Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Sharby]

Just curious. Why don't you guys give feedback about how to make the current Alliance race's more appealing instead of asking for opposite faction's most popular race? Another human-looking race would be boring imo.

Except we literally already got one via void elves, people are requesting for human-like skin tones for them.

[FlubberPuddy]

Tbh, I am a little relieved, but curious, I did not expect this from them.

I didn't either! I was expecting Ion to meme again. Especially since at the most recent Blizzcon 2019 MrGM had asked them about Blue Eyes on Blood Elves for additional customization and there was a hesitation to answer.

Ion just straight up this time was like 'I can confirm' and then also provided the explanation as to why they aren't receiving it as 'it doesn't make sense for how that race has evolved.' Evoking more distinction between Blood Elves and High Elves.

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Except we literally already got one via void elves, people are requesting for human-like skin tones for them.

Thank you yes, this is the other bit. Alliance players are asking for ways to make their Alliance race options more appealing for them. Has nothing to do with the opposite faction aka Horde.

I'd even say people who play the opposite faction invited themselves into this discussion and appeared to lord their presence over it. It would be like going into an Ogre for Horde thread where people are using the Kul'Tiran model as a basis for how they'd want Ogres to be done for the Horde. Ignoring all the comments by people on how Ogres would get specific distinct looks to not just make them 'bald Kul'Tiran' and saying in the Ogre threads: Why are you guys asking for our race!

It's been super silly honestly and I'm glad that it's finally stumped out. But as you can see, it's still not stopping a few outside onlookers from trying to impose their views on others.

Like the discussion on High Elves realistically should revolve solely around Alliance players because that's where they are. Not get a bunch of Horde players commenting on things 'Alliance wants'. That's the disconnect that's been plaguing the discussion so much.

And saddest thing is Blood Elves are getting a plethora of options, and none of the existing ones are being taken away. So it makes one wonder, what is the fixation on keeping High Elf customizations out from others when it will have no effect on Blood Elves?

[The Silver Covenant]

Just curious. Why don't you guys give feedback about how to make the current Alliance race's more appealing instead of asking for opposite faction's most popular race? Another human-looking race would be boring imo.

High Elves are an Alliance race that was already taken by the opposite faction. We just want to play them where they belong.

[Mace]

Just curious. Why don't you guys give feedback about how to make the current Alliance race's more appealing instead of asking for opposite faction's most popular race? Another human-looking race would be boring imo.

Well, I remember the statement a while ago, that if they had made Night elves more attractive, including presenting their highborne side properly like they eventually did in Legion (but only in the Nightborne sub-race - gone horde), many players would be satisfied with that, and a much smaller number would want high elves.

TBh, I and many others feel that Blood elf

• Have superior models, more attractive and largely better animations (especially male casting) - appearance wise.
• They also have the more complete fantasy - people who love elves, love magical cities and forests - The blood elves have both, the Night elves have ruins and magical forests (most of which are charred and invaded).
• Lore wise in game - the blood elves constantly outperform the Night elves

In every department blood elves are better.

• Night elf models look derpier - especially the males - females have competition with Belves, males have a huge gap - NIght elf males need better faces and a better posture and better animations.
• Night elves need cool Night elf cities - Suramar is a night elf city, but it's with the Nightborne (horde night elves), both Zin'Azshari and Eldre'thalas, Nar'thalas all ruins, if they could actually fix up all 3, …
• Night elves need to start appearing in-game as magical as the lore is. Most of that magic was seen in the Nightborne -- while the Night elf connection is quite clear, this is not associated with the blue team, - hence players covet that. Now the Moonguard and Farondis had serious displays of magical power, but again, everyone was looking at Suramar and the Nightold, now if half the Nightborne still had their night elf appearances, and it was a mixture, people may feel differently.

I still think they should turn half the Nightborne NPC population into Night elves, and call it an accelerated effect of taking the fruit :P - and either build them New Zin'Azshari like we see in Warbringers, or share/give Suramar.
Finally fix the model issues - then maybe.

