1. #14401
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except we don't. "We don't have plans" does not equal "we are confirming it's not happening". For all we know, they do have something being developed, but don't want to say anything as they're unsure if it'll be ready or good enough. Blizzard has 'burned' itself in the past by promising things that did not happen. Path of Titans and Dance Studio, for example.
    Except, we're not getting 8.3.5. Anyone with a modicum of common sense can tell that. We don't need literal confirmation. Blizzard speaks about patch content WELL before it is released, 8.3 is a great example of that. They've said there are no plans for 8.3.5, which is a PR way of saying, "8.3.5 is confirmed not happening."

    You read between the lines only when it favors you, it seems.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You said "they don't have any content to put in a hypothetical 8.3.5" and I replied that this is not true.
    Do you know something we don't? Which content would that be? There's not been a single whisper about any new content for an 8.3.5, and a statement was even issued saying there aren't plans for one.

    You're simply being contrarian because... well, that's what you do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except that's not "neutrality". Want to pursue that line of argumentation? Fine. But use the correct words. The Thalassian elves would not be neutral if high elves were added to the Alliance, just like they did not become neutral when void elves were ass-pulled into the Alliance.
    As a Pandaren, you made a character, and had to choose your faction at a certain point. But regardless, the Alliance Pandaren are the same race as the Horde Pandaren. The only difference in what you suggest is that the Horde/Alliance faction choice would already be made for a playable High Elf. The races are still identical, therefore it would be the same race on both sides.

    That is literally the easiest thing to understand. How that's lost on you is baffling, and I'll assume you're just being contrarian again. Same race, separate factions? Neutral race.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again: "they would likely not have the 'arcane torrent' racial, due to their refusal to drain mana from living beings, therefore they would not have 'excess mana to discharge', which is the reason for that racial's existence." That is one cultural difference.

    Also: they would also likely not have 'enchanting' racial. Or the 'arcane resistance' and 'arcane acuity' racials. All due to them moving away from depending on magic." At no point I said "quitting cold turkey" or move away from magic completely. I simply said they would stop depending on magic. The high elves could have learned to not depend on something like the Sunwell due to their experience with the destruction of the Sunwell. That can be another cultural difference AND 'biological' too.
    All hypotheticals. Abilities alone don't comprise the race, and it's highly unreasonable to think there will be two Thalassian Elf models on the same faction. I mean, it's foolhardy to think that's a possible outcome. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Not at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Absolutely no one is saying that. No one. All we're saying is that they can change their minds, because people like you like to repeat, ad nauseum, "Blizzard has told you 'no', it's not going to happen".
    Changing one's mind about what's for dinner does not set a precedent for whether they'll change their mind to rob a bank. People change their minds all the time, and you're acting like there's a person who HASN'T changed their mind before. It is not a precedent, plain and simple. If they had given in to giving the Horde Ogres after over a decade of saying "No" that would be the precedent you're attempting to make. But that hasn't happened yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The point of this thread is that the developers' opinions are not some "sacred, immutable word-of-god holy scripture". The entire point of this thread is that we want the developers to change their minds. Which is why saying "the developers disagree with you" is meaningless.
    If I own a house, and in my opinion is that it looks better in blue and your opinion is that is looks better in red, but you're just passerby... I assure you, my opinion is more important than yours. It's mine, therefore my opinion and ideas concerning what's mine far outweigh yours. Same with Blizzard. Remember that Terms of Use you agree to and how it fully states your subscription doesn't come with any ownership of the game and its parts? The game and everything in it is Blizzard's. Therefore their opinion on Blizzard properties is more important than yours. This is made obvious by what's available in the game currently. Void Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again: wrong. All the Chronicles did was confirm that a big group of blood elves decided to stop Kael'Thas, not that he "effectively abdicated from the throne".
    Again just being contrarian. He failed to serve his people dutifully by aligning with Illidan and subsequently the Legion. He abdicated from the Throne when he decided to betray them. You're arguing a level of nuance that is so utterly minute, one can only assume you're just disagreeing for the sake of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't believe you. The only viable option is that you are lying. You could not tell them apart. At best, you guessed correctly. Their model and silhouette are the exact same.
    The hairstyles differentiate them. They are literally not the same thing, because the hairstyle is different and unique to Void Elves. Contrarian again, and presumptuous.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Wrong. You don't know the "level of differentiation" that is required, so stop acting like you do. Void elves have shown that two races can have the exact same body model and silhouette, even in opposing factions. Skin color, hair color, and hair style are also unlikely to be a requirement since those are quite often hidden by armor.
    For someone always claiming that there will be different tattoos, mounts, hairstyles, etc. You sure seem to have an idea of what level of differentiation it requires to support the High Elf situation. Yet, we don't? What makes you superior to knowing what's acceptable differentiation and what isn't? In fact, the level of differentiation required is apparent in Blood Elves and Void Elves. Purple skin, tentacles, and a huge infusion of forbidden magic to genetically alter the Thalassian Elves. Blizzard made the level of differentiation apparent. This is the case for all Allied Races. Lightforged, Highmountain, Void Elf, Kul'Tiran, Dark Iron...

