Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the RACE is available and the fact that it isn't the VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE is the personal problem of helfers.

We're moving into an era of the game where subfactions do matter by the fact those increased customizations are coming so that people can play, in your own words, "VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE".

Or do you think when Danuser talks about being able to play Wildhammer he's talking about an entirely new and different group of Wildhammer that the Alliance has never knew about?

[Varx]

Agree with this too. If it was literally impossible many people wouldn't concern themselves, especially those not wanting it. Continuing to return to regurgitate ad nauseum as if to say "hey Blizzard I'm still here, don't forget!" for attention.

It's also going to lose its luster when/if blue eyes come to Blood Elves and the requests continue for High Elves. Showing even more how iconic and loved that identity is to Alliance for those players continuing to request it.

We're about 3 years in since Void Elves were revealed and the High Elf request exploded. It has not lost its engagement within the community. Blizzard even referencing it this year, as well as that previous year where they joked about 'World of Elfcraft'.

Kinda situates the request as on their radar. Whether they decide to do anything about it remains to be seen, but acknowledging it as still there is good in my opinion.

Especially since as Thunder said, if the wall at Blizzard is making them look different enough, that can be easily rectified. That's the smallest hurdle. Especially with fans already having created so many of their own variations and ideas about it, like in this thread alone.

This is just silly from a practical game-play stand point. There are "sub-factions" and groups for every playable race in the game. If high elves became a things without going the neutral route and giving the horde a new race to compensate then you're opening up the flood gates for every special snow flake to demand their very very very^100 specific race.

Oh helfers got their specific pure thalasian elf despite being biologically identical to an existing race then i want to be a.....


Grimtotem tauren,
Horde kul tiran pirate,
defias human,
alterac human,
SI 7: goblin,
stromgarde human,
MU maghar orc,
dragon maw orc,
steamwheedle goblin,


so on and so forth.

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We're moving into an era of the game where subfactions do matter by the fact those increased customizations are coming so that people can play, in your own words, "VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE".

Or do you think when Danuser talks about being able to play Wildhammer he's talking about an entirely new and different group of Wildhammer that the Alliance has never knew about?

Exactly!! Which means that the possibility of helfers getting a whole new race for high elves is not going to happen. As for velevs getting helf options. That's not going to happen either.

I saw someone post a pic of a belf in velf heritage armor. Like seriously? You can't play a velf and expect to look like a h/belf. Then you wouldnt be a damn velf. come on guys...

[FlubberPuddy]

This is just silly from a practical game-play stand point. There are "sub-factions" and groups for every playable race in the game. If high elves became a things without going the neutral route and giving the horde a new race to compensate then you're opening up the flood gates for every special snow flake to demand their very very very^100 specific race.

Oh helfers got their specific pure thalasian elf despite being biologically identical to an existing race then i want to be a.....


Grimtotem tauren,
Horde kul tiran pirate,
defias human,
alterac human,
SI 7: goblin,
stromgarde human,
MU maghar orc,
dragon maw orc,
steamwheedle goblin,


so on and so forth.

We already have people "demand their very very very^100 specific race." The request for High Elves never changed that. Some of the examples of you've listed have been 'demanded' by players

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...high_elves_so/

That got 1642 upvotes

With top comment having 708 upvotes and agreeing that's a fine trade. next one has 247 upvotes saying feel free to campaign for it and OP has their support.

Can the anti-helfers show me they are ~700 people strong or more than that?

[bloodykiller86]

See now you are completely missing the point. Pay attention and don't jump to conclusions, comprehend what other people are saying:

The point is that giving VE's a HE origin NEEDS a lore explanation because it's not just an aesthetic, but a whole "race change" to pass from one to the other. The point I was bringing up is that you saying "we don't need an explanation for that" and comparing it to Wildhammer and Forest troll only would fit if Void Elves were given a HE look. Which We All Know You Disagree With.




Again, it's not even on the same ball park to say "this sand troll joined the Horde" and "this high elf went through a hitherto unknown voidification process to become a void elf. And even so, I fully believe we ALSO need some lore explanation why we are able to play as Farraki, since they do not a horde background, it's still bad, but not as bad as to just pretend we are able to replicate an admiteddly accidental process at will.