If Night elves were as attractive as blood elves, this thread would largely be for the real original High elf fans. And rather than horde hard cores trying to cockblock with arguments like low numbers and same models, the chief counter would be demanding they get night elves on the horde side.


Have you not noticed, that nobody wanted night elves on the horde? Not one request, but the minute they gave slimmer looking Night elves in a super magical Night elf city, - look at how the demand for Nightborne was largest on the horde - even after managing to have the player male model look so much worse. But rather than give them to the alliance they gave them void elves, as a means to avoid giving them high elf skin tones in the exchange trade. It also tells me that the fantasy of the race plays a huge role. They showed the best with the blood elves, whiles with the Night elves, its tucked in the lore, in-game had their better pieces given to the horde when it eventually came in 7.0, leaving them generally a lot shabbier.

Anyway, it's too late now. Even with much prettier Night elves, the demand for high elves will be high. Although I could be wrong. If Night elves became really attractive all round - I.e model, assets (forests and cities), lore developments - people might just not be that interested in high elves, or having the skin tone wouldn't affect them that much.

[FlubberPuddy]

Here's the clip in all its glory. Aptly titled by this 'peepsqueeker' user

https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidLaconicDeerPlanking

[Luck4]

HOLY SHIT ION JUST CONFIRMED NO BLUE EYE BLOOD ELVES CUZ THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR HOW THAT RACE EVOLVED!! And that those blue eye options will only be for NPC options atm.

Sounds like Ion set in motion another couple of years for High Elf debate, now I can see this thread breaking 1000 pages.

But on the other hand, the reason why he said no to blue-eyes for Blood Elves, probably also means no fair skin option planned for Void Elves, which isn't bad, but since there are no Allied Races planned for Shadowlands, it means nothing new until 2021.

So kinda hard to call it a win, but the dream will live on, I guess "hope remains".

[Anyael]

As someone who does want high elves, I don't understand the vitriol of the opposition from the other side. I would understand preferring other races be added, I can understand not wanting them added, but fundamentally why would you hate if playable High Elves were added to the Alliance?

[ThatsOurEric]

but fundamentally why would you hate if playable High Elves were added to the Alliance?

1 - Because the one side of fans are still crying that the WC3 Alliance race wasn't added to their side, and despite years later after
Burning Crusade, they're still crying about it. Horde players still haven't gotten Ogres, and you don't see mega threads about that.

2 - Lore already doesn't support numbers of Alliance High Elves in comparison to High Elves on the Horde's side.

3 - It would be ANOTHER Elf race. There are already FOUR, count them, FOUR playable elves. Do we really need five?

4 - Aside from eye color, there's really not enough substance to justify their creation.

[FlubberPuddy]

1 - Because the one side of fans are still crying that the WC3 Alliance race wasn't added to their side, and despite years later after
Burning Crusade, they're still crying about it. Horde players still haven't gotten Ogres, and you don't see mega threads about that.

2 - Lore already doesn't support numbers of Alliance High Elves in comparison to High Elves on the Horde's side.

3 - It would be ANOTHER Elf race. There are already FOUR, count them, FOUR playable elves. Do we really need five?

4 - Aside from eye color, there's really not enough substance to justify their creation.

Those are reasons for why you feel they should not be added.

The person you quoted, and the part you quoted, is asking why would you hate “if they were added to Alliance?”

Essentially: Blizzard makes High Elves an option on Alliance.

Do you continue to have vitriol over it? If so, how come?

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But on the other hand, the reason why he said no to blue-eyes for Blood Elves, probably also means no fair skin option planned for Void Elves

The leap of logic here sounds like the same leap of logic that led people to headcanon Blood Elf eye color changes based on what magic they’re using and so Blood Elves should have eye colors the range of a rainbow. We see how that leap of logic turned out today.

Ion’s statement explicitly and specifically applies to blue eyes on blood elves.