    This is unfortunately not the case for High Elves. The amount of differentiation required would ruin the High Elven lore, which according to you, is the driving force behind this obsession. Ergo,
    no matter what Blizzard does, you would not be happy. Just like no one is happy with Void Elves, the obvious compromise that was made when it would have made the MOST sense to add High Elves. We're talking about when Alleria returns. What better time to reintroduce them? There won't be one.

    Voila, Void Elves.

    The cake has been baked, sadly, it's just not the flavor you wanted.

  2. #14402
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Goat View Post
    You read between the lines only when it favors you, it seems.
    I don't. Claiming as a fact there is confirmation, when there isn't, is just wrong.

    Do you know something we don't? Which content would that be?
    If you read my last few posts (y'know, to inform yourself?), instead of just grabbing my latest post, you'd know.

    The races are still identical, therefore it would be the same race on both sides.
    So what. The void elves are also identical to the blood elves, save for skin tone and styles of hair/facial hair, which are hidden by armor. They possess the exact same character model. And lore-wise, again, the void elves and blood elves are the same thing, since both possess the exact same lore, up to the point of Umbric's group being banished from Silvermoon. The point is: the cat is already out of the bag.

    All hypotheticals.
    Well, duh. When we're talking about possibilities for the future, we're talking about "hypotheticals".

    it's highly unreasonable to think there will be two Thalassian Elf models on the same faction.
    You say that while we have lightforged draenei and draenei in the same faction... highmountain tauren and tauren in the same faction...

    Changing one's mind about what's for dinner does not set a precedent for whether they'll change their mind to rob a bank.
    Nowhere near the same thing. In your example, the latter is a crime. Your 'reductio ad absurdum' failed.

    If I own a house, and in my opinion is that it looks better in blue and your opinion is that is looks better in red, but you're just passerby...
    Except I'm not a passerby. I 'live' in that 'house' as well, paying rent.

    Again just being contrarian. He failed to serve his people dutifully by aligning with Illidan and subsequently the Legion. He abdicated from the Throne when he decided to betray them. You're arguing a level of nuance that is so utterly minute, one can only assume you're just disagreeing for the sake of it.
    Aligning with Illidan is what 'saved' the blood elves, since Illidan is the one that taught 'mana vampirism' to the blood elves, and it was Illidan that supplied the fel crystals that adorned and powered Silvermoon. Kael'Thas, while aligned with Illidan, also captured and sent M'uru to the blood elves to experiment and feed on. And even after it became public that Kael'Thas sided with the Burning Legion, blood elves still flocked to his side.

    The hairstyles differentiate them. They are literally not the same thing, because the hairstyle is different and unique to Void Elves. Contrarian again, and presumptuous.
    You accuse me of sticking too much to details, and yet here you do the same. Hairstyles are meaningless since the overwhelming majority of the helms in the game hide your hair style.