All I know now is that we need lore explanations for HE VE's and Farraki trolls joining the Horde. And I'm fully on board with this being done through flavor or quest text -which can also apply to Forest Trolls and Wildhammer- I see degrees of necessity for all, what I don't get why are just against the idea of lore clarification on this.



I'll give you this is a matter of opinion to a degree -which process would be harder to replicate or the more likely results- and ultimately irrelevant because I'm not trying to justify VE's giving HE's skin tones. My point here is that the process that made VE's was an accident, so if there's any intention and further success to replicate it, that has to be addressed by the lore . What I don't get is you being against this needing explaining, I don't see the rationale behind clarifying and expanding a lore point that's notoriously contentious.

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Why are people pointing out more mistakes of the in game lore not addressing things it should as a good thing? Sure the Saurfang issue wasn't as bad because he was like literally the highest ranking Orc left, but it wasn't good either. Why are people against explaining the lore now? Why???



Sure, because the only characters that will appear on the book will be the ones mentioned in the pre release. It will be completely a self contained stage show.

Like sure Vereesa might not appear, the point is we don't know, but the logic you are using to give your opinion -better said, your wish- is by being illogical. At what point you do not realize you are foregoing rationale just to be contrarian?

Like for fucks sake, it's not an wild conclusion that Alleria's sister and son will show up at some point since she will be one of the main characters. It might be wrong of course, but it's probable given their relationship. Saying she "probably won't be" because we haven't already see her mentioned is just being contrarian out of spite lol. Like what is even the motivation behind it?

High Elve's are Blood Elves which means Void Elves are Blood Elves. skin color doesnt matter

[FlubberPuddy]

High Elve's are Blood Elves which means Void Elves are Blood Elves. skin color doesnt matter

First time I'm hearing that Vereesa and her sons and the Silver Covenant and Highvale and 7th legion shieldmages are all Blood Elves. Do you have proof providing evidence for this?

Or is it baseless statements all over again?

[Ielenia]

But you're only proving my point. Like you said, Helfers are panning for the alliance aligned elves since they don't like the horde, they want to be part of the silver covenant, and blah blah blah.

We don't want Alliance blood elves. Screw the blood elves. We want the Alliance high elves that have been part of the Alliance already for several years, and have time and again lent their forces and help to the Alliance, often against the Horde.

What if i wanted to specifically play a normal kul tiran human? Well too bad because playable KT humans are fat only

What if I wanted to specifically play an orc with normal, upright posture? Well too bad because playable orcs are hunchback only.

You see how this argument of yours doesn't work?

[Obelisk Kai]

Real life examples don't work because real life, unlike works of fiction, cannot be "expanded upon" or "retcon-ed" by a few strokes of a pen or a few key presses on a keyboard.

Blizzard has expanded on the high elves (not the blood elves) in Wrath with the creation of the Silver Covenant. And they can do so again, becauase they have done so in the past. More than once. "Oh, did we say that the high elves are a near-extinct race in the past? Oh, oops. Oopsie! Well, not anymore!" Blizzard "retconing" things is nothing new, because they have done so in the past. More than once: the playable draenei were retconed into existence. The playable worgen was retconed into existence. The Wandering Isle was retconed into existence (A GIGANTIC turtle as big as a sizable island roaming the seas and no sailor in all those many, many years has ever spotted it? Really?).

So your argument as to why they aren't nearly dead/nearly extinct is that if they wish Blizzard can retcon more into existence.

So I'm right in stating they are nearly dead/extinct and that you no riposte to that? Because if I wasn't right, they wouldn't need a retcon.

If you don't care to look, of course you won't find any. Oh well.

People looked. And counted. Two named exiles and two shield mages on an airship. The Ankoan played a bigger part in the war on behalf of the Alliance.

But not all high elves are blood elves.

Understand this, Kai: when we say "high elves" here, we're talking about the group of Thalassian elves THE GAME AND LORE identify as "high elves". That means we are not talking about the "blood elves". And you know this. Yet, despite the race already having an appropriate name (Thalassian elves) you insist on calling the whole race "high elves", in what I can only understand as a clear intention to muddle the conversation by playing word games.

