1. #14201
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    No one really cares anymore. Take this to Blizzard's official forums. It's time to end this thread.
    Speaking of "nobody cares", you apparently do, since you're in this thread, reading the posts, and even posting in it.

    Don't like the mega-thread? Ignore it. Don't click on it. Don't read it. Don't post in it.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  2. #14202
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Speaking of "nobody cares", you apparently do, since you're in this thread, reading the posts, and even posting in it.

    Don't like the mega-thread? Ignore it. Don't click on it. Don't read it. Don't post in it.
    Remember the "don't waste energy"? Apply it I know you're smarter than that. I have read your posts and i know you are an intelligent person, don't go down with wasting your energy in answering stuff like this. (Not being your mom or trying to control your actions, just calling you for reason because i know you're better than that)

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    High Elves - Alleria skins for Void Elves



    1 - High elves with Alleria features would still be easier to distinct from blood elves.
    2 - Makes sense since new lore brought void elves, because the blood elves stopped being high elves on the new lore, should be separated. And they also renamed to Blood elves for a reason.
    Even void elves having blood elves in it (those blood elves were exiled from silvermoon for studying the void), let's forget that, the skins would just have high elves skins and eyes, and face with marks of Alleria because it's her whole theme.
    One simple thing shouldn't be stopping it from existing. Many things in wow sometimes skips others.
    Night elves didn't lost their looking to blood elves, they created new ones. But before playable, they looked like night elves (Like Sylvanas. https://i.redd.it/iqp4xsyzi3431.png)
    3 - Overall would be super satisfying.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2020-01-07 at 12:09 AM.

  3. #14203
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Let's pivot away from navel-gazing about the purpose and/or future of the thread and its inhabitants, and instead focus on the topic of the thread.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  4. #14204
    Field Marshal bdlovelace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    Blue eyes for Blood Elves makes more sense.
    Blizz gave Void Elves to the Alliance instead of a complete blood elf/high elf look alike, it seems because they don't want to have playable alliance high elves.
    i honestly expect more eye colors and farstrider/magister runic tattoos for the blood elf shadowlands updated customization. you can already make a blue eyed blood elf dk and the senior narrative designer confirmed blue eyed blood elves do exist. writings on the wall imo. its not like the SC will vanish from dalaran if it happens

    not sure what the point of asking for void elves to have blood elf skin tones is, seems as unlikely as blood elves getting the option for a void elf skin tone. the skin tones are the only thing that makes them distinct from each other
    Last edited by bdlovelace; 2020-01-07 at 12:33 AM.

  5. #14205
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Repeating the same things that were said for over 10 pages is enough, repeating it 100 pages is more than enough, it's stagnating.
    That happens because some people have focused on antagonizing the thread and abused the logos of the conversation to where there's five meanings for each little detail and an actual conversation can't be had.

    Obelisk Kai is the biggest example of someone to blame at for it, since he has bastardized the meaning of a lot of things here just to support his opinion, fueling others that are against like him and forcing others to defend their opinion to not get totally discredited by bullshit.

    You yourself said that, you don't want to care about someone else telling you in 140 words why you are utterly wrong, stupid and delusional. Neither do I since some time ago, I have given up on trying to counter arguments since it's useless when the contrary has their fingers in their ears and the mouth full of bullshit.

  6. #14206
    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post
    i honestly expect more eye colors and farstrider/magister runic tattoos for the blood elf shadowlands updated customization. you can already make a blue eyed blood elf dk and the senior narrative designer confirmed blue eyed blood elves do exist. writings on the wall imo. its not like the SC will vanish from dalaran if it happens

    not sure what the point of asking for void elves to have blood elf skin tones is, seems as unlikely as blood elves getting the option for a void elf skin tone. the skin tones are the only thing that makes them distinct from each other
    I also expect they give blood elf features to blood elves with their most iconic colors: Green, gold, red and black.
    And the tattoos/necklaces being quite the runes but differentiated on colors, for high elves(void elves skin)(alliance)=blue, white and blood elves(horde)=green, red, gold and black.