    For someone always claiming that there will be different tattoos, mounts, hairstyles, etc. You sure seem to have an idea of what level of differentiation it requires to support the High Elf situation.
    That's the level of physical differentiation between blood elves and void elves: color and hair styles.

    Purple skin, tentacles, and a huge infusion of forbidden magic to genetically alter the Thalassian Elves.
    Saying "tentacles" is meaningless. It's all just a glow effect on a tendril of hair. It doesn't move or behave in any way different than hair, and again, hidden by helm, unlike the male draenei's tentacles. THOSE are not hidden by helm. Or a female draenei's horns, or a blood elf's ears.

    Last, but not least, if I can give you one advice: tone down on the underlines and bold. Those are used to give emphasis to certain words or passages within a paragraph. But if you underline or bolden the entire paragraph, it loses its intended effect and just looks... obnoxious, as if you're just shouting everything. I remember Syndrome's words (from the movie The Incredibles): "if everyone is special, then no one is special."
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #14403
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Dark Ranger. AFAIK both Blood Elves and Night Elves are missing their red eyes now.
    Ah! Yeah, I noticed that messing around with them in the wowhead Dressing Room pre-patch. I had assumed they would be fixed or reverted to the usual look when 8.3 goes live.

    Makes me hopeful that they're putting Dark Rangers in as a skin option for blood elves/Forsaken.

    I know Kai and others have voiced opposition to the idea of making undead elves a skin option. But I don't think it's too much more absurd than switching from a Blackrock to a Warsong on a whim with how drastically different those two clans look.

  4. #14404
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    I like how one has green eyes and the other one has blue. But both are alliance soldiers.
    Not green, teal.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  5. #14405
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    Ah! Yeah, I noticed that messing around with them in the wowhead Dressing Room pre-patch. I had assumed they would be fixed or reverted to the usual look when 8.3 goes live.

    Makes me hopeful that they're putting Dark Rangers in as a skin option for blood elves/Forsaken.

    I know Kai and others have voiced opposition to the idea of making undead elves a skin option. But I don't think it's too much more absurd than switching from a Blackrock to a Warsong on a whim with how drastically different those two clans look.
    Honestly? Same, that we didn't get the easy implementing that HE NPC skin eyes got makes me think they may want to do something better with them? And I hope they wouldn't do that just to make the NPC's look better, but because they want to bring it up to standards of a playable option.

    Red eyes for BE's is right there on my list of wishes for customization if we don't get San'layn or Venthir lol

  6. #14406
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Honestly? Same, that we didn't get the easy implementing that HE NPC skin eyes got makes me think they may want to do something better with them? And I hope they wouldn't do that just to make the NPC's look better, but because they want to bring it up to standards of a playable option.

    Red eyes for BE's is right there on my list of wishes for customization if we don't get San'layn or Venthir lol
    I'll be perfectly content with some Farstrider tattoos but I'd love to get "dark rangers", blue eyes and full beards!

  7. #14407
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    I'll be perfectly content with some Farstrider tattoos but I'd love to get "dark rangers", blue eyes and full beards!
    I'd be in for all of them, but yeah, If I get red eyes I really can live without the rest!

  8. #14408
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Not green, teal.
    Yes, teal!

  9. #14409
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't. Claiming as a fact there is confirmation, when there isn't, is just wrong.
    "We have no plans for 8.3.5." Is all the confirmation I need. You're probably the only person that thinks there's even a possibility of it. You're splitting hairs just to be contrarian. Stating they have no plans is all that needs to be said. Do you really need it spelled out for you plainly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    If you read my last few posts (y'know, to inform yourself?), instead of just grabbing my latest post, you'd know.
    I read your suggested content. I'm asking if you know of something (you know, that's CONFIRMED) that we don't. Because them saying "We have no plans" is stronger than your theoretical content they could push. Content, of which, there has been no mention. Patches don't happen overnight, and there would be plenty of forewarning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what. The void elves are also identical to the blood elves, save for skin tone and styles of hair/facial hair, which are hidden by armor. They possess the exact same character model. And lore-wise, again, the void elves and blood elves are the same thing, since both possess the exact same lore, up to the point of Umbric's group being banished from Silvermoon. The point is: the cat is already out of the bag.
    Thanks for proving my point. I think you should look up identical. It clearly means something other than what you think it means. You often confuse what "exactly" means, so I think that's the root problem here.