Because they are high elves, at least in the truest sense of the term. The truest sense of the term is synonymous with thalassian elves because not so long ago, thalassian elf = high elf. The term 'high elf' was therefore equivalent to 'human', an ideologically agnostic term encompassing all members of the species. Just as Human encompasses every Human, so high elf used to encompass all thalassian elves.
What has changed is that the vast majority of the people changed the name of the race from high elf to blood elf in honour of the fallen. Those who rejected this change did so for philosophical (since resolved) and political reasons. At that moment, the term 'high elf' stopped being an ideologically agnostic term and instead became representative of a miniscule bands of recalcitrant outcasts who didn't find an accommodation with the new order.
The term 'high elf' therefore serves as a solely political distinction in the modern era, just as being a member of the Defias Brotherhood distinguishes the traitors to Stormwind from the majority population of Stormwind, despite being the same race in every other sense.

And, as cannot be emphasised enough, politics is not enough of a reason to justify duplicating a core race of one faction to the other.

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Except... you cannot "remind certain people what they're asking for is already there" when what is being asked is clearly not available yet.

Oh? Why?

Are Orcs not playable because the Dragonmaw aren't an option?

Are Humans not playable because Defias Brotherhood membership isn't a valid choice?

Are Trolls unplayable because there isn't an explicit Revantusk option?

High Elves are playable as Blood Elves. Just because they aren't on the faction you wish them to be on does not diminish that is the truth of the situation. And had, as so easily might have been the case, Blood Elves been given to the Alliance back during TBC I sincerely doubt you'd be here over a decade later complaining about the high elves not being available.

[Varx]

We don't want Alliance blood elves. Screw the blood elves. We want the Alliance high elves that have been part of the Alliance already for several years, and have time and again lent their forces and help to the Alliance, often against the Horde.


What if I wanted to specifically play an orc with normal, upright posture? Well too bad because playable orcs are hunchback only.

You see how this argument of yours doesn't work?

Dude you're comparing a simple stance change to two completely different skeleton rigs and implementing a new race over a simple customization addition. like really????

And im aware of the alliance elf thing that's why i mentioned silver covenant, like you even quoted it yourself man. Like i said, that doesn't mean that every sub faction needs to be playable. You know how many sub factions exists in this damn game?????

[HoodKazekage]

Guy what if blizzard had a side quest for Void elves that allowed the to be cleansed and have their eyes turn blue? Kinda like night warriors for the night elves? Just a thought since Alleria is still fair skinned but the void takes her over occasionally. Would be a quick way for blizz to implement them into the game.

[Varx]

Guy what if blizzard had a side quest for Void elves that allowed the to be cleansed and have their eyes turn blue? Kinda like night warriors for the night elves? Just a thought since Alleria is still fair skinned but the void takes her over occasionally. Would be a quick way for blizz to implement them into the game.

Alleria is a special case. Plus that gimmick is unique to worgen anyway.

[Obelisk Kai]

The reason the opposition needs to try to spin lore and requisites for joining is because they can't admit that all that forbids high elves being playable is arbitrary design from the devs. And, since it's arbitrary, a change in mindset could make it happen. That's why they fight these threads so fiercely: they are afraid that an unopposed request could influence the devs.

They wouldn't bother if it was an impossible request.

Nobody needs to spin lore, the lore supports the exiles as a diminished, scattered, incoherent group. Nor is the design arbitrary. Calling it arbitrary merely reinforces the flaw in the pro High Elf world view, the incapacity to understand the innate selfishness of the request. That you believe in your personal enjoyment so much that you are happy to denigrate and diminish one of the core pillars of the franchise that is universal for everyone, the two factions at the game's core. I get that it's fine to trash something you don't believe is important because it's in the way of what you want, but it IS important.

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Guy what if blizzard had a side quest for Void elves that allowed the to be cleansed and have their eyes turn blue? Kinda like night warriors for the night elves? Just a thought since Alleria is still fair skinned but the void takes her over occasionally. Would be a quick way for blizz to implement them into the game.

It's been suggested and debated to death. Long story short for many pro high elf people it wouldn't be enough because it's still a Void Elf with all the attendant racials and the inability to be a Paladin.