Nowhere does he state that “this is a rule that applies to all races” or any of that sort.

And again, Void Elves were already said to have it become a possibility that High Elf fantasy is enabled through them.

High Elves as an Allied Race was said to be possible too, just not in the near term.

Just like Ion never explicitly mentioned blue eyes on Blood Elves as an option (he just said eye color wasn’t enough at the time, and maybe contact lenses in the future) yet people took those comments to mean blue eyes will come on blood elves until today.

I think people need to learn the difference between explicit and implicit statements.

A big one was just laid out today.

Some people still are arguing against it, now even saying what they admonished some High Elf pro posters for saying: Ion doesn’t know lore.

[ThatsOurEric]

My reasons are the same if they were added.

I wouldn't go on a long winded crusade like making threads about it, but I would absolutely not be happy
with the decision. Still, it would be what it is, and I'd get over it at some point.

[Mace]

As someone who does want high elves, I don't understand the vitriol of the opposition from the other side. I would understand preferring other races be added, I can understand not wanting them added, but fundamentally why would you hate if playable High Elves were added to the Alliance?

It wouldn't exist if night elves in their current model and set up were equally as attractive, they'd instead be okay with an exchange. But then if night elves were as attractive as blood elves, would so many alliance players want high elves?

Nightborne prove that desiring a race is more than j ust its model though, the Nightborne carry the night elf civilization set - and that whole magical night elf (hugely popular with the novel reading NElf fans (WotA -trilogy) was greatly desired by the horde when it showed up in Legion, if you can recall the forum requests from horde and the popularity of the allied race. - but blizzard notice seem to put a distance between the alliance kaldorei and every thing they've doene cool for night elves. e.g. Suramar, Mooonguard, Nightborne, Farondis even Illidari while playable have nothing to do with the alliance night elves - you get whooping boys, ruins, hardly any magical elven stuff aside from the nature magic which while nice, I'm sorry is not enough when compared to night elf pre-sundering stuff shown in Legion.

End result = alliance players want high elves - decent model, decent magical fantasy, aesthetics, - possessing desirable qualities , displayed favourably and performing very well when they show up in lore. It's no wonder we want the alliance counterpart. I keep telling people and stressing, Night elves were never created just to be forest elves, or savage wild elf group - that fantasy is not enough, their own history and pre-sundering civilization has already caught the eye of the fans, being there from the start for those who were interested in the race and read the books. Seeing I appear in Legion was incredible, seeing the legionnight elf stuff placed on the horde with no on par replacement on the alliance, was perplexing and difficult - without amazing Night elves, generally people are going to want High elves, and it's obvious why and those very reasons are exactly why you have some of the more possessive minded horde male fans kicking back - "It's mine, I have it, you can't have it. They're very possessive about the horde. I understand them, it's a human emotion at play, but over the wrong thing

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It's simple, if the developer has gone out of their way to make sure the Night elf isn't as appealing or attractive as the blood/high elf, the fans are not going to be satisfied, they are going to covet the better done race. and will continue to.

[Sharby]

Male nelves just need to lose the lankyness and weird hourglass figure and I think they'd be fine.



Belf males are >>>> because they are normally proportioned and have well textured hair/faces. Male nelves also look way too old and gaunt, its really off-putting.

[matrix123mko]

I think it's a matter that they have culturally evolved beyond that; Alleria -and I would say her rangers- exists in a sort of stasis of a previous time where these tattoos and braids and feathers were more commonplace -for Farstriders at least- we can clearly see how they evoke a more kaldorei sensibility.

I agree that high elves are quite regressive.

Blood Elves on the other hand, consolidated as more of a "city elf", the Farstriders lost power with the advent of the Blood Knights, and BE's as a whole started to move forward as a society to survive.

Farstriders still have representation in the high command. There is no showcase of Farstriders falling from grace. There is actually a lot of their forces in BfA but they for some reason had orc armors.

