Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

Nice headcanon.

8ft tall, different body and muscular structure, different adaptions on the environment, seems like another breed to me, its not like pitbulls and puddles are different race of dog, but sure as hell they are not the same breed of dog.

And the same could be done for high elves.

it was already done, its called void elves

it could be done again? unlikely, and we have to deal with what route use, generations of change(like nighborne and kul'tiran) isn't applied since the spawn of time is so little and half-elves are not good enough, only the magic change route is viable

But its where things get tricky, the "pro" HE people will not be ok with anything who is not a HE they idealize(the Same as the blood elves but better and prettier, white, blonde all the package) thats why they and the opposition will never going to be in accord

And no one in the Alliance has the high elf thematic.

yes, because the thematic is on the horde, its like getting the voodoo shaman troll thematic and putting a troll race in the alliance, or getting human paladins and putting in the Horde, isn't going to work, they need a whole different thematic to stand on their own, rangers, wizards and paladins/priests is out of question since its already on blood elves, druid high elves? thats is not lore friendly and would steal the night elf thematic.

So what? Nightborne gave the Horde the night elf model, and void elf gave the Alliance the blood elf model.

with altered models and different theme, HE and BE have the same model and the same theme, things will not work without the void elf treatment.

If they could have done HE they would have done it, but instead they did VE, why? different thematic and different model, the only way to work around

This thing about "faction exclusivity" was mortally wounded with the pandaren, and then was put out of its misery with allied races.

there is nothing "mortally wounded" people don't even care about then and they din't even appear in screen to be a problem, another big problem of "neutral races" , they stay in the limbo forever, and to make HE neutral, another alliance race would be delivered to the horde, and no one want that anymore.

Once again i say, Half-elves would solve all the problems, but people are stubborn as a mule and would consider defeat in their holy crusade to no get exactly what they want besides the Odds

They could be everything they want for, a different yet similar model, blonde, white, blue eyes, they would be stronger and a bit more muscular( who will make sense because the human blood and not because push-ups, an actual lore and logic reason,) different face(you know like the drust mixing with the humans of kul'tiras...) a different culture and thematic mixing human and elf heritage, they would have a goal in their lives, the actual continuation of the Alliance high elves

But no, only the "true and pure High elf that we idealize" , this tug of war will never end, no side will give up and this will never be over

Except, they are.

its clearly as water they are not "just" humans

[Ielenia]

8ft tall, different body and muscular structure, different adaptions on the environment, seems like another breed to me, its not like pitbulls and puddles are different race of dog, but sure as hell they are not the same breed of dog.

Still same humans, considering that races aren't of static height. There is height variation.

it was already done, its called void elves

it could be done again? unlikely, and we have to deal with what route use, generations of change(like nighborne and kul'tiran) isn't applied since the spawn of time is so little and half-elves are not good enough, only the magic change route is viable

Sure, if you invent restrictions out of your arse and lack imagination (or desire to apply such imagination). We don't need "magic change" and we don't need to make the high elves as different from blood elves as Kul'Tiras humans are from Stormwind humans.

But its where things get tricky, the "pro" HE people will not be ok with anything who is not a HE they idealize(the Same as the blood elves but better and prettier, white, blonde all the package) thats why they and the opposition will never going to be in accord

The fact you repeat this, over and over, show how little you care about understanding what the other side wants and just wants to misrepresent with a strawman of your own for yourself to beat up.

yes, because the thematic is on the horde, its like getting the voodoo shaman troll thematic and putting a troll race in the alliance,

Except it's not, since there's no one in the Alliance that uses voodoo. But there are high elves in the Alliance since day 1.

with altered models

Alterations that are meaningless in the big picture, as explained numerous times how those "alterations" are never noticed before the outline or health bar color tells you which faction (and therefore which race) they are.

HE and BE have the same model and the same theme, things will not work without the void elf treatment.

Yes, they can. And the HE theme can even be adjusted to have them rely less on magic than the blood elves.

If they could have done HE they would have done it, but instead they did VE, why? different thematic and different model, the only way to work around

You don't know why, but of course you'll assert your opinion as fact.

there is nothing "mortally wounded" people don't even care about then and they din't even appear in screen to be a problem,

Funny. I thought "blurring faction lines" was a supposed concern of the anti-high-elf group?

another big problem of "neutral races"

The Thalassian elves would not become "neutral" by any stretch of the imagination if high elves became playable for the Alliance.

its clearly as water they are not "just" humans

Except, they are.

[Syegfryed]

Still same humans, considering that races aren't of static height. There is height variation.

its not "the same humans", i don't know how to make it more clear than the dog exaple.

Sure, if you invent restrictions out of your arse and lack imagination (or desire to apply such imagination)

i think i got pretty better ideas, i see more "lack of imagination" from the pro people, wanting just different hairs, and their forceful restrictions only wanting the ideal HE to be possible

once i read a suggestion of "storm elves" elves of the silver covenant changed by the magic of Raden from Jaina and all, the suggestion die out quickly, because of the same reason half-elves are not more popular, "its not high elves, it will be considered defeat to us!!1!"