    Last edited by Shakana; 2020-01-07 at 01:46 AM.

  7. #14207
    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post
    i honestly expect more eye colors and farstrider/magister runic tattoos for the blood elf shadowlands updated customization. you can already make a blue eyed blood elf dk and the senior narrative designer confirmed blue eyed blood elves do exist. writings on the wall imo. its not like the SC will vanish from dalaran if it happens

    not sure what the point of asking for void elves to have blood elf skin tones is, seems as unlikely as blood elves getting the option for a void elf skin tone. the skin tones are the only thing that makes them distinct from each other
    Yeah, I can't stand blood elves personally but even I'm interested in swapping my DK over if they get some tattoos in SLs.

  8. #14208
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    For me, Horde Blood elves should have Sanlayn skins and Void elves should have Alleria High elf art skin as in the first page of this megathread.

    Dare to dismantle my opinion and i will forget this thread exists and move on. I'm allowed to have my opinions as everyone here can have theirs. Don't give me a speech of 140 words as to why i am wrong. I'm not interested. No one owns this thread or the high elves to think their opinion is the "go to with".
    For me, blood elves should have farstrider and runic tattoos with color selections of red, blue, gold and green and also have blue eye customizations along with features such as feathers, jewelry. Void elves should have darker skin options (almost black similar to Alleria's void form, with blue/purple tattoos and jewelry features.

    My opinion is that giving void elves "Alleria high elf art skin" is only making them closer to blood elves (ie. their parent race) and not offering a greater level of distinction to showcase their uniqueness. They are void elves. Just my opinion.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  9. #14209
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    SNIP
    So is Alleria. Yet you see her a normal High Elf talking with her sister in BfA at Lordaeron.

    Listen. I think that the game don't need more "trying to find things to not make it happen". That has been blocking blizzard's creativity in what they can do. Lore doesn't stop being lore because of simple tiny minimum things.

    I hate discussing this. I really do. I had enough in this same page. "but my opinion is better than yours and makes more sense". No it isn't. Don't answer me why you think yours is better and mine is trash. Just accept that is what I like. Even if that means not be even comment and read.

    There's also a few things I would like to clarify. Alleria ate a void Naaru while the void elves were attacked by a void lord and was weakening them and transforming them almost to point of exhaustion were they would at same point be transformed into void creature and no more who they were. Meanwhile there's champions and Alleria who intervened this to happen. Alleria saves them and she gets more elves to join the cause and touching void can not control you for just bad things.
    In that case she might teach them how to switch their void form to normal form while carrying the void in them. Overall make skins be something you can switch over between their true self and the void.
    Not all of the void elves are supposed to be the void elves they saved.

    And since TBC the high elves are not part of the blood elves. We all know around the globe that they are not the same anymore.
    Even blizzard knows when they tell you "want to play high elf? The horde waits for you" the creativity that is not just the "eyes color that is different" would be with the void elves. They would have such a different look regardless. They would also have Alleria tattoos all over her body. That makes me distinguish them from miles away.

    Blizzard has also themselves making the horde more interesting. While basically nothing new happens on alliance. Their creativity it's stopped for many things as they tend to focus on horde so much.
    I don't want to join more horde hype train for them. I want alliance to have their time to shine too and I don't even play alliance. So that is saying something.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2020-01-07 at 01:44 PM.

  10. #14210
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Let me add another statement to your list:

    "You think you do, but you don't.
    Which was overturned due to a massive campaign supported by hundreds of thousands of people and a wider movement in the MMO industry towards setting up older versions of beloved games for people to try them.

    That they changed their mind on a big issue in unique circumstances does not mean that on a completely unrelated topic without even a fraction of a fraction of the level of support that the classic movement achieved they are similarly fated to change their minds. It does not mean patience will win out, or that they will eventually crack. The cyclical debate over pathfinder every expansion is of far greater interest to the Warcraft community and they've not changed their minds on it and they show no signs of doing so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    As Pennem said, as long as there is no outright no on the high elf issue, hope will always be there.
    They have said no repeatedly. Void Elves are essentially 'no' in physical form, the replacement that precludes a distinct Alliance high elf option. Because they would never have created Void Elves had they any intention of adding high elves to the Alliance.