From a design perspective it erases the distinction between Blood Elves and Void Elves. If Blizzard didn't care about that distinction across the faction line they'd never have added Void Elves and would have gone for the exiles. Devoiding them defeats the point.

And Alleria is unique, she became a Void Elf by devouring the heart of a dark naaru whereas other Void Elves are converted by being blasted by void energy. Dark Naaru are also, canonically, incredibly rare so that really isn't an option.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That much is pretty clear from Blizzard's end. The same reasons for the customizations coming. While they might be 'lore approved' Danuser really focused on outright stating they're not gonna stop adding extra customization for players just because they won't be able to explicitly spell it out in-game, as that would require so many resources they would not be able to add those extra options in the first place.

That puts the conversation in a good place because it, while sure I would have enjoyed having a separate High Elf option with unique racials/heritage/mount attached to them. I can make do with at least looking the part on Alliance side if given through Void Elf customizations.

We just have to wait a bit longer to see how Blizzard wants to handle it. But going off of almost every data-mined option being shown so far appears to have basis in player requests, then it looks tentatively good for High Elf fans.

Seeing as Afrasiabi said it is indeed possible to get customization through Void Elves for that 'High Elf fantasy' and that appears to be the most asked for request regarding Void Elves. People have been even suggesting it as the 'High Elf Compromise' on official forums.

At this time, feels like best case scenario, but to be frank, I don't see it happening. I have a very different outlook on what I'd like to happen, and what we will end up getting, and even if I do think at this point less blue VE's are the closer we are gonna get, still feels relatively unlikely to me.

In short, I'm just not hopeful, which kinda sucks, but kinda used at this point, which works for me.

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But you're only proving my point. Like you said, Helfers are panning for the alliance aligned elves since they don't like the horde, they want to be part of the silver covenant, and blah blah blah.

Here starts your misunderstanding of the actual issue. The presumption that one only wants high elves because one dislikes the Horde. And as someone who plays both sides and mains horde, that's just not true.

Whether you like it or not, the ideological difference of High Elves makes them interesting to a lot of people, because that by itself is a major variation which is the appeal of an allied race.

Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the RACE is available and the fact that it isn't the VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE is the personal problem of helfers.

Which is also the problem with all AR based on an already existing one. The problem is that HE are viable lorewise, but gameplay design-wise, unattainable. The fact that Blood Elves are a playable race is as immaterial than saying that we couldn't have had HMT because Tauren already were playable*, because the issue has never been that another grouping of that "race" is already playable the issue is that the HE aesthetic crosses faction lines, and that's Blizzards priority concern over any Lore; Is not a lore issue, nor is an issue the race is already playable as another group, the problem is that crosses lines.

*If High Elves were horde aligned (I know it makes no sense but follow through) different hairstyles, eye, hair color and skin tones would have made them as different as HMT from Tauren.

Otherwise, you are asking for the same treatment as pandas and unless blizz's changes their stance on neutral races then High Elevs will never happen.

While I overall think the faction dichotomy hurts WoW's lore regarding races and I have wanted for a while for a game to either make races neutral or allow every race to play on an "independent" manner, I do think there are many ways if making plausible playable High Elves aesthetically different enough because the model can just look different; the playable model represents an heroic average of a group, and there are enough behavioral and lifestyles differences in High Elves to just look different -specially groups like the Silver Covenant that are accused of "mingling with lesser races and diluting their bloodline"- It would make them no different from Kul Tirans, who we can all see they just are not baseline humans but everyone in universe just says so.

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High Elve's are Blood Elves which means Void Elves are Blood Elves. skin color doesnt matter

So if Void Elves are Blood Elves, then how is it they are two playable "races" in different factions? The problem with reductive statements like yours is that they obviously don't fit the facts. Per design of VE and BE, skin and hair colors is literally all that matters, because that's the difference that makes them aesthetically distinct.

If Skin color "didn't matter", then how come Void Elves just didn't look like Alleria?

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And Alleria is unique, she became a Void Elf by devouring the heart of a dark naaru whereas other Void Elves are converted by being blasted by void energy. Dark Naaru are also, canonically, incredibly rare so that really isn't an option.