We don't need "magic change" and we don't need to make the high elves as different from blood elves as Kul'Tiras humans are from Stormwind humans.

Of course we need, who said we doesn't? they need to be different to bypass the faction barrier, just like void elves and nightborne

hell, even the kul'tirans and humans are a lot different with logical reasons for, why HE should not be different when all the allied races are?

The fact you repeat this, over and over, show how little you care about understanding what the other side wants and just wants to misrepresent with a strawman of your own for yourself to beat up.

the same could be said from you, you just keep saying they don't need to change, they don't to be different, despite the fact every single allied race ARE DIFFERENT, what are your records of not? what are your base from this argument? nothing at all

Except it's not, since there's no one in the Alliance that uses voodoo. But there are high elves in the Alliance since day 1.

their are not playable and not relevant, thus, they doesn't matter

Alterations that are meaningless in the big picture,

they are not meaningless, don't pretend, if they were people would not be here asking the same elf without alterations

as explained numerous times how those "alterations" are never noticed before the outline or health bar color tells you which faction (and therefore which race) they are.

if this was the case people would not be with their crusade for high elves, the alterations are meaningful and are there to differentiate their raw models and thematic

Yes, they can.

if it could, what it was not done? if HE could work standalone, why they had to change their color and thematic to bypass the faction barrier so it didn't blur the factions and every elf have their own unique thing?

And the HE theme can even be adjusted to have them rely less on magic than the blood elves.

farstriders? already a blood elf thing, more nature elves? night elves already got the spot, who will be rely less on magic? the silver covenant who peple rpeach more about

You don't know why, but of course you'll assert your opinion as fact.

Seems prettyy straightfoward to me

1) alliance ask for HE since days of old
2) they said they will think about with subraces
3) allied race come to give players the subraces they wanted
4) instead of high elves they got void elves

A reason should exist, and im not delusional to think they were just saving HE for money later

Funny. I thought "blurring faction lines" was a supposed concern of the anti-high-elf group?

Exactly, pandaren would do that, thaats why they don't appear and don't get lore since mop, a failure of race

The Thalassian elves would not become "neutral" by any stretch of the imagination if high elves became playable for the Alliance.

they would be just like pandaren

Except, they are.

again, the differences are there that you can't ignore


Like i said, Half-elves, better route, Elves changed by magic, not ideal but an option(who i doubt because void elves are a thing, different hairstyles is jus never going to happen

[Aldefard Aelfwine]

Easy, it was an experiment they decided to try to see if it worked. Here's the rub though, they are pretty clear that it didn't work. Oh sure, Pandaren themselves are a fine race, but the cost to faction diversity by making them neutral was simply too great. And Pandaren had everything going for them, a race both sides wanted but neither had meaning they would join both sides at the same time, a story emphasising balance and their neutrality. Still wasn't worth it. They've not a done neutral race since. They likely never will again as the real benefits of making a neutral race, only a single pair of levelling zones and just two models to make rather than four zones and four models, is obviated by Allied races allowing model reuse and skipping the first levelling zones entirely.

Pandaren neutrality is not a precedent. It was a mistake. And the thing about mistakes is that once you make it, you can avoid making that same mistake a second time.

Did Blizzard officially say that they recognize this as a mistake? If so, can you tell me where it was said?

[Obelisk Kai]

Did Blizzard officially say that they recognize this as a mistake? If so, can you tell me where it was said?

Three things demonstrate their belief that it was a mistake.

Firstly, the response in 2013 from then lead developer Greg 'Ghostcrawler' Street when asked how he felt about Pandaren neutrality.

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...65802590384129

To quote it here, "How do you feel having Pandarian shared between both factions has worked out? Would you do the same if new races were added?"

Not a fan of it overall. We just didn't want to deny anyone Pandaren.

Secondly, Pandaren were implemented in 2012 and were announced in 2011. It is nearly a decade since they did the experiment with neutral races. Since Mists of Pandaria we have had four expansion announcements, only one of which introduced new races but did introduce far more new races than had ever been added at one time before. None of those races were neutral despite some, such as Nightborne, clearly being able to go that way.

And thirdly the rationale provided by current game director Ion Hazzikostas on the two occasions he was directly asked why Void Elves and why not high elves? Because giving a duplicate of an existing core Horde race to the Alliance undermines the distinctiveness of the factions.

Pandaren are a race available to both sides. A race that is identical on both sides erodes the distinctiveness of those two factions, particularly as those two factions's distinctiveness is predicated on their racial composition and Blizzard recognises this with their refusal to make High Elves cross faction. If that is the rationale for denying high elves, then it was the impact of neutral Pandaren. The damage done though was limited because this was with a race that was brand new to the game and whom neither faction had a claim on and whose entire story was based on balance and neutrality. In contrast Blood Elves have been Horde for over twelve years now and it would be far more damaging to faction diversity should they be made available to the Alliance.