    Void Elves undergo a transformative infusion of Void Magic. Would you be open to High Elves undergoing a similar process to sate your desire? I think I know the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Well, duh. When we're talking about possibilities for the future, we're talking about "hypotheticals".
    Coming from someone who frequently misplaces their opinion for objective fact, it's hard to tell with you. So I wanted to remind you that what you're saying isn't real, and probably never will be given the actual facts at hand. You know, those objective, irrefutable, unarguable facts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You say that while we have lightforged draenei and draenei in the same faction... highmountain tauren and tauren in the same faction...
    Fair point, but the race you're seeking already exists on the Horde save for their political and magical differences. They are the same people. A human that smokes and a human that doesn't smoke are both still humans. Because they staved off the magic cravings doesn't make them any less of the Elves that are on the Horde side, the Blood Elves, in this short of a time frame. We would need thousands upon thousands of years for the absence of magic to affect a genetic difference in Elves, OR, a Void Elf type scenario where are transformed suddenly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Nowhere near the same thing. In your example, the latter is a crime. Your 'reductio ad absurdum' failed.
    It didn't fail. I could use any vastly different topics to support my point. You're claiming that because they reverted their decision on Classic that they are likely to revert their decision on High Elves. That is, after all, the point you're trying to make. Thanks for proving me correct once again. Those decisions are nowhere near the same thing. If anything failed, your comprehension did.

    If you think reverting the Classic: WoW decision is even REMOTELY akin to giving the same race to two different factions, I've grossly overestimated your reasoning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except I'm not a passerby. I 'live' in that 'house' as well, paying rent.
    And very clearly in the rental agreement, they told you you don't own shit. Therefore rendering your opinion secondary to theirs. It's quite clear in the Terms of Use. It'd help to read it before replying foolishly again. Your "rent" affords you server access, not an opinion on developmental decisions. Blizzard ain't Burger King.

    If you've ever paid rent in a place before, you should be well aware that permanent changes are up to the landlord's opinion, not yours. You want to paint the walls blue? You need your landlord's approval. Your opinion is secondary to the owner's. This is a simple concept.

    Your comparison utterly fails, and lends to my statement that your opinion is secondary to the owners'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Aligning with Illidan is what 'saved' the blood elves, since Illidan is the one that taught 'mana vampirism' to the blood elves, and it was Illidan that supplied the fel crystals that adorned and powered Silvermoon. Kael'Thas, while aligned with Illidan, also captured and sent M'uru to the blood elves to experiment and feed on. And even after it became public that Kael'Thas sided with the Burning Legion, blood elves still flocked to his side.
    Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Kael'thas abdicated his throne the moment he failed his duty to the Quel'thalas tradition. 1 follower or a million doesn't mean he didn't abdicate it. Abdication is not contingent on if people remained loyal to him. He failed his duty as King of Quel'thalas after Anasterian died.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You accuse me of sticking too much to details, and yet here you do the same. Hairstyles are meaningless since the overwhelming majority of the helms in the game hide your hair style.
    Irrelevant. Not every player hides their helmet. This is your subjective opinion, once again, trying to override the objective fact that the silhouettes you showed us were discernible by the unique hairstyle. I don't know what your problem is here. You chose the props to play with, and you're upset that we got it right.