Yeah but to a point then we can argue that a "regular" Void Elf doesn't need the heart of a naaru to be created, and could be done so with lesser Void Entities. So would that alternate VE process lead to more Alleria looking VE's? Would that process be easier than replicating the failed transformation?

Alternative, Alleria looks like herself specifically because she ate a naaru, and the nature of their light/void cycle is what results in her distinct two forms. Entirely out of ,y ass, but plausible I think.

[Ielenia]

So your argument as to why they aren't nearly dead/nearly extinct is that if they wish Blizzard can retcon more into existence.

No. I'm saying they're not "nearly dead/nearly extinct" because they aren't.

Because they are high elves, at least in the truest sense of the term.

Again, you make it clear that your only intention is to muddle the conversation with word-play. Every time someone hears "blood elves" they know exactly what the other people are talking about: the Horde-aligned thalassian elves. And when someone hears "high elf" they know exactly what the other people are talking about, especially in this thread: the Alliance-aligned thalassian elves.

You, on the other hand, insist on muddling the terms because, without calling the groups for how they are presented in the game (high elf = Alliance; blood elf = Horde; thalassian elf = high elf + blood elf), many of your arguments have no leg to stand on.

Oh? Why?

Are Orcs not playable because the Dragonmaw aren't an option?

Are Humans not playable because Defias Brotherhood membership isn't a valid choice?

Are Trolls unplayable because there isn't an explicit Revantusk option?

Yeah, once again you make it clear your only intention is to muddle the conversation with word-play.

High Elves are playable as Blood Elves.

False. Blood elves are Horde-aligned thalassian elves, who have different policies and goals than the high elves, who are Alliance-aligned. We don't want blood elves, we want high elves.

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Dude you're comparing a simple stance change to two completely different skeleton rigs and implementing a new race over a simple customization addition. like really????

Except it's the exact same case. We want to play as something not currently available in the game, just like those who wanted upright orcs wanted to play as something not available in the game.

Like i said, that doesn't mean that every sub faction needs to be playable. You know how many sub factions exists in this damn game?????

Except we're not asking for "every sub-faction". We just want to play as the high elf faction currently present in the game that is part of the Alliance.

[Kathranis]

Alleria is a special case. Plus that gimmick is unique to worgen anyway.

It needn't be, though. Honestly, with the revamped character customization I think it'd be best if you could customize your human and worgen forms completely separately, and that's something they could conceivably carry over to other races (void elves) and classes (druids and demon hunters).

Personally I think making Entropic Embrace work more like Two Forms would be way more interesting. I honestly think the option to have Alleria style high elf customization with a forced void form in combat would be pretty cool. Especially if you could throw tattoos in.

Though this is still pretty unlikely, given that Allied Races are unlikely to receive any added customization at this time, unfortunately. Maybe further down the line...

[FlubberPuddy]

It needn't be, though. Honestly, with the revamped character customization I think it'd be best if you could customize your human and worgen forms completely separately, and that's something they could conceivably carry over to other races (void elves) and classes (druids and demon hunters).

Personally I think making Entropic Embrace work more like Two Forms would be way more interesting. I honestly think the option to have Alleria style high elf customization with a forced void form in combat would be pretty cool. Especially if you could throw tattoos in.

Though this is still pretty unlikely, given that Allied Races are unlikely to receive any added customization at this time, unfortunately. Maybe further down the line...

I'd be down for that, or even still keep EE as a proc as it appears to proc so often but yeah the things that make me upset about Void Elves is they don't like their leader for what appears to be an arbitrary reason and then on top of that the EE look is nowhere near as cool as Alleria's.

If Void Elves looked like Alleria's void form constantly I wouldn't have an issue there either cuz it's actually cool.

But VE got a shit looking proc and very limited skin options of the nastiest pasty blue ever.

[ravenmoon]

Also at @ravenmoon keyboardturner found some different colorations for Night Elves, blue eyes among them, along with silver and amber (and many others but they don't speculate on what they're not as confident about).