Pandaren neutrality is not a precedent. Pandaren neutrality was an error, an experiment that didn't work out. You don't point at mistakes and say that proves it can be done. You learn from mistakes and you don't repeat them.

Void Elves might be judged to be the outcome of this philosophy.

[Ielenia]

its not "the same humans", i don't know how to make it more clear than the dog exaple.

They are the same humans. Your "dog breed" example is just headcanon.

Of course we need

Says you.

they need to be different to bypass the faction barrier, just like void elves and nightborne

Nightborne and void elf differences are almost nil where they count. Evidence for that is how you'll never differentiate one from the other out in the game world before the character outline or health bar color tells you which faction, and therefore which race, they are.

the same could be said from you, you just keep saying they don't need to change, they don't to be different, despite the fact every single allied race ARE DIFFERENT, what are your records of not? what are your base from this argument? nothing at all

I'll repeat: the fact you repeat this, over and over, show how little you care about understanding what the other side wants and just wants to misrepresent with a strawman of your own for yourself to beat up.

their are not playable and not relevant, thus, they doesn't matter

They are "not relevant" and "don't matter" so much that you love to return here, over and over, to repeat the same tired arguments.

they are not meaningless, don't pretend,

I'm not "pretending" anything. I'm just telling how it is shown in the game.

if they were people would not be here asking the same elf without alterations

I'll repeat: the fact you repeat this, over and over, show how little you care about understanding what the other side wants and just wants to misrepresent with a strawman of your own for yourself to beat up. People are asking for "high elves without modifications" because they want high elves as shown in the game, and not some mockery of a race like the void elves.

That's like as if Blizzard went like: "Oh, you guys want to play as Mag'har orcs? Alright, here are your uncorrupted orcs, who became Lightbound fanatics of the Light, with glowing yellow/white tattoos all over their bodies, glowing white eyes, and have abandoned shamanism."

if it could, what it was not done? if HE could work standalone, why they had to change their color and thematic to bypass the faction barrier so it didn't blur the factions and every elf have their own unique thing?

You don't know why, but of course you'll assert your opinion as fact. And who said Blizzard "changed color and thematic" because of the faction barrier? Unless you're admitting that their reasoning (stories to tell) are nothing sort of bullshit.

farstriders? already a blood elf thing, more nature elves? night elves already got the spot, who will be rely less on magic? the silver covenant who peple rpeach more about

Again: lack of imagination, or lack of desire to use it.

Seems prettyy straightfoward to me

1) alliance ask for HE since days of old
2) they said they will think about with subraces
3) allied race come to give players the subraces they wanted
4) instead of high elves they got void elves

A reason should exist, and im not delusional to think they were just saving HE for money later

Nah, you're just "delusional" enough to assert your opinion as fact.

Exactly, pandaren would do that, thaats why they don't appear and don't get lore since mop, a failure of race

In your opinion. Also, do please wait until post-BfA to see how much we'll see the ARs in lore.

they would be just like pandaren

You're welcome to your opinion, even if it's wrong. Thalassian elves would not become "neutral" by any stretch of the imagination, because:
• They would not have the same starting zone;
• Their entire race is divided and are at odds with each other;
• They would not have the same racials;
• They would not have the same class options;
• They would not answer to the same ruler.

[Syegfryed]

They are the same humans. Your "dog breed" example is just headcanon.

when they are that much different, they obviously are differente

Again, Pitbulls and chihuahua are the same race, the dog race, they just are not the same dog

Just like Kultirans are not the same human, they have a lot of key physically differences that no matter how you try, you can't deny, since normal humans can't be like that, just like a chihuahua can't be a pitbull

Says you.

Says the game examples

Nightborne and void elf differences are almost nil where they count

They are straight foward differences to differentiate the races, and they do their duty well, thats why this topic still exist.

Evidence for that is how you'll never differentiate one from the other out in the game world before the character outline or health bar color tells you which faction, and therefore which race, they are.

This is not a issue, the issue is they being the same race with the same appearance and thematic, not their silhouette in full armor

I'll repeat: the fact you repeat this, over and over, show how little you care about understanding what the other side wants and just wants to misrepresent with a strawman of your own for yourself to beat up.

You once again dodge the point, you keep saying they don't need to be different with no base whatosever so the point can stand, its enver done, we don't have examples, and the only scenario something similar happened they had to be different to be playable in the opposite faction

Again, we have examples of the races needing a difference, both thematically and visually, to cross the faction barrier

You are telling they simple don't need that, because reasons, and because yes

They are "not relevant" and "don't matter" so much that you love to return here, over and over, to repeat the same tired arguments.