    The problem here is the refusal to accept the rejection. They've explained why they didn't add high elves, that they consider blood elves to be high elves and that adding a duplicate of a core horde race to the alliance unacceptably undermines the faction wall.

    They've explained why they added Void Elves, to give the alliance a variant of a high elf that had a unique flavour and aesthetic and which did not as a consequence undermine the division between the factions, the integrity of the Horde or the identity of the Blood Elves.

    The 'no' was contained in the in depth reasons they have provided for why they didn't add them. If you wanted a one word answer, 'no', that probably could have been provided but I doubt it would have been received as well as the lengthy and detailed explanation we got.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    1 - High elves with Alleria features would still be easier to distinct from blood elves.
    2 - Makes sense since new lore brought void elves, because the blood elves stopped being high elves on the new lore, should be separated. And they also renamed to Blood elves for a reason.
    Even void elves having blood elves in it (those blood elves were exiled from silvermoon for studying the void), let's forget that, the skins would just have high elves skins and eyes, and face with marks of Alleria because it's her whole theme.
    One simple thing shouldn't be stopping it from existing. Many things in wow sometimes skips others.
    Night elves didn't lost their looking to blood elves, they created new ones. But before playable, they looked like night elves (Like Sylvanas. https://i.redd.it/iqp4xsyzi3431.png)
    3 - Overall would be super satisfying.
    1 - 'Alleria features' as you describe it amount to one facial tattoo and blue eyes. Not only is that nowhere near enough to justify undermining the faction boundary but those features are likely to be included within the Blood Elf customization expansion. After all, Alleria's tattoo is commonly referred to as Farstrider type tattoos. The Farstriders are a Horde organisation.

    2 - Void Elves are void mutants, differentiated via a process that changed them irrevocably. The exiles got upset over how to deal with their common addiction and got kicked out for being troublemakers. There is no equivalence between the genuine differences of a Void Elf and a Blood/high elf, and the difference between a Blood Elf and an exile, as the difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf exile is merely an opinion and nothing more.

    As for the blood/high elves using reskinned night elf models in classic, what of it? They were placeholders until a proper model could be introduced for the race. And I say 'race' not 'races' because Blizzard developed one model for the thalassian race which they implemented in 2.0. And when they upgraded that model, all thalassians were upgraded. They didn't create a separate model for the exiles because that would have been ridiculous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    For me, Horde Blood elves should have Sanlayn skins and Void elves should have Alleria High elf art skin as in the first page of this megathread.

    Dare to dismantle my opinion and i will forget this thread exists and move on. I'm allowed to have my opinions as everyone here can have theirs. Don't give me a speech of 140 words as to why i am wrong. I'm not interested. No one owns this thread or the high elves to think their opinion is the "go to with".
    Horde Blood Elves are not San'layn and should not have San'layn skins.

    Alleria is unique in how she came by her powers and her form. Void Elves who are transformed the more common way, which doesn't involve eating the heart of a dark naaru, turn blue/purple.

  11. #14211
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Which was overturned due to a massive campaign supported by hundreds of thousands of people and a wider movement in the MMO industry towards setting up older versions of beloved games for people to try them.

    That they changed their mind on a big issue in unique circumstances does not mean that on a completely unrelated topic without even a fraction of a fraction of the level of support that the classic movement achieved they are similarly fated to change their minds. It does not mean patience will win out, or that they will eventually crack. The cyclical debate over pathfinder every expansion is of far greater interest to the Warcraft community and they've not changed their minds on it and they show no signs of doing so.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They have said no repeatedly. Void Elves are essentially 'no' in physical form, the replacement that precludes a distinct Alliance high elf option. Because they would never have created Void Elves had they any intention of adding high elves to the Alliance.