    Hairstyles are meaningless? Says who? You? Did you collect data to make this assertion or are you just speaking for millions of people at once? I'm pretty sure if it was meaningless, they wouldn't have barbers and customization options that literally MILLIONS of people clamor for. Give me a break, dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That's the level of physical differentiation between blood elves and void elves: color and hair styles.
    Exactly, which is not present in the case of Blood Elves and High Elves. They are the same race of people, just like a blue eyed human Democrat is the same as a green eyes human Republican. Their political beliefs and vices do not suddenly make them a different race. Tattoos and different mounts, again, would not make them a different race. You drive a Honda, I drive a Toyota. We're both still humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Saying "tentacles" is meaningless. It's all just a glow effect on a tendril of hair. It doesn't move or behave in any way different than hair, and again, hidden by helm, unlike the male draenei's tentacles. THOSE are not hidden by helm. Or a female draenei's horns, or a blood elf's ears.
    But it's not meaningless. The tentacles are there, aren't they? Irrefutably, they are, and not every player uses the Hide Helmet feature. Look how many times you've had to claim that features can be hidden by armor/helmet to justify your stance, as if that's acceptable. And I'm the one arguing in bad faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Last, but not least, if I can give you one advice: tone down on the underlines and bold. Those are used to give emphasis to certain words or passages within a paragraph. But if you underline or bolden the entire paragraph, it loses its intended effect and just looks... obnoxious, as if you're just shouting everything. I remember Syndrome's words (from the movie The Incredibles): "if everyone is special, then no one is special."
    I honestly did that a bit tongue in cheek towards you. You bold and underline things, in my opinion, unnecessarily. Forgive my sarcasm as it really has no place here.
    Last edited by Black Goat; 2020-01-16 at 10:44 PM.

  10. #14410
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Goat View Post
    "We have no plans for 8.3.5." Is all the confirmation I need.
    Good on you, but, again, it's not a 'confirmation it's not happening'.

    I read your suggested content. I'm asking if you know of something (you know, that's CONFIRMED) that we don't. Because them saying "We have no plans" is stronger than your theoretical content they could push. Content, of which, there has been no mention. Patches don't happen overnight, and there would be plenty of forewarning.
    I never claimed that I knew what "they are doing for 8.3.5". Kai made a statement that there is "no content for a hypothetical .5 patch", and I simply pointed out that there can be. Loyalists helping Sylvanas get to Icecrown, is another example.

    Thanks for proving my point. I think you should look up identical. It clearly means something other than what you think it means. You often confuse what "exactly" means, so I think that's the root problem here.
    There is no confusion.

    Void Elves undergo a transformative infusion of Void Magic. Would you be open to High Elves undergoing a similar process to sate your desire? I think I know the answer.
    Simply asking the question makes it clear you likely don't.

    Coming from someone who frequently misplaces their opinion for objective fact, it's hard to tell with you. So I wanted to remind you that what you're saying isn't real, and probably never will be given the actual facts at hand. You know, those objective, irrefutable, unarguable facts.
    You accuse me of "mistaking opinion for facts", and yet you do the exact same thing you accuse me of.

    Fair point, but the race you're seeking already exists on the Horde save for their political and magical differences. They are the same people. A human that smokes and a human that doesn't smoke are both still humans. Because they staved off the magic cravings doesn't make them any less of the Elves that are on the Horde side, the Blood Elves, in this short of a time frame. We would need thousands upon thousands of years for the absence of magic to affect a genetic difference in Elves, OR, a Void Elf type scenario where are transformed suddenly.
    "Race" is meaningless, since our characters are not a representative of the "whole "race"", just from one group within said race. High elves may be strikingly similar, physically-speaking, to the blood elves, but they're no longer the same group.

    It didn't fail.
    It did fail, because you basically equated "adding high elves to the Alliance" to "committing a crime lawfully punishable by incarceration".

    You're claiming that because they reverted their decision on Classic that they are likely to revert their decision on High Elves. That is, after all, the point you're trying to make.
    I go back to what I wrote earlier: you don't know what you're talking about. My argument was never that they "are likely to revert their decision", only that it is possible that they change their minds. A counter to the anti-high-elf claim that "Blizzard already said it's not happening".


    And very clearly in the rental agreement, they told you you don't own shit. Therefore rendering your opinion secondary to theirs. It's quite clear in the Terms of Use. It'd help to read it before replying foolishly again. Your "rent" affords you server access, not an opinion on developmental decisions. Blizzard ain't Burger King.