The little we have seen of the BE expanded customization leans closer to urban opulence (jewelry, gold chains) and further away from the woodsy ranger aesthetic that Alleria (as a VE/HE) represents.

Which is not bad. I prefer Magisters and I would be genuinely disappointed if they were shunned in favour of Silver Hand(they don't even use their unique flags anymore) and Farstriders.

[Varodoc]

1 - Because the one side of fans are still crying that the WC3 Alliance race wasn't added to their side, and despite years later after
Burning Crusade, they're still crying about it. Horde players still haven't gotten Ogres, and you don't see mega threads about that.

2 - Lore already doesn't support numbers of Alliance High Elves in comparison to High Elves on the Horde's side.

3 - It would be ANOTHER Elf race. There are already FOUR, count them, FOUR playable elves. Do we really need five?

4 - Aside from eye color, there's really not enough substance to justify their creation.

Point 3 is such a stupid argument, I swear. Why dont you people understand that elves are super popular, so Blizzard would make ton of cash. People dont want to play ugly cows or dumb ogres, they want to play elves. That's why we have 4 elven variations as of now.

[Obelisk Kai]

I still consider his statements in 2018 to be disrespectful and contrary to what's shown in the game, doesn't necessarily make it hypocritical to celebrate (though feels like too strong a word) his updated stance (ie blue eyed elves not being a horde thing). Though it also kinda further proves that there's no solid be-all and end-all answers, even from high-up Blizz employees, and that there's bound to be discrepancies between what's in the game, what the devs say at any given time and out of game lore sources as things will always change (even to the point of retcons) to fit where they want the game to go forward (which is itself bound to change as the game moves forward, different/new developers prioritize different things, in response to feedback, etc etc).

Regardless, I'm happy to see my main point got across, that this is all up to interpretation. Maybe it's not intended, but you often come across as having yours be the one true interpretation of the facts rather than just that, one subjective take on it based on the facts you personally find to have the most weight to them, and dismissing everyone elses interpretations completely, which for obvious reasons comes off as kinda hostile.

Because sometimes there only IS one interpretation of what is said and if you don't agree with it, then that is more because you don't want to accept what was said. One particular line from Ion's 2018 response can be considered somewhat ambiguous and open to interpretation, which is why you have to go back to other primary sources to determine the meaning. The exiles clearly don't have a different relationship with the Sunwell in the modern era because it's confirmed they can still feel it, it's confirmed they can feel it's difference, it's confirmed you don't need to visit the Sunwell to partake of it to sate the addiction and it's confirmed they still do so as it's a cultural touchstone for them.

But that was just one line that is fairly easy to clarify by looking at other sources, and one line amongst a few very minor points of difference he was highlighting to make the explicit point that those very few minor points of difference don't matter. Everything else he said isn't open to interpretation.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves. That is a fact.

Blood Elves ARE the High Elf option of Warcraft. That is a fact.

Void Elves were created to give the Alliance something that feels like a Blood Elf, that is a High Elf variant, but which is also it's own thing. That is a fact.

Giving a duplicate of one race to the other faction diminishes the diversity of the two factions. That is also a fact because how could it be otherwise.

Nothing that was said last night disproves or invalidates anything he said in 2018. He merely restated that the status quo regarding eye colour, which was another of the minor differences he listed in 2018, is going to continue.

So I am afraid your main point is wrong. It's not all up to interpretation at all. That's just another way of saying you have license to rationalise and rationalise and rationalise until you end up convinced that what was said wasn't actually what was said. Which is likely why his 2018 answer was so 'disrespectful'. It was put to you bluntly mostly without caveats and the forthrightness definitely wasn't appreciated. That certain people then latched onto his 'anything is possible' line at the end is ample demonstration of why such forthrightness was required, a less blunt approach would have enabled even more rationalising away of his comments.

Some things are set in stone.
Blood Elves not getting blue eyes because of lore? That seems very unambiguous to me. Not really up for interpretation.