    The problem here is the refusal to accept the rejection. They've explained why they didn't add high elves, that they consider blood elves to be high elves and that adding a duplicate of a core horde race to the alliance unacceptably undermines the faction wall.

    They've explained why they added Void Elves, to give the alliance a variant of a high elf that had a unique flavour and aesthetic and which did not as a consequence undermine the division between the factions, the integrity of the Horde or the identity of the Blood Elves.

    The 'no' was contained in the in depth reasons they have provided for why they didn't add them. If you wanted a one word answer, 'no', that probably could have been provided but I doubt it would have been received as well as the lengthy and detailed explanation we got.

    - - - Updated - - -



    1 - 'Alleria features' as you describe it amount to one facial tattoo and blue eyes. Not only is that nowhere near enough to justify undermining the faction boundary but those features are likely to be included within the Blood Elf customization expansion. After all, Alleria's tattoo is commonly referred to as Farstrider type tattoos. The Farstriders are a Horde organisation.

    2 - Void Elves are void mutants, differentiated via a process that changed them irrevocably. The exiles got upset over how to deal with their common addiction and got kicked out for being troublemakers. There is no equivalence between the genuine differences of a Void Elf and a Blood/high elf, and the difference between a Blood Elf and an exile, as the difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf exile is merely an opinion and nothing more.

    As for the blood/high elves using reskinned night elf models in classic, what of it? They were placeholders until a proper model could be introduced for the race. And I say 'race' not 'races' because Blizzard developed one model for the thalassian race which they implemented in 2.0. And when they upgraded that model, all thalassians were upgraded. They didn't create a separate model for the exiles because that would have been ridiculous.
    I quit being here. No point. I will keep my thoughts to myself. Better than having someone always trying to make sense out of something they believe and dismantle mine that is not a far stretch. Have fun.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2020-01-07 at 02:25 PM.

  12. #14212
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    My opinion is that giving void elves "Alleria high elf art skin" is only making them closer to blood elves (ie. their parent race) and not offering a greater level of distinction to showcase their uniqueness. They are void elves. Just my opinion.
    The possibility exists, as Afrasiabi said the possibility exists, and it may occur when the Void Elves get their customization pass.

    However, it is exceptionally unlikely because of your well-described rationale here.

    The skin tone is not a flaw, it's a feature. It is the most obvious difference between a Void Elf and a Blood/high elf. In 2013 Ion suggested high elves as a potential sub-race once the sub-race system came in, and he did so off handedly. Once they sat down and worked through the pros and cons of that suggestion, they saw how it would undermine the faction wall and created Void Elves as a substitute.

    Once they sit down again to decide what to give Void Elves in THEIR customization pass, I suspect that making Void Elves look like Blood Elves will run into the same obstacles the initial high elf suggestion hit when they debated whether to add them and they simply won't do anything like giving high elf like skins to Void Elves.

    Instead, and I agree with you, they should lean into what a Void Elf is to move the two groups further apart, rather than trying to erase the difference between them. After all, it was preserving a measure of difference that led them to create Void Elves in the first place.

    For all the talk of 'ending this topic' recently, the Void Elf customization pass is the true ending. Once it comes and goes, there will be nothing more to be said as they will have made their intentions clear regarding how they want the Void Elves to be seen. Sometime in 2021 will be the moment of truth for the possibility. I consider the changes of a distinct exile allied race to be essentially zero at this point based upon everything they have ever said and done on this topic, so Void Elf customization is the last chance saloon in a way.

    But until then we have the fun of the Blood Elf customization pass to dissect, to see what has been given (and withheld) from Blood Elves.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-01-07 at 02:33 PM.

  13. #14213
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Which was overturned due to...
    Blah, blah, blah.

    I know your game: "developer words are law, blah-blah-blah, word of god, blah-blah-blah..." and then you rationalize and attempt to brush examples of how this "word of god" nonsense is nothing more than, well, nonsense under the rug.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  14. #14214
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Blah, blah, blah.