    If you've ever paid rent in a place before, you should be well aware that permanent changes are up to the landlord's opinion, not yours. You want to paint the walls blue? You need your landlord's approval. Your opinion is secondary to the owner's. This is a simple concept.

    Your comparison utterly fails, and lends to my statement that your opinion is secondary to the owners'.
    The landlord does not get to dictate how I decorate the room I'm renting. The landlord cannot dictate which color my walls should be painted.

    Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Kael'thas abdicated his throne the moment he failed his duty to the Quel'thalas tradition.
    By that reasoning, all blood elves abdicated all their rights to Silvermoon when they took to "mana vampirism" since that went against "Quel'thalas tradition."

    Abdication is not contingent on if people remained loyal to him.
    It's not contingent on people leaving him, either.

    Irrelevant. Not every player hides their helmet. This is your subjective opinion, once again, trying to override the objective fact that the silhouettes you showed us were discernible by the unique hairstyle. I don't know what your problem is here. You chose the props to play with, and you're upset that we got it right.
    You do know you're backing up all my claims, here, by admitting that hair style is sufficient differentiation?

    But it's not meaningless. The tentacles are there, aren't they? Irrefutably, they are, and not every player uses the Hide Helmet feature. Look how many times you've had to claim that features can be hidden by armor/helmet to justify your stance, as if that's acceptable. And I'm the one arguing in bad faith?
    Those "tentacles" on the void elves' hair is no more "differentiating" than hair color. And I never wrote, in my post, that you're arguing "in bad faith".
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2020-01-17 at 02:40 AM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  11. #14411
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Yes, teal!
    Teal is high elf colour.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  12. #14412
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The landlord does not get to dictate how I decorate the room I'm renting. The landlord cannot dictate which color my walls should be painted.
    The rental agreement dictates what you can and can't do with the house/ place you're renting. And yes, they can dictate how you can or cannot decorate the room you're renting and what color the walls need to be. They can't dictate specifically what you can and can't decorate with, but they can say "no holes in the wall" and stuff like that which can affect what you can or can't put on the wall. If they want the walls all brown, then when you move out they have to be brown and if they're not, you get to pay to have them painted brown and possibly a hefty breach of lease charge if there's one in the lease.

    In this case, the rental agreement says you are renting THIS specific house and has provided you with plenty of options on how you can decorate it. You don't get to dictate ANYTHING, they have given you choices that you can freely do whatever you want with, based on the rules they've laid out.

  13. #14413
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    I'd be in for all of them, but yeah, If I get red eyes I really can live without the rest!
    I would like Red eyes, not because of Dark Rangers, but mostly because BLOOD elves :P

    Also with the use of Anima, it could be explained (ah, i still want Sanlayn in the Horde, they could introduce Blood Magic to the Blood Elves)

  14. #14414
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    But, yeah, I would probably concur with you both that if blue eyes are going to be an option for blood elves in 9.0, they're likely going to be separate from the current NPC model.

    I'd be interested to see, should blood elves guy blue, whether they'll bother converting the high elf NPCs to the new look or if they'll just leave them as is. I think that'd be telling.
    Oh they will definitely be separate. Unhooking eye colour from the skins is one of the most fundamental changes they can make to character customization and one that is long, long overdue and will in fact be on every race in the game. I hope (allied races are up in the air).

    As for the particular case of blue eyes on Blood Elves, everyone will spin the results a different way. Should they be granted, as I think they should, then that is an extra customization option for Blood Elves. If they are not granted, pro High Elf commentators will argue they are being 'reserved' for the exiles.

    But we will not know until character customization is introduced in the Shadowlands alpha, so we are several months away from getting the information required to make an informed analysis.

  15. #14415
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Oh they will definitely be separate. Unhooking eye colour from the skins is one of the most fundamental changes they can make to character customization and one that is long, long overdue and will in fact be on every race in the game. I hope (allied races are up in the air).