As is Blood Elves being the high elf option in WoW, Void Elves being the high elf option in the Alliance, and the exiles being a dissolute group scattered across the planet with barely any numbers and no real focus.

[Uthan]

Because sometimes there only IS one interpretation of what is said and if you don't agree with it, then that is more because you don't want to accept what was said. One particular line from Ion's 2018 response can be considered somewhat ambiguous and open to interpretation, which is why you have to go back to other primary sources to determine the meaning. The exiles clearly don't have a different relationship with the Sunwell in the modern era because it's confirmed they can still feel it, it's confirmed they can feel it's difference, it's confirmed you don't need to visit the Sunwell to partake of it to sate the addiction and it's confirmed they still do so as it's a cultural touchstone for them.

But that was just one line that is fairly easy to clarify by looking at other sources, and one line amongst a few very minor points of difference he was highlighting to make the explicit point that those very few minor points of difference don't matter. Everything else he said isn't open to interpretation.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves. That is a fact.

Blood Elves ARE the High Elf option of Warcraft. That is a fact.

Void Elves were created to give the Alliance something that feels like a Blood Elf, that is a High Elf variant, but which is also it's own thing. That is a fact.

Giving a duplicate of one race to the other faction diminishes the diversity of the two factions. That is also a fact because how could it be otherwise.

Nothing that was said last night disproves or invalidates anything he said in 2018. He merely restated that the status quo regarding eye colour, which was another of the minor differences he listed in 2018, is going to continue.

So I am afraid your main point is wrong. It's not all up to interpretation at all. That's just another way of saying you have license to rationalise and rationalise and rationalise until you end up convinced that what was said wasn't actually what was said. Which is likely why his 2018 answer was so 'disrespectful'. It was put to you bluntly mostly without caveats and the forthrightness definitely wasn't appreciated. That certain people then latched onto his 'anything is possible' line at the end is ample demonstration of why such forthrightness was required, a less blunt approach would have enabled even more rationalising away of his comments.

Some things are set in stone.
Blood Elves not getting blue eyes because of lore? That seems very unambiguous to me. Not really up for interpretation.

As is Blood Elves being the high elf option in WoW, Void Elves being the high elf option in the Alliance, and the exiles being a dissolute group scattered across the planet with barely any numbers and no real focus.

Seems like you're doing an awful lot of that yourself, I see nothing but a heap of rationalizing upon rationalizations in all your posts myself, and you're clearly convinced you're 100% right which doesn't leave much room for more to say on the matter, so let's agree to disagree on pretty much all of what you've said then ^^

Edit: At least I'm open to multiple interpretations being right, guess we'll simply see who's right in the end.

[Obelisk Kai]

Seems like you're doing an awful lot of that yourself, I see nothing but a heap of rationalizing upon rationalizations in all your posts myself, and you're clearly convinced you're 100% right which doesn't leave much room for more to say on the matter, so let's agree to disagree on pretty much all of what you've said then ^^

No rationalising involved at all. After all, I am not arguing that he didn't rule out blue eyes last night or that he was misunderstood, or that he is lying and that blue eyes are clearly coming in a future update as a surprise.

If you take what he said last at face value, then it is hypocritical to call other direct statements into question simply because you don't like what was said.

[elbleuet]

As is Blood Elves being the high elf option in WoW, Void Elves being the high elf option in the Alliance, and the exiles being a dissolute group scattered across the planet with barely any numbers and no real focus.

Numbers don't matter when it comes to add new races. And High elves are way more numerous than the void elves, so please stop using this argument.

and the exiles being a dissolute group scattered across the planet

Most of them are unified under the banner of the Alliance so they aren't a "dissolute group".
Some created their own faction. They even brought war in various places, including Suramar, Dalaran, Theramore and the Isle of Thunder.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves. That is a fact.

Also no.

No blue eyes. No tattoos. No High elves. Blood elves envolved. We got the confirmation.