    I know your game: "developer words are law, blah-blah-blah, word of god, blah-blah-blah..." and then you rationalize and attempt to brush examples of how this "word of god" nonsense is nothing more than, well, nonsense under the rug.
    If this was your attempt to contest an evidence based approach with a watertight counter-argument I have to say I don't think it is going to get very far.

  15. #14215
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    If this was your attempt to contest...
    No, it was just me showing I got enough of your bad faith prattle: "Developer word is always law! It's the immutable word of god! Except when it isn't but it is!"
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  16. #14216
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, it was just me showing I got enough of your bad faith prattle: "Developer word is always law! It's the immutable word of god! Except when it isn't but it is!"
    I don't believe you demonstrated any such thing. You said you 'knew my game' and then simply declared word of god meaningless.

    Developer commentary is valid unless contradicted by future action or future word of god. The possibility they may change their minds, as they did with classic, is irrelevant to the veracity of the statement in the here and now.

    And the fact remains that classic occurred due to unique circumstances that have absolutely no bearing on this debate of this thread. What does it prove to you, that they can change their minds? That's been accepted since day one.

    The critical point is on that this topic they haven't changed their minds, in fact they have instead doubled down at every opportunity.

  17. #14217
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    Don't tell me what to do, kiddo.
    Can't take what you dish out?
    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    No one really cares anymore. Take this to Blizzard's official forums. It's time to end this thread.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I don't believe you demonstrated any such thing.
    I don't really care anymore. It's beyond clear you're not here to have an honest discussion. You seem to take some perverse kind of pleasure shooting down people's opinions, perhaps to feel superior, perhaps because you're bored, I don't know, but like I said: I don't care, anymore.

    You're here just to argue for argument's sake and to rile people up. Your signature is a big evidence of that.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  18. #14218
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't really care anymore. It's beyond clear you're not here to have an honest discussion. You seem to take some perverse kind of pleasure shooting down people's opinions, perhaps to feel superior, perhaps because you're bored, I don't know, but like I said: I don't care, anymore.

    You're here just to argue for argument's sake and to rile people up. Your signature is a big evidence of that.
    Shooting down people's opinions with which you disagree is the point of forums such as these. People's opinions are not sacrosanct, and if you are unable to defend those opinions then perhaps there wasn't much of a case there to begin with.

  19. #14219
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Shooting down people's opinions with which you disagree is the point of forums such as these. People's opinions are not sacrosanct,
    Except, like I said, you're not doing this to foster good discussion. Because, no matter how often people explain you how such arguments like "blood elf is high elf" and "go Horde" and "low population" and "word of god" don't work, you continue to repeat the same arguments, ad nauseum, like you don't even acknowledge what people have told you before.

    and if you are unable to defend those opinions then perhaps there wasn't much of a case there to begin with.
    It's hard to defend our positions and opinions when the other side just plugs their ears when we are presenting our case.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  20. #14220
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except, like I said, you're not doing this to foster good discussion. Because, no matter how often people explain you how such arguments like "blood elf is high elf" and "go Horde" and "low population" and "word of god" don't work, you continue to repeat the same arguments, ad nauseum, like you don't even acknowledge what people have told you before.
    Because word of god is not debunked 'by what people say'. Nothing a fan says is ever going to be as good as what a developer says on the topic. That is elementary. Wishing the game was different is not equivalent to demonstrating it is different.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's hard to defend our positions and opinions when the other side just plugs their ears when we are presenting our case.
    Your case has historically consisted of you inventing things, for example the idea that Alleria had the void elf transformation ability before she ate the heart of a dark naaru. Or the idea that blood elves can defect to the high elves to boost their numbers. Scenarios you have offered no evidence for and yet you treat as viable hypotheses.

    What you want is for Blizzard to change their minds. That's fine. But what you cannot argue is that the game world right now reflects your ideal position. It categorically does not. If you want them to change their minds, at least acknowledge they'd have to change things and not that they would come to understand that the game as it is supports your position.

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