    As for the particular case of blue eyes on Blood Elves, everyone will spin the results a different way. Should they be granted, as I think they should, then that is an extra customization option for Blood Elves. If they are not granted, pro High Elf commentators will argue they are being 'reserved' for the exiles.

    But we will not know until character customization is introduced in the Shadowlands alpha, so we are several months away from getting the information required to make an informed analysis.

    Yes, it is quite possible that blizzard makes the mistake of giving the color of blue eyes as a personalization option to the blood elves, they will then have overlooked the identity of the factions by not respecting the " faction haunts. "
    It will give even more possibilities for the customization options of the void elves, the blue eyes option but also the green eyes option, it is normal at the same time, they were former blood elves.

  16. #14416
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Oh they will definitely be separate. Unhooking eye colour from the skins is one of the most fundamental changes they can make to character customization and one that is long, long overdue and will in fact be on every race in the game. I hope (allied races are up in the air).

    As for the particular case of blue eyes on Blood Elves, everyone will spin the results a different way. Should they be granted, as I think they should, then that is an extra customization option for Blood Elves. If they are not granted, pro High Elf commentators will argue they are being 'reserved' for the exiles.

    But we will not know until character customization is introduced in the Shadowlands alpha, so we are several months away from getting the information required to make an informed analysis.
    Eye colour options will almost certainly be available and varied for the "normal" eyed races (humans, gnomes, orcs, dwarves etc) but I'm a little worried the likes of blood elves might be considerably more limited and customisation time might be invested in other areas (body markings, hair etc).

    I have a sinking feeling it might be the current two colours but no longer limited by face option. Just because of how much work they seem to be doing already on tweaking magical eye glows.

    I'd love for there to be an eye colour option for every form of magic a Thalassian might use though. Pyromancy orange, arcane purple, a retro white/blue for non-magic users and many others. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

    And yeah, if blood elves don't get blue, I think it will almost certainly fuel the "high elf of the gaps" thinking.

  17. #14417
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    I would like Red eyes, not because of Dark Rangers, but mostly because BLOOD elves :P

    Also with the use of Anima, it could be explained (ah, i still want Sanlayn in the Horde, they could introduce Blood Magic to the Blood Elves)
    I'd be on for that. We haven't seen blood mage give belves red eyes so far, but I'm into it.

  18. #14418
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    Yes, it is quite possible that blizzard makes the mistake of giving the color of blue eyes as a personalization option to the blood elves, they will then have overlooked the identity of the factions by not respecting the " faction haunts. "
    It will give even more possibilities for the customization options of the void elves, the blue eyes option but also the green eyes option, it is normal at the same time, they were former blood elves.
    Blue eyes are not a flag colour, they are a by-product of thalassian biology. Glowing green eyes has represented being in the presence of fel ambience. Golden eyes has represented a connection with the holy aspect of the sunwell. Blue eyes would similarly reflect being in the presence of an arcane ambience or a stronger connection to the arcane aspect of the Sunwell.

    Blue eyes therefore should not be denied to Blood Elf players for the sake of a group of unplayable NPCs, as actual players are more important of consideration than npcs.

    Given that the Void Elves have been entirely transformed by the void, it is hard to see how they could have green eyes. As proven by Xhul'horac in Hellfire Citadel, shadow and fel energies do not co-mingle (unlike arcane and holy which can safely co-mingle with each other). Thus part of the process of the conversion of the former blood/high elves into Void Elves will likely have been the purging of all remaining traces of their taint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    Eye colour options will almost certainly be available and varied for the "normal" eyed races (humans, gnomes, orcs, dwarves etc) but I'm a little worried the likes of blood elves might be considerably more limited and customisation time might be invested in other areas (body markings, hair etc).

    I have a sinking feeling it might be the current two colours but no longer limited by face option. Just because of how much work they seem to be doing already on tweaking magical eye glows.