Sure, go around

the point still stands, the HE are not a core race and they didn't participate in the alliance so much to have focus so their thematic is strong in the alliance , all the other races, by being playable and a defined focus have their thematic fleshed out

I'm not "pretending" anything. I'm just telling how it is shown in the game.

they so meaningful that this topic exist, thats the reality, if it as meaningless, people would be fine with void elves.

I'll repeat: the fact you repeat this, over and over, show how little you care about understanding what the other side wants and just wants to misrepresent with a strawman of your own for yourself to beat up. People are asking for "high elves without modifications" because they want high elves as shown in the game, and not some mockery of a race like the void elves.

Again: this can be said to you entirely, you also don't understand the other side, you cannot simple ask for a high elf without modifications because is exactly what blood elves already are and they are already playable, in the other faction

That's like as if Blizzard went like: "Oh, you guys want to play as Mag'har orcs? Alright, here are your uncorrupted orcs, who became Lightbound fanatics of the Light, with glowing yellow/white tattoos all over their bodies, glowing white eyes, and have abandoned shamanism."

only if green orcs were in the opposite faction, this false equivalence don't work, orcs are in the same faction

When we got nightborne we didn't got night elves, we got a changed and mutaded version.

the subraces of the same factions obviously don't need much difference, crossing factions would obviously need a big difference, if you understand this, then we are not going anywhere.

You don't know why, but of course you'll assert your opinion as fact.

i said a pretty vallid hipotesis of what i think, do you think of anything better? cause a reason exist

And who said Blizzard "changed color and thematic" because of the faction barrier?

based on other allied races in the same faction who didn't had much drastic changes, and only the races who went cross-factions received a big change?

Unless you're admitting that their reasoning (stories to tell) are nothing sort of bullshit.

one could be consequency of the others, this are not just 8 or 80

Again: lack of imagination, or lack of desire to use it.

surprise me with your imagination, the only thing i saw so far here is: "elves who use less magic because reasons" farstriders do that already, "'elves who suddenly had human physic because no magic and push-ups" who is totally nonsensical, "elves druids using nature magic" night elves do that already all of those would rule out the silver covenant, the ones who people thing are the pike and most important High elves, how do you fix that?

Nah, you're just "delusional" enough to assert your opinion as fact.

your argument is saying someone is delusional, got it.

In your opinion. Also, do please wait until post-BfA to see how much we'll see the ARs in lore.

Pandarens got nothing since their first questline, NOTHING, not even in pandaria the horde and alliance pandarens are important or have any focus, its EIGHT YEARS of limbo

• They would not have the same racials;
• They would not have the same class options;

nonsense, since they are the same race

• They would not have the same starting zone;
• Their entire race is divided and are at odds with each other;
• They would not answer to the same ruler.

Same as pandarens

[Ielenia]

Again, Pitbulls and chihuahua are the same race, the dog race, they just are not the same dog

Again, your "dog breed" comparison is nothing but headcanon. Return when you have something other than headcanon.

Says the game examples

Which you ignore when they contradict you.

They are straight foward differences to differentiate the races, and they do their duty well, thats why this topic still exist.

If such differences-- which are meaningless when the goal is to differentiate the races out in the game world-- are sufficient, then different hairstyles and tattoos are enough differentiation for the high elves.

This is not a issue, the issue is they being the same race with the same appearance and thematic, not their silhouette in full armor

Appearance is easily fixed. Thematic, they're already different.

You once again dodge the point

I'm not dodging the point. I'm avoiding your strawman.

the point still stands, the HE are not a core race

This "core race" argument is D.O.A. because expansion races were not "core races" before being added as a playable option. BEs weren't a "core Horde race" before TBC. Draenei weren't a "core Alliance race" before TBC. Same thing with goblins, and worgen, and void elves, and nightborne, and pandaren, etc.

Again:

Again, you show zero knowledge of what the high-elf supporters are asking for, because no one is asking for blood elves.

only if green orcs were in the opposite faction, this false equivalence don't work, orcs are in the same faction

It's a perfect equivalence as long as you doing ignore the point: asking for something, and be given something else entirely. Also: your "in the opposite faction" argument falls flat since high elves are already in the Alliance. Only not playable, yet.

i said a pretty vallid hipotesis of what i think, do you think of anything better? cause a reason exist

Except you don't treat it like such. You fallaciously treat it as a fact: "I cannot think of anything else, then it is as I say."

based on other allied races in the same faction who didn't had much drastic changes, and only the races who went cross-factions received a big change?

So you're asserting your opinion as fact, again.

surprise me with your imagination, the only thing i saw so far here is: "elves who use less magic because reasons" farstriders do that already, "'elves who suddenly had human physic because no magic and push-ups" who is totally nonsensical, "elves druids using nature magic" night elves do that already all of those would rule out the silver covenant, the ones who people thing are the pike and most important High elves, how do you fix that?