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...33678480719872

Thanks Pennem. In Legion we saw night elves gain 2 new eye colours. Tyrande and certain priests gained the blue colour Keyboard turner shows, I noticed it instantly in Legion, thinking have they gotten her eyes wrong? they were introducing something new.

Malfurion has green eyes too, a shift from the first silver, then gold eyes. BFA added Black eyes which was cool I thought.

I can only speculate w hat the new ones mean. I know that the silver is due to the intenral arcane power night elves as a result of their natural connection to the Well of Eternity. amber eyes, initially a sign of great destiny, were explained later could also result in an Elf having a natural aptitude to nature magic. Malfurion's new green eyes, seem ta better match to nature anyway, and I assume this is the effect of the emerald dream. The bluish tinged eyes on Tyrande and some of the Priests could mean the use of their arcane power? (I don't have an explanation for that, except I know priests of the moon use arcane spells, and perhaps this has affected their eye colour? but then in the pre-sundering era, they all used arcane spells and theye colour was still silver.). Perhaps it's just a variation of silver, like a blue-tinged silver. The colours ascociated with the arcane are purple (Nelf skin colour is purple hued due to the arcane well, whose waters are purple), silver and blue. The colour code was updatedin legion, and you can see arcane spells having that purple or silver with purple to blue edges (also shared in some of the druids arcane spells).


Maybe i'm over reading it, and it could just be hey, here are some new colour options that can fit the ball park of your race X. So you can have more variation and options.

[Xath]

The Horde didn't have an ongoing multi year campaign begging for a duplicate of a Horde race for one thing. My educated guess was that they knew they were going to give the Alliance some kind of high elf subrace in the subrace system for the post Legion expansion and they seeded Nightborne to justify why the Horde would have that. And then they decided they couldn't give the Alliance a duplicate of a Horde race so they made them a variant as well.



Which we got at the same time as the Alliance received a high elf model with a skin colour change. What's your point? You got a variant of a Horde race, we got a variant of an Alliance race. You will note Nightborne are NOT the same as Night Elves, just as Void Elves aren't the same as Blood Elves.

You didn't get a variant you got night elves without a palette swap. I get that you are a horde player but stop lying and just admit blizz favors the horde.

[FlubberPuddy]

You didn't get a variant you got night elves without a palette swap. I get that you are a horde player but stop lying and just admit blizz favors the horde.

Indeed, and in that case they went ahead and exchanged elves. If faction identity was SO IMPORTANT, a Night Elf would never be on Horde and a Blood Elf would never be on Alliance. But yet Horde get night elves without a palette swap and Alliance it's 'deemed so' that the blood elves needed a palette swap. Was the most hypocritical statement of the decade.

[Xath]

Thing is, you don't know that for an absolute fact. After all, they found new hairstyles for humans in last night's build, who is to say what is coming in later builds?

That, and we don't know for a fact that this dataminer is in fact correct. Wowhead after all datamined the blue eyed options as well, but only this person has decided that what was there previously was in fact an error. We have no idea about their own biases or whether they have interpreted the data incorrectly. After all, this is an alpha build, everything found does come with a caveat.

As for 'blue eyes bluring the faction lines', between Blood Elves and the Exiles they don't, as they are the same race. If Blizzard wants to keep blue eyes unique for the sake of Void Elves however that might be more understandable.

And of course, if they consider something as small as blue eyes needs to be kept unique for Void Elves to increase differentiation, then good luck with the expectation of high elf like skin tones.

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Blue eyes (for Blood Elves) should go to the Horde. And they still stand a very good chance of going to the Horde. And if they don't go to the Horde, what they also aren't going to are alliance high elves.

Why should they go to the horde they belong to void elves who are already on the alliance.

[Luck4]

You didn't get a variant you got night elves without a palette swap. I get that you are a horde player but stop lying and just admit blizz favors the horde.

Indeed, and in that case they went ahead and exchanged elves. If faction identity was SO IMPORTANT, a Night Elf would never be on Horde and a Blood Elf would never be on Alliance. But yet Horde get night elves without a palette swap and Alliance it's 'deemed so' that the blood elves needed a palette swap. Was the most hypocritical statement of the decade.

This is true, and the fact that Nightborne and Night Elves are not related, is nothing but a lie, their models are really close.