    I'd love for there to be an eye colour option for every form of magic a Thalassian might use though. Pyromancy orange, arcane purple, a retro white/blue for non-magic users and many others. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

    And yeah, if blood elves don't get blue, I think it will almost certainly fuel the "high elf of the gaps" thinking.
    Races with non glowing eyes will get the standard, blue, brown, green, gray.

    Some races do not have human range eye colours and will have extra options, for example Orcs will have red and hopefully other shades.

    In regards to the Blood Elves, I hope that we will get green, gold and blue and several different shades of each. We shall see how far they go once the alpha begins and they introduce the customization options as the builds are updated.

  19. #14419
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    Eye colour options will almost certainly be available and varied for the "normal" eyed races (humans, gnomes, orcs, dwarves etc) but I'm a little worried the likes of blood elves might be considerably more limited and customisation time might be invested in other areas (body markings, hair etc).

    I have a sinking feeling it might be the current two colours but no longer limited by face option. Just because of how much work they seem to be doing already on tweaking magical eye glows.
    I think actually with the precedent the other increased customizations have set, you're more likely to get blue eyes on Blood Elves.

    Simply because Blizzard has introduced these customizations with no intent to explain them in game, this isn't like Allied Races where a story/lore explanation is given as to why a particular group joins the Alliance or Horde.

    This is straight up just "here's some skins, because we finally have the technology/resources to do it!" hence the unexplainable options of such things as Dark Trolls (where a literal single one in existence didn't stop this option), Blood Trolls apparently (actual troll lunatics who we are killing right now), Dark skin rumored on Blood Elves (destroys the argument a couple years earlier about "these are your fair skin elves"), Dark skin on Dwarves, Muddy colors on all Forsaken, Sand Trolls (who have been our enemies), etc etc.

    None of those have any feasible explanations, and frankly the playerbase at large doesn't care. Because the playerbase at large just want more customization regardless. With these new customizations, and there being no in-universe explanation needed as to why we have them, it becomes apparent that simply asking for what you'd like for your characters from the developers is all that matters.

    And I just want to put a disclaimer at the bottom that I'm fine with every single option as I want WoW's character customization to become really free-form in the sense that of ALL the options given within the game you should be able to make the exact kind of character you wish to play for your own enjoyment (similar to goal of what Ion said with these customizations). I'm merely pointing out that this situation isn't like Allied Races where an in-universe explanation was necessary for the option to be available. And that the playerbase at large understands this as well and don't give a shit (because really who does other than gatekeepers) judging from we haven't seen very many, if any, complaining about the lore/story inconsistencies of the increased customization options.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What I can already see happening if Blood Elves get Blue eyes is the inevitable petty people against High Elves exclaiming, "hah see, High Elves are back with Blood Elves" "I'm changing to blue eyes as I've been a High Elf all along!" and all that sort of behavior.

    Similar to how when the PTR showed a changing of eye glow we had a few posters come in here and tease, "look now we have High Elves! LOL" like bozos.

  20. #14420
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Blue eyes are not a flag colour, they are a by-product of thalassian biology. Glowing green eyes has represented being in the presence of fel ambience. Golden eyes has represented a connection with the holy aspect of the sunwell. Blue eyes would similarly reflect being in the presence of an arcane ambience or a stronger connection to the arcane aspect of the Sunwell.

    Blue eyes therefore should not be denied to Blood Elf players for the sake of a group of unplayable NPCs, as actual players are more important of consideration than npcs.

    Given that the Void Elves have been entirely transformed by the void, it is hard to see how they could have green eyes. As proven by Xhul'horac in Hellfire Citadel, shadow and fel energies do not co-mingle (unlike arcane and holy which can safely co-mingle with each other). Thus part of the process of the conversion of the former blood/high elves into Void Elves will likely have been the purging of all remaining traces of their taint.
    There are two races of playable Thalassian elves, one in each faction, it would be more judicious to propose as customization options for these two parts, the "Thalassian variants" of NPC non-playable from their respective faction,
    You can not find ?

    As you say, "the real players are more important than the NPCs" and especially the players of the alliance at the moment, given the disgusting allied races they have received ...

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