Why should I bother? Because you'll then use your "imagination" to mock what I write, as you've just done. "Elves with human physique." Hah. No one said that.

Pandarens got nothing since their first questline, NOTHING, not even in pandaria the horde and alliance pandarens are important or have any focus, its EIGHT YEARS of limbo

If you're going to say all the pandaren lore and quests that existed in MoP are "nothing", then, by that logic, no race whatsoever ever got anything past their introduction zone. TBC? No draenei lore whatsoever. Cataclysm? No goblin/worgen lore whatsoever.

nonsense, since they are the same race

Wrong. Objectively wrong, too, if you think racials and class options are defined by genes and nothing else.

Same as pandarens

Wow. The more we talk, the more you show how little you care about lore. Really? Do you honestly think pandarens don't have the same starting zone? Really? Do you really think the entire pandaren race is "divided and at odds with each other"? Did you somehow forget that the Wandering Isle and Pandaria exist?

Then again, you believe Kul'Tiras humans were never planned to be an allied race from the get-go and were "done in a single patch", despite all evidence on the contrary, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.

[Syegfryed]

Again, your "dog breed" comparison is nothing but headcanon. Return when you have something other than headcanon.

you call headcanon but you just need to see then side by side, the reason you can't play a normal kul'tiran, just the fat ones, the normal ones would be just like regular stormwind humans, the kul'tiran big ones are different humans.

i gonna say this debate is just tedious and useless as the others times we had this same one, i will ignore the rest, principally because you already brought things for other discussion as a dirt move, lets just agree to disagree

[Ielenia]

you call headcanon

I call it because it is. Putting them 'side by side' proves nothing. Come back when you have some factual information regarding the Kul'Tiran ancestry, then we'll talk. Until then, I'll call it for what it is: headcanon.

[Aldefard Aelfwine]

Three things demonstrate their belief that it was a mistake.

Firstly, the response in 2013 from then lead developer Greg 'Ghostcrawler' Street when asked how he felt about Pandaren neutrality.

To quote it here, "How do you feel having Pandarian shared between both factions has worked out? Would you do the same if new races were added?"

Not a fan of it overall. We just didn't want to deny anyone Pandaren.

Secondly, Pandaren were implemented in 2012 and were announced in 2011. It is nearly a decade since they did the experiment with neutral races. Since Mists of Pandaria we have had four expansion announcements, only one of which introduced new races but did introduce far more new races than had ever been added at one time before. None of those races were neutral despite some, such as Nightborne, clearly being able to go that way.

And thirdly the rationale provided by current game director Ion Hazzikostas on the two occasions he was directly asked why Void Elves and why not high elves? Because giving a duplicate of an existing core Horde race to the Alliance undermines the distinctiveness of the factions.

Pandaren are a race available to both sides. A race that is identical on both sides erodes the distinctiveness of those two factions, particularly as those two factions's distinctiveness is predicated on their racial composition and Blizzard recognises this with their refusal to make High Elves cross faction. If that is the rationale for denying high elves, then it was the impact of neutral Pandaren. The damage done though was limited because this was with a race that was brand new to the game and whom neither faction had a claim on and whose entire story was based on balance and neutrality. In contrast Blood Elves have been Horde for over twelve years now and it would be far more damaging to faction diversity should they be made available to the Alliance.

Pandaren neutrality is not a precedent. Pandaren neutrality was an error, an experiment that didn't work out. You don't point at mistakes and say that proves it can be done. You learn from mistakes and you don't repeat them.

Void Elves might be judged to be the outcome of this philosophy.

Okay, thank you for the tweet you provided.Now I'm ready to believe that the blizzard think the pandarens are some kind of mistake.

But also in response, I will say that the employees of Blizzard (in particular Alex Afrasiabi) do not exclude that the appearance of high elves can be added for void elves. He said this to the lost Codex YouTube channel during BlizzCon 2018.

Q: Any future customisation coming to void elves to bring them closer to the high elf fantasy?

Response Alex Afrasiabi: Yes there's always a chance, don't give up hope, but just be respectful and you make your post.


What do you think about it?

[Shadowtwili]

And thirdly the rationale provided by current game director Ion Hazzikostas on the two occasions he was directly asked why Void Elves and why not high elves? Because giving a duplicate of an existing core Horde race to the Alliance undermines the distinctiveness of the factions.

This still pisses me off beyond reason. I mean we literally had highborne night elves joined with the Darnassian faction since Cataclysm, so what does the Horde get? Highborne night elves.

Also, Ion's ""If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"
" reasoning while giving the Horde purple skinned arcane using night elven highborne while ignoring the Shen'dralar highborne in the Alliance is rage inducing.

""If you want to be a purple skinned, night living, blue eyed elf...sorry, the alliance is there waiting for you" doesn't go for the Horde apparently.

Or for years they said that the high elves couldn't be playable because of their numbers.... but then we get a crack squad of elite void elves..... But that could atleast easily be explained away as the concept not making it into the game!