[Uthan]

No rationalising involved at all. After all, I am not arguing that he didn't rule out blue eyes last night or that he was misunderstood, or that he is lying and that blue eyes are clearly coming in a future update as a surprise.

If you take what he said last at face value, then it is hypocritical to call other direct statements into question simply because you don't like what was said.

Bit silly to bring that specific one up since Ion has now completely turned around on stating that blue eyed elves are a horde thing, meaning it's proven to not have been wrong to have questioned him last time at all (though last time his statement went contrary to what's shown in the game and this time it lines up with it, so less reason to argue now I agree). That you're not trying to twist this particular statement in that particular direction and that there are others more unreasonable than you around doesn't really change my point in the slightest however.

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[yana]

Well, I remember the statement a while ago, that if they had made Night elves more attractive, including presenting their highborne side properly like they eventually did in Legion (but only in the Nightborne sub-race - gone horde), many players would be satisfied with that, and a much smaller number would want high elves.

TBh, I and many others feel that Blood elf

• Have superior models, more attractive and largely better animations (especially male casting) - appearance wise.
• They also have the more complete fantasy - people who love elves, love magical cities and forests - The blood elves have both, the Night elves have ruins and magical forests (most of which are charred and invaded).
• Lore wise in game - the blood elves constantly outperform the Night elves

In every department blood elves are better.

• Night elf models look derpier - especially the males - females have competition with Belves, males have a huge gap - NIght elf males need better faces and a better posture and better animations.
• Night elves need cool Night elf cities - Suramar is a night elf city, but it's with the Nightborne (horde night elves), both Zin'Azshari and Eldre'thalas, Nar'thalas all ruins, if they could actually fix up all 3, …
• Night elves need to start appearing in-game as magical as the lore is. Most of that magic was seen in the Nightborne -- while the Night elf connection is quite clear, this is not associated with the blue team, - hence players covet that. Now the Moonguard and Farondis had serious displays of magical power, but again, everyone was looking at Suramar and the Nightold, now if half the Nightborne still had their night elf appearances, and it was a mixture, people may feel differently.

I still think they should turn half the Nightborne NPC population into Night elves, and call it an accelerated effect of taking the fruit :P - and either build them New Zin'Azshari like we see in Warbringers, or share/give Suramar.
Finally fix the model issues - then maybe.

If Night elves were as attractive as blood elves, this thread would largely be for the real original High elf fans. And rather than horde hard cores trying to cockblock with arguments like low numbers and same models, the chief counter would be demanding they get night elves on the horde side.


Have you not noticed, that nobody wanted night elves on the horde? Not one request, but the minute they gave slimmer looking Night elves in a super magical Night elf city, - look at how the demand for Nightborne was largest on the horde - even after managing to have the player male model look so much worse. But rather than give them to the alliance they gave them void elves, as a means to avoid giving them high elf skin tones in the exchange trade. It also tells me that the fantasy of the race plays a huge role. They showed the best with the blood elves, whiles with the Night elves, its tucked in the lore, in-game had their better pieces given to the horde when it eventually came in 7.0, leaving them generally a lot shabbier.

Anyway, it's too late now. Even with much prettier Night elves, the demand for high elves will be high. Although I could be wrong. If Night elves became really attractive all round - I.e model, assets (forests and cities), lore developments - people might just not be that interested in high elves, or having the skin tone wouldn't affect them that much.

So basicaly you wanted the night elves to abandon their elune and druidic roots and their story of repenting for their sins and reimagining themselves to prevent a second sundering so they can have pretty cities? Suramar represents everything the kaldorei dont want to be and you are trying to force a fantasy to them that is contradictory to their core.
their magic is druidic and divine, the highborne are at best kept around in a leash and should have never been accepted back and are basicaly the warlocks of their race: kept around because they are usefull but never accepted and forced to keep quiet and out of sight.

If you want the kaldorei to regress to a culture they activaly despise, then just play a nightborne lol.