting that position means that reality exists so far as your own mind, and those who deign to humor it.

Not sure how it took so many posts of discussion for you to understand that. Yes it’s that simple.

It also doesn’t exclude someone from asking for additional race customization to be added on top of what you wrote above.

Just like how people would RP their green Orcs as Mag’har and still ask for Mag’har Orcs to be playable in the Horde.

Just like how people would RP their dwarves as Wildhammer and still ask for Wildhammer to be playable in the Alliance.

So with the High Elf situation, it’s not a 0/1 system.

You can RP your Void Elf as a High Elf, yet also continue to ask for additional High Elf customization in the Alliance, especially since High Elves already do exist in the Alliance faction.

As with the pic Shakana shared, we see a modified Void Elf hairstyle coming to Blood Elves, therefore the same race sharing customization options looks to be something Blizzard accepts doing. At least atm based on that pic finding.

[Obelisk Kai]

Not sure how it took so many posts of discussion for you to understand that. Yes it’s that simple.

It also doesn’t exclude someone from asking for additional race customization to be added on top of what you wrote above.

Just like how people would RP their green Orcs as Mag’har and still ask for Mag’har Orcs to be playable in the Horde.

Just like how people would RP their dwarves as Wildhammer and still ask for Wildhammer to be playable in the Alliance.

So with the High Elf situation, it’s not a 0/1 system.

You can RP your Void Elf as a High Elf, yet also continue to ask for additional High Elf customization in the Alliance, especially since High Elves already do exist in the Alliance faction.

As with the pic Shakana shared, we see a modified Void Elf hairstyle coming to Blood Elves, therefore the same race sharing customization options looks to be something Blizzard accepts doing. At least atm based on that pic finding.

No, I understand it fine. My mistake was in presuming that you were attempting to find a victory in the minds of other people, to argue that they would have to accept your Void Elf as a High Elf under certain circumstances. Now that you've made clear what you really mean is simply a fantasy they will tell themselves , I find it's a victory I can live with. Like the one many people have imagined themselves during their childhood, of scoring the winning goal for your country in a world cup final. It's one devoid of genuine meaning and substance given how contrary such a fantasy is to the reality of void elf, but merely harmless make believe that has to deal with entropic embrace proccing every minute or so.

As for Shakana's picture, that's a fan-edit. And hairstyles have been shared before between races, so as an example it's fairly meaningless.

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It doesn't matter what were the relations between high elves and humans because things evolved from that, as shown in-game, as we have more and more high elves being active participant in the Alliance matters.

The only thing shown in game is that the high elves operate mostly within Dalaran where they have had a long term presence and only occasionally do they venture into Stormwind. You cannot say for sure that the entire Alliance now views a group they will have had barely any interaction with in a positive light.

Even if they had managed to overcome that mistrust, the Alliance population has fresh reasons to mistrust the Void Elves given their dabbling with dangerous, forbidden magics.

[Ielenia]

The only thing shown in game is that the high elves operate mostly within Dalaran where they have had a long term presence and only occasionally do they venture into Stormwind. You cannot say for sure that the entire Alliance now views a group they will have had barely any interaction with in a positive light.

I guess you are ignoring forgetting about the high elf in one of the Island Expedition teams? And ignoring forgetting about the high elves who are part of the 7th Legion?

[elbleuet]

Dalaran declared neutrality the moment they reinvited the Horde back in during Legion. This is why Jaina left.

Khadgar leads the Council of Six, and in the Legion epilogue quests in Silithus declared he had fought beside Horde and Alliance and would not choose between them. Dalaran persisted in it's neutrality during the course of Legion where the number of Kirin Tor mages or Kirin Tor forces assisting the Alliance war effort was zero.

That doesn't change the fact the Council of 6 is led by an Alliance character, I'm sorry for you.

“Khadgar is an Alliance character willing to give quests to individual Horde heroes he trusts.” Dave Kosak.

Dalaran is an Alliance nation willing to work with the Horde for the greater good. That's why Aethas was not voted back to the Council of 6 and probably never will.

Face it. Dalaran will never fight for the Horde. But Dalaran can fight for the Alliance eventually.

The high elven exiles did not have a meaningful participation in the war. The only high elven exile we have evidence for who actually struck a blow for the Alliance was Frostfencer Seraphi.

That's already enough given High elves aren't a playable race.