(not saying high elves should be playable, or void elves weren't a mistake mind you).

Also, @Syegfryed:

Non-playable Kul Tiran human models include thin, normal and fat body types. The playable Kul Tiran use the fat body type. They are not intended to be a separate race, they are simply variants on Kul Tirans made because Blizzard wanted bigger and smaller models to fit the various NPC roles and add more flavor to the world. They are not biologically different from other humans.

~Battle for Azeroth Releases August 14th. MMO-Champion (2018-04-05).
(https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...es-August-14th)
~WoW Q&A with Senior Producer Travis Day and Senior Concept Artist Jimmy Lo. Blizzard Watch (2018-04-05). (https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/)

[Syegfryed]

~Battle for Azeroth Releases August 14th. MMO-Champion (2018-04-05).
(https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...es-August-14th)
~WoW Q&A with Senior Producer Travis Day and Senior Concept Artist Jimmy Lo. Blizzard Watch (2018-04-05). (https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/)

dogs are biological the same too, but with different breeds, every one of then is the same biological race, canis familiaris, the point still stand, kul'tiran works just like this, a different breed of the same race of humans, nevertheless, totally different from each other, both physically and thematically

Again, this point is not working, this equivalence will not work



People here are preaching those things are exactly the same, despite one cannot become the other, thus proving a different breed, different from the other adapted to other conditions and lifestyle who is being developing in generations of isolation, another natural selection and the potential mixing with the Drust, since they went to live in kul'tiran society, explaining why only those can become druids.

People preaching those are the exactly the same, with no differences(purposely ignoring the clearly differences), while saying those:


are totally different, Those, with no magic whatsoever to make then different, neither enough generations for a difference to appear, just because they went to another faction.

Thats just bananas and this approach will not work, different hairstyle or jewelry will not be enough( no matter how some people say it is because they think so while no support of that) and bringing the pandarens dead problem will not work either, didn't work before it will not work now to blizzard.

Like i said, people need to start working around, Half-elves, or other magic breed variety, like one comment giving he suggestion of storm elves, who would be silver covenant elves changed by the magic of raden within Jaina staff, they would be white and blonde like people always wanted, just different from blood elves, with different thematic

even if its nearly impossible since they already got void elves still is a more valid approach, but the stubborn to get the exactly same elf of the horde with improvements and better customization is a laughable suggestion and there is no way blizzard would do that

This still pisses me off beyond reason. I mean we literally had highborne night elves joined with the Darnassian faction since Cataclysm, so what does the Horde get? Highborne night elves.

they are highborne anymore tough, they are nightborne, they are just like blood elves anyway, nothing would be disrupted

And if i remember well, to this very day, there is tons of complaints of people that mage became an option for night elves

""If you want to be a purple skinned, night living, blue eyed elf...sorry, the alliance is there waiting for you" doesn't go for the Horde apparently.

Night elves and nightborne are very different in models and thematic, thats not just they being purple or elf, the issue is deep than that, the problem with blood and high elves is how they are the same with the same thematic, and they would have to change that.

[Obelisk Kai]

This still pisses me off beyond reason. I mean we literally had highborne night elves joined with the Darnassian faction since Cataclysm, so what does the Horde get? Highborne night elves.

Also, Ion's ""If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"
" reasoning while giving the Horde purple skinned arcane using night elven highborne while ignoring the Shen'dralar highborne in the Alliance is rage inducing.

""If you want to be a purple skinned, night living, blue eyed elf...sorry, the alliance is there waiting for you" doesn't go for the Horde apparently.

Or for years they said that the high elves couldn't be playable because of their numbers.... but then we get a crack squad of elite void elves..... But that could atleast easily be explained away as the concept not making it into the game!

(not saying high elves should be playable, or void elves weren't a mistake mind you).

The highborne as represented by the Shen'dralar are a shadow of their former selves given the lengths their Prince went to in order to preserve their access to magic and the consequences of their fall. They failed in their attempt at preserving a distinct highborne culture and their sole claim to it's legacy now is with the name.

The real schism in elven society, all elves, is between the highborne and those who are not highborne. The heirs to the highborne culture are city dwelling, arcane magic using elves. The other side of that division are those who consciously rejected that culture, who denied it and embraced something different, a forest dwelling, druidic existence. The Shen'dralar may be Mages, but their remnants who returned to Darnassus implicitly accepted the supremacy of the druidic, arboreal culture their people had now embraced. As the 'elegy' novel demonstrated, for the most part they are viewed as warlocks are viewed within Stormwind, that is they are tolerated but that their practices offend the majority of the population. They may have won some plaudits for their role in elegy, but it is hard to imagine they can shift Night Elf culture in any meaningful way, their reward is likely to be an increased measure of toleration.

In contrast, on the other side of the divide, two thriving cultures have arisen from the highborne. The first is the Nightborne, who have successfully preserved the culture of the old Night Elf empire within Suramar. The Nightborne are essentially identical to what the highborne were during that empire, however they have undergone a measure of physiological differentiation from Night Elves (the level of difference is equivalent to the level of difference between Blood/high Elves and Void Elves). So while the Nightborne have the culture of the old Night Elf empire, the Night Elves ARE the Night Elves unaltered physically yet transformed culturally.
The second culture is of course that of the high elves, who are now known as the Blood Elves, who could not preserve their old culture but who instead attempted to recreate it and ended up with something that is uniquely theirs but also recognisably rooted in the culture of the highborne.

This split persists to the modern day, with the ancient divide between Highborne and non highborne almost precisely mapping onto the Horde-Alliance divide. The high elf exiles, Shen'dralar survivors and Void Elves smudge the dichotomy somehwat, but not egregiously given their low numbers and common exile status, but the following point stands.

The Highborne elves, what they stand for and what they represent, are now a fundamental strand of the identity of the Horde given that the vast number of elves who arose from the Highborne are Horde citizens. The Night Elves deliberately excised the highborne aspect of their culture after the end of the First invasion of the Burning Legion, and they represent the other side of that divide, one that is a fundamental strand of the identity of the Alliance.

[Shadowtwili]

are totally different, Those, with no magic whatsoever to make then different, neither enough generations for a difference to appear, just because they went to another faction.

Mind you, I am not for or against high elves becoming playable and I know there's no racial difference between the Thalassian elves, only a cultural one.

Just saying that according to Blizzard, all the humans (Kul Tiran, Gilnean, Stormwindian, skinny Kul Tiran) are biologically the same. I have no idea what you're trying to say with that Kul Tirans are a different breed.

If what I think you're trying to say means, you could logically take the same line for the Shadowlands asian and black humans, saying they're actually subspecies/breeds from white humans because they are visually distinct to the standard human models.

The highborne as represented by the Shen'dralar are a shadow of their former selves given the lengths their Prince went to in order to preserve their access to magic and the consequences of their fall. They failed in their attempt at preserving a distinct highborne culture and their sole claim to it's legacy now is with the name.

To be quite fair, the Suramar nightborne and the blood elves are also shadows of their former selves.
That said, the culture the Suramarians maintain is not that of the ancient Kaldorei Empire, it is different with the only overlap being the use of arcane. Their architecture, nobility, language, appearance, society have all fundemantally shifted since their shield went up.

The heirs to the highborne culture are city dwelling, arcane magic using elves. The other side of that division are those who consciously rejected that culture, who denied it and embraced something different, a forest dwelling, druidic existence.

Except the Highborne lived in a city until recently, before the New Horde invaded Eldre'thalas and ousted the Shen'dralar Highborne from their city so they could let it fall to ruins.

The Shen'dralar may be Mages, but their remnants who returned to Darnassus implicitly accepted the supremacy of the druidic, arboreal culture their people had now embraced.

Except they don't, the Shen'dralar are their own people and culture that can not be ordered around by the Archmage of High-Priestess, they are led by Archmage Mordent Evenshade (as per Wolfheart) and they work with the Darnassian night elves.

In contrast, on the other side of the divide, two thriving cultures have arisen from the highborne.

I don't consider that a measurement, I mean the void elves, high elves and Shen'dralar highborne are doing pretty good for themselves too, even if they're all apparently on the verge of extinction, all of them maintaining one or more outposts/cities/villages. (then again, so are the blood elves, gnomes, darkspear, tauren, orcs etcetc)

Anyway from what I can see on how you see it we'll just have to agree to disagree, since to me the nightborne are both stealing lore away from the Shen'dralar and night elves and giving the Horde a population of night elves.

[Syegfryed]

Just saying that according to Blizzard, all the humans (Kul Tiran, Gilnean, Stormwindian, skinny Kul Tiran) are biologically the same. I have no idea what you're trying to say with that Kul Tirans are a different breed.

im saying is, just because they are the same race, they don't need to be the same thing.

the race or specie in biology is the same, yes, but there are different subraces/subspecies or breeds within the same specie/race, sometimes those breeds and species/subraces are very different from each other.

you could find lizards of the same specie totally different in color, marks patterns and even texture or size, those would be called subspecies, but they are the same and could breed between then.

Same thing with Dogs, a lot of dogs are totally different from each other, like a pitbull and a chihuahua or other examples, they are the same specie, but NOT the same thing, hence, not the same breed.

This example applies to the kul'tiran case, Kul'tirans humans and other humans are the same race, but not the same thing, they are different breeds of the same race, a normal human cannot became a kul'tiran with push-ups, a kul'tiran cannot become a human with a diet, those things are from birth, they being the same race they can breed with themselves.

thats why using they as a factor in their pro agenda, like they are the same thing is completely bananas.

Even more when we have the unconfirmed theory of those kul'tirans having drust blood, since they joined kul'tirans society, that would explain their half-giant size and strength and why just those humans can be druids and hear the call of the drust of old, but, the pro-side like to shut down this because it would hurt their narrative, its only permitted when help their side.

[Katchii]

Which is, simply put, irrelevant. Because the high elves have existed since before WoW, and have been part of the Alliance since then, and yet it was the void elves that got the ticket... and have shown to be nothing special at all, despite all the promises of "stories to tell" that amounted to absolutely nothing.

If the void elves could do something the high elves cannot, or had any kind of story to tell that the high elves couldn't, it'd be fine to justify their existence. But they don't.

Not disagreeing with the stance that High Elves make sense as a playable race on the Alliance. Just wanted to point out that no, High Elves have not always been a part of the Alliance.

Their leadership defected during the third war because of the atrocities of Garithos and explicitly declared they were no longer a part of the Alliance, this can all be seen as part of the campaign in WC3: TFT. Those that are friendly to the Alliance now are those that were in Dalaran as part of the Silver Covenant the whole time and weren't their to witness those things. The ones that left Silvermoon because they didn't agree with the renaming of their race to Blood Elves likely wouldn't go back to the Alliance after the shit they went through, they're just splinter groups living out their lives away from all this faction war mess.

IF they were to ever allow Alliance aligned High Elves a playable race, lore wise, they would have to be from the Silver Covenant to make much sense in the lore. But I would support that, because it DOES make sense.

[Ardenaso]

I guess the way to make High Elves distinct is to make the playable character be a young adult High Elf, just as how Kul Tirans were made fat to be distinct with Stormwindians

- - - Updated - - -

Not disagreeing with the stance that High Elves make sense as a playable race on the Alliance. Just wanted to point out that no, High Elves have not always been a part of the Alliance.

Their leadership defected during the third war because of the atrocities of Garithos and explicitly declared they were no longer a part of the Alliance, this can all be seen as part of the campaign in WC3: TFT. Those that are friendly to the Alliance now are those that were in Dalaran as part of the Silver Covenant the whole time and weren't their to witness those things. The ones that left Silvermoon because they didn't agree with the renaming of their race to Blood Elves likely wouldn't go back to the Alliance after the shit they went through, they're just splinter groups living out their lives away from all this faction war mess.

IF they were to ever allow Alliance aligned High Elves a playable race, lore wise, they would have to be from the Silver Covenant to make much sense in the lore. But I would support that, because it DOES make sense.

plus those at the Kalimdor Brigade, Draenor Expedition, and the Highvale.

[Frenchvince]

Okay, thank you for the tweet you provided.Now I'm ready to believe that the blizzard think the pandarens are some kind of mistake.

But also in response, I will say that the employees of Blizzard (in particular Alex Afrasiabi) do not exclude that the appearance of high elves can be added for void elves. He said this to the lost Codex YouTube channel during BlizzCon 2018.

Q: Any future customisation coming to void elves to bring them closer to the high elf fantasy?

Response Alex Afrasiabi: Yes there's always a chance, don't give up hope, but just be respectful and you make your post.


What do you think about it?

Well, I hope that "this chance" will be available in shadowlands! That's good, since there will be new customization options.

[Obelisk Kai]

Okay, thank you for the tweet you provided.Now I'm ready to believe that the blizzard think the pandarens are some kind of mistake.

But also in response, I will say that the employees of Blizzard (in particular Alex Afrasiabi) do not exclude that the appearance of high elves can be added for void elves. He said this to the lost Codex YouTube channel during BlizzCon 2018.

Q: Any future customisation coming to void elves to bring them closer to the high elf fantasy?

Response Alex Afrasiabi: Yes there's always a chance, don't give up hope, but just be respectful and you make your post.


What do you think about it?

It's been debated to death here already.

The only reason I give credence to the possibility of high elf like skins on Void Elves is because he said here it was possible. Were it not for that I would entirely discount it given that the entire reason they gave Void Elves blue skins was to visually differentiate them from blood/high elves and to go back on that would seem ungodly stupid.

Frankly the fact he pivoted to forum behaviour so quickly suggests to me that what the devs know of the high elf request is that it's a complete dumpster fire of a topic and that what they know of threads seems to be that they quickly devolve into never ending flame wars and that, to put it mildly, it was a request for decorum and for pro high elfers to nicely phrase their requests so that their CMs can great break.

For me, the most telling thing is that before they considered the sub-race system fully, Ion Hazzikostas was the one who off handedly suggested high elves as a race they could add in that system. Once that system came out, you had Void Elves. In other words, once they sat down and thought things through, they realised they couldn't add a duplicate of an existing race to the game. Similarly, when they sit down and think through expanding Void Elf customization, I belive the same thought processes that led them to create Void Elves in the first place will ensure they don't turn Void Elves into ersatz high elves...or they'll result in some monkey paw result so you'd wished you never asked.